But I'm not being vitriolic so my points shouldn't be tuned out.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
But I'm not being vitriolic so my points shouldn't be tuned out.
I completely disagree with this. Nobody should acknowledge any of the loud and toxic nonsense that people spew on the internet. People need to act reasonable and fair when talking about the game. Discuss the positives and negatives in a fair and open manner.
It's only an inevitable reaction in the fact that the internet is filled entitled idiots that just speak nonsense about stuff they know nothing about.
So much this. I had a pretty long "wandering the desert" phase after my friends all dropped Brawl and Smash as a result only to pick up traditional fighters in Marvel 3 (closest thing of the new fighters to Smash's fast and freeform nature) and then come back because Project M happened along with all the Smash hype that started from last year's pre EVO situation.
I meant that I, personally, ignore the toxicity. I'm not advocating the toxicity at all. There's been some comments/rumors out there that seem to indicate the players that went to E3 were giving feedback directly to certain people involved with the game (or possibly just Nintendo in general) and I'm more hopeful that's the way the feedback gets heard.
Nah man, one person on smash boards said the game fucking sucks and that sakurai doesn't know what he's doing so all your valid criticisms about the game are automatically thrown into the trash!
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I dunno, if it was me I'd just use it as an excuse to ignore any advanced criticism in the first place. That's not remotely good game developer logic, but I still wouldn't personally be eager to appease a group of people calling me retarded or worse for not making my own game series the way they wanted.
I haven't really seen anybody get stupid about SSB4 yet here beyond that banned I'LL RAPE YOU IN SMASH guy from yesterday, but assuming that's the level of discourse competitive people on the Smash reddit/Smashboards are publicly having it's projecting a shitty image for the community as a whole. You, Anthony and a few of the other 'competitive' types on GAF seem level-headed about this enough while still voicing your concerns, wouldn't you prefer it everybody else do likewise to increase the chances Nintendo/Sakurai bothers to listen?
MrSaturn99
Member
I've long since stopped. The transformation it's undergone for the past ten years just depresses me.
I'm still kind of pissed they locked away all topics/posts from before 2007.
SliceSabre
Banned
An example.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Complete List of Prediction.
Confirmed Characters
Mario - 100%
Bowser - 99.16%
Link - 100%
Samus - 99.16%
Kirby - 99.16%
Fox - 99.16%
Pit - 97.48%
Donkey Kong - 98.32%
Pikachu - 100%
Villager - 0.84%
Mega Man - 58.83%
Wii Fit Trainer - 0%
Captain Olimar - 92.44%
Luigi - 100%
Princess Peach - 100%
Toon Link - 71.43%
Sonic - 89.08%
Marth - 95.80%
Rosalina - 4.21%
Zelda - 99.16%
King Dedede - 92.44%
Lucario - 36.14%
Little Mac - 60.51%
Diddy Kong - 93.28%
Zero Suit Samus - 84.04%
Sheik - 79.83%
Yoshi - 100%
Pokemon Trainer's Charizard - 46.22% & Pokemon Trainer - 89.08%
Pokemon X/Y - 29.42%
Ike - 47.90%
Mii - 20.17%
Palutena - 66.39%
Pac-Man - 57.15%
Confirmed Characters
Mario - 100%
Bowser - 99.16%
Link - 100%
Samus - 99.16%
Kirby - 99.16%
Fox - 99.16%
Pit - 97.48%
Donkey Kong - 98.32%
Pikachu - 100%
Villager - 0.84%
Mega Man - 58.83%
Wii Fit Trainer - 0%
Captain Olimar - 92.44%
Luigi - 100%
Princess Peach - 100%
Toon Link - 71.43%
Sonic - 89.08%
Marth - 95.80%
Rosalina - 4.21%
Zelda - 99.16%
King Dedede - 92.44%
Lucario - 36.14%
Little Mac - 60.51%
Diddy Kong - 93.28%
Zero Suit Samus - 84.04%
Sheik - 79.83%
Yoshi - 100%
Pokemon Trainer's Charizard - 46.22% & Pokemon Trainer - 89.08%
Pokemon X/Y - 29.42%
Ike - 47.90%
Mii - 20.17%
Palutena - 66.39%
Pac-Man - 57.15%
Hyperactivity
Banned
Yet you're fine with the same part of the community being that way when it was leads to the overall dismissal of the community as a whole
If you noticed that, you're probably slightly above the average buyer of Brawl.
The genera consensus typically seems to grade Smash mainly on characters, secondary on items, things like FSs, Break the targets and additional modes (still less big for most), etc.
And for the majority of those who have played Brawl and Melee, the majority of those buyers either lack an opinion or prefer Brawl
I don't think it's fair to say you know for absolutely certain that it wont be fine. The game is brand new. People gave Brawl the benefit of the doubt and hey, it burned a lot of hardcore melee fans. I believe that smash 4 deserves the same amount of patience that Brawl received. It's a different game with different exploits and potentially very different tactics. To say for sure that this game wont be fun to watch is just hubris on your part, and your assertion that the only reason the tourney was fun was because of items or the newness-factor belies the underlying potential for fun and excitement that we have yet to really discover. You're skeptical, I get it, and that's fine, but it still all just goes back to wanting a fast paced, frantic twitch game like melee and I truly don't believe any of that is vitally necessary for the game to be fun for competitive and casual players alike.
Revven made some reasonable and level headed posts. I'm not sure how his comments could be considered toxic?
Kind of weird seeing you write that considering you posted this on another page:
I'm liking a lot of the things I'm hearing but also not liking some of the things I hearing. Which I guess is expected because the universe isn't always gumdrops and sunshine? Its hard to garner how much of an actual issue the landing lag is sans playing it 
I hope people aren't taking issue with you specifically, I think you've been very articulate and reasonable in your concerns. From what I've been reading there are a lot of valid and constructive criticisms out there. My, and I assume others, point of contention is the degree of absolute certainty in how things will "play out" combined with word choice and tone IS off-putting. If you took some of the posts I've seen wholesale and put them in front of any game designer with self respect they would laugh in your face. Thankfully, most of those at the invitational should be able to rely concerns in a respectful manner that might actually produce results.
I hope people aren't taking issue with you specifically, I think you've been very articulate and reasonable in your concerns. From what I've been reading there are a lot of valid and constructive criticisms out there. My, and I assume others, point of contention is the degree of absolute certainty in how things will "play out" combined with word choice and tone IS off-putting. If you took some of the posts I've seen wholesale and put them in front of any game designer with self respect they would laugh in your face. Thankfully, most of those at the invitational should be able to rely concerns in a respectful manner that might actually produce results.
I'm not fine with it, I'm just one person -- I can't change an entire community's behavior. It takes more than one person to make a shift like that in toxicity and behavior that's been dormant for years. Hating on the hate doesn't make it go away, it makes it worse, IMO.
I really would love it if more people took steps to be more like prog and D1 or anyone else, really.
Compared to what melee or project m can be like, no not really.
I was enjoying it just because we finally got to see smash 4 in the hands of competitive players and the event was a big deal to me in terms of what it means for competitive smash, but kirby just looked awful in this game, couldn't get a good combo off all game.
Two cents on the Brawl thing: My sisters and I all preferred Melee and none of us ever played competitively. We invested so many hours into that game. That didn't really happen with Brawl. Part of it with me was school and work making me not home as often. But for them, they said they just preferred Melee. They thought Brawl was a good game, but it didn't drag them in like Melee did.
Ah I see. My bad. I just can't stand the toxicity. Been hearing it since Brawl.
Yeah I hope Nintendo takes the E3 feedback seriously. The changes don't bother me at all, but I know there's a good amount of the community that understands how certain changes can improve the game overall.
ErrorMacro
Member
The problem is, the toxic comments only hurt the acceptance of the valid criticisms. If you have to swim on a sea of hate to find one good point on how to improve something, chances are that you're not going to want to swim on that sea at all!
By the way, this is not a criticism directed at you - I agree with all the stuff you pointed, and I think you are very reasonable with your criticism. It's unfortunate that you seem to be in the minority in this case!
Was very fun. Even had my first pick-up monster hunter session. I've never played 3DS with total strangers before. Was a cool experience.
One of those stickers is now on the back of my 3DS (on the clear case).
Yeah, this game definitely gets points for presentation, for sure! Flashiest looking/sounding one so far. Can't wait to see the music selection and what they can fit on the 25 gig+ disc. Wonder if all the trailers will be loaded on there.
Hours vs years, etc....
Everything about the game visual wise looks fucking fantastic so far, I just really want the gameplay to have some depth and longevity to it.
As much as I love P:M I'd rather not be playing it for another however many years when there could be a better alternative.
SliceSabre
Banned
Also streams and videos do not do this game justice. I was amazed at how beautiful and smooth everything looked in person.
SkullHydra
Member
I'm glad we're having a pretty respectable back and forth about the game here. It's so much nicer that the 'debates' happening elsewhere on the internet. I want to thank you guys for at least keeping the badmouthing and such to a minimum. That's one of the reasons I enjoy GAF so much.
I am super jealous of all you people getting to play Sm4sh already. I would have to drive for many hours into a different state just to reach a Best Buy who's participating. >_>
I need more impressions!
I am super jealous of all you people getting to play Sm4sh already. I would have to drive for many hours into a different state just to reach a Best Buy who's participating. >_>
I need more impressions!
I drove an hour and 15 minutes into another state!
2 hours in line, played monster hunter, smash 3ds, and then smash 4. totally worth it.SkullHydra
Member
I drove an hour and 15 minutes into another state!
I don't think you get it, lol. There's no participating Best Buy in my state (Montana), or in any state surrounding it. It would take me over 10 hours of driving to get to one. =P
PadWarrior
Member
I want impressions from using the wii pro controller and mario and mega man impressions.
Okay now that I'm back home some more impressions. Didn't care to experiment with advance techs because I was interested in new characters and getting a feel for them at a basic level. Also hard to do the tech stuff with items every fucking where. Which I guess in the demo were higher in rate for showcasing?
Basically, items were everywhere and I had a hard time keeping track of everything unlike in any of the previous installments. I think some of the stages may be too detailed surprisingly. I had trouble even during the invitational at times. There would be times I would get in a 2 on 2 break off and out of no where there is a Pokemon or assist to wreck everything. Couldn't tell who was an assist a Pokemon a character a stage hazard it was crazy.
A decent Sonic was in my match with two little macs. I was Mega Man, couldn't KO effectively with anything but Flame Blast but could handle Little Mac at a basic level with some grabs and dodges, Mega Buster charged to me was complete shit and would barely kill characters, almost like a tease smash, there were many times I thought I (or someone I attacked) was a goner from attacks only to recover anyway and escape the face of death. I felt Mega Man was actually handled better in Super Smash Flash with his move set up. Hard Knuckle was his F Smash and Gravity Hold was D air, still a Meteor Smash. Mega Buster was regulated to the neutral special as it should've been. The fact that you can not store or charge it safely compared to other charges should mean more KO potential.
Sonic to me had some KO moves in His forward A, and I think down smash but looks to be nothing but Little Mac food as I thought. Got the shit kicked out of him the entire match despite decent attempts to set up combos on Mac. As in his moves still had lower priority or the Macs just tanked them. As much as I wanted to mess with Sonic too, I was having so much damn trouble with Rock I just took whatever KOs I could get, still ended up in second, because one of the Macs just kept beating the shit out of the determined Sonic player. I was too defensive I guess, but that seemed like the best way to play really.
I felt like when in air I had significantly poorer control over the characters I tried and everyone else did as well. So much risk on A air moves, I was almost scared to jump.
Villager seems like their moves were not mapped out well. Very awkward, almost like Sakurai was like "Let's just give villager weed pull for the down tilt and call it a day." Hard to tell what BASIC bread and butter combos would work with them that aren't an insane risk. To me it was too easy to use the Lloyd Rocket express and not the missile, actually costed me one of my matches. When I found out the bowling ball drop was the side Smash I was like "fuck!" But using it as intended, I did not see any pay off, even with a fully charged one, the bowling ball did not KO Kirby who was around maybe 60% at that point and on the end of the stage.
To me it was very much closer to Brawl than melee overall. Not extremely impressed really. Will try Saturday for more well rounded impressions.
Basically, items were everywhere and I had a hard time keeping track of everything unlike in any of the previous installments. I think some of the stages may be too detailed surprisingly. I had trouble even during the invitational at times. There would be times I would get in a 2 on 2 break off and out of no where there is a Pokemon or assist to wreck everything. Couldn't tell who was an assist a Pokemon a character a stage hazard it was crazy.
A decent Sonic was in my match with two little macs. I was Mega Man, couldn't KO effectively with anything but Flame Blast but could handle Little Mac at a basic level with some grabs and dodges, Mega Buster charged to me was complete shit and would barely kill characters, almost like a tease smash, there were many times I thought I (or someone I attacked) was a goner from attacks only to recover anyway and escape the face of death. I felt Mega Man was actually handled better in Super Smash Flash with his move set up. Hard Knuckle was his F Smash and Gravity Hold was D air, still a Meteor Smash. Mega Buster was regulated to the neutral special as it should've been. The fact that you can not store or charge it safely compared to other charges should mean more KO potential.
Sonic to me had some KO moves in His forward A, and I think down smash but looks to be nothing but Little Mac food as I thought. Got the shit kicked out of him the entire match despite decent attempts to set up combos on Mac. As in his moves still had lower priority or the Macs just tanked them. As much as I wanted to mess with Sonic too, I was having so much damn trouble with Rock I just took whatever KOs I could get, still ended up in second, because one of the Macs just kept beating the shit out of the determined Sonic player. I was too defensive I guess, but that seemed like the best way to play really.
I felt like when in air I had significantly poorer control over the characters I tried and everyone else did as well. So much risk on A air moves, I was almost scared to jump.
Villager seems like their moves were not mapped out well. Very awkward, almost like Sakurai was like "Let's just give villager weed pull for the down tilt and call it a day." Hard to tell what BASIC bread and butter combos would work with them that aren't an insane risk. To me it was too easy to use the Lloyd Rocket express and not the missile, actually costed me one of my matches. When I found out the bowling ball drop was the side Smash I was like "fuck!" But using it as intended, I did not see any pay off, even with a fully charged one, the bowling ball did not KO Kirby who was around maybe 60% at that point and on the end of the stage.
To me it was very much closer to Brawl than melee overall. Not extremely impressed really. Will try Saturday for more well rounded impressions.
Just got in from Smash-Fest, preordered my 3DS copy and got one of the black pins!
Got some hands on time with Pit and won a game with Little Mac! He's definitely gonna be a character I'm gonna put some serious time into. His victory screen with Doc is SO GOOD.
I absolutely enjoyed what I played. I love Melee to death but I think this Smash is going to shape up to be my favorite so far once the final release hits. The speed is enough to not feel sluggish like Brawl. Yeah there's no L-cancelling, wavedashing, etc, but tbh I think I will be able to play and enjoy this iteration of Smash without them. I feel like an easier and more fluid dashdance would really benefit the game though.
I know there's a lot of debate going on right now but I am feeling cautiously optimistic after what I played at Smashfest and I can't wait to get my hands on the game again.
Got some hands on time with Pit and won a game with Little Mac! He's definitely gonna be a character I'm gonna put some serious time into. His victory screen with Doc is SO GOOD.
I absolutely enjoyed what I played. I love Melee to death but I think this Smash is going to shape up to be my favorite so far once the final release hits. The speed is enough to not feel sluggish like Brawl. Yeah there's no L-cancelling, wavedashing, etc, but tbh I think I will be able to play and enjoy this iteration of Smash without them. I feel like an easier and more fluid dashdance would really benefit the game though.
I know there's a lot of debate going on right now but I am feeling cautiously optimistic after what I played at Smashfest and I can't wait to get my hands on the game again.
I think that's a fair perspective, but the notion that people don't know how certain mechanics will play out is silly. Game designers do this often and people that have played Smash 64, melee, brawl and PM. Literally 10,000 hours of smash have a very good idea of where stuff will lead.
If there is secret intentionational tech skill that we don't know about that's another thing, but it'd be nice if Nintendo would mention it. Right now approach options seem limited and we know how that plays out and those of us that are unhappy will stay unhappy.
I played it and I know I will enjoy it for about a month or two, I enjoyed brawl for roughly two weeks. I want the next Smash to be a serious competitive game, what I played I know won't be. Custom move sets might help me enjoy the DS one, but I'm ready to move on from Melee.
BassForever
Member
Smash Bros 4 is a lot of fun, don't understand the hate I'm seeing at all, I may not be top tier competitive smasher like some of the melee diehards but the game just played really damn well. It was smooth, the graphics were great, and I honestly had a ton of fun. Two Little Macs on a completely flat stage like Boxing ring or Coliseum is brutal though, my poor Greninja couldn't kill anyone before a Little Mac came flying in and stole it.
All in all if you're not a die hard competitive Melee person you're probably going to love this. If you are then I guess continue to drink the haterade because I doubt anything I say will change your opinions lol
All in all if you're not a die hard competitive Melee person you're probably going to love this. If you are then I guess continue to drink the haterade because I doubt anything I say will change your opinions lol
MasterCheeze
Member
The Best Buy in Billings had it. I drove all the way from Sidney to play it.
PadWarrior
Member
Did you use the pro controller?
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Holy fuck the Best Buy location I went to had way too many people; was planning on lining back up, but damn did that line not shrink. Was fun though; definitely need the Gamecube controller through. Maybe the 3Ds controls would help me for the Wii U version though.
Yeah, the line was actually LONGER when I left than when I got there. I assume if you were like first 20+ in line, going to the back might not be terrible at some locations, but at mine, no way.
BassForever
Member
Yeah I did, as a whole I had no problems outside of the shoulder buttons, felt really weird trying to guard with the triggers but by the end of my 2 minute match I was getting used to it. Had I gotten my promised second match (they cut everyone down to one match due to the massive turn out) I probably would have been good with it. I trained myself to be good with the Classic Controller Pro before the GC adapater was confirmed and that awkwardness I felt the first time I used that for Smash was how I felt today playing with the Pro Controller, but I imagine after 3-5 matches I'd be comfortable with it.
THIS, haha.
Yeah I've played Mega Man twice and just felt like he was too weak and didn't play enough like how I would have expected him to play.
I think his down Smash and up Smash are good kill moves and his back air is satisfying, but the rest of his moves seemed to have wonky hit boxes or just really weak.
I planned to main Rosalina, little Mac, Ganon and Mega Man, but after this ill probably drop Mega Man. If they don't announce Ganon I'll be pissed! Haha
PadWarrior
Member
Nice! Good to hear since I own 4 of them lol.
Yeah, I agree, not bad. I used right bumper to tether w/ link and it did a kick or something. It was weird.
SliceSabre
Banned
I am a man of my word and I will continue to be on #TeamPichu until the day I die.
It's hopefully just some balancing wonkieness. He has a wide variety of moves, so they probably tweaked his numbers a bit too low. Hopefully they'll fix it.
I was fortunate enough to play 14 matches at my local Best Buy tonight.
The game certainly feels similar to Brawl, but the big thing, for me, was the lag in the air. Every time I tried a neutral A attack or down A attack and landed on the ground or a platform, my character felt "stuck" for a few milliseconds before I was able to do anything else.
Also, air combat just feels....off. It doesn't feel that smooth at all and is rather jerky.
Game looked great in HD though, and I really do love the stages (aside from Wiley Castle).
The game certainly feels similar to Brawl, but the big thing, for me, was the lag in the air. Every time I tried a neutral A attack or down A attack and landed on the ground or a platform, my character felt "stuck" for a few milliseconds before I was able to do anything else.
Also, air combat just feels....off. It doesn't feel that smooth at all and is rather jerky.
Game looked great in HD though, and I really do love the stages (aside from Wiley Castle).