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[Crossing Eden]

You do realize that this whole response has nothing to do with what I was responding to, right?

I'm calling out a post trying to compare an established character being changed to one that already changed with each iteration.

But to respond to your post: I do have a problem with there not being a female lead considered since this time period is a great time to bring one in.

They're not obligated but that doesn't mean they shouldn't.

That's the thing is that in every AC they create an established character. Same thing applies to this game. Also, men were much more prevalent during the French Revolution. Not really a female centric time period. Just like in AC3. Yes there were important women during that time. But there were also men there. More men doing more things. Like I said, plenty of alternatives out there if playing as a female is so important. AC:Liberation even has an HD re-release.

 

[Wiktor]

They're not obligated but that doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Doesn't mean they should either though.

 

[CLEEK]

I'm calling out a post trying to compare an established character being changed to one that already changed with each iteration.

That wasn't my point, and has nothing to do with whether that character is established or not. It's the fact that AAA games require thousands of man hours to produce. With a sizeable percentage of this work focused just on the character the player controls, especially its interactions in the story and cut-scenes.

The flippant remark that changing the main character is a couple of days tops to implement is idiotic.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The point is they've already designed the game around a male protagonist.

You know, not to get too deep in this mud hole again and regardless of the context of this situation, but people really need to stop using this excuse.

It implies being male is as important as being able to jump or crouch.

 

[Parfait]

That's the thing is that in every AC they create an established character. Same thing applies to this game. Also, men were much more prevalent during the French Revolution. Not really a female centric time period. Just like in AC3.

???????????

 

[CLEEK]

You know, not to get too deep in this mud hole again and regardless of the context of this situation, but people really need to stop using this excuse.

It implies being male is as important as being able to jump or crouch.

Not, it just refers to the actual effort required to have multiple characters.

Unless the game was designed from the ground up to allow this - and AC5 wasn't - then it's not as simple as re-skinning the main character.

Making the point that they should have designed AC5 to allow for multiple characters is another argument entirely, and one you can apply your statement to. My posts have just be in regards to the comments made by other devs around the work effort involved to change a AAA game late on in its development.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Isn't it professional courtesy not to comment on stuff like this since you don't know a team's operating budget? In any case, if it's really trivial, I don't see why all games don't include female alts. Yet, they don't, which suggests this might actually not be so trivial. PEACE.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Not, it just refers to the actual effort required to have multiple characters.

Unless the game was designed from the ground up to allow this - and AC5 wasn't - then it's not as simple as re-skinning the main character.

Okay, I thought you meant "designed".

 

[Ether_Snake]

???????????

So you play as a character who gets killed mid-revolution after stabbing Marat with a kitchen knife?

It would be actually highly diminutive to pretend that she was "an assassin of the Assassin order!", like pyramid builders were aliens. She was a poor girl who got the guts to walk into Marat's home pretending she was there to deliver a letter with names of traitors, stabbed him in his bath with a kitchen knife, not a free-running assassin who would climb the walls of Notre-Dame to jump in hay stacks.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You know, not to get too deep in this mud hole again and regardless of the context of this situation, but people really need to stop using this excuse.

It implies being male is as important as being able to jump or crouch.

Making a male lead with a set story, personality, and quirks is as important as jumping and crouching. The narrative in this series is important, that's a fact. So having a good male character in a game where it was decided early on that the main character would be male IS as important as making being able to move correctly. It all goes hand in hand.

 

[Parfait]

So you play as a character who gets killed mid-revolution after stabbing Marat with a kitchen knife?

It would be actually highly diminutive to pretend that she was "an assassin of the Assassin order!", like pyramid builders were aliens. She was a poor girl who got the guts to walk into Marat's home pretending she was there to deliver a letter with names of traitors, stabbed him in his bath with a kitchen knife, and walked out unnoticed, not a free-running assassin who would climb the walls of Notre-Dame to jump in hay stacks.

Because Assassin's Creed is realistic

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Making a male lead with a set story, personality, and quirks is as important as jumping and crouching. The narrative in this series is important, that's a fact. So having a good male character in a game where it was decided early on that the main character would be male IS as important as making being able to move correctly. It all goes hand in hand.

.... aaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm out.

 

[Wazzy]

That's the thing is that in every AC they create an established character. Same thing applies to this game. Also, men were much more prevalent during the French Revolution. Not really a female centric time period. Just like in AC3.

They create a new character each game. It doesn't matter if they become established because the entire point is that new game means new protagonist. Which gives room for a female lead.

And I wasn't saying that women were more prevelant. It's that it was a time period where women had a bigger role thus it would be a good time to introduce a female lead.

That wasn't my point, and has nothing to do with whether that character is established or not. It's the fact that AAA games require thousands of man hours to produce. With a sizeable percentage of this work focused just on the character the player controls, especially its interactions in the story and cut-scenes.

The flippant remark that changing the main character is a couple of days tops to implement is idiotic.

But was that really their point? I mean your example is bad no matter what because you're still asking for an established character to be changed compared to one that isn't but looking at what they said, they're calling out Ubisofts excuse for no female character.

 

[Crossing Eden]

They create a new character each game. It doesn't matter if they become established because the entire point is that new game means new protagonist. Which gives room for a female lead.

And I wasn't saying that women were more prevelant. It's that it was a time period where women had a bigger role thus it would be a good time to introduce a female lead.

1.They've already done a female lead. And they most likely will again when the time is right and the time period calls for it.
2.This is not an accurate time period for a female lead when the majority of the major players were male.
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/frenchrev/terms.html

 

[CLEEK]

But was that really their point? I mean your example is bad no matter what because you're still asking for an established character to be changed compared to one that isn't but looking at what they said, they're calling out Ubisofts excuse for no female character.

Have you even read the tweet in question? Or my posts? It seems like you haven't, so I'll break it down.

Ubi made the comment that including a woman main character would 'double the work'.

ND artists tweets that this isn't true and would only take 1-2 day to implement.

I point out that replacing the main character in a major, multimillion dollar AAA games that's already years into development would take a little bit more effort than 1-2 days work.

In a story led game, you have voice acting, script branching, cut scene rendering etc etc to consider. In a game with a silent protagonist like Demon's Souls, Skyrim and so on, character customisation is simple and doesn't impact the wider game. If a story led game features gender options, like Mass Effect, then it has be be designed that way from the start. It wouldn't be 'double the work' but the effort would be considerable.

 

[Crossing Eden]

.... aaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm out.

There's nothing wrong with that notion at all. The same thing applies to any character in any game. Period.

 

[Parfait]

Can you even be a girl in Sunset Overdrive I'm sure the story in that game requires the main char to be a dude I guess.

This entire debacle moved it from Day 1 purchase to Steam Sale for me and if the next Female Lead AC isn't an original Console/PC game then I'm just not going to bother.

I don't agree it would take 1-2 days work, but I wouldn't have minded an extra month. Did everyone forget it's not even the main character, but just your avatar when you join in co-op? It shouldn't be a huge deal at all to let you have the pick of gender.

 

[Wazzy]

1.They've already done a female lead. And they most likely will again when the time is right and the time period calls for it.
2.This is not an accurate time period for a female lead when the majority of the major players were male.
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/frenchrev/terms.html

1. They've done a female lead on a portable system, not a mainline title.

2. Uh women still had a big role in the French Revolution.

Have you even read the tweet in question? Or my posts? It seems like you haven't, so I'll break it down.

Ubi made the comment that including a woman main character would 'double the work'.

ND artists tweets that this isn't true and would only take 1-2 day to implement.

I point out that replacing the main character in a major, multimillion dollar AAA games that's already years into development would take a little bit more effort than 1-2 days work.

You're talking about replacing. No one there said to replace the male character.

What they asked is for a playable female lead to also be included and that the assets to include one being too difficult are silly.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Can you even be a girl in Sunset Overdrive I'm sure the story in that game requires the main char to be a dude I guess.

This entire debacle moved it from Day 1 purchase to Steam Sale for me and if the next Female Lead AC isn't an original Console/PC game then I'm just not going to bother.

I don't agree it would take 1-2 days work, but I wouldn't have minded an extra month. Did everyone forget it's not even the main character, but just your avatar when you join in co-op? It shouldn't be a huge deal at all to let you have the pick of gender.

1.Yes you can be a girl in Sunset Overdrive but that game has a blank slate main character and was made with that in mind.
2.It's only a debacle to those who don't have any idea how game development or animation works and in the worst cases, how the series narrative works.
3.Oh an extra month? Yea really easy? And here's where the developer quote from Reddit has a perfect reply to this.

"Because it's a console title that has a firm ship date (release date for AC5 is October 28th), you want to be submitted at least 8 weeks in advance to first party approvals (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have to approve the code you want to put on their systems before they allow you to go to manufacturing - the RTM, or Release to Manufacturer is required before you can put your disk in a box). Once you have your approval, you have a scheduled and contracted run at one of the THREE approved manufacturers allowed to take your production run within the U.S. Miss your RTM date and too fucking bad - EA or Activision or Majesco or whoever has the time scheduled immediately after yours and they're not in a mood to negotiate with you for Q3/4 sales numbers. Once you DO get through your manufacture period, you have to get the units on the shelves at Target, BestBuy, Fry's, GameStop and anyone else you've contracted shelf space with. That 25-50 days isn't something you can just throw money and people at by the way. Character pipelines don't work that way. You can't start rescripting or animating new cut-scenes before you have the new rigged model. You can't rig the model till have the model. You can't build the model till have the concept art. You can't record the VO for the cut scenes and in-game play till have the script written. You have to then find the actress who will record the voice, and another actress to record the mocap. All of this takes time. Time from someone already working late into the day/night and possibly on weekends. Because they're working on OTHER parts of the game"
Come on now.

 

[CLEEK]

You're talking about replacing. No one there said to replace the male character.

What they asked is for a playable female lead to also be included and that the assets to include one being too difficult are silly.

So you didn't read the tweet. Fine.

There was in article in Polygon which said:

Assassin's Creed Unity's four-player co-op will not offer female assassins due to the pressures of production work, Ubisoft creative director Alex Amancio told Polygon during a recent interview.

Amancio said that though female assassins were planned for the game, Ubisoft ran into "the reality of production."

"It's double the animations, it's double the voices, all that stuff and double the visual assets," Amancio said. "Especially because we have customizable assassins. It was really a lot of extra production work."

The ND artist replied to the Polygon tweet that linked to this article saying "Nah-uh, it only takes a day or two".

 

[Quadraphonic]

Having the ability to choose the gender of an assassin would totally fuck with the entire AC Initiates timeline.

 

[Parfait]

1.Yes you can be a girl in Sunset Overdrive but that game has a blank slate main character and was made with that in mind.
2.It's only a debacle to those who don't have any idea how game development or animation works and in the worst cases, how the series narrative works.
3.Oh an extra month? Yea really easy? And here's where the developer quote from Reddit has a perfect reply to this.

"Because it's a console title that has a firm ship date (release date for AC5 is October 28th), you want to be submitted at least 8 weeks in advance to first party approvals (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have to approve the code you want to put on their systems before they allow you to go to manufacturing - the RTM, or Release to Manufacturer is required before you can put your disk in a box). Once you have your approval, you have a scheduled and contracted run at one of the THREE approved manufacturers allowed to take your production run within the U.S. Miss your RTM date and too fucking bad - EA or Activision or Majesco or whoever has the time scheduled immediately after yours and they're not in a mood to negotiate with you for Q3/4 sales numbers. Once you DO get through your manufacture period, you have to get the units on the shelves at Target, BestBuy, Fry's, GameStop and anyone else you've contracted shelf space with. That 25-50 days isn't something you can just throw money and people at by the way. Character pipelines don't work that way. You can't start rescripting or animating new cut-scenes before you have the new rigged model. You can't rig the model till have the model. You can't build the model till have the concept art. You can't record the VO for the cut scenes and in-game play till have the script written. You have to then find the actress who will record the voice, and another actress to record the mocap. All of this takes time. Time from someone already working late into the day/night and possibly on weekends. Because they're working on OTHER parts of the game"
Come on now.

1: Ok Sunset Overdrive got a bit more appealing
2: The Debacle is 'I want to play a Female HD Assassin already and I can't, again, so I'm not spending big bux for something that only has some of what I want.'
3: Interesting trivia to know, thanks. Good to know about that process, even though I guess that delays aren't a thing and haven't happened before for reasons known and unknown. I guess I could have made it more clear that it was just a guesstimate since I didn't know much of the process involving delays and the like. Also, again, wasn't the female model just for coop players? Didn't know they showed up and talked in cutscenes too, tho not much gameplay has been shown on that front.

What's the DLC process, and with that what's Ubi's silence on not even maybe giving a tease on just adding it in as DLC or a patch after the game comes out?

 

[Shrike_Priest]

1.They've already done a female lead. And they most likely will again when the time is right and the time period calls for it.
2.This is not an accurate time period for a female lead when the majority of the major players were male.
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/frenchrev/terms.html

But a wealthy black merchant assassin master seems reasonable for 18th century US? Or George Washington and crew having no problem hanging out with a totally buff Mohawk?

Sure the main players in the french revolution were male, but you're not playing those characters, right? You're playing a fictional character. The cool thing about fiction is that you do get to change stuff around. For instance, say that the pope really was just after some scifi doomsday device.

Assassin's Creed still works via the animus-concept, right? So why not have the female character be the work of contemporary people in the AC-universe "hacking the memories" if you're so concerned for historical accuracy? There are many ways to explain it story wise if there's actually any intention of pulling it off.

It's a poor excuse. Where was the historical accuracy in the ADAM AND EVE-storyline from the first cycle?

 

[Crossing Eden]

1: Ok Sunset Overdrive got a bit more appealing
2: The Debacle is 'I want to play a Female HD Assassin already and I can't, again, so I'm not spending big bux for something that only has some of what I want.'
3: Interesting trivia to know, thanks. Good to know about that process, even though I guess that delays aren't a thing and haven't happened before for reasons known and unknown. I guess I could have made it more clear that it was just a guesstimate since I didn't know much of the process involving delays and the like. Also, again, wasn't the female model just for coop players? Didn't know they showed up and talked in cutscenes too, tho not much gameplay has been shown on that front.

What's the DLC process, and with that what's Ubi's silence on not even maybe giving a tease on just adding it in as DLC or a patch after the game comes out?

2.You have had the option to play as an HD female assassin for a year.
3.You can't expect every studio to delay a game for an arbitrary addition to the game. A delay takes at the very least a month of negotiation and planning. And you ALWAYS play as Arno anyways, so you wouldn't know that you were playing as a female in the first place.

 

[Crossing Eden]

But a wealthy black merchant assassin master seems reasonable for 18th century US? Or George Washington and crew having no problem hanging out with a totally buff Mohawk?

Sure the main players in the french revolution were male, but you're not playing those characters, right? You're playing a fictional character. The cool thing about fiction is that you do get to change stuff around. For instance, say that the pope really was just after some scifi doomsday device.

Assassin's Creed still works via the animus-concept, right? So why not have the female character be the work of contemporary people in the AC-universe "hacking the memories" if you're so concerned for historical accuracy? There are many ways to explain it story wise if there's actually any intention of pulling it off.

It's a poor excuse. Where was the historical accuracy in the ADAM AND EVE-storyline from the first cycle?

You're asking them to completely change the game to accommodate a female lead?

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I'll just say that I'm happy they got called out in their BS excuse. It's cute to give girly animations to girls, but that's not a necessity.

By girly animations I mean a more womanly walk and stuff, not overly girly and stereotypical.

 

[Parfait]

Yo its late all I gotta say is

I just want more female leads in games that aren't Tomb Raider where if you miss a QTE she gets basically tortured to death by a lose fern while moaning ridiculously. I shouldn't even have to create a character, they should just be there. I wish OOBI would have just said they didn't want to do a female main character for this game, instead of darting around the issue with some poor excuses.

It's a lot of extra work, I actually do understand that. I'd even have been willing to wait a few more months if they wanted to actually do it, and spend the money on it.

Show me some AAA games with female leads. They don't have to be strong unfeeling murderfests, they just have to be people and I'd be happy. I was never more bored of this E3 when i kept seeing white male dude after white male dude with a gun.

At least we have squids

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Assassin's Creed still works via the animus-concept, right? So why not have the female character be the work of contemporary people in the AC-universe "hacking the memories" if you're so concerned for historical accuracy? There are many ways to explain it story wise if there's actually any intention of pulling it off.

Eh, writing, or at least attempts in good writing, doesn't work that way. What you suggested might make a logical, in-universe sense but it doesn't make a logical character arc. It would be altering something for the sake of altering, and that's the worst thing that could happen in a narrative.

 

[Wiktor]

I wish OOBI would have just said they didn't want to do a female main character for this game, instead of darting around the issue with some poor excuses.

They propably should. Especially since having female lead isn't really in any way batter than having a male one.

That said, you have to mind the context. Ubi guys weren't asked why the lead character isn't female, to which they would propably answer without much controversy. They were asked why there's none in co-op, where it really would seem like a waste of resources to create a female assassin considering how the game co-op works, especially when it;slikely that the whole point of picking this type of co-op was becuase creating it took little resources compared to other types of multiplayer

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

1.They've already done a female lead. And they most likely will again when the time is right and the time period calls for it.
2.This is not an accurate time period for a female lead when the majority of the major players were male.
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/frenchrev/terms.html

The french revolution is a perfect time period for a female lead, in fact I bet that there will be plenty of female characters on the revolutionists side in the game. They made the precise choice of not including a female lead, or they didn't care, but they could have done it with 0 problems: the classic response to this is "but in terms of story a man would be more realistic bla bla bla", no one cares, they can write a story that could adapt to both a male and a female lead, it can be done, it's not done for economic purposes but it can be done, and I guess that more sales would result from that choice because half of the gamer population is female.

 

[Wiktor]

I guess that more sales would result from that choice because half of the gamer population is female.

I would hope that female gamers aren't so closed minded that they can't enjoy a game where they play as a man.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The french revolution is a perfect time period for a female lead, in fact I bet that there will be plenty of female characters on the revolutionists side in the game. They made the precise choice of not including a female lead, or they didn't care, but they could have done it with 0 problems: the classic response to this is "but in terms of story a man would be more realistic bla bla bla", no one cares, they can write a story that could adapt to both a male and a female lead, it can be done, it's not done for economic purposes but it can be done, and I guess that more sales would result from that choice because half of the gamer population is female.

THEY care. And this isn't a story where you play as a non-descript character with a blank personality. It NEVER has been. And they shouldn't change that to accommodate to a minority. When btw, half the series fanbase isn't women. Half the gamer population being women doesn't mean that half the main fanbase for every triple A franchise is a woman.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

I would hope that female gamers aren't so closed minded that they can't enjoy a game where they play as a man.

If female gamers were like this I think there wouldn't be any left, at least in AAA space, since almost every lead is male, and always the same kind of male. It's not about being closed minded, but about having the choice to impersonate a character in which you could immerse yourself more, that's it. Also, I'm not saying that women don't buy games with male leads: I'm saying that they would buy more of those games if they offered a choice and were gender neutral, and not designed with the male gaze in mind.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

THEY care. And this isn't a story where you play as a non-descript character with a blank personality. It NEVER has been. And they shouldn't change that to accommodate to a minority. When btw, half the series fanbase isn't women. Half the gamer population being women doesn't mean that half the main fanbase for every triple A franchise is a woman.

The reason for that is that AAA franchises are almost only done for men: if they were done in a more gender-neutral way, they would enjoy a much larger fanbase.

 

[Crossing Eden]

If female gamers were like this I think there wouldn't be any left, at least in AAA space, since almost every lead is male, and always the same kind of male. It's not about being closed minded, but about having the choice to impersonate a character in which you could immerse yourself more, that's it. Also, I'm not saying that women don't buy games with male leads: I'm saying that they would buy more of those games if they offered a choice and were gender neutral, and not designed with the male gaze in mind.

Then the problem lies with the female gamers expecting the AC series to suddenly become gender neutral. Considering the sheer amount of effort Ubi is putting into this game it's very unfair to act so self entitled. This is not a gender-neutral series. It's a series with a set narrative and a diverse set of main characters. You're basically saying
"Hey Ubi employees I know that you're building this entire game from the ground up, and making more than 8k animations for the main character alone, and trying to tell a plot, and trying to include seamless multiplayer, and also working with all this new tech like 1:1 scale environments and unprecedented amounts of npcs in the crowds, not to mention a new side quest system where it's also seamless and up to the player about whether or not they want to intervene, and also a new innovative mission structure where the mission can continue even if you fail the initial objective because you designed a world that's an accurate portrayal of a bloody revolution where unpredictable things can happen, and I know you have to polish all these aspects, but you REALLY should've either changed the main character that you spent months writing about to a female, or prioritized a female avatar that I wouldn't even know that i'm playing as. Shame on you Ubi"

 

[Wazzy]

So you didn't read the tweet. Fine.

There was in article in Polygon which said:



The ND artist replied to the Polygon tweet that linked to this article saying "Nah-uh, it only takes a day or two".

And once again where does it say in there that they asked for the male character to be replaced? All they said is it's not a huge effort to include a female lead like they're saying it is.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

Then the problem lies with the female gamers expecting the AC series to suddenly become gender neutral. Considering the sheer amount of effort Ubi is putting into this game it's very unfair to act so self entitled.

Again, no one is expecting that per se. The point simply is that Ubisoft could have done that, and they didn't, even if the time period offered more choices than others in that regard. They are not obliged to not put only male leads in the game, like developers are not obliged to not make games that suck, or are not obliged to not represent women with token attributes that exist only for men's enjoyment, but they should: to create better, more inclusive, more interesting games, they should. If Ubisoft simply responded "we assumed a male lead because it's a AAA game, and we didn't think about gender-neutrality", that would have been an honest answer, an answer that showed the horrid state of AAA games but it's not news; but they tried to cover their asses with circumstantial arguments that have no real weight.

 

[tensuke]

I would hope that female gamers aren't so closed minded that they can't enjoy a game where they play as a man.

On this very forum you'll see people not playing a game because the lead is white, or the lead is black, or the lead is a woman, or the lead is a man, etc.

Sadly the want for more or less representation clouds some people's judgment and ability to enjoy a game. Not that more representation would be bad, on the contrary, it's a shame Unity and FC4 don't have female playable characters and Ubi's response is really reaching, and there ought to be more games with more varied playable characters. And when you have situations like this, the devs should be called out for it. But to let it completely stop you from getting a game at all? It's a sad state of affairs all around.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Again, no one is expecting that per se. The point simply is that Ubisoft could have done that, and they didn't, even if the time period offered more choices than others in that regard. They are not obliged to not put only male leads in the game, like developers are not obliged to not make games that suck, or are not obliged to not represent women with token attributes that exist only for men's enjoyment, but they should: to create better, more inclusive, more interesting games, they should. If Ubisoft simply responded "we assumed a male lead because it's a AAA game, and we didn't think about gender-neutrality", that would have been an honest answer, an answer that showed the horrid state of AAA games but it's not news; but they tried to cover their asses with circumstantial arguments that have no real weight.

And they're not obliged to half ass a female character or put the effort in to do it well. It's not about whether or not "oh it's a triple A game so therefore it needs a male lead." They spent months in pre-production researching the time period, including major events and people. Then they had to spend months writing a story that fits into that role. It's NOT about thinking about gender-neutrality at all because you shouldn't suddenly expect that from this series. That's ridiculous. And a developer already accurately explained in explicit detail the amount of work involved and the repercussions of said work so don't you dare say that it doesn't have any weight.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

On this very forum you'll see people not playing a game because the lead is white, or the lead is black, or the lead is a woman, or the lead is a man, etc.

Sadly the want for more or less representation clouds some people's judgment and ability to enjoy a game. Not that more representation would be bad, on the contrary, it's a shame Unity and FC4 don't have female playable characters and Ubi's response is really reaching, and there ought to be more games with more varied playable characters. And when you have situations like this, the devs should be called out for it. But to let it completely stop you from getting a game at all? It's a sad state of affairs all around.

Ok, but can you understand the fact that a game with a male lead with male chauvinist traits, designed around the male gaze, with interchangeable female characters with token attributes maybe is not that enjoyable for a woman?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Ok, but can you understand the fact that a game with a male lead with male chauvinist traits, designed around the male gaze, with interchangeable female characters with token attributes maybe is not that enjoyable for a woman?

We have no idea about what the story is whatsoever besides very small tidbits. So where are you pulling those character traits from in the first place?

 

[wonderdung]

I'll just say that I'm happy they got called out in their BS excuse. It's cute to give girly animations to girls, but that's not a necessity.

By girly animations I mean a more womanly walk and stuff, not overly girly and stereotypical.

This isn't it at all. To make a convincing female character you need a different skeleton than a male character. To share an animation between a male character and a female character you have to retarget it to the female skeleton. Some engines might have ways to do it automatically, some don't.

It has nothing to do with "girly animations". And chances are good that the excuse is perfectly reasonable.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

And they're not obliged to half ass a female character or put the effort in to do it well. It's not about whether or not "oh it's a triple A game so therefore it needs a male lead." They spent months in pre-production researching the time period, including major events and people. Then they had to spend months writing a story that fits into that role. It's NOT about thinking about gender-neutrality at all because you shouldn't suddenly expect that from this series. That's ridiculous. And a developer already accurately explained in explicit detail the amount of work involved and the repercussions of said work so don't you dare say that it doesn't have any weight.

Well I'm not a developer so I don't know the technical details but I have read opposite opinions on that matter and I don't think there's a clear winner in that regard: but however you put it, in the initial stages of the game design they had a blank slate in front of them and they decided to go with a male lead for a time period that offered plenty of choices, and my guess is that the choice was made precisely because the male choice is the standard in AAA space.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

We have no idea about what the story is whatsoever besides very small tidbits. So where are you pulling those character traits from in the first place?

Nowhere, I was just responding to "Sadly the want for more or less representation clouds some people's judgment and ability to enjoy a game."

 

[Crossing Eden]

Well I'm not a developer so I don't know the technical details but I have read opposite opinions on that matter and I don't think there's a clear winner in that regard: but however you put it, in the initial stages of the game design they had a blank slate in front of them and they decided to go with a male lead for a time period that offered plenty of choices, and my guess is that the choice was made precisely because the male choice is the standard in AAA space.

No. No no, they never had a blank slate character. This game was always designed with a set character in mind. A character that would be more complex than any other character in the series on a technical level. They decided to go with a male after months and months of research and story planning because they felt that it would result in a better game. There is absolutely no issue there unless you wanna force them into making a female character just because you, someone with absolutely no storytelling experience whatsoever or even extensive knowledge about the period besides some wiki articles would feel that it would be better for everyone if you played as a female character. Which is in an issue in itself because you're trying to tell a bunch of animators, coders, testers, modelers, storytellers that they're doing their job wrong.

 

[davepoobond]

Isn't it professional courtesy not to comment on stuff like this since you don't know a team's operating budget? In any case, if it's really trivial, I don't see why all games don't include female alts. Yet, they don't, which suggests this might actually not be so trivial. PEACE.

I agree.

All these developers should be putting their money where their mouth is if it is so simple to include a female.

 

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

No. No no, they never had a blank slate character. This game was always designed with a set character in mind. A character that would be more complex than any other character in the series on a technical level. They decided to go with a male after months and months of research and story planning because they felt that it would result in a better game. There is absolutely no issue there unless you wanna force them into making a female character just because you, someone with absolutely no storytelling experience whatsoever or even extensive knowledge about the period besides some wiki articles would feel that it would be better for everyone if you played as a female character. Which is in an issue in itself because you're trying to tell a bunch of animators, coders, testers, modelers, storytellers that they're doing their job wrong.

Are you saying that a game set in the french revolution period must have a male lead to do the job right?

 

[Derp]

http://www.p4rgaming.com/ubisoft-most-developers-here-dont-even-know-what-a-woman-is/

Oh god i can't stop laughing.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Are you saying that a game set in the french revolution period must have a male lead to do the job right?

No, i'm saying that for this game Ubisoft decided that a male character was the better decision.

 

[Carcetti]

So you play as a character who gets killed mid-revolution after stabbing Marat with a kitchen knife?

It would be actually highly diminutive to pretend that she was "an assassin of the Assassin order!", like pyramid builders were aliens. She was a poor girl who got the guts to walk into Marat's home pretending she was there to deliver a letter with names of traitors, stabbed him in his bath with a kitchen knife, not a free-running assassin who would climb the walls of Notre-Dame to jump in hay stacks.

Do you believe that in the French revolution or in any other period of history ever existed a free-running male assassin who used a wrist blade and jumped into hay stacks? Because if so, I've got bad news for you.