Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
No one reported his crap that was obviously retarded if you have 3 brain cells. He was literally corrected on X in real time.
Christopher dring 'clarifies' his stance on gamepass.
- Thread starter Sebastian1295
- Start date
GHG
Member
Yes, and I've already stated the following in response to
SmurfMustard
:And prior to that:
Nice try though.
It's like some of you fail to realise that when businesses do this sort of thing it's often as a last resort out of necessity.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Totally agree.Yes, and I've already stated the following in response to
And prior to that:
Nice try though.
It's like some of you fail to realise that when businesses do this sort of thing it's often as a last resort out of necessity.
Sony killed what 2 or 3 studios in the last 12 months or so and canceled their games plus just announced a game in Helldivers 2 coming to Xbox of all places
I don't think anyone here remotely believes if PS+ was more profitable Concord would still be alive today, sometimes things just need to die and Xbox as a whole has been ran into the ground
RetroGamingUK
Member
The survival of said product depends on the profit it generates.
I'm obsessed with sales of Resident Evil games because I want new ones forever.
Last edited:
I can assure you I'm not being emotional about gamepass.
Like you say people can believe what they want, im not arsed in trying to change people's mind, because I really don't care.
AtomicStarving
Member
It's equally funny when those who didn't have the time to post and create threads about the initial tweet later didn't have the same impetus to point out the correction... Which is simply a new example of how the way people act depends on the narrative.
Dring is an expert at generating this type of situation with his comments/"information"....
Last edited:
RCX
Member
Dev costs not counted. It's not profitable. /
But that's not what it was designed for. It was supposed to be a loss-leader to kill sony and nintendo. But thats never going to happen and now its a financial black hole for the xbox division. Translated: the best deal in gaming™ is going to get a whole lot more expensive over the next 18-24 months.
But that's not what it was designed for. It was supposed to be a loss-leader to kill sony and nintendo. But thats never going to happen and now its a financial black hole for the xbox division. Translated: the best deal in gaming™ is going to get a whole lot more expensive over the next 18-24 months.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Don't worry, like the RE franchise, Game Pass is good.
I will quote a visionary from yesterday's thread.
GHG
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
That's not a clarification. It's just being pressured to 180* your statement.
PurePlatinum
Member
With all this discourse, it still just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Nobody is coming out with definitive statements one way or the other and it's all ultimately just speculation because MSFT themselves don't release numbers, and won't tell us what metrics they are using to get to the "profitable" moniker.
And profitable has nothing to do with how healthy it is for the industry, which is seems almost certainly unhealthy.
And profitable has nothing to do with how healthy it is for the industry, which is seems almost certainly unhealthy.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
First they got to Trump, then Dring. Before we know it, you'll be praising Dragon's Dogma 2. No one is beyond their reach.
Zacfoldor
Member
He couldn't stand the heat so he folded like a pack of cards.
Gamepass didn't count 1st party games I believe.
Gamepass is still profitable even with those figured in...nah. Bull fucking shit. I got gaslighted about this for years. I no longer believe it. Never will again frankly.
The scales have fallen from our eyes and the truth was laid bare. There is no putting this genie back in the bottle.
He's saying it is profitable today(nah, don't believe it). Ask him if it was profitable at the time of the original lie. Also ask him what the point of them lying by omission was to us in the first place? Is the supposed rumor that gamepass is profitable today even with 1st party factored in(lol) ask him is that the point? Why is the point not that we were lied to? How is a supposed random "fact" from today's numbers supposed to change that? Baffle us with bullshit and the shills and fanboys will cover their ass, is that right? Is that what we are supposed to buy and just bebop on down to the store in a few months and buy a new xbox?
Gamepass didn't count 1st party games I believe.
Gamepass is still profitable even with those figured in...nah. Bull fucking shit. I got gaslighted about this for years. I no longer believe it. Never will again frankly.
The scales have fallen from our eyes and the truth was laid bare. There is no putting this genie back in the bottle.
He's saying it is profitable today(nah, don't believe it). Ask him if it was profitable at the time of the original lie. Also ask him what the point of them lying by omission was to us in the first place? Is the supposed rumor that gamepass is profitable today even with 1st party factored in(lol) ask him is that the point? Why is the point not that we were lied to? How is a supposed random "fact" from today's numbers supposed to change that? Baffle us with bullshit and the shills and fanboys will cover their ass, is that right? Is that what we are supposed to buy and just bebop on down to the store in a few months and buy a new xbox?
Last edited:
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Member
Oh Jesus please no. anything but this.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Thanks Dad.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Gold Member
He is a journalist trying to report on finance and accounting concepts outside his wheelhouse the best he can. Unfortunately he's getting mixed up and it's understandable. Also doesn't help that Microsoft is muddying the waters by discussing lost revenue aka opportunity cost as this isn't an investor facing metric in financial statements and not a factor in financial statement profitability. However, development costs are and Microsoft had bizarrely chosen not to include.
Baemono
Member
This is classic Microsoft PR stunt. "Only four games" "but actually he never said only four games"
Dring said initially they don't count the costs of making the 1st party games to fuel Game Pass. They "count" lost sales of those 1st party sales, and come up with the conclusion that it's still profitable. So much so that they started putting the games elsewhere.
Of course if you belive you would only sell 10 copies of your game to your fanbase used to not buy game, at the end you can math and say there are almost no lost sales.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Given that they are both a platform holder and the largest publisher on the planet, wouldn't you immediately presume that their costs are many times that revenue? I honestly cannot reconcile the notion that Xbox is losing much less than 9 figures a year.
You almost forget the fact that their own projections were so deluded. There have been so many lies and copes and fantasies to keep up this farcical narrative that I think I might have to compile them. Anyone remember when Cloud gaming was going to help them onboard a larger share of the 2 billion "gamers"?
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Literally an amoeba with glasses and no spine, for a company setting a world record in layoffs, game cancellations and studio closures.
This is Western games journalism.
Then Dring is a bigger idiot than I thought, as MS themselves have admitted, in court, that Game Pass cannibalizes game sales.
And if Microsoft were lying about that, then it's an open-shut case to not trust them on anything. So why would Dring trust whatever rushed damage-control spiel given to him by MS now unless he is, in fact, an idiot?
I mean I hate to say that because I do agree with some of their takes, but we've gotta start weeding out the BS when it comes to games media literally hawking whatever a certain company wants the narrative to be. They are destroying discourse and actively helping contribute to destructive trends & habits in the market.
I may have some respect for you Dring, but I'm 100% holding you accountable here.
We don't need Dring's word to prove that Game Pass is unprofitable. We have leaked court documents, plenty of circumstantial evidence (i.e lack of courting big 3P Day 1 releases which in part led to purchasing Zenimax & ABK), yet more circumstantial evidence (lack of consistent sub updates, no Game Pass revenue figures shared with shareholders, plenty of devs who've mentioned it hurts their game sales, etc.), and so forth, to conclude that Game Pass is not a profitable venture.
Only people who can't think for themselves "need" someone like Dring to tell them what to believe.
This is Western games journalism.
Then Dring is a bigger idiot than I thought, as MS themselves have admitted, in court, that Game Pass cannibalizes game sales.
And if Microsoft were lying about that, then it's an open-shut case to not trust them on anything. So why would Dring trust whatever rushed damage-control spiel given to him by MS now unless he is, in fact, an idiot?
I mean I hate to say that because I do agree with some of their takes, but we've gotta start weeding out the BS when it comes to games media literally hawking whatever a certain company wants the narrative to be. They are destroying discourse and actively helping contribute to destructive trends & habits in the market.
I may have some respect for you Dring, but I'm 100% holding you accountable here.
We don't need Dring's word to prove that Game Pass is unprofitable. We have leaked court documents, plenty of circumstantial evidence (i.e lack of courting big 3P Day 1 releases which in part led to purchasing Zenimax & ABK), yet more circumstantial evidence (lack of consistent sub updates, no Game Pass revenue figures shared with shareholders, plenty of devs who've mentioned it hurts their game sales, etc.), and so forth, to conclude that Game Pass is not a profitable venture.
Only people who can't think for themselves "need" someone like Dring to tell them what to believe.
Last edited:
viveks86
Member
Let me explain potential lost revenue to the layperson. It is... whatever Microsoft says it is, because said revenue never materialized. If they think they didn't lose any "potential" revenue, then they didn't. The part that matters is this:
So... I don't know what he thinks he clarified, other than saying the same thing with even more words. Potential lost revenue is phantom money. Sounds to me like he was "convinced" in some way to backtrack and damage control.
Having said that, when you separate Gamepass as it's own P&L, then it does kinda make sense to account this way. Basically the game studios become primarily cost centers (like R&D) operating at a loss (with whatever little revenue comes from MTX and direct sales) and they shield Gamepass from the bad rep. It's just silly to claim that as a victory for Gamepass when the studios are all taking a hit to prop it up. As long as MS is deluding themselves internally, studios will continue to be squeezed, until some form of sustainable business model emerges or they all shutdown.
So... I don't know what he thinks he clarified, other than saying the same thing with even more words. Potential lost revenue is phantom money. Sounds to me like he was "convinced" in some way to backtrack and damage control.
Having said that, when you separate Gamepass as it's own P&L, then it does kinda make sense to account this way. Basically the game studios become primarily cost centers (like R&D) operating at a loss (with whatever little revenue comes from MTX and direct sales) and they shield Gamepass from the bad rep. It's just silly to claim that as a victory for Gamepass when the studios are all taking a hit to prop it up. As long as MS is deluding themselves internally, studios will continue to be squeezed, until some form of sustainable business model emerges or they all shutdown.
mayham2199
Member
Which is exactly what Sneakers was saying in the other thread has the western media is garbage and just eating up whatever these companies are telling them and repeating it. No real journalism involved just parroting whatever you're told by the trillion dollar company that has consistently been caught lying and misleading people.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
SkyHighTrees
Member
aaaaaaaaa xbox dies way too slow and them 5 dudes that is here defending they ass makes my dick hard
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
They're all crawling out today, huh?
And yeah, I respect Jason's reporting too...well, generally in some instances. But why are all these journalists making excuses for a multi-trillion dollar megacorp as if it's a defenseless child? What's wrong with them?
Also where the hell is this "growth" for Game Pass? It hasn't existed for YEARS, that's the reason Satya hasn't given a subscriber count update (officially) since early 2022. The growth has stalled and, I'd bet, is shrinking now that a lot of the loopholes and cheaper pricing are gone. The last time they had "growth" was when they rolled XBL Gold into Game Pass Core and added those numbers in.
Or what, is MS going to start counting Microsoft Account logins as Game Pass subscribers? "Growth" in subscriptions mattered so much to MS, apparently, that now they're simply publishing their games everywhere. Isn't that antithetical to driving traffic towards the subscription service? Enough evidence suggests that it is. It'd be like if Netflix released disc editions of their shows and movies Day 1 alongside them premiering in the service, back when Netflix was still in its early growth phase. That would have killed momentum for the subscription side since customer habits hadn't completely shifted away from physical media at the time.
The same problem now exists with Game Pass, and until MS actually commits by making games only available in the service, they won't train people to shift their habits at a mass scale to see any further growth. But we know MS won't do this, because Satya's on record saying he hates exclusives. Making Game Pass exclusives would mean not only abandoning individual releases on Xbox, but end ports to Steam, PlayStation & Nintendo as well.
Microsoft's thirst & greed for profits is a death knell for going the most obvious route for Game Pass route, so I guess "growth" in that way isn't important to them after all, Schreier.
Last edited:
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I guess it depends on how you break out the cost. They can put it in its own sector and GP have publishing deals and not be in MS game publishing. I am sure there is an accounting shell game going on somewhere.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What the actual fuck is he talking about in this word salad mess? It literally gave me a headache reading it because it's so convoluted.
He's just saying the samething he said yesterday, but with more words. Real GamePass is not profitable, if you include the cost to make the 1st party games.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not really .. he's explicitly saying that even if you include the 'lost revenue' from first party sales and even MTX income, it's still profitable.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
The question, at this point, should be whether the whole business model would be making more money going the more traditional route, particularly when staring dead in the face of a $70b acquisition. I have serious doubts and nothing Dring said initially or in his flipflop changes that. But ultimately it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or me or Phil Spencer. Make it make sense to Amy Hood and Satya Nadella.
I actually brought up this point discussing the MS situation with
HeisenbergFX4
the day before Chris Dring's shit hit the fan.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
does this statement:
negates this statement in relation to GP not accounting for the production cost of First part games?
if you get triggered, don't @ me but Elon, Nutella and the Chinese party
negates this statement in relation to GP not accounting for the production cost of First part games?
No, the second statement does not negate the first one in relation to Game Pass (GP) not accounting for the production cost of first-party games.
I concluded that the second statement partially negates the first by addressing the concern about lost revenue (a key part of the earlier implication) and showing profitability holds despite this inclusion. However, it does not negate the core point that development costs remain unaccounted for in the Game Pass P&L, aligning with the first statement on that specific detail.
The second tweet reinforces the first rather than negating it. Both emphasize that while Game Pass is a successful and profitable service, it doesn't single-handedly pay for the high costs of first-party game development—Xbox still relies on additional revenue streams (game sales, hardware, etc.).
if you get triggered, don't @ me but Elon, Nutella and the Chinese party
Jigsaah
Gold Member
This Dring guy just needs to stop talking. I think this is the second or third time within the past two weeks he's unnecessarily stirred the pot because he apparently has no self awareness of how his words might be taken.
You can't blame anyone who poo-poo'ed all over his last X convo. Also....18 months ago you asked this? CONTEXT DUDE.
You can't blame anyone who poo-poo'ed all over his last X convo. Also....18 months ago you asked this? CONTEXT DUDE.
viveks86
Member
Dude, 'lost revenue' is meaningless. Literally everything he added today is meaningless. The basic claim, that cost of game development is not factored at all, remains. See his new post on this page quoted by
ChiefDada
. It's the same perfume, but in a cloud of farts. Yes he corrected his claim on "lost revenue", but that shit ain't even a real metric to begin with. It's purely speculative.
Last edited:
Sooner
Member
Consumers who are considering investing hundreds or thousands more into an ecosystem that may or may not exists ten years from now.
The same reason why Microsoft is so desperately trying to convince people its doing great, yet refuses to give actual data.
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
ERA post from 'eclips':
I don't know what year/s this is referring to, does anyone here know?
Are these annual or monthly, if they're monthly are they for a single month?
I don't know what year/s this is referring to, does anyone here know?
Are these annual or monthly, if they're monthly are they for a single month?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah that part, without him clarifying beforehand, was just stupid. Asking for it to be taken out of context in forum warz.
Baemono
Member
I mean he doesn't really understand it either I guess
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No, you aren't getting it. You have to include the actual cost to make the game too, to Gamepass. If you don't, then you are just lying to yourself as a business and to your shareholders. Few key points.
- MS adds a 3rd party game to GP (MS includes this as a GP expense)
- There's a cost to marketing GP (MS includes this as a GP expense)
- There's a cost to running servers that house GP and all the streaming stuff (MS includes this as a GP expense)
- There's a cost to making 1st party games that get added to GP (MS does NOT add this as a GP expense)
- There's lost revenue to adding a 1st party game to GP (MS includes this as a GP expense)
You can't make a game like Avowed for $75 Million and add it to Game Pass day one, and say "well of course it didn't sell great, it's on GamePass". But then not include any of the development cost of Avowed to GamePass expenses. That's cheating or "creative accounting" as Wall Street calls it.
foamdino
Member
It's quite simple really. Some people are trying top obfuscate things by saying 'including lost sales/cannibalisation' it's profitable - but that wasn't the question - the question is:
If you were running Gamepass Co - are you profitable or not? The answer is No - it is only profitable if it is inside MS with arcane accounting tricks where the cost of staff/offices/servers/HR/marketing/development/hosting etc is borne by other parts of the business.
It's a massive scam that anyone with a couple of brain cells can tell is not profitable. It is a value destructive, race to the bottom service. If it was brilliantly profitable then it would be being called out in financials every quarter - it is not. Satya removed GamePass performance from his own KPIs - it is not profitable or he would have kept that in. I mean how many signals do you need?
- Is gamepass profitable if you take into account the complete cost of goods sold?
- If there was a GamePass Company who's sole product was GamePass - would this company be profitable?
If you were running Gamepass Co - are you profitable or not? The answer is No - it is only profitable if it is inside MS with arcane accounting tricks where the cost of staff/offices/servers/HR/marketing/development/hosting etc is borne by other parts of the business.
It's a massive scam that anyone with a couple of brain cells can tell is not profitable. It is a value destructive, race to the bottom service. If it was brilliantly profitable then it would be being called out in financials every quarter - it is not. Satya removed GamePass performance from his own KPIs - it is not profitable or he would have kept that in. I mean how many signals do you need?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Dev costs are recouped other ways, not just GP.
If you're going to add entire development cost of games under GP, even though they are recouping costs by other means, we might as well add the entire revenue stream of Call of Duty under Game Pass, even though it's getting most of it elsewhere.
Right? It'd only be fair if we do it that way.
Last edited:
viveks86
Member
Agreed. But it's not cheating, as long as they separately report Avowed making a loss of X million dollars. This is basically marketing spin, which isn't illegal. It is certainly harmful in the long run though.
foamdino
Member
Dev costs are recouped other ways, not just GP.
If you're going to add entire development cost of games under GP, even though they are recouping costs by other means, we might as well add the entire revenue stream of Call of Duty under Game Pass, even though it's getting most of it elsewhere.
Right? It'd only be fair if we do it that way.
Ok so the MS accounting principles are:
- all revenues -> allocate this to GamePass
- all expenses -> allocate these to the individual studios
Also now we know why all the studios are being closed, they are 100% cost centres that deliver zero value.