Luis Suarez the football vampire has bitten another player [Update: BANNED]
- Thread starter GalacticaN7
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jts
...hate me...
The fuck? The first thing pretty every player in the same position would the same, and let me tell you, if there was a player on my team that could've done the same and didn't, thus getting the whole team and country kicked out of the world cup, I would want his ass banned from the team forever.
Jonesy7707
Member
There was now emoticon or /s following it so I wasn't sure and with some of the outlandish stuff people have come out with over this incident nothing is really surprising any more.
That's the only part of your post that I'd disagree with. Morally (and/or legally) grotesque attitudes (like the ones being discussed in this thread) are not obviously (or necessarily) due to mental health issues. That's a common generalizing mistake (not only in medical terms), that potentially brings - at least - two negative implications/outcomes:
- Firstly (and more importantly), you're putting under the same label/group: people that really have a mental health issue (id est., sick people, that need medical treatment/help), and murderers, bigots, rapists, etc (i.e., mostly mentally healthy people, that deserves - as applied by the law - "corrective punishment"). And that is a problem, because you're endorsing - even if unintentionally - a stigmatizing stereotype against mentally ill patients;
- Secondly, the "mental issue argument" is often used as justification (or as a reason, or the reason) for a harsher punishment. But that argument is logically flawed, because if the offender (in this case, Suárez) is indeed mentally "ill", he could be considered partially or totally unaccountable ("not imputable") for his actions. Therefore, the penalty should be more lenient.
I know I'm going offtopic here, and it's not my intention to start a meta-discussion. Also, I quoted Steve, but my post is not directed strictly to him. I just felt that it would be an opportunity to "call out" on a generalizing mistake, that is often observed in threads like this one.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
It's not surprising to see that Uruguayans are defending their own. It would be the same with every other country in the world
Erm no, he would be ripped to pieces by the English if he lived here. Did you see how much stick David Beckham got for just flicking his leg?
Although I agree with you, sportsmanship is super rare in the world of professional sports and it should never be expected.
It's just sad when a Luis Suarez type incident is showcased in the world cup(when the entire world is watching) over and over. Gives association football a bad name.
| Praxis |
Banned
I doubt it. I'm not saying one country is better than another, but guaranteed if this was a English player most people and the media would be out for his blood (in the immediate aftermath at least).
Just look at what happened to Beckham when he kicked that guy in the World Cup.
I hate to generalize though, the people that turned up to welcome him home are hardly representative of the entire population of Uruguay. You would get some arseholes like that in every country. It's the local media that I don't understand.
WAR recon zero
Banned
uruguayan president has invited Suarez.
imagine Clinton inviting Tyson :lol
imagine Clinton inviting Tyson :lol
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
What the hell is he doing? You were supposed to be the coolest president.
| Praxis |
Banned
This has probably been posted, but I didn't think I could dislike this fat, coke sniffing twat any more than I already did.
Maradona quote:
Likening his punishment to that of Guantanamo? What a complete fucking douche.
Maradona quote:
Likening his punishment to that of Guantanamo? What a complete fucking douche.
It is Maradona, what do you expect haha
I usually base my respect of a player's in-game conduct by a combination of ethics and smart decision making. I don't think a player who makes a tactical decision that benefits his team is a player who doesn't deserve respect if a) said decision doesn't cause preventable injury, or b) the decision doesn't land outside the rules established by the game being played.
It's tactically sound to take a delay of game penalty in certain situations in American Football.
It's tactically sound to foul a player in a wide variety of situations in Basketball.
A hockey player would glove pass a loose puck in the crease 100 percent of the time if it was the best option available to him or her.
I would say that in his position, it was tactically sound for Suarez to handball a sure goal away. If the rules of your game aren't sufficient enough to curtail unsportsmanlike play, change them. Instead of a penalty kick, award the goal.
While I understand the sportsmanship angle, Suarez made a judgment call within the confines of his sport - one that inflicted no injury to the other team. The choice, objectively, was between "sure goal" or "a really good chance of the other team scoring."
This ignores somewhat the respective taboo levels of a handball compared to the examples penalties of other sports I used: the comparison drawn is on the basis of all being infringements of the rules in their sport which penalizes the player, but have tactical value to commit.
World class player with no works ethics, make me wonder... He's a good NINE but, he is like PEPE (not a NINE, CENTRAL) from the RM, they are like animals in the field, don't respect the beauty of futbol (I'm from Colombia, I'm not going to call it soccer).
Allan Holdsworth
Member
Biggest exaggeration ever to me. But I don't see how a harmless bite that does no damage is worse than punching someone in the face.
Lol, who punched someone in the face? What are you comparing it to?
I think there's two different philosophies of rulebreaking in sport that are prevalent in this thread.
* The first regards rulebreaking as an explicit breach of the code of honour in sport, and feels that all actions in sport should be played out within the limitations defined by the rulebook.
* The second regards rulebreaking as a resource that can and should be strategically tapped in order to bring about victory.
While I would generally subscribe to the first view, I can see arguments in favour of the latter. Maybe it simply boils down to "playing to play" versus "playing to win"?
I don't think anyone denies that it is a tactically sound decision if we ignore the spirit of the sport. Especially in the specific situation he was in, he had absolutely nothing to lose by doing what he did... except his dignity. If you value victory over what anyone thinks about you at all, sure that would be the only right maneuver to make in that situation. But being a person who lives in society can be more than that. Taking his career as a whole though, it's just another example that Suarez doesn't care what people think of him and has no respect for anything at all.
How does that inflict no injury to the other team?
WAR recon zero
Banned
they are going to kick the shit out of us on Saturday. I predict lots of blood. that's the garra charrua for you, bunch of assholes kicking and poor sportsmanship disguised as guts
fun fact: an Uruguayan player broke a Colombian player's ribs on Chile 62 taking him out of the game. this was before red cards and subs
we started the game winning. we ended with 9 man and lost 1-2.
fun fact: an Uruguayan player broke a Colombian player's ribs on Chile 62 taking him out of the game. this was before red cards and subs
we started the game winning. we ended with 9 man and lost 1-2.
In the sense that a tactical decision doesn't rest on gooning it up. For example, it would be tactically sound to take the other team's star player out by instructing your worst player to injure him, but ethically egregious to such a degree that a victory due to that maneuver would be hollow. I understand this is how people view a handball; I'm outlining my personal parameters of what I find tolerable in competition.
Megabyte117
Member
Truly? What do you think our chances are? I assume without Suarez it'll be easier.
Randy Monk
Member
Geez, what a terrible heart wrenching story.
Anyways, gonna go to bookies and punt Uruguay to win 2-1. Like they say, History repeats itself.
crazygambit
Member
We're still talking about the hand save?
Then yes, every single player in every single team would be expected to perform that save the same way.
It's not in any way or form cheating. A player always has the possibility of using his hands, he will be then penalized accordingly. Pretty much every coach on earth would cut you if you refuse. I don't think there's even much to debate here.
The other day I saw a player fall down in the penalty zone and the ref granted a penalty for that team. He got up, went to the ref and told him it wasn't a penalty that he just tripped. Now that's something you can actually debate. I think he was right, but I could definitely see how some of his teammates might resent that move. But using your hands to stop a sure goal at the last minute? You're supposed to do that.
Edit: Making up a penalty with a dive is a much, much bigger offense than stopping that shot with the hand and pretty much every player does it (except the guy I talked about above). Now that's actually cheating.
gutterboy44
Member
Even if you eliminate the three bites, racist remark, and the WC hand ball, Suarez's conduct on the pitch is consistently what I consider unsportsmanlike. Every player at some point in going to draw a foul for the sake of their team and competition in their career. It is natural to judge each infraction on their previous behavior. Is this a player who you never see dive? Let's take a look at the replay carefully. Is it someone like Ronaldo? You are yelling, "get the fuck up" at the TV before the whistle blows. This extends beyond soccer to other sports where "diving" can be advantageous. Suarez is a chronic diver and already in the upper echelons of infamous floppers. He is always willing to cheat the system to the greatest extent possible to his and his team's benefit. With out any racism or biting, I think he is a disgrace to the sport. He is not alone, and all the other chronic divers should have post-match cards given.
As much of as a talent as he was, I was happy to see Ronaldo leave Man U because of his constant diving, and being forced on the defensive in casual conversations about him, a position I didn't want to be in because there is no defending that behavior. It pained me to see Nani emulate his idol on the flopping front more than the talent front. He can fuck off now too (for several reasons). Same with Young, I don't care if you get a PK every time, fuck off. I don't live in the UK (or another soccer-centric country) so I don't have to pretend my team alliance some how reflects me as a person so I am always quick to insult these pathetic "sportsman" even when it is to the benefit of my team.
Suarez is a Grade-A cunt on his best footie days. Throw three biting incidents and his racist remarks on top of his regular "sporting" behavior and he has sunk so far below the realm of sportsmanship, that debating the merits of a single handball is like debating whether or not Michael Vick shouldn't have yelled so loud at his dog in the park that one day.
Furthermore, he shows no remorse or guilt for his actions and wants to play victim. This most recent biting and the Evra debacle are the most egregious of this playing victim. But should we be surprised? No. This is the exact behavior he exhibits when running in to the 18 yard box. He is the victim of the non existent foul, he should get the PK and the plaudits. That he is somehow the one we should pity and not deplore. Before there is even the consideration of his long term psychological treatment (which I thought he was already receiving after his second bite no?) he needs to first be a man. Take full responsibilities for your actions and prove the detractors wrong...for once. Alas, Suarez continues to do the opposite, now with an entire nation behind him pushing him in the wrong direction. He has again proven the detractors right, each time with an escalating level of disgrace.
The idea that now is the time to "cut him some slack" or be more lenient is absurd. How can anyone for a second think this ban is too harsh when a series of other bans have done nothing to curb his behavior, biting and otherwise. If we want to talk about, "oh but what about all the other things players get away with" lets continue with Suarez since we have the tapes in the player. If retroactive simulation cards were issued, you would see Suarez suspended far more matches than his chomping infractions have accumulated at this point. I don't know how a player could any more loudly and clearly demonstrate the level at which he is willing to forgo the spirit of the sport, sportsmanship and personal decency to win at all costs. Throw up any Rooney or Young gif you want. I am on your side. They should be punished for elbows or diving, because otherwise no one is going to learn, the exact same way without escalating punishments for Suarez he always going to come out on top, long term. The risk to reward is so fucking skewed in soccer right now, especially for diving. It is no surprise it runs rampant at the top levels of play.
This is not only a player I would never want associated with my club of choice, no matter his scoring prowess, but someone I wouldn't want to associate with as a human being. Moreover, I wouldn't ever want to be on record making excuses for his actions. Liverpool will move on, Uruguay will move on, but Suarez's legacy as a person and player is forever tainted. I look forward to revisiting this exact same discussion in a year, maybe less when he commits the next headline grabbing offense. Fifth time is the charm?
As much of as a talent as he was, I was happy to see Ronaldo leave Man U because of his constant diving, and being forced on the defensive in casual conversations about him, a position I didn't want to be in because there is no defending that behavior. It pained me to see Nani emulate his idol on the flopping front more than the talent front. He can fuck off now too (for several reasons). Same with Young, I don't care if you get a PK every time, fuck off. I don't live in the UK (or another soccer-centric country) so I don't have to pretend my team alliance some how reflects me as a person so I am always quick to insult these pathetic "sportsman" even when it is to the benefit of my team.
Suarez is a Grade-A cunt on his best footie days. Throw three biting incidents and his racist remarks on top of his regular "sporting" behavior and he has sunk so far below the realm of sportsmanship, that debating the merits of a single handball is like debating whether or not Michael Vick shouldn't have yelled so loud at his dog in the park that one day.
Furthermore, he shows no remorse or guilt for his actions and wants to play victim. This most recent biting and the Evra debacle are the most egregious of this playing victim. But should we be surprised? No. This is the exact behavior he exhibits when running in to the 18 yard box. He is the victim of the non existent foul, he should get the PK and the plaudits. That he is somehow the one we should pity and not deplore. Before there is even the consideration of his long term psychological treatment (which I thought he was already receiving after his second bite no?) he needs to first be a man. Take full responsibilities for your actions and prove the detractors wrong...for once. Alas, Suarez continues to do the opposite, now with an entire nation behind him pushing him in the wrong direction. He has again proven the detractors right, each time with an escalating level of disgrace.
The idea that now is the time to "cut him some slack" or be more lenient is absurd. How can anyone for a second think this ban is too harsh when a series of other bans have done nothing to curb his behavior, biting and otherwise. If we want to talk about, "oh but what about all the other things players get away with" lets continue with Suarez since we have the tapes in the player. If retroactive simulation cards were issued, you would see Suarez suspended far more matches than his chomping infractions have accumulated at this point. I don't know how a player could any more loudly and clearly demonstrate the level at which he is willing to forgo the spirit of the sport, sportsmanship and personal decency to win at all costs. Throw up any Rooney or Young gif you want. I am on your side. They should be punished for elbows or diving, because otherwise no one is going to learn, the exact same way without escalating punishments for Suarez he always going to come out on top, long term. The risk to reward is so fucking skewed in soccer right now, especially for diving. It is no surprise it runs rampant at the top levels of play.
This is not only a player I would never want associated with my club of choice, no matter his scoring prowess, but someone I wouldn't want to associate with as a human being. Moreover, I wouldn't ever want to be on record making excuses for his actions. Liverpool will move on, Uruguay will move on, but Suarez's legacy as a person and player is forever tainted. I look forward to revisiting this exact same discussion in a year, maybe less when he commits the next headline grabbing offense. Fifth time is the charm?
I think he is talking about their playstyle, not the final score. Im confident that Colombia will get a hard-fought win.
WAR recon zero
Banned
they will be out for blood and be playing at 100%.
Godin is a beast. he has scored many goals from set pieces.
Cavani is a great forward. when he is inspired he can be better than falcao
the chances are 50%-50% to me. however, if we win, we may win by several goals.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
by the way, since suarez's little snack led to a ban that prevents him both playing and training for his club, is there any chance clubs will consider adding clauses to contracts that players can't take part in national tournaments? there's already a chance of injury while playing in a match that does not benefit the team that actually pays the player, and now there's the added risk of a player getting suspended in the club for something that happened in the national team.
Exactly, there have been hundreds of players around the world in the same position Suarez was that day, and yet it's so rare to see. What if an italian player had done the same thing the other day. It's antifootball.
IMO plays like that should be called like goal tending in Basketball, award the goal as it was clearly going in and red card the player. Awarding a penalty, like it was shown, could go either way and a red card to a player that was already going out of the tournament anyway is no enough of a deterrent.
What did you expect? A well thought, considered, smart and intelligent response? ARE YOU FUCKING OUT OF YOUR MIND? is maradroga we're talking about.
WAR recon zero
Banned
FIFA wants the players to participate in national teams. such clause would be illegal. if a NT wants a club player, they must allow him to go, no questions asked. only exceptions are injuries.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
hmm, still wouldn't be surprised if many key players would get mysteriously "injured" just in time for national tournaments.
N
NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
And Maradona can?
Sounds like a good way to keep a player happy, stop them from playing for their country.
And this is why I start to hate the sport.
Alas I can't do without it (more precisely I cannot live without A.S. Roma).
But god I wish they would just change some rules to put at a disadvantage players who go against the rules (meaning that what they do causes a foul).
- Intentional fouls should be yellow cards and the yellow card system should be like in Rugby = Sin Bin.
-Divers should be retroactively punished by a committee of judges (ref officials)
-Hand ball saves like the Suarez incident in 2010 should just be a goal
-FIFA / UEFA should buy stop watches allowing the referee to stop time if there is a long break due to injury etc.
and all this is off the top of my head, I sure there are other logical and simple changes that can be applied.
I would even consider increasing the goal size thus increasing goal so as to make penalties less important (as you can score in other ways) thus reducing the diving in the box shit.
Well I could go on and on. In the end nothing will change... it took so many years to introduce hawk eye for the ghost goals... who am I kidding...
WAR recon zero
Banned
the dream for anyone in a football driven country is to play in a WC. there have been cases of injured players that go to the WC at any cost. (see: Maradona '90, Ronaldo '2014,)
jts
...hate me...
I'm not imposing my opinion on anyone, but I have never seen a player in the same position not doing the same. Sometimes it just comes from instinct (in that Suarez play you can even see another player doing the same). You are protecting your goal, no matter what.
In one of the first football matches I saw live, I was about 10... long, loooong ago. My team was playing a cup final. The game was tied on extra time, and something just like that 2010 match happened... a man from the other team saved the goal with his hand.
Guess what? Penalty kick, the player scores, we win the cup (actually the scandalous part is that the referee awarded the other player a YELLOW card rather than a red). Never regarded that player as a cheater. He even played for us, years later.
It's not cheating. The laws of the game were thoroughly followed and enforced. Blame the game, not the player.
ThaneKrios
Banned
Sarcastico
Member
This already happens with pointless international friendlies. But for the world cup and continental tournaments, there's nothing bigger for players than to represent their countries.
In other words, it's all up to the player and if the national side is willing to pick said player for their matches.
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