I don't dispute that modern humans (outside of Southern Africa) likely have also have Neanderthal genes I dispute the statement that it's those genes that made them pale.
Kim Kardashian's night out RUINED by attendant in BLACKFACE :biblio:
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I don't dispute that modern humans (outside of Southern Africa) likely have also have Neanderthal genes I dispute the statement that it's those genes that made them pale.
loaf of bread
Member
How can she tell that its blackface like that. I'm not denying it but watching the video he just looked black to me ( which would be his point but still ).
Angelus Errare
Banned
My response to the cosplay question.
When you're dressing up as an Asian character, do you paint your face yellow and tape your eyes back?
When you're dressing up as an Asian character, do you paint your face yellow and tape your eyes back?
I usually stay away from these debates, but whatever.
Blackface, as in, the original blackface of painting your face pitchblack and your lips super red to replace black musicians and mock them, that's without a drop of doubt racist. Simply painting your face black or brown or whatever, calling it a day and saying "I'm Kanye!" just because you painted your face, that's racist; it's reducing a person just to the color of his skin.
But what if you're actually impersonating someone, like, you're in a talent show and you're impersonating a musician, you mimic the voice and gestures, the clothes, the hair, is it racist to paint your face (not like the original blackface obviously)?
I don't understand why it is, the same way it's not offensive to use prosthetics, wigs or makeup to look a certain way, as long as you don't go overboard, like giving an actor a huge nose to characterize him as jewish for example.
Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's was immensely racist for example, not only were they applying ridiculous stereotypes, they were also doing it so they wouldn't have to employ an asian actor.
To me it seems like US citizens extrapolate from the terrible history of racism with Jim Crow, blackface and everything surrounding that and apply it generally. Is it sexist to dress as a woman for example?
I'm just genuinely trying to understand.
Blackface, as in, the original blackface of painting your face pitchblack and your lips super red to replace black musicians and mock them, that's without a drop of doubt racist. Simply painting your face black or brown or whatever, calling it a day and saying "I'm Kanye!" just because you painted your face, that's racist; it's reducing a person just to the color of his skin.
But what if you're actually impersonating someone, like, you're in a talent show and you're impersonating a musician, you mimic the voice and gestures, the clothes, the hair, is it racist to paint your face (not like the original blackface obviously)?
I don't understand why it is, the same way it's not offensive to use prosthetics, wigs or makeup to look a certain way, as long as you don't go overboard, like giving an actor a huge nose to characterize him as jewish for example.
Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's was immensely racist for example, not only were they applying ridiculous stereotypes, they were also doing it so they wouldn't have to employ an asian actor.
To me it seems like US citizens extrapolate from the terrible history of racism with Jim Crow, blackface and everything surrounding that and apply it generally. Is it sexist to dress as a woman for example?
I'm just genuinely trying to understand.
It's too hot for that here.
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
Yeah, guy did his makeup well. Did he say racist shit or act stupid or what is particularly offensive about it? Go and know. I find it kinda funny how humans find all kind of things offensive.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Well they did find a 8k old european and he was not white but had blue eyes, he's related to swedes
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yes, they could have simply…hired a male Asian actor.
The point of the movie was using the same actors in different ages and settings, to reinforce the point that they were reincarnations (or something along those lines). Or else they could have hired a woman to play the nurse instead of Hugo Weaving.
Read the first link I've posted. It's a very recent study.
Either way, we were all black at some point, and in maybe two hundred years, pretty much everyone in the northern hemisphere will probably be white:
August Sabac el Cher (1836 - 1885)
His son Gustav Sabac el Cher (1868 - 1935)
Gustav's grandson Axel Sabac el Cher
With interracial partnerships, it only takes three or four generations.
Read the first link I've posted. It's a very recent study.
Either way, we were all black at some point, and in maybe two hundred years, pretty much everyone in the northern hemisphere will probably be white:
August Sabac el Cher (1836 - 1885)
His son Gustav Sabac el Cher (1868 - 1935)
Gustav's grandson Axel Sabac el Cher
With interracial partnerships, it only takes three or four generations.
Cher
its problematic because all the makeup artists had to do was tape the actors' eyes back
like seriously, all asians dont have "small" eyes
Oh yeah, that was stupid no doubt and it looked terrible. I'm just talking about using that actor instead of an asian one, which would defeat the purpose of the movie.
EDIT: In fact, when I first saw him, I thought he was supposed to be an evolution of "race" from homogenization and interracial marriages and whatnot, but then the other asian characters from the future showed up and I realized it was just poor makeup.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Khloe and Kim aren't the same person.
And Khloe is no exception to being ridiculed for culture appropriation without any respect for said culture.
In my opinion though they should have just had the actors be themselves. It was clear from context that they were the reincarnations. There was no need for the alien prosthetics.
I read the abstract which is all I have access to, and it did not suggest that. Further, even if it did, it doesn't make it a theory. It's not even a hypothesis because the question "are pale people pale because of interbreeding with Neanderthals?" wasn't even the question being asked. It's just conjecture.
The reason I'm so aggressive about this is because there is so much pop-science around interbreeding between humans and neanderthals these days, and as a biologist and a professor, I think it's important to be clear about what's actually fully understood and not lest incorrect information become pervasive.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I've never seen the movie (thankfully) only pictures of said person and thought it was painfully dumb.
Seems I got the order wrong, it's the second link:
It's neither proven nor a theory (yet), just something their findings suggest. Doesn't exactly seem all that unlikely, though.
Do you have paint your skin to impersonate somebody like Whitney Houston, Louis Armstrong, or james brown? I mean their unique styles is not recognizable enough?
People dressed up as Psy and I did not see one taped eye.
Winterfang
Banned
Wrap what up? They are not the same person. I don't even understand the point, seems like the same ''other people do it also'' excuse that is scattered in these thread.
……forgetit
Member
This shit is still going on? Dressing up as another race like it's a costume is offensive, no if ands or buts about it. That means blackface, dressing like a native american, or squinting to look like a person of asian decent. It's racist, deal with it.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
The joke..that was it. I've got a drug addict in my family. Funny thing? I don't do drugs! This tea sipping morAAAn just dropped this link and ran, like they have anything to do with one another or cancle each other out.
FullMetalx117
Member
I really must have missed that epic thread when Tropic Thunder came out and Robert Downey Jr. played a black man.
……forgetit
Member
Actually he played a white guy playing a black guy, big difference.
Yeah, it's rubbish anyhow.
Ok, but again, that doesn't make it a theory. It's the precision of your statement I take issue with.
The only thing we can say is that recent studies suggest that non-African humans likely share genes with neanderthals some of which may have overlap with genes regulating skin pigmentation.
That's a rudimentary observation that needs to be more fully developed into a testable hypothesis.
edit:
anyway, this is all too off-topic.
You don't have to, but if you want to look as close as possible to them, yes. When you're painting a portrait of a black person, do you not paint the color of their skin as close as possible to the person's?
The same way some people dress as Psy without taping their eyes, some people dress up as black characters or celebrities without painting their face. The fact that some people do or don't do something doesn't really help reach any conclusion.
EDIT: Not that I think any conclusion can be reached here, I just think there's a distinction between impersonating someone and reducing someone to a single physical characteristic, especially if you exaggerate it. I do find the differences between US and Europe in this regard very interesting and they're pretty obviously due to the whole Jim Crow thing, but I guess this will lead nowhere.
Apologies if someone took offense.
I don't want to start discussing the whole blackface/Zwarte Piet/etc. thing, because as this thread shows, that always leads nowhere.
But I honestly don't get why what you're saying is necessarily true. Sure, if it's done for mockery I can see the point, but where's the big difference to, e.g., cross-dressing? That isn't really universally seen as "sexist" (quite the opposite) and also about a physical feature you can't change.
Why is race seen as having to be universally a hands-off thing (emphasis on "universally")? Yes, you can say "Race becomes a costume", but the opposite to me is like pretending skin colour is either not just a physical feature like any other (which can only be culturally or historically based, and thus, not be universal) or something that actually defines a character, which is exactly the opposite of what should be the goal of anti-racist efforts. Yes, you can impersonate someone else without their skin colour, but isn't that just arbitrarily leaving something out?
NotMyRealName
Banned
They are offensively awful at making white people look Asian at least
About the native American part.... This is probably the most popular costume at Carnival here. Every kid at some point wants to dress like either a cowboy or native American. There's no skin coloring involved, is that really that bad?
Majmun
Member
But people also change their skincolor to cosplay Kratos, The Hulk, Beast and Majin Boo. Nightwolf cosplay is also a thing. But people never complain about them.
Cosplay is such a harmless form of entertainment imo. But maybe that's just me
I only found out it was offensive recently, if even Americans don't know this, I'm guessing most people from other continents have no idea. Afaik they're now used for religious ceremonies and have spiritual meaning.
……forgetit
Member
Because race is, despite some people in this thread thinking otherwise, a touchy subject. Though some may have good intentions, race as a costume has been part of the systematic oppression of minorities since the inception of racism. As a result people of the other race get offended when you do it. Though you may have good intentions, the truth is no one cares what your intentions were. If you dressed as a nazi as a joke it's still offensive, no matter what you were going for.
HuskerDutheDu
Member
The hulk is green though. Come on. There's a clear difference.
Winterfang
Banned
I guess it depends. A white girl wearing a kimono is not racist but whitening their skin and putting a black wig will make it over the top.
Nobody gives Jamiroquai (I know that's the band name, not his) shit for wearing one
I assuming it becomes racist the moment it becomes a caricature. The moment the race itself becomes the reason for the costume.
……forgetit
Member
When there are green, blue and pink people to offend I'll let you know.
So black people equate to fictional beings? Ok
Angelus Errare
Banned
No offense but this is a horrible argument.
Example
The fact that some people call blacks 'stupid niggers' or Hispanics 'stupid spics/wetbacks' while others don't doesn't really help reach any conclusion on if those words are racist.
You don't need an unanimous decision to realize that something is wrong.
That and I always find it funny that by large minorities don't feel the need to paint their face white to imitate white artists/actors/characters and you pretty much always know who they're cosplaying/imitating. But for some strange reason there's an actual argument that many white people just have to paint their faces black lest you be confused on who they're imitating. No that means you're just doing a very shitty job at imitating said artist/character/actor(ess). If being black is the one shining definitive characteristic of said character then firstly, it's an absolute shit character, and secondly that character just isn't for you.
On the subject of imitation, someone link cosplaying while black and I recognize every single character these girls and guys are cosplaying as and they didn't need to paint their faces yellow and tape their eyes back to achieve it.
So on the point of people 'needing' to paint their faces to be close to an artist as possible.
They don't. Your musical performance isn't going to be any better or worse because you painted your face black. They're musical artists, you imitate their onstage presence and you sing their song and anyone will know who that artist is. If people don't know what artist you are when you're on stage and you feel you need to paint your face black; then you're doing an absolute shit job and should quit.
Majmun
Member
People jumping too fast on conclusions is why we can't have nice things.
Tragicomedy
Member
Guys, blackface in the Netherlands isn't racist because all the white people agree it isn't and there are hardly any black people to complain.
Am I doing this right, Netherlands GAF?
Am I doing this right, Netherlands GAF?
On the real: racism is every bit as real and bad in northern Europe as it is here in the USA. Treatment of Arabs throughout most of Europe has been excessively reactionary and negative this past decade.
You jsut said being black is equalivat to being a gamma irradiated creature, a mutant, a cursed soul, and a demon. None of which is real
I really lost it at Majin fucking Buu. A fucking magical pink demon. Sure painting yourself pink to resemble that, is just like painting yourself black . . .
Which is downright depressing.
Cause no one knows what a black person looks like except that specific black character.
I thought Africans were also subject to excessive racism too. Sort of like how Mexicans are viewed in this country as taking all of the jobs. I could be wrong but I remember reading something about this.
And it can be done without black face.
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