StopMakingSense
Member
To be fair, the original job posting was actually for an Associate Editor.
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Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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To be fair, the original job posting was actually for an Associate Editor.
This is a very valid point that I think isn't addressed enough. Giant Bomb isn't really a game site, throwing it in with IGN and Gamespot is wrong.
When you're an entertainment outlet, is it wrong to have one voice? A style/tone that doesn't change?
Do we criticise Top Gear for being Top Gear? People don't care about the cars, it's the presenters. Because, IMO, Giant Bomb is closer to that than Polygon or Kotaku.
Also just, LIKE JUST NOW.
Realized that next week like in 7 days it has been 1 year already.
That makes me very sad
Please some post an awesome GB gif to make me happy again
And the all time best one:
ab.aeterno
Member
The problem is that the bolded isn't communicated at all when you post this:
Who's asking for this? Why does saying "more diversity would be awesome" always become asking to fulfill quotas or having to represent all permutations of people? Why does quota get tossed around in these discussions more than a football at a tailgate party? I don't mean to single you out, but it's literally in the post above this too, and others as well.
Because those other sites employ women, people of color, etc. They already have a more diverse group. It's not always great, but it's something.
I doubt that's what anyone is arguing for, unless you take wanting to include more minorities as coming at the expense of cisgender white males. If I argued for discrimination against that group I'd be fucking over myself.
Not when it's the often the only response to hiring practices. It absolutely carries an implication that there isn't a pool of qualified minorities. I work in IT, and see this all the time. It's a boys club that doesn't want to admit it's a boys club, so arguments like this get made often. To me, it's lost a lot of sincerity as an argument.
Good for you.
I get that that specific comment isn't helpful and doesn't really add to things, but you can't deny that when people make reasonable issues too they get so much shit. (See Zoe Quinn, Rami Ismail, etc.)
HoodWinked
Member
i blame vinny for leaving :3
i just want my 3 hour bombcasts with 100% more vinny
i just want my 3 hour bombcasts with 100% more vinny
why is the onus of changing that on GB though? the thing that irks me is they're being played up as being some sort of "old boys club" even though they (especially Patrick) have been shedding light on these types of issues etc.
even though part of CBSi, they're still quite a small team focusing on very specific type of content - it seems counterproductive to me to try to put them on blast with this shit, especially when they have done more to provide a spotlight for the themes touched in this shitstorm than most others.
I know that's not exactly what you meant but it pisses me off that of all sites THIS is the one that gets the spotlight for supposedly unfair hiring practices.
This is literally the qualification.
ShockingAlberto
Member
For all its faults, Polygon is pretty diverse and they stand proud in front of a lot of hate that comes their way because of it (see: Gone Home review).
Jimmyfenix
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I don't even know how Giant Bomb likes this. I do web design, and every job I've had that's been male dominated (which is most of them, in this industry) was so exhausting and boring to deal with. Sausage parties are the worst.
DangerStepp
Member
What is the Brad Nicholson story? I wasn't around for that.
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/quick-look-the-fancy-pants-adventure/2300-4039/
I think? Not sure, but that's what qlcrew says.
MisterSamMan
Member
I hoped for something that didn't happen so naturally I'd be disappointed, but in no way am I looking down on Dan or Jason because of who they are. They're awesome guys and their appearances on the Bombcast solidified that.
Not to derail, but they actually put interesting in deep articles about the industry, game development, and culture related to gaming.
Except "go fuck yourself" happened first.
No it's not. Not every job hiring should be a crusade. Giant Bomb were lucky to get these guys. Both of them could not have been more perfect for these positions, and I didn't know Jason was white until this news blew up, since he was never in front of the camera before.
This is like if you're casing for a new comedy show, and suddenly Dave Chappelle shows up, and wants the job. You throw the resumes of everyone else in the trash. You don't say, "Well, there are too many black comedians on TV already. We wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to be more diverse."
That one wins for versatility but.... the star wars lego pieces turning into a giraffe still brings me an irrational amount of joy.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I feel like this whole thing is like a game of "whisper down the lane" (I just google translated that cause I have no idea what it's called in english). Some person says something reasonable like "More diversity would be awesome". Then MRAs happen. And then everything get's out of control, and suddenly even the reasonable people react vile to posts not meant to be mean cause they were showered with idiotic tweets. And then everything explodes.
Nothing special, he just didn't really fit in and left. And I don't think GB can afford that right now.
Same! Also I never watch wrestling but I super enjoy listening to other people talking about wrestling.
A lot of what can't be taken into account by those looking from the outside is with Ryan gone and Vinny and Patrick far away, Dan fits the SF crew like a puzzle piece. There are likely hundreds of folks who aren't white men who could fit that bill, but Dan wasn't hired because he was a white dude, he was hired because he's a sure thing.
I think Jeff was looking at stabilising their SF vibe, their business and their subscribers right now. Not later, right this second so they can take a shot on someone who brings something new to the table later.
I don't know if it was the right move, but I have faith in Patrick and while I'm sure he disappointed with another white guy, if he thought Jeff didn't have completely acceptable reasons he wouldn't be with the site still.
The Giant Bomb of today would not have hired Patrick right now either. He was hired to be a journalist and not to jump in with the rest of the crew.
It's a frustrating status quo, but I also genuinely feel it's a temporary one.
All of that is just speculation though.
As for Leigh, the shit she got from the community was over the top and beyond anything that happened in response to any Gearbox guy, 2013 Microsoft dudes in denial or Paul Barnett's defence of Dungeon Keeper Mobile. It was intense.
Garnett Lee did the drunk and obnoxious thing all the time to less shit, Patrick himself, the magnet for haters on the GB community, got less shit for his behavior during that one Rock Band night. Granted there's more than gender at play when considering the backlash she got, she did pick a direct fight with the community from the start of her second appearance, but I really think it'd be foolish to pretend her gender didn't play a large part in the scale of the backlash.
It and the subsequent word of mouth about Leigh's behavior on that E3 cast went beyond the bubble, and that really sucks for her. I remember a developer guest telling the story on Giant Bomb in which he recognised her name from the 775 thing and her dismay that she can't leave that behind as she gets it everywhere.
Whatever you think of her work, or even her tweets, she's still paying for that one night years later and that's because of the vehement reaction here and from the Giant Bomb community at the time.
Yes, she shouldn't be taking pot shots at Giant Bomb, but it's not like the GB community at large, anywhere they cluster, got over it either or let her live it down.
I think Jeff was looking at stabilising their SF vibe, their business and their subscribers right now. Not later, right this second so they can take a shot on someone who brings something new to the table later.
I don't know if it was the right move, but I have faith in Patrick and while I'm sure he disappointed with another white guy, if he thought Jeff didn't have completely acceptable reasons he wouldn't be with the site still.
The Giant Bomb of today would not have hired Patrick right now either. He was hired to be a journalist and not to jump in with the rest of the crew.
It's a frustrating status quo, but I also genuinely feel it's a temporary one.
All of that is just speculation though.
As for Leigh, the shit she got from the community was over the top and beyond anything that happened in response to any Gearbox guy, 2013 Microsoft dudes in denial or Paul Barnett's defence of Dungeon Keeper Mobile. It was intense.
Garnett Lee did the drunk and obnoxious thing all the time to less shit, Patrick himself, the magnet for haters on the GB community, got less shit for his behavior during that one Rock Band night. Granted there's more than gender at play when considering the backlash she got, she did pick a direct fight with the community from the start of her second appearance, but I really think it'd be foolish to pretend her gender didn't play a large part in the scale of the backlash.
It and the subsequent word of mouth about Leigh's behavior on that E3 cast went beyond the bubble, and that really sucks for her. I remember a developer guest telling the story on Giant Bomb in which he recognised her name from the 775 thing and her dismay that she can't leave that behind as she gets it everywhere.
Whatever you think of her work, or even her tweets, she's still paying for that one night years later and that's because of the vehement reaction here and from the Giant Bomb community at the time.
Yes, she shouldn't be taking pot shots at Giant Bomb, but it's not like the GB community at large, anywhere they cluster, got over it either or let her live it down.
yeah that answer is super lame, however that doesn't really justify lots of dudes going bat-shit crazy with misogynistic remarks
I really hope that's not what they think of when talking about the GB community.I just want to point out, this shit right here:
Is why some people might become agitated and be a little harsh in their comments.
The Iron Yuppie
Member
It's a shitty situation but the whole premise of their site is it is personality based and their preferred medium is now video either live or Quick Looks. Dan has already proved he can deliver that content from his time at GI.
I'm all for a different voice in GB's coverage or any site's coverage but games journalism is a small industry and getting smaller; if someone wanting to break into the industry hasn't by now they probably aren't going to. And "Senior Editor" at Giant Bomb is not a position someone is going to "break into" the industry.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Closest english equivalent would be "a game of telephone."
Jimmyfenix
Member
Take that USA!
Haha yes, "go fuck yourself" was definitely the first stone that was thrown.
Because there isn't a history of this abuse happening for a very long time.
The onus isn't on GB, it's on everyone. GB just has a very vocal, passionate community, many of whom (including myself) feel quite passionate about these issues. We need to call everyone out in terms of asking about this stuff. Reading Patrick's introspective on the issues with his list of contacts was super refreshing, because it looked at a lot of the issues that I feel are problematic and made good points, and I really hope we see some more diversity coming out of that thinking.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I just want to point out, this shit right here:
Is why some people might become agitated and be a little harsh in their comments.
This is why Twitter might the worst thing that ever happened to the internet.
Hate to break it to ya but people criticize Top Gear all the time. Usually worse than Giantbomb with accusation ranging from racism, to misogyny, to general right wing stupidity. I don't think these personality driven shows require a white dude. Sitting around talking frankly, playing shit games and laughing about it is gender neutral. It's unfortunate what happened with Leigh. She has the personality for Giantbomb. At least the Giantbomb I idealize.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
There aren't too many black comedians on TV already, so this analogy doesn't work at all. Besides, Comedy Central just added two more women-lead comedies to their fall lineup to go with the returning Amy Schumer show and Broad City, so even Comedy Central is very aware of their bro-ing down in recent years.
2011!? Oh god, I'm feeling old.
HoodWinked
Member
i think conventional game sites this is just easier in general to do. gb is a personality driven site generally people become friends with similar people and the friendships actually have to be legitimate (yes gender can play a role without being discriminatory). its one of gbs greatest strengths but now can be seen as a weakness as well.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Do I have to communicate my feelings on the topic in every post? I feel that what I wrote in the post you quoted was perfectly legitimate in context. It was talking about a tweet from a woman who more-or-less stated that there is no scenario where Giant Bomb hiring more white men would be acceptable.
I think many people expected way too much out of this job opening thing. The open application really seems like it was just something they had to do since they're owned by CBSi. I'd be shocked if they didn't have a general idea of who they wanted to hire prior to the position being posted. Giant Bomb has always been a small-scale operation deeply invested in personality. These guys aren't just co-workers, they're friends, that's how they started the site. If this was one of the more cooperate game sites like Gamespot, IGN, or whoever, and they just went out and hired 10 white dudes, then okay, let's have a discussion. But because this is all happening around Giant Bomb, I have a hard time taking that discussion as seriously. I understand the issue, there's a lot of white dudes in video games and the games media and times are changing, so people are upset Giant Bomb didn't hire someone outside of the norm. But the fact is, Giant Bomb has always been the site that's about fun driven through the interactions of people who all know each other and their personalities well, above all else. Sure, Patrick brings a more intellectual element to the site with his articles, but the reason why many people flocked to Giant Bomb is because they enjoyed the dumb ridiculous shit that other sites were too "professional" to do. The site where they shake the Wii baby, shoot arrows in their office, and flush pies down the toilet is hardly the vehicle for all this stuff.
That said, though I don't agree with the shit Giant Bomb has been getting, the people who the staff has denounced through the day are scumfucks, that should go without saying.
That said, though I don't agree with the shit Giant Bomb has been getting, the people who the staff has denounced through the day are scumfucks, that should go without saying.
The slightly offensive "Chinese Whispers" here in the uk...
DangerStepp
Member
It would be very bold of TNT to reintroduce the feature "Movies For Guys Who Like Movies" at this point in time.
Disguised as a blessing of quick communication, that's what makes it so insidious.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I've alluded to this earlier today, but the GB community should use this as a time to change, mature, and excise its demons. It helps literally no one to go "No, no, this isn't our community, don't lump us in with them." For better or worse, yeah, this is totally your community, even if they're just lurkers or non-prolific or just fans. They're people that are rushing to the defense of people that don't need defending to attack people who do.
I feel like it's incredibly important that people understand that attacks on Giant Bomb are not things anyone needs to leap in front of like Kevin Costner in front of Whitney Houston. They don't need retaliation. They don't need posting screencaps of tweets with the implied "Hey, guys, agree with me that this person is terrible!" to be hashed out for pages.
There's toxic parts of the community that should be identified and excised, not ignored and hypothetically distanced until people forget. But more than that, people need to emotionally disinvest from the website if it's causing them to react like their family is under siege.
I feel like it's incredibly important that people understand that attacks on Giant Bomb are not things anyone needs to leap in front of like Kevin Costner in front of Whitney Houston. They don't need retaliation. They don't need posting screencaps of tweets with the implied "Hey, guys, agree with me that this person is terrible!" to be hashed out for pages.
There's toxic parts of the community that should be identified and excised, not ignored and hypothetically distanced until people forget. But more than that, people need to emotionally disinvest from the website if it's causing them to react like their family is under siege.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Anyone have Dan's Polygon avatar saved?
Yes absolutely but if they are not applying than how can it change. If you don't apply for a job but than call foul when its not who they wanted to get the job.
Ego much? I mean Leigh finds really interesting topics to write about but she can hit some lows.
This is her Achilles' heel.
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