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[TTUVAPOR]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

This guy gets it.

 

[Bolts-n-Rays1109]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

Bravo, sir.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

Can you, like, run 343?

 

[tootsi666]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

You are amazing

 

[Sephzilla]

The only issue I have with players spawning with a mid ranged scoped weapon is how good the actual weapon is. I'm perfectly okay with players spawning with a weapon like this if the weapon isn't just clearly superior to a large chunk of weapons in the game. If, for example, the BR or DMR were a little less accurate I would be perfectly okay with it being a spawning weapon, assuming there was another weapon in the game that functioned similarly yet had its own pros/cons that made it different and uniquely effective from the starting weapon. Because then it becomes an effective mid range weapon that can fight off snipers and hold its own at mid range, but isn't so amazingly great that it discourages finding better weapons on the map or straight up becomes a replacement sniper rifle on some maps.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm struggling to put into words exactly what I'm trying to say.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

The only issue I have with players spawning with a mid ranged scoped weapon is how good the actual weapon is. I'm perfectly okay with players spawning with a weapon like this if the weapon isn't just clearly superior to most other weapons in the game. If, for example, the BR or DMR were a little less accurate I would be perfectly okay with it being a spawning weapon. Because then it becomes an effective mid range weapon that can fight off snipers and hold its own at mid range, but isn't so amazingly great that it discourages finding better weapons on the map or straight up becomes a replacement sniper rifle on some maps. I hope I'm making sense.

I think the perfect spawning weapon would be Halo 3:ODST's pistol.

Fair range, fair damage, and not too OP like the Halo CE pistol, but its still a useful weapon in its own right.

Plus spawning with just a trusty pistol is a classic arena shooter trope that Ive always been fond of.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think the perfect spawnign weapon would be Halo 3:ODST's pistol. faor range, fair damage, and not too OP like the Halo CE pistol, but it still a useful weapon in its own right.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think part of the reason I didn't care for BR spawns in Halo 2 was because the BR in that game was effectively the best weapon in the game, and the only true alternative to that gun was the Carbine which didn't appear on maps nearly as much and had much more limited ammo.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think part of the reason I didn't care for BR spawns in Halo 2 was because the BR in that game was effectively the best weapon in the game, and the only true alternative to that gun was the Carbine which didn't appear on maps nearly as much and had much more limited ammo.

Yeah totally. Especially since it was the weapon with all the button combo tricks and such.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

The only issue I have with players spawning with a mid ranged scoped weapon is how good the actual weapon is. I'm perfectly okay with players spawning with a weapon like this if the weapon isn't just clearly superior to a large chunk of weapons in the game. If, for example, the BR or DMR were a little less accurate I would be perfectly okay with it being a spawning weapon, assuming there was another weapon in the game that functioned similarly yet had its own pros/cons that made it different and uniquely effective from the starting weapon. Because then it becomes an effective mid range weapon that can fight off snipers and hold its own at mid range, but isn't so amazingly great that it discourages finding better weapons on the map or straight up becomes a replacement sniper rifle on some maps.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm struggling to put into words exactly what I'm trying to say.

This is why I fucking hate DMR spawns. I have no problem with BR spawns in previous games, however.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The only issue I have with players spawning with a mid ranged scoped weapon is how good the actual weapon is. I'm perfectly okay with players spawning with a weapon like this if the weapon isn't just clearly superior to a large chunk of weapons in the game. If, for example, the BR or DMR were a little less accurate I would be perfectly okay with it being a spawning weapon. Because then it becomes an effective mid range weapon that can fight off snipers and hold its own at mid range, but isn't so amazingly great that it discourages finding better weapons on the map or straight up becomes a replacement sniper rifle on some maps.

I hope I'm making sense, I'm struggling to put into words exactly what I'm trying to say.

definitely agree with you here. in Reach especially you really didnt need to use anything but the DMR in some maps.

also interesting, to piggy back off of the arena shooter thread, more unique autos would create a better 'arena' sandbox and promote movement to their spawns, especially since they'd be spawning quicker than power weapons.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yeah totally. Especially since it was the weapon with all the button combo tricks and such.

I think Halo 2 needed a DMR like weapon that could be slightly inferior/different to the Battle Rifle and Carbine, but could serve as a respectable starting weapon. Ultimately I think that's what the CE Pistol was meant to be, obviously.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Map control and power weapons are a huge part of the game. Lets have smg/assault rifle starts and have em fight for BRs sniper, rockets etc. That's what made halo 2 great.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

Every weapon in H1 had a purpose


The Pistol could challenge the sniper, the AR was great at draining shields, etc.


Also here's this video that is really good

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4K1gR0q6I

Especially the last segment

 

[Wurdfurd]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

Seriously, 343i needs to hire you to teach them MP.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

Map control and power weapons are a huge part of the game. Lets have smg/assault rifle starts and have em fight for BRs sniper, rockets etc. That's what made halo 2 great.

Utility weapons make halo great. If you spawn and have no chance to challenge the opposition who has better on map weapons because your starting weapon is bad than that's no good.

 

[Sephzilla]

also interesting, to piggy back off of the arena shooter thread, more unique autos would create a better 'arena' sandbox and promote movement to their spawns, especially since they'd be spawning quicker than power weapons.

The only truly unique automatic weapon in Halo seems to be the Needler IMO, and they've been trying to perfect that weapon for 5 games.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

I think Halo 2 needed a DMR like weapon that could be slightly inferior/different to the Battle Rifle and Carbine, but could serve as a respectable starting weapon. Ultimately I think that's what the CE Pistol was meant to be, obviously.

DMR is basically a 5 shot sniper, which is neat in concept but, like the BR in 2 and Pistol in CE, was basically the only weapon worth using in Reach. so a nerfed version of that maybe.

 

[jem0208]

This is why I fucking hate DMR spawns. I have no problem with BR spawns in previous games, however.

I think it would be quite cool if they were to buff the DMR a bit and make it a power weapon. Maybe a 3 shot shield pop and a kill if the 3rd is a headshot. 4 body shots for a kill without a headshot. Maybe lower the rate of fire to make it less useable at close range or make the zoom a bit larger with low aim assist hip fire like the sniper.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

DMR is basically a 5 shot sniper, which is neat in concept but, like the BR in 2 and Pistol in CE, was basically the only weapon worth using in Reach. so a nerfed version of that maybe.

Every weapon in CE was useful (except the needler)

 

[Sephzilla]

DMR is basically a 5 shot sniper, which is neat in concept but, like the BR in 2 and Pistol in CE, was basically the only weapon worth using in Reach. so a nerfed version of that maybe.

I think a shot shot DMR like weapon would be a fine starting weapon, assuming it has the same fire rate as a BR/DMR. Still powerful enough to be effective, especially if there's more than one of you shooting at the same target, and can distract or scare off a sniper or another scoped player.

Every weapon in CE was useful (except the needler)

Halo 1 still has my favorite version of the Shotgun. No other shottie in the franchise compares.

I'd argue that the Plasma Rifle was maybe as useless as the Needler, to be honest. But yeah every other weapon had a good role in that game. Although I'd say the pistol could have used a bit of a nerf and the Assault Rifle could have used a slight buff.

I never understood why Bungie went so anit-pistol after Halo CE. If they thought it was too good they could have just increased the kill time some, but otherwise kept it the same.. That would have even left room for BR pickups on the map that had a faster kill time then the pistol.There was no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater and go so far in the other direction with the SMG/Assault Rifle starts.

The Reach pistol start was a step in the right direction, but the clip was way too small.

They went too far in the opposite direction, but the logic was that they didn't want another single weapon dominating the entire game as much as the Halo 1 pistol dominated that game. Because as much as all of us love Halo 1 I think we can all agree that the original Pistol was simply way too good at too many things.

 

[GloveSlap]

I never understood why Bungie went so anit-pistol after Halo CE. If they thought it was too good they could have just increased the kill time some, but otherwise kept it the same.. That would have even left room for BR pickups on the map that had a faster kill time then the pistol.There was no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater and go so far in the other direction with the SMG/Assault Rifle starts.

The Reach pistol start was a step in the right direction, but the clip was way too small.

 

[Protagonist Jake]

So can we put Zoba's post in the OP or something?

In all seriousness, Frankie NEEDS to see that post.

Every weapon in CE was useful (except the needler)

Yeah but the Pistol couldve used a bit of a nerf.

 

[dB Viper]

Just give me separate playlists for each game plus a ranking system like Halo 2 and I'll be one happy camper. Oh, and separate out Ranked vs Social, and no Join in Progress!

 

[Wurdfurd]

So can we put Zoba's post in the OP or something?

In all seriousness, Frankie NEEDS to see that post.

Good call, this should be in the OP.

 

[Sephzilla]

So can we put Zoba's post in the OP or something?

In all seriousness, Frankie NEEDS to see that post.

/Signed

 

[a916]

Your issues lie with a fundamental problem Halo hasn't yet addressed since its inception, but starting players with SMGs/ARs would be going backwards.

Players should never spawn without a mid-ranged, headshot capable weapon that has a scope. They need to be able to assist teammates from range, ping snipers watching their spawns, and quickly jump back into the fight. The need to pick up a BR off of the map slows the game down and creates a myriad of other problems regardless of the skill of the teams.

But the fault lies in the way the sandbox treats automatic weapons. These are made to be entry-level spray-and-pray weapons that are easy to get kills with, and that's a big part of the problem. By design, they end up being vastly inferior to the precision weapons. IMO, it should be the opposite. Autos that are placed on the map should have an important and relevant advantage over the other weapons. ARs would have big magazines and give the player better camoflauge; Plasma Rifles would stun players; Brute/Forerunner weapons would leave sustained damage or do more damage when you have an overshield, and so on. By making them powerful, giving them unique traits, and reducing their aim assist and stability, they'll be desirable and take skill to use.

This way, we'd give players a capable utility weapon off of spawn - one that can still outpace these automatics and support you throughout the entire game if you so choose - and then we'd place competent autos on the map and treat them like mid-tier weapons, instead of something you just throw away when you find a BR. If you're going to pick up Camo, maybe you'd go pick up the AR for the increased camoflauge. If you've picked up Overshield, maybe you'll dual wield spikers to make use of those perks.

IMO, this increases the meta game, broadens the sandbox, and doesn't handicap people off of their spawn. The best part is, this was already in the game to an extent. The AR made your camo activate faster in Halo CE. CE's Plasma Rifle also had plasma stun, and Brute weapons did extra melee damage in Halo 3.

This is a very well thought out post. Fully agree. You even thought about the ramifications of your changes... wow.

 

[Izayoi]

Please tell me the people wanting SMG starts are being sarcastic. Have we completely forgotten? Coagulation, CTF, SMG starts... Final destination.

 

[Sephzilla]

Please tell me the people wanting SMG starts are being sarcastic. Have we completely forgotten? Coagulation, CTF, SMG starts... Final destination.

This is one of the instances where SMG spawns were awful. But honestly, full perspective needs to be taken here. If I remember right almost all of the player spawns in Coag were outdoors away from the base where all of the BRs and general safety were. The problem here wasn't necessarily the SMG starts but more the fact that all of the player spawns were insanely unsafe and you rarely, if ever, actually spawned in the base were you could have temporary safety and stock up on a few weapons.

Other larger maps like Headlong and Waterworks had smarter spawns, and as a result those maps had less spawn slaughters compared to Coag even with SMG starts.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So can we put Zoba's post in the OP or something?

In all seriousness, Frankie NEEDS to see that post.

Thirded, or whatever number we're up to now.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Sephzilla,

Serious question, have you ever played Quake Live or Quake 3?

 

[Sephzilla]

Sephzilla,

Serious question, have you ever played Quake Live or Quake 3?

Honest answer, I haven't played them nearly enough to be able to discuss them without feeling like I'm the dumbest person in the room. Just curious, why do you ask?

Spoiler

Why do I have a feeling I'm about to be shamed for not playing much Quake?

 

[kittens]

This is one of the instances where SMG spawns were awful. But honestly, full perspective needs to be taken here. If I remember right almost all of the player spawns in Coag were outdoors away from the base where all of the BRs and general safety were. The problem here wasn't necessarily the SMG starts but more the fact that all of the player spawns were insanely unsafe and you rarely, if ever, actually spawned in the base were you could have temporary safety and stock up on a few weapons.

Other larger maps like Headlong and Waterworks had smarter spawns, and as a result those maps had less spawn slaughters compared to Coag even with SMG starts.

That sounds like two totally separate issues to me. Interconnected, of course, but separate.

1. The design sensibility of SMG starts.
2. The design sensibility of Coagulation.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

-snip-

Please read this thread/discussion I created a while back. What you're saying about the Pistol and having no reason to pick up other weapons is incorrect.

Why would you want to pick up a Plasma Rifle in CE instead of holding your Pistol? Why would you ever drop your Pistol over keeping an AR in CE? These questions are answered in that thread; some great discussion.

 

[Sephzilla]

That sounds like two totally separate issues to me. Interconnected, of course, but separate.

1. The design sensibility of SMG starts.
2. The design sensibility of Coagulation.

Yeah. I agree that SMG starts aren't the most optimal, but in Halo 2's case its either you start with a kind of bad weapon (SMG) or start with the best all around weapon in the game (BR) because there's no real intermediate weapon between the two. And yeah, Coag's spawn locations were an issue on its own. Even with BR spawns, games on Coag could quickly turn into a spawn slaughter.

Please read this thread/discussion I created a while back. What you're saying about the Pistol and having no reason to pick up other weapons is incorrect.

Why would you want to pick up a Plasma Rifle in CE instead of holding your Pistol? Why would you ever drop your Pistol over keeping an AR in CE? These questions are answered in that thread; some great discussion.

Will do when I'm home from work! Thank you sir!

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Yeah. I agree that SMG starts aren't the most optimal, but in Halo 2's case its either you start with a kind of bad weapon (SMG) or start with the best all around weapon in the game (BR) because there's no real intermediate weapon between the two. And yeah, Coag's spawn locations were an issue on its own. Even with BR spawns, games on Coag could quickly turn into a spawn slaughter.

I'd attribute that as being a problem with the rest of the sandbox over a problem with spawning with a BR. As others have mentioned, CE had plasma stun (slowed down players) when using the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol. By giving weapons unique traits, you increase its viability within the sandbox and allow for roles/situations that it could dominate the utility weapon (Pistol, BR, DMR).

Will do when I'm home from work! Thank you sir!

Nice :]

 

[Sephzilla]

I'd attribute that as being a problem with the rest of the sandbox over a problem with spawning with a BR. As others have mentioned, CE had plasma stun (slowed down players) when using the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol. By giving weapons unique traits, you increase its viability within the sandbox and allow for roles/situations that it could dominate the utility weapon (Pistol, BR, DMR)

I'm probably just forgetting this but I thought the plasma stun was just the Plasma Pistol? Maybe I'm just forgetting the PR had it

Spoiler

because I never used it

.

I'll just throw this in for the sake of discussion - my friends and I had a Halo LAN a few weeks back where we jumped from game to game. The newer Halo titles feel like vastly different, and I'd argue inferior, games compared to 1 and 2.

 

[mcfrank]

I agree with everything Zoba said, but I feel like in some ways Bungie backed into that balance by accident. Keep in mind, with default settings, the weapon you spawned with on a number of maps was the Plasma Pistol. They have never intentionally created the same balance that they accidentally created with "overpowered"(lol) pistol.

 

[Sephzilla]

Even though there clearly are situations where you can drop the pistol, I still say the pistol was an overpowered weapon though and I'll argue that to the end of time. It was simply too viable for too many situations.

 

[mcfrank]

Even though there clearly are situations where you can drop the pistol, I still say the pistol was an overpowered weapon though and I'll argue that to the end of time. It was simply too viable for too many situations.

And everyone had one, which made it perfect.

 

[kittens]

I'll just throw this in for the sake of discussion - my friends and I had a Halo LAN a few weeks back where we jumped from game to game. The newer Halo titles feel like vastly different, and I'd argue inferior, games compared to 1 and 2.

Nice! I really love LANing Halo 3, personally. I prefer the Halo 2 and 3 style sanbox over the Halo CE sandbox, and I prefer the lower aim assist of Halo 3. The movement speed is terrible, but can thankfully be bumped up in custom games. If only all the Halo 2 maps were available in Halo 3. :-(

But really, LANing any Halo game is a blast. I'm eagerly awaiting LAN details for the Master Chief Collection.

 

[Sephzilla]

And everyone had one, which made it perfect.

I'd agree with you if the Pistol was a tad less powerful.

Kind of on that topic, I remember lurking in the Halo 2 forums (ugh) the first month after Halo 2 was released. The delicious tears of the people who were way too dependent on the Halo 1 pistol to carry them to first place was something I'll never forget.

Nice! I really love LANing Halo 3, personally. I prefer the Halo 2 and 3 style sanbox over the Halo CE sandbox, and I prefer the lower aim assist of Halo 3. The movement speed is terrible, but can thankfully be bumped up in custom games. If only all the Halo 2 maps were available in Halo 3. :-(

But really, LANing any Halo game is a blast. I'm eagerly awaiting LAN details for the Master Chief Collection.

I really don't know which game I prefer more, 1 or 2. I love the maps in both 1 and 2 equally (Sidewinder > Blood Gulch), but I think I love Halo 1's more cartoony art style a bit more.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

The pistol was perfectly fine.

 

[BeamImpact]

Every weapon in H1 had a purpose
Also here's this video that is really good

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4K1gR0q6I

Especially the last segment

great video indeed, one of the reason for why im looking forward to Halo CE in MCC the most
lets just hope the aim assisstant will be small, i want a competitive game where the better aimer wins rather than an the one that manages to swipe over the opponent first for magnetism as in the other titles :/

 

[Twilight Gap]

Seriously, 343i needs to hire you to teach them MP.

lol appreciate you guys agreeing with me, but i dont want to say it's the way to design the game. There are several potential routes to revitalize the weapon (and vehicle) sandbox - many of which would build off of existing concepts - and they have all the capable hands there to balance it. They just need to consistent in their approach. Max Hoberman and Dan Ayoub for example have already demonstrated a deep understanding of the game's innerworkings, so im optimistic about where 343 might take the game given a strong and rooted direction.

If there's one thing i could influence them in though, it'd be to make use of the Halo universe for their maps. Just as combat may have stagnated in recent titles, i feel like the majority of the maps have become brown, abandoned research facilities. There's a ton of untapped geometry and design in the Covenant, Forerunner and even human palette and I'd love to see them expand upon that. Some of the Spartan Ops missions in H4 were a great start. Throw a lightbridge on the map and have players fight for control of the switch, or make a large vehicle map where players can ramp through Covenant Scarabs or Phantoms in the air. Im hoping the Xbox One gives them the power to do some more inspired things in every part of the game.

 

[kittens]

Just as combat may have stagnated in recent titles, i feel like the majority of the maps have become brown, abandoned research facilities.

SERIOUSLY. Halo 4 was so bad in this regard.

 

[Poodlestrike]

lol appreciate you guys agreeing with me, but i dont want to say it's the way to design the game. There are several potential routes to revitalize the weapon (and vehicle) sandbox - many of which would build off of existing concepts - and they have all the capable hands there to balance it. They just need to consistent in their approach. Max Hoberman and Dan Ayoub for example have already demonstrated a deep understanding of the game's innerworkings, so im optimistic about where 343 might take the game given a strong and rooted direction.

If there's one thing i could influence them in though, it'd be to make use of the Halo universe for their maps. Just as combat may have stagnated in recent titles, i feel like the majority of the maps have become brown, abandoned research facilities. There's a ton of untapped geometry and design in the Covenant, Forerunner and even human palette and I'd love to see them expand upon that. Some of the Spartan Ops missions in H4 were a great start. Throw a lightbridge on the map and have players fight for control of the switch, or make a large vehicle map where players can ramp through Covenant Scarabs or Phantoms in the air. Im hoping the Xbox One gives them the power to do some more inspired things in every part of the game.

Preach. There was a video I saw a while back where some guy modded H2V to include an Assault game type with playable Scarabs on Sandbox; the goal was to deposit your bomb in the enemy scarab, and holy crap it looked fun. Stuff like that in the main game would be amazing.

Plus, the lack of AAs means they don't have to design maps around the Jetpack any more. Yay!

 

[wwm0nkey]

#HireZoba

 

[Protagonist Jake]

#HireZoba

-

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Honest answer, I haven't played them nearly enough to be able to discuss them without feeling like I'm the dumbest person in the room. Just curious, why do you ask?

Spoiler

Why do I have a feeling I'm about to be shamed for not playing much Quake?

I'm not shaming you for anything, we just both disagree respectfully on the starting weapons issue in Halo games.

I did wrote a piece pages back in this very thread about this subject.

In essence, I truly believe Halo Combat Evolved draws many similarities from Quake 3. The core concept of spawning with a utility weapon that allows you to defend yourself from all ranges at each time you respawn, it creates fair play.

While some will disagree with me, the starting MG in Quake 3 allows you to deal damage at all ranges, it even has a zoom feature on it. By no means am I calling it the god weapon, it's not, but it's a balanced starting weapon. It's fully automatic, it can deal damage at all ranges. For example, if you and I were battling in Quake 3, and I deal mass damage to you but you manage to kill me, I've now lost all my weapons I picked up, but I still respawn with the MG, and if I happen to catch you trying to regain health, armor, etc...I can still shoot you with the MG off my respawn and legitimately kill you no matter what weapons you're holding. It's basically a weapon that allows you to defend yourself at all ranges till you pick up better situational weapons such as the rockets, rail gun, lighting gun, shotgun, grenade launcher, etc.

Same concept applies in Halo. In Halo CE's case, we spawned with a scoped semi-auto pistol and a full auto assault rifle. So at each respawn, you had an arsenal that allowed you to defend yourself from all ranges. If you spawned out in the open, and you're already being sniped at, you could at least scope with your pistol and return some fire to ping the sniper out of scope or to distract him while you sought cover, weapons, etc. You simply cannot do that with the SMG starts in Halo 2, nor could you really do it with assault rifle/pistol starts in Halo 3.

If you have the chance to play some Quake Live (it's free), I highly suggest you give it some time before MCC comes out this fall. It will help give perspective.

In my opinion, Halo CE was our console version of Quake. We could never get the actual Quake 3 arena game that Quake Live is today onto our consoles, so Halo was always that next game in line that gave the same core gameplay, timing powerups, timing power weapons, map control, etc.

 

[GringoSuave89]

lol appreciate you guys agreeing with me, but i dont want to say it's the way to design the game. There are several potential routes to revitalize the weapon (and vehicle) sandbox - many of which would build off of existing concepts - and they have all the capable hands there to balance it. They just need to consistent in their approach. Max Hoberman and Dan Ayoub for example have already demonstrated a deep understanding of the game's innerworkings, so im optimistic about where 343 might take the game given a strong and rooted direction.

If there's one thing i could influence them in though, it'd be to make use of the Halo universe for their maps. Just as combat may have stagnated in recent titles, i feel like the majority of the maps have become brown, abandoned research facilities. There's a ton of untapped geometry and design in the Covenant, Forerunner and even human palette and I'd love to see them expand upon that. Some of the Spartan Ops missions in H4 were a great start. Throw a lightbridge on the map and have players fight for control of the switch, or make a large vehicle map where players can ramp through Covenant Scarabs or Phantoms in the air. Im hoping the Xbox One gives them the power to do some more inspired things in every part of the game.

Abandoned Insurrectionist base, Covenant ship that's been "beached", ONI Bravo 6 courtyard. Hell, the remains of Corbulo Academy if you want more tie ins. So much potential.

Zoba, you are kicking some ass on here!