9 clueless things white people say when confronted with racism

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Check your privilege was a harmless and basic statement until racists (and other offended who misunderstood it) declared it as "toxic" to discussion. Much like how feminism sets off alarm bells in the heads of sexists despite the lack of any ill will. Whatever other new way it's phrased to make you happy will eventually become vilified too.

I say we stop making concessions to the racism deniers who demand that any opposing group be a certain level of nice and polite before they're willing to listen.

People who say the statement check your privilege is toxic probably don't even accept the concept of privilege. None the less it's a good way in derailing the discussion and making it about them and their feelings.
 
I've experienced more racism than probably 99% of the people that's posted in this thread. Another reason this is a dumb thing to say is people assume because someone disagrees there has to be elevated levels of privilege involved.

The premise of "check your privilege" is not that the speaker has never experienced hardship or discrimination or even racism, but rather that the argument they are making reflects their own experiences and ignores the way in which the experiences of others differ, resulting in a less empathetic and more judgmental approach to the subject. Now, someone might very well be incorrect, but they're not incorrect because you experienced racism.

As an example here we might imagine that a middle-class African-American argues that there is not a racial component to urban poverty in America, because their family worked hard and made it and they're working hard for everything they earn, so poverty much result from laziness or lack of effort rather than structural concerns. There's no doubt that the speaker has experienced racism both latent (for example, difficulty getting a job interview because of an African-American sounding name) and manifest, in terms of slurs or violence. But they are also blind to the way that the opportunities afforded to their parents are not universal, that the opportunities they gain from the upward mobility their parents earned are not available to all their peers, and that many policies designed to help the middle class do so at the expense of the poor, a result which is racialized in impact even if not in intent.

Edit: To add, asking someone to examine their privilege is not done with the idea that they ought to get weepy or personally apologize. It's not a normative statement. It's a cognitive statement. It's examine the way in which their insight is limited and near-sighted on the basis of their experience. In the same way that if you observed a custom from a foreign culture and it seemed "strange" to you, that would not imply that you're an asshole for thinking so, but rather that it seems strange largely because you grew up in a different culture, and that shapes your ability to think of things as normal or strange.
 
I'm sorry mate, but my family was forcefully evicted out of our home because of our race. We could only be employed in a handful of jobs, because of our race. We were not allowed to pursue and education apart from teaching or nursing, because of our race. Couldn't play sport with whites, cant ride the white bus, cant go into a white neighborhood. etc. I watched my friends being beaten up by cops for being black at the wrong time of day. I grew up in apartheid, so I definitely have checked my privilege mate.

None of which means you know a damn thing about anyone else on here. I didn't ask you to check your privilege, I pointed out you don't know who else is here, or what they've been through. And if you can't have this conversation without being condescending to other posters, you should probably not post.

If you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.
 
I'm sorry mate, but my family was forcefully evicted out of our home because of our race. We could only be employed in a handful of jobs, because of our race. We were not allowed to pursue any education apart from teaching or nursing, because of our race. Couldn't play sport with whites, cant ride the white bus, cant go into a white neighborhood. etc. I watched my friends being beaten up by cops for being black at the wrong time of day. I grew up in apartheid, so I definitely have checked my privilege mate.
Riiiiiight
 
I 'love' when I hear people justify racist shit by saying "but that famous comedian does it."

Yea, and?

It's just a stupid 'the market has spoken' argument.

Famous comedians push the envelope, and some of the most popular ones espouse blatantly racially offensive opinions. I'm not going to name names because I don't want to derail the thread, but comedians deal with generalizations in everything they talk about. It's okay in some contexts, it's not okay in others. Jimmy the Greek lost his career for saying the same thing that Chris Rock said on an HBO special to rousing applause. That alone makes me understand why some white people just feel compelled to evade any discussion on race... it's definitely a minefield to navigate as someone who is perceived to be privileged, or in other words incapable of empathy due to your background.
 
I'm sorry mate, but my family was forcefully evicted out of our home because of our race. We could only be employed in a handful of jobs, because of our race. We were not allowed to pursue any education apart from teaching or nursing, because of our race. Couldn't play sport with whites, cant ride the white bus, cant go into a white neighborhood. etc. I watched my friends being beaten up by cops for being black at the wrong time of day. I grew up in apartheid, so I definitely have checked my privilege mate.

Also you miss the point of me saying that. It's the exact same thing as saying 'check your privilege' it's a nonsense statement

And here I thought you were white.
 
So this assumes all white people are racists then? Because that's a list of 9 racist ass things to say when confronted with racism.

I've been told something I've said was wrong or completely based on insensitive stereotypes. My response was simply "I'm sorry, I had no idea. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, it won't happen again.".

Fuck that pride garbage. If you do wrong, correct yourself.
 
Then again this isn't the first time you've argued something suspicious.
I come from a very different background to you and the typical gaffer, so yes my perspective is different. It's awful nice of you to try and cast doubt upon my thoughts by throwing in the word suspicious though
 
The premise of "check your privilege" is not that the speaker has never experienced hardship or discrimination or even racism, but rather that the argument they are making reflects their own experiences and ignores the way in which the experiences of others differ, resulting in a less empathetic and more judgmental approach to the subject. Now, someone might very well be incorrect, but they're not incorrect because you experienced racism.

As an example here we might imagine that a middle-class African-American argues that there is not a racial component to urban poverty in America, because their family worked hard and made it and they're working hard for everything they earn, so poverty much result from laziness or lack of effort rather than structural concerns. There's no doubt that the speaker has experienced racism both latent (for example, difficulty getting a job interview because of an African-American sounding name) and manifest, in terms of slurs or violence. But they are also blind to the way that the opportunities afforded to their parents are not universal, that the opportunities they gain from the upward mobility their parents earned are not available to all their peers, and that many policies designed to help the middle class do so at the expense of the poor, a result which is racialized in impact even if not in intent.

A useful response to this would be to then explain the structural issues that cause the higher poverty rates rather than assume the middle class person in question is arguing from a position of ignorance. How is someone supposed to respond to "check your ignorance"?
 
None of which means you know a damn thing about anyone else on here. I didn't ask you to check your privilege, I pointed out you don't know who else is here, or what they've been through. And if you can't have this conversation without being condescending to other posters, you should probably not post.

If you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.
I'm, not going to PM you because we are talking about the thread topic itself. You're missing my point, my background is irrelevant. You're actually arguing the same thing I am (well one point of it) you cant really ask someone to check their privilege unless you know they are in fact privileged. I've gotten many of those sentiments thrown my way before, and I for sure am not privileged,

Riiiiiight

okay brah.
 
It's never necessary. It makes assumptions about how the larger trends of privilege affect the person in question while also adding nothing to the discussion.

If it applies to a situation, then it is necessary. See my example from before about myself, an average black American being detached from the hardships of people living in war zones and poverty. If I'm completely being insensitive, be it purposefully or not, telling me to check my privilege would suffice.
 
If it applies to a situation, then it is necessary. See my example from before about myself, an average black American being detached from the hardships of people living in war zones and poverty. If I'm completely being insensitive, be it purposefully or not, telling me to check my privilege would suffice.

If you were being insensitive, being told to check your priviledge tells you nothing about how you're being insensitive and what experiences those oppressed people have that you aren't considering.
 
A useful response to this would be to then explain the structural issues that cause the higher poverty rates rather than assume the middle class person in question is arguing from a position of ignorance. How is someone supposed to respond to "check your ignorance"?

"Check your privilege" is a metaphorical shorthand asking the person you're talking to to listen to your arguments with a critical eye towards how their own identity shapes their pre-conceived notions in the debate. It is typically accompanied by other arguments which attempt to illustrate what the pre-conceived notions are. Very rarely does someone say "check your privilege" in total isolation, unless the thing they're responding to is deemed so obviously outrageous that it doesn't require a sincere response--in the same way that someone might reply to a creationist with "Science does not support creationism without necessarily walking them through the how of it.

For example, if two people were discussing the fact that "anyone who didn't learn to swim as a kid is basically an idiot who failed at life", someone might interject that there are privileged assumptions embedded in that argument. Learning how to swim requires access to a source of water. In a rural context, you likely have outdoor swimming options. But in an urban-suburban context, access to swimming facilities is dramatically better if you're middle class or better. First, because if you're middle class, you're much more likely to have a pool or know someone who has a pool. Second, because if you're middle class, you're likely to have more secure transportation inside an urban area, and thus better access to public facilities. Third, because if you're middle class, you're likely to be living in an area with safer public facilities in a better state of repair. So, yes, it's true that the best way to respond is to lay out the obvious case for why their statement is ignorant. But imagine that one of the people did not know how to swim, because he grew up in a bad area of town with limited resources, single parent who worked two jobs, etc. The original statement itself was pretty rude and offensive, and it's logical that the person's immediate response would be "Dude, stop being ignorant. Not everyone learns how to swim." And it's true that that response is incomplete and not necessarily productive, but it's hardly worse than the original comment and it's likely to be a part of the broader response and explanation.

If you were being insensitive, being told to check your priviledge tells you nothing about how you're being insensitive and what experiences those oppressed people have that you aren't considering.

In part the problem here is that you've taken the following scenario:
Ignorant perpertrator says something rude to innocent victim, doesn't consider the impact of statement on other people at all

And you've turned it into:
Insensitive victim fails to spend time explaining how perpetrator was ignorant

If we're going to police tone, the burden should be on the original person to constantly be empathetic, kind, and open-minded, not on the person negatively impacted by a rude person to explain why. It's true that the latter is probably a useful approach and might result in positive discourse, but it's hardly a reasonable expectation.
 
Every one of you in here not discussing anything and just going "HERP DERP WHITE GUILT" are the biggest part of the problem.

is there really anything worth discussing when one side wont listen?

I got into a huge fight with my family last summer over the treyvon martin case. One of them sent that stupid email that had a picture of Drake and said "this is treyvon martin. not the innocent looking kid the media portrayed is it?" or something along those lines. I went off and replied all to the snopes article saying its bullshit.

Any discussion I try to have with them, or any education I try to provide is taken as liberal propaganda. Whether it comes from me or intelligent sources. They simply think I'm the one in the wrong and it pains me because I love my family, but I'll be damned if i'm going to raise my kids around that kind of thinking.
 
And here I thought you were white.
I've experienced Racism for the last 37 years living as a foreigner in another European country (Germany). I'm white. Whenever these threads come up on GAF I feel a little hesitant to write about it because of the definition of Racism. As I pointed out earlier, the concept of different Races, the categorizing of people is frowned up where I live. Maybe that's the reason you don't have to be black to encounter Racism here. Being a foreigner is more than enough.

Oh man, I hope I don't get in trouble again for this post. I certainly didn't try to belittle the struggle minorities in the US face.
 
1) “You’re racist for making this an issue of race.”

This is the worst. Another white person told me once that, "Because you always see racism, that means you're the racist one. You always think about race."
 
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- All white people?
- They always say these 9 things?

Come on, that's straight out generalisation and patronising.

Yes I read the article.
Yes i largely agree with the content.

I just wish it was better written. - it comes across as click-bait.
 
I come from a very different background to you and the typical gaffer, so yes my perspective is different. It's awful nice of you to try and cast doubt upon my thoughts by throwing in the word suspicious though

We ALL come from different backgrounds and I'm sorry you had to go through the shit you did, but telling people to check their privilege is not an insult!

When I said "check your privilege" earlier, that was me putting your whole post in simple terms, I.e Check your privilege instead of all those explanations you were getting into. Why go thru all that when 3 little words can solve the whole thing?

You have made some sketchy posts in the past. That's why I pointed it out.
 
Did you read the article?

Here is what it says:

Don’t do it. Step away from this infantilizing situation to avoid being a white person dictating how racism works to a person of color, despite their actual lived experiences with it. As for how Webster’s and other dictionaries defines the issue? The oversimplification is a topic that merits an entire thesis.

Seems like a relatively substanceless argument to me. Perhaps you would like to defend it?

I think the counterargument is that it is a waste of time to try to have a discussion with someone if you're just talking past each other because you are using different definitions of words.

People use incorrectly use the word "racism" when they should really be saying "discrimination" or "inequality" all the time, and I think this is a barrier to progress. "Racism" is such an emotionally loaded term that it automatically puts people on the defensive. No one wants to be labeled as racist, so the instant response is denial.
 
bkHikPv.png



- All white people?
- They always say these 9 things?

Come on, that's straight out generalisation and patronising.

Yes I read the article.
Yes i largely agree with the content.

I just wish it was better written. - it comes across as click-bait.



It comes across as racist.


.
 
And here I thought you were white.

Nope. My race isnt relevant to me posting here so i never really bring it up. I dunno if its just me but NeoGAF never felt like the most welcome place for people of my upbringing and race combination anyway, so I just steer clear of it. Everyone typically reacts in a very culturally American way to race topics, so I always feel left out anyway. I'd never fit in at blackgaf at least. (I dunno if other non american, non whites feel the same, but yeah thats what it's like for me here)
 
I would feel better if the author used a little bit more than a single paragraph to explain each one. I feel like it would take more than that to explain it to some people.

And god damn at those comments. It's like they didn't read the article. But then I see they are Facebook comments and understand.

Wasn't there a chart from Washington Post or somebody saying the majority of Americans think blacks are responsible for most of their problems these days?
 
Nope. My race isnt relevant to me posting here so i never really bring it up. I dunno if its just me but NeoGAF never felt like the most welcome place for people of my upbringing and race combination anyway, so I just steer clear of it. Everyone typically reacts in a very culturally American way to race topics, so I always feel left out anyway. I'd never fit in at blackgaf at least. (I dunno if other non american, non whites feel the same, but yeah thats what it's like for me here)

Eh, fair.

Stop prejudging me for being white.

No one's prejudging you based on your race.

Your post, on the other hand.
 
This is the worst. Another white person told me once that, "Because you always see racism, that means you're the racist one. You always think about race."
Reading the article that was the genesis for this list it seems to me that the author is racist towards white people - as in he doesn't like them and thinks of them differently to black people.
 
The problem with "check your privilege" is that you have to be at least a little familiar with the sociological definition of "privilege" to even get what it means. For people who aren't familiar, it can seem like some kind of vague condescending attack or dismissal.

And then you get things like this.

I agree. And the word "check" is so vague. Understanding your various advantages is important, but that phrase is rarely helpful. It's accusatory and rarely accompanied with any explanation (on the internet, at least), and is more likely to alienate a white person than educate them.
 
It's never necessary. It makes assumptions about how the larger trends of privilege affect the person in question while also adding nothing to the discussion.

When someone says "check your privilege" to you, it means you're being ignorant, most likely because you've never experienced the hardships you're discussing. It's like you saying, "It's not hard to be a POC, there are plenty of POC in high positions in the world." And then, the person you're talking to (presumably a POC) would say, "Check your privilege" because what you're saying is ridiculous and ignorant. You're in a position of privilege because you've never had to experience the problems of being a POC. Check your privilege is basically another way of saying, "Try to imagine yourself in their shoes." - but emphasizing that you should disregard whatever feelings you may have about the subject because it's not about you.
 
"Check your privilege" always comes as condescending, antagonizing, non-empathic and abrasive. There are certainly better ways to phrase the idea in order to reach real communication and mutual understanding.
 
People use incorrectly use the word "racism" when they should really be saying "discrimination" or "inequality" all the time, and I think this is a barrier to progress. "Racism" is such an emotionally loaded term that it automatically puts people on the defensive. No one wants to be labeled as racist, so the instant response is denial.

In part the issue here is that people have a vision of racism that is limited to dudes with hoods arguing against race-mixing and burning crosses, when in reality racism is subtle and often expressed subconsciously in the power structures of society. But again, by redefining racism to only be cartoon racism and asking victims to use "weaker" language dealing with the issues they face, you essentially advantage the perpetrators (who don't want to be seen as racists) and handicap the victims (who ought not use unfairly harsh language to condemn their own treatment).

In other words, the major issue is that a lot of racist people who believe racist things don't consider themselves racist and are very hurt by the idea that they might be.
 
If you were being insensitive, being told to check your priviledge tells you nothing about how you're being insensitive and what experiences those oppressed people have that you aren't considering.

Stumpokapow said it best here.

"Check your privilege" is a metaphorical shorthand asking the person you're talking to to listen to your arguments with a critical eye towards how their own identity shapes their pre-conceived notions in the debate. It is typically accompanied by other arguments which attempt to illustrate what the pre-conceived notions are. Very rarely does someone say "check your privilege" in total isolation, unless the thing they're responding to is deemed so obviously outrageous that it doesn't require a sincere response--in the same way that someone might reply to a creationist with "Science does not support creationism without necessarily walking them through the how of it.

The moment I were to hear "privilege" I would know that means I should think about the benefits I've had compared to the topic at hand because clearly, I'm being ignorant of the situation. It doesn't mean I need to shut up, it means I need to reevaluate my stance.
 
- All white people?
- They always say these 9 things?

Come on, that's straight out generalisation and patronising.

Yes I read the article.
Yes i largely agree with the content.

I just wish it was better written. - it comes across as click-bait.

Are we really going to start up #notallwhitepeople?

EDIT: Beaten.
 
You have made some sketchy posts in the past. That's why I pointed it out.
Whats your definition of sketchy? Different? Because like I said I grew up a lot different than most here, so yes, my conclusions on things will be different. Again it's nice of you to label them sketchy because you disagree with whatever I have said in the past.

Can you see how your language is doing nothing but picking a fight? I know you aren't intending it, but you literally knew nothing real about me until 5 minutes ago, so who are you to brand me sketchy bro? that shit aint right, but i'm not going to get mad about it further because it's pointless.

Why go thru all that when 3 little words can solve the whole thing?.
It's not tho, it's going to kick off an argument. this is what im saying, it's more harmful than good. I'm not against the core message, this very way of saying it causes people to flip out though
 
"Check your privilege" always comes as condesending, antagonizing, non-empathic and abrasive. There are certainly better ways to phrase the idea in order to reach real communication and mutual understanding.

The phrase is only used in response to arguments that are condescending and antagonizing, non-empathetic and abrasive.

This discussion does not occur:
John: I like ice cream
Angry Black Feminist: Check your privilege cis scum!

This discussion does occur:
John: Welfare recipients are lazy. If I lost my job, which I wouldn't because I work hard, I'd move home, get some support from my family, call up my former co-workers and college friends, look for a better job, polish my resumé, send out a few feelers, and if necessary rely on my credit card in the mean time. What justification do people have for accepting benefits other than their own laziness and lack of ambition?

Person Who Just Got Called A Lazy Bum: Check your privilege, most people don't benefit from such a generous social support structure and many of us didn't have the economic ability to attend college to begin with because we grew up in poor households, often times with an absent parent. I lost my job because Wal-Mart closed my store after someone else started up a unionization campaign, and now I can't get a job because I have severe social anxiety disorder that I can't afford to medicate because I don't have proper insurance and I'm not qualified to do anything other than retail work anyway. Also, I can't afford a car so my range of job options locally are quite limited.

John: Everyone gets worried sometimes dude, just walk it off. Besides, retail workers shouldn't be unionized, anyone can do that job. I worked at my Dad's company doing photocopies when I was 16, so don't give me a sob story about having to work shit retail jobs. Why you being so angry tho?

This is the context in which the statement is typically brought up.
 
The original statement itself was pretty rude and offensive, and it's logical that the person's immediate response would be "Dude, stop being ignorant. Not everyone learns how to swim." And it's true that that response is incomplete and not necessarily productive, but it's hardly worse than the original comment and it's likely to be a part of the broader response and explanation.

I agree. My problem is that saying "check your privilege" is even a step below that. It takes marginally more effort to just say "that's ignorant because pools cost time and money and there's no need to swim when you live the in city" while giving the person in question a real reason to reconsider their opinion.
 
Never been guilty because I'm not white but this white girl I know went off at me and a friend after we were talking about white tourists in our respective countries. "We're ALL THE SAME RACE", "why are you so racist?", etc.

I really dislike her.

She's right though. You and your friend were being pretty racist.
 
so by calling us "white people", you are telling us we are indeed different from others, and we think differently from others. Thats very racist in itself, why not just say people in general.
 
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