Support NeoGAF

[lefantome]

So Xbone is catching up?

well, some games who don't want to take advantage of the full hardware capabilities have been almost identical on both platoforms since launch.

Destiny is one of them, it looks really bad on Ps4, definitely and old gen game @1080p

The fact the it looks like crap on the old gen too doesn't change that.
Probably bungie didn't put so much effort in optimizing the game for 4 different platforms.

 

[LordBaztion]

So, did Bungie already confirm that PS4 beta will be the same as the final product or there is room for graphical improvement begore release like X1?

 

[AlStrong]

Eh, I dunno, based on sales numbers lately, both the 360 and PS3 new games markets have dropped out, they're more than likely going to sell the most copies on the PS4, then XB1. Better to push that tech and give people a reason to upgrade IMO than saddle people with a game built on 7+ year old systems.

Unfortunately, they didn't have time machines at the start of development to make that call... The whole project is risky enough as it is.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So, did Bungie already confirm that PS4 beta will be the same as the final product or there is room for graphical improvement begore release like X1?

The PS4 has been essentially the same since it was shown at last years E3. There were some texture and framerate improvements, but that's about it.

 

[QaaQer]

cross gen game, so it's not pushing anything or offering anything new.

They are offering essentially the same experience on a machine with 256mb of vram and 8 year old gpu so why would the x1 version be noticeably worse? Both PS4 and X1 are 'gimped'.

 

[BigDug13]

In a way, did Sony make things too easy on developers with their hardware design to the point where devs can finish that version up quicker and then concentrate all their time on the other versions?

 

[BruiserBear]

PS4 will always be more powerful than XB1. No amount of new SDK'S or Kinect resource is gonna change that.

So you'll see more 900 and 1080p games on Xb1. But Ps4 will always have the edge and be able to display more. So no, XB1 is not 'catching up'. It's playing catch up but it wont ever get there.

I wish Bungie would have put some extra effort into the ps4 version.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to say all of that, when I pretty much said the same things in my post you quoted.

 

[StoOgE]

Wait..

people are mad that the Xbone version is really close to the same?

You already get an extra multiplayer map and a strike. So there is no "parity"

 

[zeelman]

Who cares about the reality of game development?

No one actually knows that the XBO version is holding anything back. Just like no one here knows how easy it would be to push the PS4 version further, but people are just running with assumptions and speculations.

What we do know is that this is Bungie's first multi-plat title, meaning they need to consider owners of PS360 and XBO, NOT just PS4 owners. It would be a horrible business move to not put the effort to make the other versions on par because a small group of PS4 owners expect everything to be better, finite resources be damned.

I understand wanting the extra power in the PS4 to be utilized, but I also understand that nothing in game development is easy and regardless of their (or our preferences) they need to run a business. As the generation goes on and the scope of development grows, we'll see the gap more and more. This is already an ambitious title, I don't think it's fair to demand more without knowing all the details.

There's nothing on the Xbone that's holding the PS4 version back. The gap between the two is not big enough. The gap between the PS2 and the original Xbox was much bigger, and games were not held back on the latter.

Like every generation with Sony so far, their developers will make the most of their systems. You're only going to have intimate familiarity with a system if its the only one you make games for. Also Destiny was designed for previous generation consoles as well (so people shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't look as good as it could).

 

[McLovin]

They're doing a great job if they can get it a constant framerate and 1080p. Sure the ps4 version probably could have been pushed a little more but its all good. Now all ms has to do is get their exclusives up to the new crossgen standard.

 

[QaaQer]

I'm switching between the two versions daily PS4 on a 40" Samsung F5500 , X1 on a W905A Sony 55"

i can't tell the difference and i tried

I'm switching between ps3 and 4 versions, and I'm surprised at how close they look and feel. Actually, I'm terribly disappointed at how close they look and feel.

This game is supposed to be here for 10 years, and they start off using 2005 hardware as baseline. dafuq, bungie?

 

[Summer Haze]

well, some games who don't want to take advantage of the full hardware capabilities have been almost identical on both platoforms since launch.

Destiny is one of them, it looks really bad on Ps4, definitely and old gen game @1080p

The fact the it looks like crap on the old gen too doesn't change that.
Probably bungie didn't put so much effort in optimizing the game for 4 different platforms.

Wat? It's not the best looking game on the console, not by a long shot, but "really bad"? Holy hyperbole, Batman.

 

[Darkstorne]

Wow. Well there it is. PS4's extra power being pumped into an effect that deliberately makes the image quality look worse. I never thought I'd miss the early 360 days of "moar bloom!" Or the PS2 days of "moar lens flare!" But this chromatic aberration fad is worse than the two combined.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Unfortunately, they didn't have time machines at the start of development to make that call...

The last gen market was in a hole being covered in dirt before next gen consoles even launched. I'll agree they didn't know when they started development, but they have had plenty of time in the interim to refocus more development time on the PS4/XB1 versions, which they haven't done based on the comparisons I've seen. Other than some bad shadows, a not-as-impressive skybox, and blurrier textures, there's absolutely nothing to differentiate last gen versions of Destiny from current gen.

 

[benny_a]

This game is supposed to be here for 10 years, and they start off using 2005 hardware as baseline. dafuq, bungie?

Activision's call.

 

[Dragonborn]

Wait..

people are mad that the Xbone version is really close to the same?

You already get an extra multiplayer map and a strike. So there is no "parity"

No, that's really not the issue. The issue isn't that the X1 version is the same, but rather the implication. We know for a fact that the hardware difference is there, and it's not some some small gap (like the 360 vs. Ps3), it's relatively significant. Therefore, the only way the both would be the same, is if the PS4 version was held back in some way (be that intentionally or because Bungie decided not to work on it further and focus on the X1).

The's what the problem people have. Back during the PS2/Xbox days, I would have been pissed when games on Xbox were intentionally held back, but luckily most of the games I played weren't (and they looked better on Xbox). This isn't about wanting the X1 to have the inferior console but rather wanting Bungie to do the best they can with each consoles, rather than hold one back for parity. Graphical parity. And yes, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game, but it's still something I don't, and won't support. I've always disliked parity. Holding one version back because of another console's technically inferior hardware is bad.

 

[ethomaz]

Looks like parity.

But the games is really goodness... I loved it.

 

[BigDug13]

I'm switching between ps3 and 4 versions, and I'm surprised at how close they look and feel. Actually, I'm terribly disappointed at how close they look and feel.

This game is supposed to be here for 10 years, and they start off using 2005 hardware as baseline. dafuq, bungie?

This one specific game release is it for the next 10 years? Are you sure? Incredibly disappointing if we will never see more enemies spawning at the same time in a Destiny game because of last gen tech.

 

[Bluekaveli]

On cross-gen games? Yeah maybe.

ROFLMFAO!

 

[Orayn]

No, that's really not the issue. The issue isn't that the X1 version is the same, but rather the implication. We know for a fact that the hardware difference is there, and it's not some some small gap (like the 360 vs. Ps3), it's relatively significant. Therefore, the only way the both would be the same, is if the PS4 version was intentional held back in some way (be that intentionally or because Bungie decided not to work on it further and focus on the X1).

The's what the problem people have. Back during the PS2/Xbox days, I would have been pissed when games on Xbox were intentionally held back, but luckily most of the games I played weren't (and they looked better on Xbox). This isn't about wanting the X1 to have the inferior console but rather wanting Bungie to do the best they can with each consoles, rather than hold one back for parity. Graphical parity.

I get what you're saying, but this is still an unbelievably petty thing to take a hardline stance on if you're already interested in the game and satisfied with its visuals on PS4. It is quite literally finding something to be unhappy with for the express purpose of ruining your own fun and being as much of a brand loyalist as possible.

 

[Zombie James]

Wait..

people are mad that the Xbone version is really close to the same?

You already get an extra multiplayer map and a strike. So there is no "parity"

This thread is about the technical differences, not content. Technical parity when one console is 40+% more powerful is unacceptable.

 

[Darkstorne]

This one specific game release is it for the next 10 years? Are you sure? Incredibly disappointing if we will never see more enemies spawning at the same time in a Destiny game because of last gen tech.

Three games over ten years, including the development time of the first entry. Four pieces of DLC for each game: two large, and two small. The Destiny IP is a ten year plan.

 

[Cornbread78]

Who cares about the reality of game development?

No one actually knows that the XBO version is holding anything back. Just like no one here knows how easy it would be to push the PS4 version further, but people are just running with assumptions and speculations.

What we do know is that this is Bungie's first multi-plat title, meaning they need to consider owners of PS360 and XBO, NOT just PS4 owners. It would be a horrible business move to not put the effort to make the other versions on par because a small group of PS4 owners expect everything to be better, finite resources be damned.

I understand wanting the extra power in the PS4 to be utilized, but I also understand that nothing in game development is easy and regardless of their (or our preferences) they need to run a business. As the generation goes on and the scope of development grows, we'll see the gap more and more. This is already an ambitious title, I don't think it's fair to demand more without knowing all the details.

All are fair points and probably closer to the truth and Bungie has to walk a fine line with this game as their relationship with Sony is a new one and they have had a really good relationship with MS for much longer.

Facts and good business decisions aside, people know there is a power difference between the two consoles. PS4 owners, as with any console owner, want to see the best product possible on their system at all times. This is why the whole "console parity" issue came up once the hardware specs were actualized and everyone know there was more power in the PS4. Obviously, 1st party titles will utilize that extra power, but the majority of people that buy 3rd party titles for the mostly and choose a PS4 because of the game ratings thus far on PS4 have been better, expect the PS4 version to again perform and look better. Then take a look at the marketing agreement that Sony made with Bungie to promote the game, again, you can see why people expect there to be a difference uin the two versions.


Again, relationships, dev. costs/decisions aside, there will definately be questions why they choose parity instead of opimization for the game and you can understand why, people want the best version possible for their system at all times, and this obviously wasn't it, even after the launch delay.

 

[SolsticeZero]

ROFLMFAO!

 

[QaaQer]

Imagine late game Destiny with a huge amount of endgame enemies on screen at once, possibly on a larger scale arena.

Won't happen because Bungie has said that they are offering the same experience across platforms, including ps3/360.

the joys of cross/gen, multiplat releases. You can blame Activision for that though, like beeny_a said.

 

[Summer Haze]

No, that's really not the issue. The issue isn't that the X1 version is the same, but rather the implication. We know for a fact that the hardware difference is there, and it's not some some small gap (like the 360 vs. Ps3), it's relatively significant. Therefore, the only way the both would be the same, is if the PS4 version was intentional held back in some way (be that intentionally or because Bungie decided not to work on it further and focus on the X1).

.

 

[Caayn]

My guess: In Xbone, Bungie are using one display plane for frame buffer and another for HUD, so CA only affects the framebuffer and not the HUD. In PS4 there's only one display plane (HUD+framebuffer) so CA affects all.

That makes sense.

No, that's really not the issue. The issue isn't that the X1 version is the same, but rather the implication. We know for a fact that the hardware difference is there, and it's not some some small gap (like the 360 vs. Ps3), it's relatively significant. Therefore, the only way the both would be the same, is if the PS4 version was intentional held back in some way (be that intentionally or because Bungie decided not to work on it further and focus on the X1).

The's what the problem people have. Back during the PS2/Xbox days, I would have been pissed when games on Xbox were intentionally held back, but luckily most of the games I played weren't (and they looked better on Xbox). This isn't about wanting the X1 to have the inferior console but rather wanting Bungie to do the best they can with each consoles, rather than hold one back for parity. Graphical parity.

As others have said the Xbox One only got to the same level as the PS4 due to SDK update and a team of Microsoft engineers. You're going to blame MS for helping Bungie getting the Xbox version to perform better then it would've without the MS team? Would you've been happy if MS never sent in a team resulting in the XB1 version being worse than it now is meaning no more "parity"?

 

[Teletraan1]

How do we know how much work was put into each version? The PS4 version could have been hitting a stable 30(frame pacing bugs aside) earlier and then they had to go all hands on deck to get the X1 to run at 1080p. This push for resolution parity while in the end getting them the results they wanted probably took a lot of work on one version over the other. So I doubt any system is "catching up" since that is impossible on fixed hardware. One version probably just had a disproportionate amount of time spent on it. Probably the same problem developers had with the PS360 versions of games, just reverse the companies.

 

[Dragonborn]

I get what you're saying, but this is still an unbelievably petty thing to take a hardline stance on if you're already interested in the game and satisfied with its visuals on PS4.

Perhaps, and I can see why some would view it as such, but it's still something I don't like. Devs, especially big AAA developers, shouldn't hold back one version because of another console. I've never liked it, and I'm not going to start liking it this gen either.

I don't even get why they would do it either. There's enough information that someone buying an X1 should know well beforehand that it's weaker, hardware wise. So I don't think any X1 owner would be upset if the PS4 version ended up better.

With that said though, I'll definitely wait till it's actually out before making any decisions. It's still in Beta so who knows what'll happen when it releases.

 

[Orayn]

This thread is about the technical differences, not content. Technical parity when one console is 40+% more powerful is unacceptable.

You hear that, Bungie? Unacceptable.

SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS DUNGEON!

 

[StoOgE]

No, that's really not the issue. The issue isn't that the X1 version is the same, but rather the implication. We know for a fact that the hardware difference is there, and it's not some some small gap (like the 360 vs. Ps3), it's relatively significant. Therefore, the only way the both would be the same, is if the PS4 version was intentional held back in some way (be that intentionally or because Bungie decided not to work on it further and focus on the X1).

The's what the problem people have. Back during the PS2/Xbox days, I would have been pissed when games on Xbox were intentionally held back, but luckily most of the games I played weren't (and they looked better on Xbox). This isn't about wanting the X1 to have the inferior console but rather wanting Bungie to do the best they can with each consoles, rather than hold one back for parity. Graphical parity. And yes, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game, but it's still something I don't, and won't support. I've always disliked parity. Holding one version back because of another console's technically inferior hardware is bad.

And what if Bungie had a target for the games graphical fidelity and both consoles managed to hit that graphical quality?

Bungie isn't exactly known for not having massive technical issues in their games (look at all of the compromise an tricks used to pull off the 360 Halo games). It's possible they made the conscious decision to ramp things back to a safe zone to ensure 30FPS at all times or avoid using less than a 1080p resolution.

This is a cross-gen release and given the world they are building, it's very likely that the reason we are seeing parity on the Bone/PS4 is because they wanted to ensure 30FPS on the 360/PS3 which led to certain design decisions.

They've been working closely with Sony for years, it's unlikely they just decided to hold that version back especially when that version has a comarketing relationship that I mentioned that is leading to additional content for one version. It's not as though Bungie or Destiny are looking to push the Xbox One version, they have been financially incentivized to do the opposite.

But I don't know, maybe they can add some extra motion blur or chromatic abrasion filters to satisfy everyone.

 

[intheinbetween]

Perhaps, and I can see why some would view it as such, but it's still something I don't like. Devs, especially big AAA developers, shouldn't hold back one version because of another console. I've never liked it, and I'm not going to start liking it this gen either.

you're really sure Bungie are holding back the PS4 on purpose, it seems like you've been an insider or working for Bungie

 

[Ray Wonder]

I don't think the PS4 is getting gimped. MS sent over engineers to make sure they got the most out of the hardware. I'm assuming specifically from the eSRAM and the new Kinectless SKU power. I don't really know if Sony had anyone over there doing the same, which probably wasn't necessary anyway. I think Bungie made the PS4's version as good as they could (or hit a target they set) with the time they had.

 

[KageMaru]

Exactly!

Thanks for pointing the bullshit out KageMaru. The real issue is how the PS3 version doesn't look the same as the 360 version.

I thought the 360 version may have looked better when I played it late last night but haven't had time to compare them directly yet. Given the gap in experience between the two systems, I'm not too surprised unfortunately. Hopefully they reach parity between the PS3 and 360 version by release.

Eh, I dunno, based on sales numbers lately, both the 360 and PS3 new games markets have dropped out, they're more than likely going to sell the most copies on the PS4, then XB1. Better to push that tech and give people a reason to upgrade IMO than saddle people with a game built on 7+ year old systems.

The more I play of the beta, the more concerned I get about the long term prospects for it.

True, but they have also built a good following on the 360. So there's still a chance of good sales last Gen. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[QaaQer]

This one specific game release is it for the next 10 years? Are you sure? Incredibly disappointing if we will never see more enemies spawning at the same time in a Destiny game because of last gen tech.

I should have said 'the franchaise' I suppose. Nonetheless, there really is nothing as far as gameplay goes that could not have been done in 2007 which I find disappointing given that it is supposed to be a 500 million dollar tentpole from a legendary developer.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Won't happen because Bungie has said that they are offering the same experience across platforms, including ps3/360.

the joys of cross/gen, multiplat releases. You can blame Activision for that though, like beeny_a said.

Will those PS3/360 versions have the 10 year life cycle though? I don't see Activision pumping money in to what would be 17-18 year old machines. Sooner or later it will go current gen and then they can hopefully add some bells and whistles.

 

[Dragonborn]

And what if Bungie had a target for the games graphical fidelity and both consoles managed to hit that graphical quality?

Bungie isn't exactly known for not having massive technical issues in their games (look at all of the compromise an tricks used to pull off the 360 Halo games). It's possible they made the conscious decision to ramp things back to a safe zone to ensure 30FPS at all times or avoid using less than a 1080p resolution.

They've been working closely with Sony for years, it's unlikely they just decided to hold that version back especially when that version has a comarketing relationship that I mentioned that is leading to additional content for one version. It's not as though Bungie or Destiny are looking to push the Xbox One version, they have been financially incentivized to do the opposite.

True, and that may be the case. But the fact remains that, if they could get to a certain point on the X1 version, they can go farther on the PS4. If they choose not to, that's fine. Bungie is free to do as they want, it's their game. I'm just expressing my own stance on the matter. That's all I'm saying. If they do end up going for parity, I simply won't buy it day 1, no biggie. I'll buy it when I find it cheap during BF or something.

 

[Bundy]

You hear that, Bungie? Unacceptable.

SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS DUNGEON!

Please tell us more.

 

[benny_a]

But I don't know, maybe they can add some extra motion blur or chromatic abrasion filters to satisfy everyone.

How about Anti-Aliasing which was brought up several times? Or is that too legitimate and can't be made fun of?

 

[funkystudent]

I am sure they probably had some headroom on XB1 before the update but a res between 900 and 1080 would be weird and the world doesn't need another 792p.

The game isnt exactly a technical powerhouse and you can tell it was a old gen 1th game. Next gen feels like a really sharp PC port of a 360 game.


I just wished they had a better AA solution on PS4 with the extra power. Would really improve the games look if they iron out that aliasing. Maybe something will change in the final game but I doubt it. Bungie hammering home parity and all......

 

[shandy706]

True, and that may be the case. But the fact remains that, if they could get to a certain point on the X1 version, they can go farther on the PS4. If they choose not to, that's fine. Bungie is free to do as they want, it's their game. I'm just expressing my own stance on the matter. That's all I'm saying. If they do end up going for parity, I simply won't buy it day 1, no biggie. I'll buy it when I find it cheap during BF or something.

I agree with StoOgE on a number of his thoughts.

Bungie did not go for parity. They only hit 900p on the X1 on their own.

So you can feel fine buying day 1 .

 

[BigDug13]

Three games over ten years, including the development time of the first entry. Four pieces of DLC for each game: two large, and two small. The Destiny IP is a ten year plan.

And it is guaranteed to continue to be on PS360 for all installments?

 

[StoOgE]

The last gen market was in a hole being covered in dirt before next gen consoles even launched. I'll agree they didn't know when they started development, but they have had plenty of time in the interim to refocus more development time on the PS4/XB1 versions, which they haven't done based on the comparisons I've seen. Other than some bad shadows, a not-as-impressive skybox, and blurrier textures, there's absolutely nothing to differentiate last gen versions of Destiny from current gen.

Yeah, but given the rumors of the budget of this game they really needed to hedge those bets 3 years ago when development began.

Even still, there could be several million sales between 360/PS3

 

[LittleJohnny]

So Xbone is catching up?

Catching up in the sense that first games were horrible on Xbox One due to a more difficult architecture that developers are bound to get better at, bad drivers, Kinect hogging resources, etc. It's a combination of things.

The difference between Xbox One and PS4 will always remain, however early games were NOT indicative of the real world difference between them since PS4 games were better optimized thanks to more mature drivers and an easier to deal with architecture, and it didn't have any resourced reserved. What you're seeing now is closer to what may become the norm.

 

[Orayn]

True, and that may be the case. But the fact remains that, if they could get to a certain point on the X1 version, they can go farther on the PS4. If they choose not to, that's fine. Bungie is free to do as they want, it's their game. I'm just expressing my own stance on the matter. That's all I'm saying. If they do end up going for parity, I simply won't buy it day 1, no biggie. I'll buy it when I find it cheap during BF or something.

Dragonborn, I will give you credit for admitting this is just your own weird compunction instead of making conspiracy allegations. You're better than some of the other people who talk about parity, that's for sure.

Please tell us more.

[Lemongrab intensifies]

 

[flkraven]

So it looks like a handful of MS engineers make up for the power difference between consoles?

PS4 = XB1 + MS Engineers

 

[StoOgE]

How about Anti-Aliasing which was brought up several times? Or is that too legitimate and can't be made fun of?

Right, they should just flip that switch which could not possibly have any unforeseen implications that we might not know about since we are all so intimately knowledgeable of the Destiny Engine.

My guess is if they had reserve PS4 power that could easily be used in some way they would. This close to release I don't think they are going to be making any major changes, and we have no knowledge of what sort of hurdles they may have been overcoming for all versions 6 months ago.

 

[Xando]

wat?

Whats wrong with that statement ? PS4 is undoubtedly the best technically the best console on the market right now.

 

[QaaQer]

Will those PS3/360 versions have the 10 year life cycle though? I don't see Activision pumping money in to what would be 17-18 year old machines. Sooner or later it will go current gen and then they can hopefully add some bells and whistles.

Not bells & whistles, I really want a next-gen game with really new gameplay. If the only thing we get is more fps and better AA I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

And it is guaranteed to continue to be on PS360 for all installments?

I highly doubt Destiny 2 will be released for either of those consoles