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#ICC4Israel reaches 19 million tweets

 

[Dai101]

Please tell me how Netanyahu and co lieying about the kidnapping of those 3 teenagers puts the whole blame on Hamas? How does the IDF imprissoning Palestinians and ignoring their human rights in the manhunt for the 3 teenagers put the whole blame on Hamas?

Thats democracy for you buddy. Do you know who Ben Gurion is.

You are right on that one. the IDF has slaughtered over a 1000 people, mostly civilians.

When you reduce this:


To this:


It's not human shields, its a war crime.

You act like Israel has been an honest broker of peace if only it wasn't for those pesky Hamas fellas.

How old are you exactly? Have you studied the 1990's peace talks? Israel has been anything but cooperative and reasonable when it comes to genuinely trying to reach a peace agreement.

Now now... Don't be too harsh on Dash27. His updated script hasn't been redacted yet.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I'd be happy to have a reasonable debate. We are talking about Gaza and you're bringing in the West Bank. That's a seperate debate in my opinion. Israel still has settlements there and it's expanding them. There is a different leadership and negotiation history.

Back to the issue at hand though you're free to state your case that Hamas is somehow on the same plane as Israel or even Fatah if you want but yes I'd need to be convinced.

Were the peace talks centered around a two state or three state solution?

 

[zeroOman]

yep it's not our fault....

Here’s the @IDFSpokesperson statement on the @UNRWA school incident that left at least 15 Palestinians dead. #CBC

https://twitter.com/DerekStoffelCBC/status/493465615978741760

 

[Diablos]

yep it's not our fault....

https://twitter.com/DerekStoffelCBC/status/493465615978741760

Bull-fucking-shit.

 

[Chumly]

I'd be happy to have a reasonable debate. We are talking about Gaza and you're bringing in the West Bank. That's a seperate debate in my opinion. Israel still has settlements there and it's expanding them. There is a different leadership and negotiation history.

Back to the issue at hand though you're free to state your case that Hamas is somehow on the same plane as Israel or even Fatah if you want but yes I'd need to be convinced.

Is this new for the bingo sheet?

So Hamas are so supposed to look at the West Bank and see them getting completely fucked by Israel with no rights and they are supposed to think that the same won't happen to them because it's different leadership and negotiations?

 

[squidyj]

He was blowing off the thousands of rockets fired indiscriminately into Israel by Hamas. This is implicit in most of the Hamas supporters: "The rockets barely kill anyone". As if that makes it ok, and nobody should try and stop it. "But so many people die!" Yes even more reason not to do it and more reason to disarm Hamas. "It's disproportionate!" Well what is "proportionate" in the first place and what method is proportionate that also makes the rockets stop? "Crickets"

The fact is that the reason for the horrible conditions of the people in Gaza are due to those rockets and tunnels, specifically the need to eliminate them. That and the fact that Hamas stores weapons pretty much everywhere in Gaza. So a densely populated area with munitions (and thus targets) everywhere. There isn't much alternative.

how about the best reason of all? ITS NOT GONNA FUCKIN WORK.

 

[Codeblue]

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

I don't think you really answered the question of why the West Bank lives in poor conditions even though they didn't elect Hamas.

It's impossible to place the entire blame on Hamas, because the West Bank exists. The poor treatment of those people exposes that Israel's intentions are just as bad.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

yep it's not our fault....

https://twitter.com/DerekStoffelCBC/status/493465615978741760

Yeah it's not like Israel has targeted UN buildings and complexes before.. /s

 

[toastyToast]

yep it's not our fault....

https://twitter.com/DerekStoffelCBC/status/493465615978741760

Did they really say there was no one there or am I high on something?

 

[Tallshortman]

Were the peace talks centered around a two state or three state solution?

Unless Hamas falls out of power, any foreseeable future peace talks will be based on a two state solution involving the west bank and israel, Gaza will be Palestinian but it's status as it relates to a future Palestinian state would likely be secondary or solved afterward. The unity government will never be able to achieve full control of both territories as long as Hamas is involved because any unity government would be largely PA dominated and Hamas would never submit significant authority over to it.

 

[werks]

Over 20,000 people made homeless and displaced in the last 8 year. Not counting whats going on in Gaza right now.

And Israel wonders why it can't have "peace".

 

[Dash27]

You act like Israel has been an honest broker of peace if only it wasn't for those pesky Hamas fellas.

How old are you exactly? Have you studied the 1990's peace talks? Israel has been anything but cooperative and reasonable when it comes to genuinely trying to reach a peace agreement.

Read or skim through both of these and tell me what you think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/international/middleeast/12mideast.html

"I can move easily," he said. "There are no checkpoints."

In the Palestinian quest for statehood, Gaza presents the most significant opportunity yet for Palestinians to run their own affairs in at least part of the land they seek for a future state.

However, the Palestinians say that tiny, impoverished Gaza will never be viable on its own, with Israel strictly controlling its borders. Even as the Israelis were leaving, the two sides were trading recriminations over the question of Palestinian movements at the borders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/world/middleeast/14mideast.html

Hamas spokesmen said the movement had no political goal except to defend itself from a group within Fatah collaborating with Israel and the United States. They said they wanted to bring the security forces under the control of the unity government, in which Fatah agreed to play a part until the current fighting.

"Collaborating" in this context means negotiating with, apparently.

Also note when the naval blockade of Gaza started.

 

[LNBL]

yep it's not our fault....

https://twitter.com/DerekStoffelCBC/status/493465615978741760

What a joke.

Read or skim through both of these and tell me what you think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/international/middleeast/12mideast.html



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/world/middleeast/14mideast.html



"Collaborating" in this context means negotiating with, apparently.

Also note when the naval blockade of Gaza started.

How about you answer my question as well, and not just selectively choose posts

tell me how Netanyahu and co lying about the kidnapping of those 3 teenagers puts the whole blame on Hamas? How does the IDF imprissoning Palestinians and ignoring their human rights in the manhunt for the 3 teenagers put the whole blame on Hamas?

 

[Dai101]

I'd be happy to have a reasonable debate. We are talking about Gaza and you're bringing in the West Bank. That's a seperate debate in my opinion.

Now that you mention the West Bank:

Gaza Bombardment Continues, West Bank Cities Stand Up For Fellow Palestinians

The floors of the Ramallah Government Hospital were covered in blood on Thursday, as a steady stream of people injured in the largest protest to hit the West Bank in decades arrived for treatment.

Exposed to the nearly three weeks of Israeli shelling from land, sea and air that has ripped entire families and communities apart and left over 800 people dead, tens of thousands of protesters gathered together in Ramallah to march to the Qalandiya checkpoint on Laylat al-Qadr, known as the “Night of Destiny,” in a show of solidarity with their Palestinian counterparts in Gaza.

Fireworks and rocks ricocheted off buildings and walls as 200 of the frontline protesters marched forward and clashed with the Israeli Defense Forces, who fired gunshot after gunshot at the mass of protesters. The result was eight dead, and another 300 injured — half of whom injured by live ammunition.

Protesters described scenes of the IDF firing random shots into the crowds. Both those throwing stones and the thousands of people who stood on the sidelines chanting and cheering, they say, were being targeted by the IDF. Alaa Jadaa, a protester from Ramallah, told MintPress News that he believed he was witnessing the start of a third intifada, or uprising, in Palestine.

“The protest was so big, we gathered for Gaza, what’s been happening there and the bombing of all the people. So many have been killed. Even our president [Mahmoud Abbas] is just silent about Gaza. But people, like me, now believe this is the third intifada, there were even people with guns who came to Ramallah and they started to shoot toward the [Israeli] army,” Jadaa said.

Pics, video and more @ http://www.mintpressnews.com/gaza-b...bank-cities-stand-fellow-palestinians/194559/

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Now that you mention the West Bank:

Gaza Bombardment Continues, West Bank Cities Stand Up For Fellow Palestinians



Pics, video and more @ http://www.mintpressnews.com/gaza-b...bank-cities-stand-fellow-palestinians/194559/

Perfectly normal for a modern and democratic state to answer rocks with bullets.

Rocks, dangerous stuff. Gotta go on a killing spree for that.

 

[funkypie]

mark whatever his name is the isreali spokesmen who has a south african accent says that the IDF do not aim to target a single Palestinian civilian to channel 4 news.

the shit is almost a parody, how can they say it with a straight face.

 

[SniperHunter]

You are right on that one. the IDF has slaughtered over a 1000 people, mostly civilians.

When you reduce this:


To this:


It's not human shields, its a war crime.

awful....i feel bad for people in Gaza

 

[Tallshortman]

mark whatever his name is the isreali spokesmen who has a south african accent says that the IDF do not aim to target a single Palestinian civilian to channel 4 news.

the shit is almost a parody, how can they say it with a straight face.

His statement is technically correct as long as you don't believe Israeli command is deliberately selecting civilian targets as opposed to being sloppy and in their strikes and risks of collateral damage.

 

[Aaron]

His statement is technically correct as long as you don't believe Israeli command is deliberately selecting civilian targets as opposed to being sloppy and in their strikes and risks of collateral damage.

They targeted a hospital. He's full of shit.

 

[Dai101]

mark whatever his name is the isreali spokesmen who has a south african accent says that the IDF do not aim to target a single Palestinian civilian to channel 4 news.

the shit is almost a parody, how can they say it with a straight face.

They need to believe their own lies, so that others believe them too. Goebbels would be so proud of them.

And now that people are starting to see beyond the lies and go to the streets to show support for Palestine and their people, they are starting to use fear and violence to deterr that:

As the ferocious attacks on the Palestinian population of Gaza continue, once again the Israeli government’s sense of impenetrable impunity is on display in all its brutality. With an Israeli rabbi condoning the killing of civilians in Gaza, an Israeli lawmaker calling for the murder of Palestinian mothers and a “scholar” suggesting Palestinian women be raped, it should come as no surprise that this sense of impunity is being transmitted to Israeli citizens, interpreted by some as a free license to attack those who dare to publicly stand for justice in Palestine.

In Tel Aviv, demonstrators protesting the assault on Gaza were violently attacked by right wing nationalists, with the police on the scene failing to intervene.

The message is also reaching Israeli supporters outside the country. Vigilante groups, reportedly associated with the extremist Jewish Defense League (JDL), were recently caught on video in the streets of Paris, armed with metal bars and pepper spray, attacking pro-Palestinian demonstrators. Despite the attack being played out under the watchful eyes of the police, not one of the attackers was arrested and the French government has since banned pro-Palestinian demonstrations in Paris.

In Italy, Rome has also been scene to a number of deeply disturbing and violent incidents, with attacks on Palestinians and Palestine solidarity activists, and not just with the recent events.

On July 1, the Young Palestinians of Rome had called for a protest on a central square against the escalating collective punishment being wrought out by Israel across the West Bank and in Gaza following the discovery of the bodies of the three kidnapped Israeli settler teens. An Italian university student approaching the square was told by a plainclothes police officer that the protest would not be taking place. In fact, demonstrators had been dispersed by the police due to “tension” in the area, as organized groups from the self-appointed security squads of the Jewish quarter of Rome were stationed in the area.

More @ http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/attacks-demonstratos-italy.html

 

[Jonm1010]

Read or skim through both of these and tell me what you think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/international/middleeast/12mideast.html



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/world/middleeast/14mideast.html



"Collaborating" in this context means negotiating with, apparently.

Also note when the naval blockade of Gaza started.

So again I ask, how old are you? Have you actually studied the peace talks or anything pre-Hamas? Isreal has been a very poor broker going back further then Hamas. So it's hard for me to swallow your thesis that Hamas is standing in the way of peace considering historical facts.

 

[Tallshortman]

They targeted a hospital. He's full of shit.

You talking about this?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28399292

So yeah that would fall under the being sloppy with their strikes and calculated risk of collateral damage as opposed to deliberately targeting a hospital. There is nothing to gain and plenty to lose in deliberately targeting civilian hospitals. I'm not endorsing these strikes but I don't see them as deliberately targeting civilians either.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

We all live in our own bubble and with our cozy and comfortable social media and internet lives the war crimes are ignored and the blind eye will continue.

Governments will condemn/worm around the issue but not act as they fear to burst this bubble.

 

[Aaron]

You talking about this?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28399292

So yeah that would fall under the being sloppy with their strikes and calculated risk of collateral damage as opposed to deliberately targeting a hospital. There is nothing to gain and plenty to lose in deliberately targeting civilian hospitals. I'm not endorsing these strikes but I don't see them as deliberately targeting civilians either.

So would you rather believe the IDF is incompetent on the level of the Three Stooges, launching all these 'whoops!' missiles missing their intended targets, or would you rather think they know exactly what they're doing, and just don't mind lying about it?

 

[Dash27]

What a joke.



How about you answer my question as well, and not just selectively choose posts

tell me how Netanyahu and co lying about the kidnapping of those 3 teenagers puts the whole blame on Hamas? How does the IDF imprissoning Palestinians and ignoring their human rights in the manhunt for the 3 teenagers put the whole blame on Hamas?

Because 8 people are quoting me and I cant respond to them all.

In my opinion the 3 teens were politicized. If you want to say he was lying, fine. I dont think that has a major impact on the overall issue at hand but rather a symptom of two sides that hate and distrust each other. The election of Hamas made the situation much worse so to point to one issue like this just goes back to listing all the bad things each side does. Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Now that you mention the West Bank:

Gaza Bombardment Continues, West Bank Cities Stand Up For Fellow Palestinians



Pics, video and more @ http://www.mintpressnews.com/gaza-b...bank-cities-stand-fellow-palestinians/194559/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre

Not so dissimilar.

Apartheid sounds about right regarding Israel.

 

[werks]

Because 8 people are quoting me and I cant respond to them all.

In my opinion the 3 teens were politicized. If you want to say he was lying, fine. I dont think that has a major impact on the overall issue at hand but rather a symptom of two sides that hate and distrust each other. The election of Hamas made the situation much worse so to point to one issue like this just goes back to listing all the bad things each side does. Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

A 1000 dead, 10,000s injured.

Unless you mean the open air prison in Gaza.

 

[LNBL]

Because 8 people are quoting me and I cant respond to them all.

In my opinion the 3 teens were politicized. If you want to say he was lying, fine. I dont think that has a major impact on the overall issue at hand but rather a symptom of two sides that hate and distrust each other. The election of Hamas made the situation much worse so to point to one issue like this just goes back to listing all the bad things each side does. Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

You do realize this whole shit conflict is a results of those kidnappings right?

And i'm basing that he is lying on reports of people from inside the government that said Hamas had not ordered those kidnappings and the spokesperson of the Israeli police. Based on Facts.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Yeah it's not like Israel has targeted UN buildings and complexes before.. /s

They targeted a hospital. He's full of shit.

I haven't been following this thread closely, but surely these have been posted already?


UNRWA STRONGLY CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS IN SCHOOL
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Both are from the current round of conflict.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

. Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

Arresting and incarcerating people without charge or due process is the same as abducting them.

 

[Dash27]

You act like Israel has been an honest broker of peace if only it wasn't for those pesky Hamas fellas.

How old are you exactly? Have you studied the 1990's peace talks? Israel has been anything but cooperative and reasonable when it comes to genuinely trying to reach a peace agreement.



So again I ask, how old are you? Have you actually studied the peace talks or anything pre-Hamas? Isreal has been a very poor broker going back further then Hamas. So it's hard for me to swallow your thesis that Hamas is standing in the way of peace considering historical facts.

I'm old enough to remember the 90's if that's your question. There have been positive steps like Oslo, in which each side formally recognized the other.... followed by Hamas suicide bombers. That was helpful.

EDIT: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1654510.stm

Hamas came to prominence after the first intifada as the main Palestinian opponent of the Oslo accords - the US-sponsored peace process that oversaw the gradual and partial removal of Israel's occupation in return for Palestinian guarantees to protect Israeli security.

Despite numerous Israeli operations against it and clampdowns by Yasser Arafat's Palestinian National Authority, Hamas found it had an effective power of veto over the process by launching suicide attacks.

In February and March 1996, it carried out several suicide bus bombings, killing nearly 60 Israelis, in retaliation for the assassination in December 1995 of Hamas bomb maker Yahya Ayyash.

The bombings were widely blamed for turning Israelis off the peace process and bringing about the election of right-winger Mr Netanyahu who was a staunch opponent of the Oslo accords.

 

[Tallshortman]

So would you rather believe the IDF is incompetent on the level of the Three Stooges, launching all these 'whoops!' missiles missing their intended targets, or would you rather think they know exactly what they're doing, and just don't mind lying about it?

It's not hard to hit a large building if your target is immediately next to it, even with today's precision weapons. Besides that, what exactly do you calculate Israel has to gain by deliberately targeting civilian only targets? It only increases international pressure, that is unless you consider them masochists I suppose. Instill fear in Gazans? They certainly don't need to target hospitals to do that, the other air strikes have already done enough of that.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

It's not hard to hit a large building if your target is immediately next to it, even with today's precision weapons. Besides that, what exactly do you calculate Israel has to gain by deliberately targeting civilian only targets? It only increases international pressure, that is unless you consider them masochists I suppose. Instill fear in Gazans? They certainly don't need to target hospitals to do that, the other air strikes have already done enough of that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

 

[Dai101]

I haven't been following this thread closely, but surely these have been posted already?


UNRWA STRONGLY CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS IN SCHOOL
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Both are from the current round of conflict.

A shit load of times now. And

1- Those were in an abandoned school and Hamas retired them from the premises
2- The UN Shelter that was bombed by the idf tried to contact and negotiate a way to evacuate which was dismissed. Also the idf KNEW the GPS coordinates to said shelter. So a "whoops, missfire, sorry" is a FUCKING BLATANT LIE. They deliberately bombed that shelter full of civilians and UN Staff, which by the way resulted in some of said staff dead.

 

[zer0blivion]

I haven't been following this thread closely, but surely these have been posted already?


UNRWA STRONGLY CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS IN SCHOOL
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school

UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

Both are from the current round of conflict.

Posted and discussed. Go read that discussion and come back if you have anything to add to it.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

A shit load of times now. And

1- Those were in an abandoned school and Hamas retired them from the premises
2- The UN Shelter that was bombed by the idf tried to contact and negotiate a way to evacuate which was dismissed. Also the idf KNEW the GPS coordinates to said shelter. So a "whoops, missfire, sorry" is a FUCKING BLATANT LIE. They deliberately bombed that shelter full of civilians and UN Staff, which by the way resulted in some of said staff dead.

But this at the very least lends some credibility to the claims made by IDF that civilian facilities are being used to store weapons?

I'm not saying that justifies killing civilians, but it does paint a less black and white picture, as far as IDF intentions are concerned.

 

[Dash27]

You do realize this whole shit conflict is a results of those kidnappings right?

And i'm basing that he is lying on reports of people from inside the government that said Hamas had not ordered those kidnappings and the spokesperson of the Israeli police. Based on Facts.

No, I don't. Because the kidnappings and subsequent imprisoning didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a trigger, fine, but again in my opinion it's a symptom of the larger issues.

 

[Aaron]

It's not hard to hit a large building if your target is immediately next to it, even with today's precision weapons. Besides that, what exactly do you calculate Israel has to gain by deliberately targeting civilian only targets? It only increases international pressure, that is unless you consider them masochists I suppose. Instill fear in Gazans? They certainly don't need to target hospitals to do that, the other air strikes have already done enough of that.

Then they shouldn't shoot next to hospitals, especially when the UNWA say there were no weapons next to them. I think they're going to do as much damage as they can get away with, stop when the international pressure is too much, and start it up again in a few years like they've done in the past. I think they're out to break Gaza, drive as many people out of the country as possible, and destabilize its government. If that wasn't their intentions, they would have changed their methods by now.

 

[RustyNails]

Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

You have any more cute hasbara quote of day

 

[collige]

But this at the very least lends some credibility to the claims made by IDF that civilian facilities are being used to store weapons?

I'm not saying that justifies killing civilians, but it does paint a less black and white picture, as far as IDF intentions are concerned.

Yes, it does lend credibility to those claims. The thing is, those claims are completely irrelevant to the bombing of this particular UNWRA school. The IDF knew there were UN workers there and never once claimed that the school in question was being used to store weapons. In fact, the official IDF account of the affair (posted above) uses the excuse that there were Hamas members fighting them nearby and even then they don't take responsibility for hitting the facility.

 

[collige]

Israel imprisons people, Hamas abducts them.

Israel also destroys the homes of family members of said prisoners.

 

[Tallshortman]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

The Lebanon and Gaza situations are not the same, hence why I said inducing further fear by civilians through such strikes is largely pointless when there is plenty of collateral damage being done by strikes targeting Hamas. Besides that, there's not much more suffering or fear you can subject the Gazans to in conjunction with the current blockade. Besides, Goldstone later said if he had the evidence Israeli cooperation would have afforded him at that time (which admittedly Israel should have cooperated in the first place), several of the points in the Gaza report would have been different.

Then they shouldn't shoot next to hospitals, especially when the UNWA say there were no weapons next to them. I think they're going to do as much damage as they can get away with, stop when the international pressure is too much, and start it up again in a few years like they've done in the past. I think they're out to break Gaza, drive as many people out of the country as possible, and destabilize its government. If that wasn't their intentions, they would have changed their methods by now.

Like I said, I agree they should be more careful in their target selection, and I'm not absolving them for the collateral damage. Though to add to that, the UNWA did say they found rockets stored in some schools which is terrible to hear. I'm just saying I don't buy into the theory that they're deliberately targeting civilian targets. They want to break Hamas, which unfortunately the civilian deaths will keep that from happening.

 

[Messofanego]

No, I don't. Because the kidnappings and subsequent imprisoning didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a trigger, fine, but again in my opinion it's a symptom of the larger issues.

And that symptom is Israel lying about scapegoat events to then have full support to do whatever they want.

 

[Dash27]

And that symptom is Israel lying about scapegoat events to then have full support to do whatever they want.

Yeah why would they suspect Hamas of such a thing. I'm surprised by the amount of defenders the group has.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.600759#!

Hamas political chief Khaled Meshal said Monday that his organization has no new information regarding the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers.

In an interview with Al-Jazeera, Meshal said that he cannot confirm or deny the kidnapping of the three Israelis. "In any case, I congratulate the abductors because our prisoners must be freed from the prisons of the occupation," he said.

We didn't do it but... good job.

 

[pgtl_10]

The term Israel v. Hama's is misleading. Palestinians suffer and to act that Israel is after just Hamas when it kicks Palestinians out of their homes to build settlements and kills civilians serves their propaganda. Also the West Bank and Gaza is one territory. Separating is an long settled Israeli goal to divide and conquer.

 

[KingK]

Yesterday 6000 people gathered in Rabin Square in Tel Aviv to protest against the war. Afterwards, several rightists followed some of us home and I know of at least one guy that's in a hospital. Friends abroad - Please continue pressuring your governments, because the battle from inside seems like it's going to be a hard one :\

Damn, stay safe dude. It takes a lot of courage to keep speaking out against the war considering some of the violence directed at protesters I've read about. Much respect to you. Hopefully you guys are able to convince more of your fellow citizens to oppose this senseless violence. Best of luck, and again, stay safe.

Solely on Hamas? Pretty much I'd have to say yes, or at least the vast majority. Yes.

This is not to say Israel is aways right or shares no blame but there is just no equivalence between the two.

For the West Bank, dialogue with who Abbas? Who was forcibly ejected from Gaza by Hamas and now they want to be buddies. I'm sure that's not encouraging for Israel considering the current situation. That's leaving aside how much power Abbas really has and how big a problem Hamas is for Egypt which of course also has a border with Gaza.

Really? Hamas is stupid and has not been helpful towards the peace process at all, but Netanyahu's government deserves the majority of the blame for the escalation of this current conflict.

Hamas had just formed a unity government with Fatah (those guys in the West Bank who have renounced violence) and had, for the first time that I know of, mentioned that peace along the '67 lines would be acceptable. This is likely because financial and political support for Hamas had been drying up (no more Iran money coming in), so they were forced to moderate and turn to Fatah. That seems to me like significant progress, and something that could be capitalized on to push for a more permanent peace if Israel wanted to. Instead, Netanyahu exploits a tragedy, whips up a nationalistic frenzy, and blatantly lies about Hamas being responsible for the missing teens to go on a rampage through the West Bank; arresting and inuring hundreds without charge, and killing a few others (the similarities to Bush exploiting 9/11 and lying about WMDs to invade Iraq are striking, as are the similarities of US media coverage).

I don't think Hamas should have responded with rocket fire, but that would be easily predicted, and I find it hard to believe Netanyahu wasn't intentionally provoking a violent response considering his lies about the teens and the ridiculous shit he pulled in the West Bank. His modus operandi has been to exploit fear to remain in power and enact his right-wing policies. Fear of terrorists, Hamas, nuclear Iran, etc. Well, Iran is negotiating with the US/EU and others on the nuclear issue (much to the chagrin of Netanyahu), and Hamas had just joined up with a peaceful government (again, much to the chagrin of Netanyahu). Provoking Hamas and responding with this massive invasion/disproportionate response is a great way to tear a wedge in the unity government and give Hamas more power and support again, so he can keep them around as a boogeyman to campaign against.

This is an admittedly cynical point of view, but I have a real hard time ascribing other motives here considering Israel's stated motive for escalating all of this (3 Israeli tennagers were kidnapped by Hamas!) has already been proven to be bullshit, and the government knew it was bullshit. And it's not like there isn't precedence for this kind of thing, both in Israel and elsewhere. Netanyahu is pulling from Bush and Putin's playbooks. Who would have thought ultra right-wing nationalists have so much in common.

 

[pgtl_10]

Yeah why would they suspect Hamas of such a thing. I'm surprised by the amount of defenders the group has.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.600759#!



We didn't do it but... good job.

So we kill and have mass arrests? That's absurd.

 

[RustyNails]

But this at the very least lends some credibility to the claims made by IDF that civilian facilities are being used to store weapons?

I'm not saying that justifies killing civilians, but it does paint a less black and white picture, as far as IDF intentions are concerned.

Holy shit WOW 2 abandoned schools! I feel insulted for thinking 200 fully functional kindergarten schools instead. Hamas are really bad at endangering schoolchildren.

Note: No one is saying they are angels, but lets keep things in perspective.

 

[zer0blivion]

No, I don't. Because the kidnappings and subsequent imprisoning didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a trigger, fine, but again in my opinion it's a symptom of the larger issues.

Netanyahu government knew teens were dead as it whipped up racist frenzy
Max Blumenthal
http://electronicintifada.net/conte...eens-were-dead-it-whipped-racist-frenzy/13533