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[Dai101]

Systematically killed? Really?

Yes. REALLY

 

[Ingueferroque]

No protests in New York?

 

[Buzzati]

Systematically killed? Really? The rest of what you're saying is not at all emotionally charged hyperbole...

You don't think they're being systematically killed? Why are so many civilians buildings being destroyed? They know exactly what they're doing.

 

[Jonm1010]

No protests in New York?

Does that surprise you? It's like the one topic where both parties have come together, with the help of the media and have systematically refused to honestly look at this issue.

 

[ValkyrUser]

A missile hit super close to this guys place while he was streaming. Jump to 10:00 in. It's awful, the guy is ready to break down in tears begging people watching the stream to share what's really happening there. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/50653175

 

[Akainu]

So 11 people died or just one man?

 

[cackhyena]

You don't think they're being systematically killed? Why are so many civilians buildings being destroyed? They know exactly what they're doing.

So explain to me what that is exactly. What benefit do they gain by heaping on the ire of the rest of the civilized world on themselves, "systematically killing" innocents?

 

[Hackworth]

You don't think they're being systematically killed? Why are so many civilians buildings being destroyed? They know exactly what they're doing.

UNRWA is reporting 10% of Gazans have been moved into shelters, rolling blackouts from destroyed powerplants, half of the hospitals in the strip damaged or worse and ~1000 dead, mostly civilians.

If that's not at least systematic destruction of infrastructure, it's extreme negligence bordering on war-crimes.

 

[Chariot]

So 11 people died or just one man?

6 people. 5 women, one man. It doesn't look like a riddle.

 

[werks]

So explain to me what that is exactly. What benefit do they gain by heaping on the ire of the rest of the civilized world on themselves, "systematically killing" innocents?

No peace means the status quo of settlement. Senior israeli officials have also expressed their strong views to ethnically cleanse palestine.

 

[Buzzati]

So explain to me what that is exactly. What benefit do they gain by heaping on the ire of the rest of the civilized world on themselves, "systematically killing" innocents?

Wait a second, I asked you a question first.

 

[cackhyena]

No peace means the status quo of settlement. Senior israeli officials have also expressed their strong views to ethnically cleanse palestine.

Publicly? I mean, disgusting either way, obviously.

Wait a second, I asked you a question first.

Sorry. Of course I don't have the answer. It just sounds insane to me that the prevailing thought is now Israel is doing it because they can. Basically another Russia. They guy above said it best, I think.

"at least systematic destruction of infrastructure, it's extreme negligence bordering on war-crimes."

 

[Dion Blaster]

So explain to me what that is exactly. What benefit do they gain by heaping on the ire of the rest of the civilized world on themselves, "systematically killing" innocents?

Because they know they can obviously get away with it because of who their allies are. What actual ramifications have they faced form the rest of the world exactly?

 

[Valkerionseven]

Probably the US.

Which is why we need to stop sending them billions of dollars to kill people.

It is the US. Israel basically uses stuff we give them almost exclusively. Which is also part of why the stories are spun so much here as opposed to the rest of the world and even Israel.

 

[fse]

A missile hit super close to this guys place while he was streaming. Jump to 10:00 in. It's awful, the guy is ready to break down in tears begging people watching the stream to share what's really happening there. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/50653175

Obviously there was a terrorist there :\

 

[gutter_trash]

''human shields, human shields, human shields''

you can't gather 1000 humans like lemings to act as shields, the whole human shield talking point has been hammered into US cable news so much that even moderates believe anything their TV tells them.

 

[Jea Song]

I don't know why we even aid Isreal anymore. It's like they attack children with drones with our tax dollars in a sense.

Stop the aid.

 

[zer0blivion]

I don't know why we even aid Isreal anymore. It's like they attack children with drones with our tax dollars in a sense.

Stop the aid.

Indeed.

U.S. government: Stop arming Israel
https://campaigns.amnesty.org/campaigns/us-stop-arming-israel

 

[Althane]

Because it helps to have a country there that "likes" us, and serves as a reasonably decent ally in the region?

That, or there's enough money and political power tied up in all of this on both sides that sheer inertia will keep it going.

 

[werks]

BTW the hospital and playground is "old news". I posted a thread about it this morning

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=863329

IDF attacked.
Strike witnessed by NBC journalist and confirmed as IDF drone.
IDF denies and blames hamas rockets.
Every IDF astroturfer goes "Who knows what happened, lets wait and see"


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=122465983&highlight=#post122465983

Right now we have the IDF saying one thing and the Gaza Health Ministry saying another. It is probably prudent we wait to for more information to come out to determine who fired at the UN building.

 

[maharg]

Nothing to say on the part of what Hamas itself stands for and would do if given the power?

It's so nice of Israel to protect the Palestinians from their own baser nature at the point of a gun.

Is there any evidence in this case of who did it. Hamas is blaming idf, idf is blaming Hamas.

Look, there's one group (the IDF) currently bombing Gaza. If either side gets the benefit of the doubt about whether a bomb that explodes inside Gaza is theirs or not, it's the people being bombed. Anything else is just kind of insane. May as well believe every bit of damage done in Gaza is because Hamas, with their twirly mustaches, went around blowing up their own family's buildings until the IDF tells you otherwise.

 

[Lowmelody]

So explain to me what that is exactly. What benefit do they gain by heaping on the ire of the rest of the civilized world on themselves, "systematically killing" innocents?

After telling every person in Gaza that they can reach to head to Gaza City for 'safety', IDF begin to heavily bombard Gaza City. They have bombed refugee camps, hospitals, media buildings and so on. It's to the point now where the question is how isn't this 'systematic killing'? They knowingly and purposefully attack the most concentrated areas filled with the most vulnerable people and even reroute and amass the displaced themselves to attack them with greater efficiency, that is not in dispute and cannot be wished away. The facts need to dictate conjecture and simply because it might not be clear to you why Israel is doing this is simply irrelevant to what has been and is happening.

 

[Hackworth]

After telling every person in Gaza that they can reach to head to Gaza City for 'safety', IDF begin to heavily bombard Gaza City.

This is some new horribleness, I'd not heard of that.

 

[Jea Song]

So Isreal illegally keeps securing more and more land over the years and we the US say we support them? Am I doing this history stuff right? Cause it seems fucked up.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Probably the US.

Which is why we need to stop sending them billions of dollars to kill people.

We send money, but most likely not drones. Israel is the largest exporter of RPAs.

 

[Jobbs]

Just saw video of a little girl (maybe 5 or 6) distraught after seeing a rocket hit her sister as an adult family member tried to comfort her.

this is sickening.

 

[zer0blivion]

So Isreal illegally keeps securing more and more land over the years and we the US say we support them? Am I doing this history stuff right? Cause it seems fucked up.

In a nustshell, yeah.
Israel and Palestine An Easy Animated Explanation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0yy-pzoFg0

 

[Toxi]

Because it helps to have a country there that "likes" us, and serves as a reasonably decent ally in the region?

That, or there's enough money and political power tied up in all of this on both sides that sheer inertia will keep it going.

Israel's a pretty shitty ally.

Though at least they're better than Saudi Arabia.

 

[docbon]

There was an unusually well produced ISIS video that appeared on youtube earlier today. It showed the suicide bombings and mass executions that they were carrying out in gory detail.

One of my greatest fears is that the unending cycle of violence and destruction will breed a similar kind of extremism here.

 

[Dryk]

So the IDF lied about killing children on a playground.

Why am I not surprised?

It's their MO to deny then quietly admit. Anyone pretending otherwise is delusional or lacks basic pattern recognition skills.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Thinking more about the long term of this conflict it's more obvious that the two state solution isn't going to work. Isreal keeps pushing to the right, making for more harsh oppression, which leaves the Palestinans more inclined to lean to more extreme leadership as Isreal provides no alternative to armed resistance. Isreal isn't a good faith negotiator and hasn't proved to be interested in a Palestinain state or peace. I think the long term goal needs to change to citizenship. Full rights, full voting parties.

 

[daisysmurf]

Students offered grants if they tweet pro-Israeli propaganda (August, 2013)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html

Reading some comments in this thread I think since the start of this programme it was extendet to neogaf ...

Seconding this I found this article very interesting on Saturday.


The secret report that helps Israelis to hide facts The slickness of Israel's spokesmen is rooted in directions set down by the pollster Frank Luntz

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-the-secret-report-that-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians

Going by what they say, the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe. Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".

Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.

These are highly illuminating about the gap between what Israeli officials and politicians really believe, and what they say, the latter shaped in minute detail by polling to determine what Americans want to hear. Certainly, no journalist interviewing an Israeli spokesman should do so without reading this preview of many of the themes and phrases

There is more at the link and it is really enlightening to gain an understanding at the very real propaganda war which is being waged against the Palestinians and aided and abetted by many media outlets. It is shameful that here in the UK the BBC which used to stand as the bastion of impartial, independent and truthful reporting has been reduced to a shell of its former self and I have been unable to watch them consistently regurgitate misinformation. Channel 4 on the other hand with Jon Snow has been wonderful.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Israel's a pretty shitty ally.

Though at least they're better than Saudi Arabia.

Its hard to decide for me. Saudi Arabia helped out ISIS with their Iraq invasion, so its like both countries are two sides of the same coin.

Then again, the shit Israel has been pulling these last few years...

 

[Infinite]

No protests in New York?

There were

 

[zer0blivion]

Thinking more about the long term of this conflict it's more obvious that the two state solution isn't going to work. Isreal keeps pushing to the right, making for more harsh oppression, which leaves the Palestinans more inclined to lean to more extreme leadership as Isreal provides no alternative to armed resistance. Isreal isn't a good faith negotiator and hasn't proved to be interested in a Palestinain state or peace. I think the long term goal needs to change to citizenship. Full rights, full voting parties.

But, they can't do that due to the "demography problem." They can't have a Jewish State if the majority of the population are Palestinian. Therefore, they have to keep killing them.

Edit:
The Gaza massacre is the price of a “Jewish state”
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/gaza-massacre-price-jewish-state

[Then deputy prime minister Ehud] Olmert called the unilateral solution Israel’s “great hope,” but Arnon Soffer … offered a less optimistic prognosis. “Unilateral separation doesn’t guarantee ‘peace,’” he warned, “it guarantees a Jewish-Zionist state with an overwhelming majority of Jews.” What will be the price of this achievement? The “day after unilateral separation,” Soffer said, “the Palestinians will bombard us with artillery fire – and we will have to retaliate. But at least the war will be at the fence – not in the kindergartens of Tel Aviv and Haifa.” Soffer was unambiguous about Israel’s response: “We will tell the Palestinians that if a single missile is fired over the fence, we will fire ten in response. And women and children will be killed and houses will be destroyed.” Further down the line, “when 2.5 million people live in a closed off Gaza,” Soffer predicted, “it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will be even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.”

 

[Dryk]

Isreal isn't a good faith negotiator and hasn't proved to be interested in a Palestinain state or peace. I think the long term goal needs to change to citizenship. Full rights, full voting parties.

The Israeli's will never go for it. Look at how even a hint of Muslim influence in the political process riles up people no matter how far removed from the conflict they are. With politics the way they are in Israel and their proximity to the conflict there's no way they will entertain the Palestinians having any sort of power.

 

[Kenshin001]

From Gaza: I Would Rather Die in Dignity Than Agree to Living in an Open-Air Prison
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5627590?utm_hp_ref=tw

They are dying in dignity? They are dying because of their leadership's stupidity, pride and arrogance. Every war the Arabs have fought against the Israelis they end up getting pummelled and humiliated. They should cut their losses and take what they can. Hamas doesn't care about civilian deaths, they care about some kind of victory.

 

[zer0blivion]

Israel is not defending itself, it is ethnically cleansing the Gaza ghetto.

 

[Real Hero]

They are dying in dignity? They are dying because of their leadership's stupidity, pride and arrogance.

They are dying because isreal is killing them

 

[werks]

They are dying in dignity? They are dying because of their leadership's stupidity, pride and arrogance. Every war the Arabs have fought against the Israelis they end up getting pummelled and humiliated. They should cut their losses and take what they can. Hamas doesn't care about civilian deaths, they care about some kind of victory.

Take what?

 

[zer0blivion]

They are dying in dignity? They are dying because of their leadership's stupidity, pride and arrogance. Every war the Arabs have fought against the Israelis they end up getting pummelled and humiliated. They should cut their losses and take what they can. Hamas doesn't care about civilian deaths, they care about some kind of victory.

Read the article, not just the headline. Hamas isn't killing Palestinians, Israel is.

 

[abuC]

There's a live feed of gaza right now and the constant sound of drones is just terrifying.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

There's a live feed of gaza right now and the constant sound of drones is just terrifying.

Wouldn't surprise me if these drones are flying that low just for the psychological effect.

 

[Kenshin001]

Read the article, not just the headline. Hamas isn't killing Palestinians, Israel is.

I read the article. I know Israel is killing Palestinians. There is no dignity in their deaths and so long as the defeated party insist on dictating terms they will keep dying. It's not fair but that's the reality. They're just going to have to accept there will never be a return to the '67 borders and look for a compromise.

 

[Akainu]

Take what?

Nothing obviously.

 

[abuC]

Wouldn't surprise me if these drones are flying that low just for the psychological effect.

That wouldn't shock me either, it's just awful.

http://12160.info/page/live-from-gaza

 

[zer0blivion]

I read the article. I know Israel is killing Palestinians. There is no dignity in their deaths and so long as the defeated party insist on dictating terms they will keep dying. It's not fair but that's the reality. They're just going to have to accept there will never be a return to the '67 borders and look for a compromise.

You don't see anything wrong with that?

 

[cackhyena]

You don't see anything wrong with that?

He said it isn't fair.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Wouldn't surprise me if these drones are flying that low just for the psychological effect.

Probably for better video quality too. Which makes these strikes even more disgusting because they know where they are firing at.

 

[Jonm1010]

They are dying in dignity? They are dying because of their leadership's stupidity, pride and arrogance. Every war the Arabs have fought against the Israelis they end up getting pummelled and humiliated. They should cut their losses and take what they can. Hamas doesn't care about civilian deaths, they care about some kind of victory.

What would they get? The west bank has remained quiet and all they have gotten out of it was more settlements. They form a unity government and Israel undermines it.

Go back to the 90s and Israel is funding radical groups that latter became Hamas to put pressure on arrafat and continuing settlements.

I mean now Israel is electing harder right governments where they have even more draconian views in dealing with Palestine, where politicians openly call to kill Palestinian mothers and condemnation is light. Netenyahu has given no indication he genuinely wants to reach a two state solution and you think that somehow the Palestinian will get something if they just roll over?

Hamas could disarm every rocket they have tomorrow and Netenyahu would still drag his feet because his ruling government and him are not that interested in a two state solution.