Ingueferroque
Banned
Why not post a link? I don't understand.. edit: Oh, you posted it, thanks!
2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]
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Why not post a link? I don't understand.. edit: Oh, you posted it, thanks!
The issue here is that "compromise" seems to involve the West Bank giving up land because people illegally settled there.
Because it's genocide happening to people that don't line our pockets performed by people that do.
Honestly part of me just thinks the Israelis aren't nearly as coordinated as they claim to be.
Shit like that just screams to me that there are intelligence failures going on throughout the system. Likely with a mindset of let's be safe then sorry. We gave them a 5 minute warning and while we don't have great evidence of any munitions or tunnels let's be safe and just bomb it. If they didn't leave it's probably because they were human shields or they were forced to stay.
And with so many bombings and so many different people in charge and running it it just seems they aren't operating with any real restraint or proper coordination and the result is far too many innocents are dying. Plus given how little consequence there seems to be for soldiers that have committed atrocities there are no doubt some people in the system getting away with all out murder.
zer0blivion
Member
The mainstream media is doing their best to whitewash it. The Israeli army are employing every propaganda tool in the book, hiring people to go on social media and defend it. It's infuriating.
Except someone accidentally mixed up the definitions of safe and sorry in their manuals
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-universities-lend-support-gaza-massacre
Israeli universities lend support to Gaza massacre
Two leading Israeli academic institutions are offering strong support for Israels ongoing massacre in Gaza.
Tel Aviv University is giving students who serve in the attack on Gaza one year of free tuition.
Tel Aviv University embraces and supports all the security forces who are working to restore quiet and security to Israel, including its students and employees called up to reserve duty, the institution says in 24 July statement on its official website.
The context for the universitys declaration is that there a witch hunt against Palestinian students [who are citizens of Israel] and others who are posting in social media against the Israeli occupation forces attack on Gaza, Nadim Nashif, director of Baladna the Association for Arab Youth, told The Electronic Intifada.
The university wouldnt say directly that their statement is aimed at such dissenters, Nashif added, but for people here it is clear.
The university statement continues:
Tel Aviv University absolutely condemns and denounces the hurtful and extreme statements being circulated nowadays over social media statements that have no place in the public discourse. The university will take action in accordance with its disciplinary regulations, which are applicable to students and employees, in the any event of any infraction.
It is signed In hope for quieter days.
Meanwhile, Tel Aviv University announced that it would be providing students called up to serve in Gaza one years free tuition and the scholarships would be funded by private donors and friends of the university.
Tel Aviv University president Joseph Klafter expressed his appreciation for students who went to serve in the army and said Tel Aviv University has contributed and still contributes greatly to national security.
tau.jpg
Tel Aviv University waves the flag for the massacre in Gaza.
Israeli attacks killed at least 26 Palestinians since midnight on Friday, including 45-year-old Salah Ahmad Abu Hasanin and his three sons Abd al-Aziz, 15, Hadi, 12, and nine-year-old Abd al-Hadi, Maan News Agency reported.
Israels latest killings brought to at least 825 the number of Palestinians killed in 18 consecutive days of Israeli bombardment.
At least 170 of the dead are children.
More than 5,240 people have been injured and nearly 150,000 are desperately seeking shelter.
On Thursday, at least seventeen people died when Israel shelled a UN-run school in Beit Hanoun in the north of the Gaza Strip where hundreds of displaced persons were sheltering.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-universities-lend-support-gaza-massacre
I got into a huge debate/argument with my girlfriends father over the issue, and one of the things he said was that the government does not necessarily reflect the will of the people. Now I know about the 86% poll I was wondering what kinds of splits there have been in the popular vote in Israel along the right wing left wing line, and how those parties positions to Gaza etc have changed over the years (including a modern day snapshot).
I have run into the point many times when discussing the issue with people, any good resources?
I have run into the point many times when discussing the issue with people, any good resources?
Well, the US backs Israel and will continue to do so. And the European countries don't even have enough balls to show up to a UN vote or piss off the US. So there you go. The US gets to continue to say "because terrorism" and the Euro countries get to say "because the US" while continuing to do nothing! So basically, because all western countries are assholes who only look after themselves ( a point most Europeans on this board conveniently forget)!
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Questions I hope someone answers about today and in general
Today a refugee camp and hospital were attacked today Israel claimed it was Hamas own doing however news crews said it was in fact Israel. I Just saw and interview with wolf blitzer and he was interviewing a Israeli colonel and he DENIED that they shot those rockets, now if he WAS in fact lying why in the blue hell did wolf blitzer not challenge him on it and let it slide?
Also they always say hamas is a terrorist group. I believe the US and some allies sees them as terrorists however other countries do not. Are they terrorists or is it all about perspective and opinion? Also does the UN see them as terrorists? Thanks
Today a refugee camp and hospital were attacked today Israel claimed it was Hamas own doing however news crews said it was in fact Israel. I Just saw and interview with wolf blitzer and he was interviewing a Israeli colonel and he DENIED that they shot those rockets, now if he WAS in fact lying why in the blue hell did wolf blitzer not challenge him on it and let it slide?
Also they always say hamas is a terrorist group. I believe the US and some allies sees them as terrorists however other countries do not. Are they terrorists or is it all about perspective and opinion? Also does the UN see them as terrorists? Thanks
These vile creatures are sub human. The University is basically bribing and encouraging its students to kill the "dirty arabZZ".
If even MSNBC is seen as somehow pro-Israel or anti-gaza/hamas/palestine then I guess this makes sense.
http://www.people-press.org/2014/07...n-israel-for-current-violence/#the-weeks-news
http://www.people-press.org/2014/07...n-israel-for-current-violence/#the-weeks-news
I was disillusioned with that whole movement long ago, once it became evident that it was a circle for old, chauvinistic white men. Nothing of value there to be had for women, people from Muslim/ex-Muslim backgrounds, or hell, anyone isn't an old, chauvinistic white man.
Israel leans right rather heavily, it's difficult to get an exact figure because you have large parties which are hard to pin on the left-right spectrum (or at the very least, it's hard to pin their voters on to such point).
And there is always massive support for pretty much any military action in Israel, at least at the start, because SUPPORT THE TROOPS IN A TIME OF WAR, WHAT ARE YOU A TRAITOR?
TheStruggler
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the missiles that hit a hospital and refugee camp is there sources that say it was Israel because they keep claiming ii wasnt them but they have been caught in how many lies now?
Terra Firma
Banned
If even MSNBC is seen as somehow pro-Israel or anti-gaza/hamas/palestine then I guess this makes sense.
http://www.people-press.org/2014/07...n-israel-for-current-violence/#the-weeks-news
ALL American mainstream media is pro-Israel. The AIPAC is not divided by party lines. There are pro-Israeli Democrats who are pro-Obamacare, etc.
MSNBC may be more liberal slanted (although that is still a joke considering the "left" on the American mainstream media would be considered right of centre in most of the Western world), but when it comes to Israel, it is united with the rest. It is only thanks to the internet that we have so much more dissent. The public is more divided than the media is.
theignoramus
Member
See Lebanon 1982. Menachem Begin and Ariel Sharon went so far that even Ronald fucking Reagan was livid about it. But there were thousands of dead civilians in that war and a death camp ran by an Israeli backed militia
Didn't an NBC reporter say he saw a drone with his own eyes?
Kenshin001
Member
That's tough luck. They are going to have to suck it up. The land was occupied when the Arabs made the dumb mistake of attacking Israel. History is littered with precedents of people having to give up land they lost and never getting it back, the US, Canada, Australia etc. The alternative is the continued death and humiliation of the Palestinian people.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Ya i was wondering if there more sources saying they saw an Israeli drone, because if its just one person it becomes a he said she said game and well you know whos going to win that sadly
How is that?
I think it's a little more nuanced then that buddy.
theignoramus
Member
Israel's leaders have espoused a policy of disproportionate force being reigned down upon areas from which rockets are fired. It's not speculation or hypothesis, the Israelis literally have a policy of collective punishment
Except Israel is still stealing land even in peace time. Israel is offering no alternative to continued death, just a choice between homelessness and a bullet.
You are saying it's "tough luck" and people should have to "suck it up" and leave their homes because the alternative is getting killed or humiliated. Do you not see an issue with that?
Terra Firma
Banned
A simple example would be not talking about universal healthcare. Is there any forum on the mainstream media that even has put up this possibility? Obamacare is not even close.
Most programs that would actually be left leaning end up being canned from so-called left-leaning MSNBC. The only reason that MSNBC is even called left-leaning is because it usually is in agreement with the Democratic party platform.
(and neither parties say a peep against Israel)
speculawyer
Member
The phrase 'terror tunnels' has cracked me up. Seems like silly branding.
makingmusic476
Member
I don't know what the fuck is going on with the media and politicians in the US. Compare the narrative here to that in other countries, or how our politicians react vs theirs, or how the media reports things. Jon Snow vs our reporters, the size of the protests, the votes on the UNHRC.
And then when you look at our own media and politicians, you see the way things are selectively reported, you see the things John Kerry says when he thinks he's being recorded as opposed to when he isn't, and so on.
You see it in the outright fabricated Diane Sawyer report, wherein she claims footage of Gaza being decimated by the IDF was actually footage of Israel being decimated by Hamas rockets.
It's all so sickening.
speculawyer
Member
But the people are still there. Does Israel get to be an apartheid state?
Terra Firma
Banned
The Arabs attacking Israel was not a dumb mistake. Their mistake was not being well prepared to attack Israel. It is natural for any nation to attack some foreigner staking claim to their land.
And that is not how it works in the modern world. You're basically saying might makes right. In a world without international laws and courts, you would be right.
... no? Was it unclear that I was criticizing the movement as a whole?
I'm sure there have been people on programs that have propped up that model. Maybe the majority are realists, knowing Obamacare is a step in that direction, but that it indeed takes steps.
No, I guess I just can't tell if you're throwing Harris in with that group. I mean, it's basically the opposite of everything the guy says and writes about.
Pollux
Member
Except nobody gives a damn about what international courts have to say.
lastplayed
Member
If even MSNBC is seen as somehow pro-Israel or anti-gaza/hamas/palestine then I guess this makes sense.
http://www.people-press.org/2014/07...n-israel-for-current-violence/#the-weeks-news
US public and media support for Israel doesn't end until white Americans die due to an Israeli bomb.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
It's pretty much certain that leaders in Israel believe they have to go all the way and have believed so for a long time, so to them whatever the methods may be the end is a necessity, and anyone who thought Israel wouldn't resolve their "Palestinian problem" by displacing everyone until there was a single state across the whole territory didn't understand why Israel exists in the first place. It's a small country, for a people who believe they have a unique privileged position in the world but of which the position is to remain undermined for as long as it has been if they cannot have a country, so any lost parcel of land to another people is in their eyes a 100 times larger than it is physically. There will never be an actual desire within Israel's leadership to give up on any of the territory it considers its own because it's more than territory, it is a base for an identity's existence.
As for Palestinians who leave, a generation or two later and they will have no interest in going back to Palestine if they manage to integrate economically within the neighboring countries and not stay in refuge camps or ghettos. With a non-existent Palestinian government by then, there will be no interest in going back, nor anyone asking for them to return.
I guess since Hamas is no longer supporting suicide bombings, or has been unable to command any (I'm guessing it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing), it becomes easier for them to gain support abroad, especially in Europe, whereas in the past it was quite a different story with the bombings of buses and restaurants. Now people see rockets as an appropriate response to Israel, so the whole "it's raining rockets" thing has little impact in influencing popular opinion in their favor. The tunnel angle will fall on deaf ears.
Israel's reputation will be impacted for a long time, not only because of the current conflict but because of what is left ahead of them that they believe they must commit themselves to still.
But if there is political resistance in Israel down the line and the situation drags on, Israel will change internally, as fascism inevitably leads to the same conclusions, where in order to keep social cohesion the opposition will be regrouped and marginalized. Things people take for granted today in Israel, such as equality among men and women, gay rights, etc., will all begin to erode as those who stand for such causes will be associated with the same who are a political thorn in the side of those who put priority on the current methods. Divide and conquer is what is done to enemies, regroup and silence is what is done internally to achieve cohesion. The future Israel is one where women are expected to stay home and families are expected to be religiously observant. There will be a desire to form a cohesive social structure out of fear of division erasing the gains made over the previous decades. People today won't believe this is the future of Israeli society, but it's not a question of who, it's simply a matter of cultural survival and it always plays out the same, whether it's Germans, Russians, Japanese, it doesn't matter who. The future of Israeli is one of social conformity, for patriotism, for survival.
As for Palestinians who leave, a generation or two later and they will have no interest in going back to Palestine if they manage to integrate economically within the neighboring countries and not stay in refuge camps or ghettos. With a non-existent Palestinian government by then, there will be no interest in going back, nor anyone asking for them to return.
I guess since Hamas is no longer supporting suicide bombings, or has been unable to command any (I'm guessing it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing), it becomes easier for them to gain support abroad, especially in Europe, whereas in the past it was quite a different story with the bombings of buses and restaurants. Now people see rockets as an appropriate response to Israel, so the whole "it's raining rockets" thing has little impact in influencing popular opinion in their favor. The tunnel angle will fall on deaf ears.
Israel's reputation will be impacted for a long time, not only because of the current conflict but because of what is left ahead of them that they believe they must commit themselves to still.
But if there is political resistance in Israel down the line and the situation drags on, Israel will change internally, as fascism inevitably leads to the same conclusions, where in order to keep social cohesion the opposition will be regrouped and marginalized. Things people take for granted today in Israel, such as equality among men and women, gay rights, etc., will all begin to erode as those who stand for such causes will be associated with the same who are a political thorn in the side of those who put priority on the current methods. Divide and conquer is what is done to enemies, regroup and silence is what is done internally to achieve cohesion. The future Israel is one where women are expected to stay home and families are expected to be religiously observant. There will be a desire to form a cohesive social structure out of fear of division erasing the gains made over the previous decades. People today won't believe this is the future of Israeli society, but it's not a question of who, it's simply a matter of cultural survival and it always plays out the same, whether it's Germans, Russians, Japanese, it doesn't matter who. The future of Israeli is one of social conformity, for patriotism, for survival.
Compared to the continued reality of the death and humiliation of the Palestinian people?
What a shitty world view.
zer0blivion
Member
Dr. Ramy Abdu ‏@RamAbdu
Just wanna let you know: over years of my life under occupation, this is the most barbaric, and horrible night we came through ever #Gaza
https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/493943486542921728
Just wanna let you know: over years of my life under occupation, this is the most barbaric, and horrible night we came through ever #Gaza
https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/493943486542921728
Nikodemos
Member
That already happened. Made a bit of a fuss, then complete radio silence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
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