faceless007
Member
I really have to marvel at the obtuseness required to describe catcalling as innocently as "approaching someone to possibly form a relationship."
Interesting video on street harrassment
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I really have to marvel at the obtuseness required to describe catcalling as innocently as "approaching someone to possibly form a relationship."
They need to do a comparison video with different types of clothing, it'd be interesting. I know people always say "omg they stop dressing up like that" but who are we to say what women should or shouldn't wear? It's like that rape argument, "she shouldn't have been drinking" or the clothes example fits here too, it's all victim blaming.
Pyramid head
Banned
Classy.
I once had a girl shout out at me, "Ay lad! I'd proper fuck your arse!" as I was walking out of Woolworths. You have to imagine it screeched in the coarsest possible scouse accent for full effect.
While I don't disagree with your post in general, it's kinda sad. It can't be healthy to always assume that every man is just out to get you. If you see a man, even in the dark, and your first instinct is fear that he might do something bad, you have a weird picture of man. Be wary, but don't fear all the time.
But in the end this would also explain why guys nowadays seem to have so much problems to get a girlfriend. Women a scared because they feel man will hurt them and man are scared to look like a predator. I'm not saying that this is a fact but it looks like one to me.
Again before jump on me, women should have the right to be not harassed, there is no discussion here. Even if my definition of harassment is different compared to some of you I agree that everyone need to be respectful to everyone.
My last girlfriend was really attractive and her sisters the same. They shared stories of groups of men becoming agitated and violent when they didn't react to their drive-by cat calls and hit ups. "What you think you're too good bitch?! I'll slap the shit out of you!" and such. They're Latina and were also accused of being racist by black and white men a lot.
I mean, these are grown women and you're driving in a car with a few of your friends saying nasty shit to them. Do you expect these women to fall over themselves and jump into the car or something?
I mean, these are grown women and you're driving in a car with a few of your friends saying nasty shit to them. Do you expect these women to fall over themselves and jump into the car or something?
I'm not being obtuse
I get more of response from my incomplete thoughts than complete ones. If you can't read long winded posts then this is what we have to do.
So saying hello isn't a valid way of approaching someone?
hydrophilic attack
Member
I want to be as great a troll as AstroLad one day. He is my inspiration.
Guys who do it are generally terrible human beings.
Last time I was getting a haircut(by 5 points in Atlanta) the guy cutting my hair would literally stop and catcall/harass every single woman(mostly Georgia state students) that walked by. I called him out on not doing that and he pulled the "Lol nigga! You know these college hoes love this". I didn't say anything else. A minute later when he ran to the door to do it again I got up, put 5$ on the chair and left mid cut. It's not acceptable at all, and no woman should have to go through it from a grown man.
It's terrible in Atlanta. Every time I'm walking with female friends or even my old girlfriend you can feel the stares, and I can tell they are not comfortable with it. It's like a complete attitude change in them when they know it's happening. It's not acceptable.
Last time I was getting a haircut(by 5 points in Atlanta) the guy cutting my hair would literally stop and catcall/harass every single woman(mostly Georgia state students) that walked by. I called him out on not doing that and he pulled the "Lol nigga! You know these college hoes love this". I didn't say anything else. A minute later when he ran to the door to do it again I got up, put 5$ on the chair and left mid cut. It's not acceptable at all, and no woman should have to go through it from a grown man.
It's terrible in Atlanta. Every time I'm walking with female friends or even my old girlfriend you can feel the stares, and I can tell they are not comfortable with it. It's like a complete attitude change in them when they know it's happening. It's not acceptable.
DerZuhälter
Member
Oh wow. Now it's suddenely dark and we're in an allyway or a park, right? Ok. Sure.
But just a few seconds ago, harassment in general made her feel this way. So on broad daylight 5th Ave, I say "Hi,.." and trying to continue " ...I'm lost where is", do I still get pepper spray in the eyes because I'm a potential creep, rapist, whatever?
Some are making the issue fit their arguments I feel, not the other way around how it should be.
This stupidass video in the OP, is implying that, glancing and stareing, basically escalates to harassment, which by some accounts start at "Hello", cat-calling and then to assault. That is just fucking plain stupid. And if you want to adjust the law on assault, downwards to cat-calling/harassment I'd be laughing my ass off on how stupid government is, regardless of how that stuff makes women feel.
"Harassment" is no crime and projecting an escalation of it on the harasser still doesn't make it fit a crime.
ExplodingKetchup
Member
DerZuhälter;123715049 said:
I don't know that it won't be assault. I don't know what they're going to do.
I'm not saying that some guy politely saying "Hi" to me is harassment. It might still make me uncomfortable and intimidated, though, depending on who said it and where I was.
I'd say so, yes.
Wasn't aware of the problem until I watched the video and no one should be subjected to that.
Well other than his stupid behavior, if the guy cutting my hair constantly ran off to the door to do that shit... I'd definitely be pissed off as well.
I'd like to share an anecdote that this thread has reminded me of from a few weeks ago:
I was at the gym on a Friday night around 9PM. I was on the bench press and there was a girl that was anywhere from 20-25 working out in the same area as me (I'm 24 just to be clear). She was doing behind the head shoulder presses with a barbell, in a manner in which I had injured my rotator cuff a few months back. In between her sets, I noticed she was massaging her shoulder in the same area where I had hurt mine. After she finishes a set, I tell her that she shouldn't do them behind her head like that because it can hurt her shoulder. Note that I did not even get up from where I was sitting to try to show her how to do it properly.
Since there is some sort of stigma against guys approaching women at the gym and correcting their workouts, instead of heeded my advice or making any sort of recognition of my comment, she gives me a scowl/grossed out look and went about her business doing the exercise the wrong way.
Based on the responses in this thread, I guess I was in the wrong for initiating any sort of contact with this girl and making her think her safety is at risk.
I was at the gym on a Friday night around 9PM. I was on the bench press and there was a girl that was anywhere from 20-25 working out in the same area as me (I'm 24 just to be clear). She was doing behind the head shoulder presses with a barbell, in a manner in which I had injured my rotator cuff a few months back. In between her sets, I noticed she was massaging her shoulder in the same area where I had hurt mine. After she finishes a set, I tell her that she shouldn't do them behind her head like that because it can hurt her shoulder. Note that I did not even get up from where I was sitting to try to show her how to do it properly.
Since there is some sort of stigma against guys approaching women at the gym and correcting their workouts, instead of heeded my advice or making any sort of recognition of my comment, she gives me a scowl/grossed out look and went about her business doing the exercise the wrong way.
Based on the responses in this thread, I guess I was in the wrong for initiating any sort of contact with this girl and making her think her safety is at risk.
DerZuhälter;123715637 said:
In Australia sexual harassment (which is defined as unwanted sexual behaviour that makes the recipient feel offended, uncomfortable or humiliated, and includes staring or leering) is classified as a civil offence, and in some cases actually a criminal offence (ie. in the workplace). I imagine it would be the same in the US and much of Europe.
In the end, this shouldn't really be a controversial issue - if a particular behaviour makes people feel uncomfortable or scared, like leering or catcalling, then don't do it. It's really that simple.
This is a pretty bad attitude to have, but whatever.
Haha something like that happened to me to one year ago on vacation. I approached her and told her she would hurt herself by doing the bench press that way. She told me to fuck off or else she would call the hotel manager. 10 minutes later she injured herself. I wasn't even mad.
It seems that there is actually no way to approach you as a stranger. You might have to rethink you position, you can't live a healthy live in fear.
SolidusDave
Member
I would say yes. Even if it's not taken as harassment (e.g. by someone they wouldn't mind getting their attention), it's still really weird when you think about it, giving strangers compliments on their looks w/o interacting with them first. I don't shout after some dude "wow, nice beard!".
But I have another problem with the video, because they included scenes of guys simply oogling/turning their heads. If you're hot/cute and even dress in an enhancing manner, I WILL check the fuck out of you. As do girls with guys/other girls. I will try to be discreet and not literally stare at you continuously, but there's no way someone can tell me that's now counting as harassment / it's bad because for female sexualization or whatever.
btw I'm not a girl but part of why I like to listen to music with in-ears while shopping etc. is that you don't have to listen to any other humans
While this advice is ok (it runs into the issue that human beings have varying degrees of discomfort) a solution needs to be more comprehensive than this. For example children are taught growing up that staring is poor social behavior but I don't think most parents talk to their preteens and teenagers when going through puberty how to interact with each other when they feel compelled to start staring at each other.
Another example is that some men catcall during periods of idleness. If assignment of work related tasks allowed more people to be more engaged in their work then one of the indirect net benefits would be in a reduction of this behavior.
No you did the sensible thing trying to help someone but that's not what the thread was about. Since her natural reaction was to be defensive she could've had a bad day and didn't want anyone disturbing her reps.
She could have any type of problem that would've encouraged her to scowl at you; but if her specific issue is caused by men speaking to her to make a sexual advance then it would be prudent for men change their behavior or find other ways to address it.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
aye gull
Lovely Salsa
Banned
This is why I never look at women
I cross the street if I see one coming my way
I cross the street if I see one coming my way
Well, I did wait for her to finish her set, so it was said when she was resting. It could tell just from her body language that she felt like I was coming on to her and that was her way of shutting me down. Like I had mentioned, there is a huge stigma of guys approaching women at the gym and undermining their efforts like they don't know what they're doing (especially on the squat rack).
MDSLKTR
Member
Yup. Flattering my ass, the shit I've heard and saw... It's terrifying when you put yourself in their shoes.reading some of the posts in here I can see why a lot of guys on this forum don't have girlfriends
Did you have a shit eating grin on your face when it happened?Did she look at you?
TheSpoiler
Member
Harassment sucks for anyone.
I was on the train a few days ago, and this fucking gross lady kept snapping her fingers at me, trying to get my attention. I paid her no mind, but through my earphones I could hear her say shit like "come get it" and "I'll ride you".
Some of the most uncomfortable minutes I've ever spent on a train, and I live in Chicago.
It's not flattering, it's not nice, and I don't like it. I could only imagine how women feel when shit like this happens to them pretty much every fucking day.
The thing is, even from women men are often taught to play the numbers game.
Help me out here because I don't want to put off women. If I see a woman I'm attracted to while I'm out and about is ok for me to say hello as a way to try and start a conversation?
This video makes me wish women would be the ones to start conversations instead of men. I don't want to offend anyone and so having women who find me attractive come up to me to start a conversation would be better.
This video makes me wish women would be the ones to start conversations instead of men. I don't want to offend anyone and so having women who find me attractive come up to me to start a conversation would be better.
Nope, you are not allowed to initiate any type of contact since it is awkward and uncomfortable. Don't look at them, don't smile, and don't say hi.
grap3fruitman
Banned
No.
block tower
Member
i actually never understood cat clling or trying to randomly get girls attention in public. i see it every now and then on campus but girls usually tell the dudes to fuck off. if im in a situation in public where i think a girls cute, instead of demeaning her by yelling at her for attention, i usually just walk up say "hi" (in a non creepy way) and say tht i find them attractive, asking if i can give them my number. if they say no its all good lol. i dont get cat calling or eye-raping women in public tho, that always came off as verbally rapey and desperate.
EDIT: i hope this doesn't come off as sounding like victim blaming, but it might. why in the scenario with Miss DC on the metro car did she react in that way, while it was completely wrong for the man to do what he did, she essentially did nothing to confront him or stop what was going on. she is lucky he didnt rape her because she seemed to freeze in fight or flight moment to the point of complete helplessness, its bizarre. i had a good friend of mine get her ass grabbed on the street and she flipped shit, made a huge scene and got an officer to arrest the guy shortly after. the way miss DC handled this attack seems like it only made a bad situation worse.
EDIT: i hope this doesn't come off as sounding like victim blaming, but it might. why in the scenario with Miss DC on the metro car did she react in that way, while it was completely wrong for the man to do what he did, she essentially did nothing to confront him or stop what was going on. she is lucky he didnt rape her because she seemed to freeze in fight or flight moment to the point of complete helplessness, its bizarre. i had a good friend of mine get her ass grabbed on the street and she flipped shit, made a huge scene and got an officer to arrest the guy shortly after. the way miss DC handled this attack seems like it only made a bad situation worse.
I don't catcall women that's tacky as hell, I will glance (not stare) back for a second if she's attractive. I'd think some women do the same because I've observed them doing it with me. I did have a woman lick her lips at me once at Walmart but she was hot so I didn't mind. What the women in those videos described are terrifying experiences that no one should be subjected to. The metro situation especially.
That was something alright. I browsed through the video pretty quickly, but that alternative/goth girl and the behavior from some of the men where pretty... Uncomfortable. I don't know why they included the guy - with that quiet voice - turning around going "beautiful" in the video. I just thought that was stretching it in the sense of "harassment".
I've never seen that behavior here in Sweden honestly. Sure, some 16 year old boys going "what's up" and whistling, but not grown ass men yelling shit out like that.
I've never seen that behavior here in Sweden honestly. Sure, some 16 year old boys going "what's up" and whistling, but not grown ass men yelling shit out like that.
KernelPanic
Member
My wife had this happen when she was 13. I guess they don't discriminate.
At best you look like a dumbass doing this, can't figure what goes through someone's head doing this (presumably nothing).
At best you look like a dumbass doing this, can't figure what goes through someone's head doing this (presumably nothing).
I think its all about timing and context.
Are you in a place where making social interaction is okay like a bar? Is it an empty dark alley? Is your initial advance polite or are you saying gross shit? Is the woman actively engaging you or she looks apathetic?
Honestly I dont hit on women on the street because I understand most of them (like the rest of the world) are just too damn busy to indulge my Don Juan shit, im just a dude getting in the way, thats why its so horrid that people get offended at the thought that females might reject their "smooth" (probably awkward) advances or they might think they being creppy.
Well, I take everything I said back, cat calling is suddenly cool and the intent when said to a woman is the same when said to a man since they are in exactly the same spot with the same possibility of getting harrased or raped. #notallcasualharrasement.
Happened to my girlfriend all the time running. Not grabbing or anything, but cat calls. One story was particularly strange, though.
The creepiest thing I heard was there was this guy that was driving the same direction she was running, slowed down, and started talking to her. She had headphones in and just pointed to them like "I can't hear you" and gave him a dismissive look. He drove off and she kept running. She stopped at a gas station to catch her breath and fill her water and the same dude pulled into a parking spot and started talking to her, telling her how beautiful she was and how his daughters needed a mother. She called him a creep and continued her run.
The creepiest thing I heard was there was this guy that was driving the same direction she was running, slowed down, and started talking to her. She had headphones in and just pointed to them like "I can't hear you" and gave him a dismissive look. He drove off and she kept running. She stopped at a gas station to catch her breath and fill her water and the same dude pulled into a parking spot and started talking to her, telling her how beautiful she was and how his daughters needed a mother. She called him a creep and continued her run.
Have you ever picked a woman up who was walking down the street?
I don't think it is wrong to try, depending on the circumstance, but it seems like a nearly impossible feat to successfully hit on a woman that is walking down the street. If they are stopped, at like a bus stop, or in a shop, or something like that I can totally see the chance for success. But making a person stop walking? That seems like hard mode.
Saying hi seductively also falls under cat calling though :|
She thought he had a weapon.
Even if he didn't, the threat of him having one was real. I have been threatened by random strangers before in an environment I would think that is safe. The suddenness of it all can prevent you from thinking fast enough through your options.
MaschinenZimmer
Banned
I don't know anyone from my private circle who asked a girl walking down the streets and got her number or even more. I imagine you must look exceptionally good to get any results. Personally, I wouldn't even ask a women on the streets if I got lost these days. Thank god for google maps.
The Librarian
Banned
Dude, you are purposefully being obtuse. Seductively saying hi to me as I'm walking down the street minding my own business is not okay. How many times do I have to repeat this? It's not okay. All you're doing is making me feel uncomfortable and you're acting creepy.
Er, no. It can be harassment if the man only says one thing to you, like saying, "Hot damn you're beautiful!"
The biggest thing wrong with this post is that you're assuming you knew what she was thinking.
I don't care. That's not an excuse to harass women on the streets.
Since you are using sarcasm, if women do it their intentions are purer than men? If they do it they aren't already harassing?
I agree on the last point that cat calling could beget sexual assault and have said as much. I do take issue though with the assertion cat calling is what leads to it. Men can and do already rape without ever needing to catcall in their life.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Only Tom from Tom & Jerry is allowed to do cat calling, and that was 40's era comedy.
Don't do this in real life. Nod, say hello, keep moving. There's no reason to antagonize random women on the street. They don't owe you or me anything.
Don't do this in real life. Nod, say hello, keep moving. There's no reason to antagonize random women on the street. They don't owe you or me anything.
The Librarian
Banned
Trying to equate the harassment women go through to the harassment men go through misses the point of the video, because it's about women getting harassed, and harms the discussion.
I have picked up girls just walking down the street. I'm also far from good looking. You will get turned down a lot, but some women are just out shopping or something and so they don't mind a little conversation. I don't throw complements at them about their looks or things like that though.
block tower
Member
i guess i can see how saying hi can be considered unwanted attention. although im naturally outgoing with strangers and making random conversation with a girl i find attractive is routine. i know i come off charming inmost cases, im not awkward or creepy, but i can see how this might be intrusive. ill have to examine if im doing this in appropriate ways and settings when it comes to future situations.
to your second point i didn't catch that bit about her thinking he had a weapon, thats interesting . i just have hard time understanding how she just froze like that. it seems like such a jarring situation that you would think at the very least she'd panic and freak out, not just stand there and let him go about his business violating her. but i guess shock can happen, sad situation either way :/
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