I'm not invalidating the general argument about harassment. I'm just saying it's more complex than it being portrayed in the video.
They should've cut the segment with the girl at 1:40ish as she doesn't really help the video. If being catcalled by trashy people is such a big problem because of the way you dress, perhaps dress more modestly (at least for the girl at 1:40). Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world; assholes will continue being assholes.
This argument always baffles me. Assholes are assholes, let's not do anything about them, but lord forbid you women should wear anything other than long pants in public.
They should've cut the segment with the girl at 1:40ish as she doesn't really help the video. If being catcalled by trashy people is such a big problem because of the way you dress, perhaps dress more modestly (at least for the girl at 1:40). Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world; assholes will continue being assholes.
It is actually not complex at all. I don't see how you are not getting this.
Are you seriously thinking you can do something about these people? You're delusional.
I'm genuinely not getting it apparently. Can you explain further please? What defines harassment for you? If a person sees someone they are attracted to on the street and says "you're beautiful" is that harassment? That was one of the clips in the video and they think it was. I disagree.
Men are unable to control their behavior around women then? That's interesting. I guess instead of forcing innocent people to change where and when they walk and how they dress we should just lock up all the men?
Men are unable to control their behavior around women then? That's interesting. I guess instead of forcing innocent people to change where and when they walk and how they dress we should just lock up all the men?
Are you seriously thinking you can do something about these people? You're delusional.
They should've cut the segment with the girl at 1:40ish as she doesn't really help the video. If being catcalled by trashy people is such a big problem because of the way you dress, perhaps dress more modestly (at least for the girl at 1:40). Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world; assholes will continue being assholes.
Not all men are. Wake up to reality.
They should've cut the segment with the girl at 1:40ish as she doesn't really help the video. If being catcalled by trashy people is such a big problem because of the way you dress, perhaps dress more modestly (at least for the girl at 1:40). Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world; assholes will continue being assholes.
I'm not invalidating the general argument about harassment. I'm just saying it's more complex than it being portrayed in the video.
Numerous people have explained this to you, but you seem to be making a huge gray area where there is none.
Not all men are. Wake up to reality.
Men are unable to control their behavior around women then? That's interesting. I guess instead of forcing innocent people to change where and when they walk and how they dress we should just lock up all the men?
"I know the way I dress is kinda provocative,but it doesn't mean I should have to deal with it (harassment)""I like to dress provocatively, that doesn't give men the right to notice."
Fuck outta here humie.
Don't you see the point, though? She says she understands that she dresses provocatively, but that doesn't mean that these guys have a right to do that. It's the perfect sentiment to the movie, because it brings out this exact argument. It's a slippery slope to a type of "she deserved it" attitude, this. We don't live in a perfect world, but it is never a woman's fault when she's being targeted for her style, be it by catcalls or assault. Yes, one can take refuge in other styles, but I applaud those that refuse to budge from their identity, just because 'people are assholes'. They have no right to make her change.
So much so that you're completely unwilling to try and see it from their view, apparently. You're saying a lot of stuff, but it all comes across as hand-waving and misdirection. You're not saying anything of substance, which means your posts simply contribute to get us further away from understanding this problem.
I don't see how you innocently saying hi to a woman can be construed as harassment. It doesn't matter to me, nor do I think to any woman, how handsome the man in question is.
No shit? But lots of them can be educated about their behavior and change. Let's just let them keep on going though. What a crock of shit. I'm tired of seeing this defeatist attitude that seems more like an endorsement of the status quo than anything else. Nothing fucking changes when people keep quiet.
Don't yell at women you see. Not super complex.I'm not invalidating the general argument about harassment. I'm just saying it's more complex than it being portrayed in the video.
I have a hard time believing that physical attractiveness doesn't play a role.
"I know the way I dress is kinda provocative,but it doesn't mean I should have to deal with it (harassment)"
Get out of here if you are going to make up quotes that fit your personal thoughts, humie.
But isn't that what she essentially said though? We live in a vain society of selfies, people who dress a certain way to look sexy/beautiful. If a girls gets her hair and makeup done and her gf says "wow you look hot" and the she walks down the street and a man says "wow you look hot". Is one harassment and the other isn't? Yes her gf is a friend she chose and she knows her and the guy would be a stranger but I wouldn't say the man is wrong or objectifying the woman by that comment.
They should've cut the segment with the girl at 1:40ish as she doesn't really help the video. If being catcalled by trashy people is such a big problem because of the way you dress, perhaps dress more modestly (at least for the girl at 1:40). Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world; assholes will continue being assholes.
But isn't that what she essentially said though? We live in a vain society of selfies, people who dress a certain way to look sexy/beautiful. If a girls gets her hair and makeup done and her gf says "wow you look hot" and the she walks down the street and a man says "wow you look hot". Is one harassment and the other isn't? Yes her gf is a friend she chose and she knows her and the guy would be a stranger but I wouldn't say the man is wrong or objectifying the woman by that comment.
Well damn that was a bit rude...I'm not misdirecting anything just tying to understand people's views vs my views. I think it is an important dialogue to have but there are clearly varying opinions and definitions to some. So go ahead and explain your views and definitions. I'm more than willing to listen an attempt to understand.
"I like to dress provocatively, that doesn't give men the right to notice."
Fuck outta here humie.
[...]I also got the impression that some of these women were over embellishing and/or straight up lying about their "experiences" based on their body language and eye movement.
[...]But they make it seem like it's this huge issue that needs to be addressed when it's a bit more complex than that.
Oh for fucks sake this video is skewed. Fuck them.
As an ugly person I can tell you that attractiveness plays a role in social interactions, especially first meetings. I can tell you how most girls throughout grade grade school and HS looked like they wanted to die having to sit next to me. Only through being a guy that played sports, was funny, and beat up other guys did I get girls in this period of my life to be comfortable with me. In college half the time I sat next to a girl they would look at me and grimace uncontrollably or start to grimace and stop it. Even at most jobs women avoid me until they see a bunch of other guys talking to me who probably tell them that I'm not a bad guy.
I've even tested it with my brother who really handsome. If we approach random women who are out and about he is way more successful than I am and he always makes a point to act like an asshole while doing it. He will open up with, " yo, I want to holla at you for a minute," or some other catcall and there a lot of women who stop and talk with him once they get a look at him. Race and outward style doesn't matter, a lot of women will stop and hear him out.
I have a hard time believing that physical attractiveness doesn't play a role.
No. Someone gave an example about "creepy stares" and another posted a "dictionary" definition.
I love you.I've been reading this thread on my iPad, which makes banning people difficult. I just want to let you guys know that I'm about to head into the next room to my desktop because of how obnoxious some of these posts are. Which guys? You're about to find out.
That would be unwelcome and harassment, yes.I'm genuinely not getting it apparently. Can you explain further please? What defines harassment for you? If a person sees someone they are attracted to on the street and says "you're beautiful" is that harassment? That was one of the clips in the video and they think it was. I disagree.
You're ignoring the problem by not listening to what the women in this thread are saying. It's like your putting your fingers in your ears and humming while we're trying to tell you something. You're essentially saying, "Yeah, well, if it was an attractive dude!"I've even tested it with my brother who really handsome. If we approach random women who are out and about he is way more successful than I am and he always makes a point to act like an asshole while doing it. He will open up with, " yo, I want to holla at you for a minute," or some other catcall and there a lot of women who stop and talk with him once they get a look at him. Race and outward style doesn't matter, a lot of women will stop and hear him out.
I have a hard time believing that physical attractiveness doesn't play a role.
Help me out here because I don't want to put off women. If I see a woman I'm attracted to while I'm out and about is ok for me to say hello as a way to try and start a conversation?
This video makes me wish women would be the ones to start conversations instead of men. I don't want to offend anyone and so having women who find me attractive come up to me to start a conversation would be better.
I was once taking a photo of a girlfriend in the city, and a man drove up next to her and asked her what $5 would get him. She immediately started crying, and he continued asking her.
I may have a skewed perspective myself because I actually met my wife "on the street". First day of college and I saw her walking down the street and I ran over to her and said "you are the most beautiful woman I've eve seen". She smiled and laughed we started walking and talking. In my situation it came from a good place; genuine awe at her beauty.
But I know it comes from a bad place for some guys who just want sex. Did I want to have sex with my wife when I first saw her, yes. But I also wanted to talk to her and get to know her as well. Shades do exists on this topic IMO
I'm genuinely not getting it apparently. Can you explain further please? What defines harassment for you? If a person sees someone they are attracted to on the street and says "you're beautiful" is that harassment? That was one of the clips in the video and they think it was. I disagree.
You're not painting shades. You got lucky with your wife and you're being ultra-defensive and ignoring just what the fuck women are telling you about how they're approached and how they invite it.
But isn't that what she essentially said though? We live in a vain society of selfies, people who dress a certain way to look sexy/beautiful. If a girls gets her hair and makeup done and her gf says "wow you look hot" and the she walks down the street and a man says "wow you look hot". Is one harassment and the other isn't? Yes her gf is a friend she chose and she knows her and the guy would be a stranger but I wouldn't say the man is wrong or objectifying the woman by that comment.
With street harassment? I think you're a rude jerk either way. It isn't trying to chat me up in a bar. It is being a jackass or a creep while I'm on my way to work, or on my way home.
I love you.
If you want to say shit in a bar, sure that's a venue for social communication.
If you want to holler while I'm trying to get to work in the most rude and objectifying of ways, well fuck off.
The difference I think is how these are just random strangers. I would imagine a lot of women would be put off by some guy who looks like Brad Pitt just screaming to them "Aww yeah girl, come on and shake that ass the way I like it now. You know it's too good not to share." as they walk by him on the street. Maybe some women like it, but that's not what the discussion is about. A lot of women don't like it, and for good reason.
I've never found it that difficult to tell the difference between a woman who was in a situation where she might be looking for an approach and a woman who was just doing her business like the rest of us. Generally speaking, strolling down the street at a clip means she's trying to live her life, not get hit on. That's why we have numerous places in which we go to hit on one another, to make it clear that we're there to be approached.
I only know how obnoxious this is because I did what Stooge did, which is follow my wife at a distance down a crowded street. I could only take about ten minutes of it, before I closed the distance, at which point it stopped completely. In that ten minutes, a number of men discussed my wife's breasts, her mouth, and one told her what he would like to do to her in graphic detail. All while my wife was walking, head down, not acknowledging any of it.
There are a lot of guys in this thread immediately rushing to the fringe of the discussion "Oh, now I can't even look at a women" while ignoring the big, fat, juicy center of the discussion. Guys, no one's going to flip out if you glance at a woman. Many women aren't going to be upset if you politely say, "Excuse me, miss..." or "Hello." But if you're so incapable of reading body language that you can't tell the difference between someone trying to get to work and someone looking to be approached, maybe it's better if you didn't hit on random women as if they existed to give you a shot at getting laid.
I got a friend who likes to make kissy faces at women through windows, especially in the car at red lights and stuff. Mostly in like a playful fashion. He says the physical barrier of the glass makes women comfortable with it, presumably because they will often laugh or make faces back. Is this harassment?
I got a friend who likes to make kissy faces at women through windows, especially in the car at red lights and stuff. Mostly in like a playful fashion. He says the physical barrier of the glass makes women comfortable with it, presumably because they will often laugh or make faces back. Is this harassment?
Even a bar isn't an excuse to throw off that behavior as far as I'm concerned. Women shouldn't be afraid that if they go to a bar they'll have to listen to eighteen guys talk about how hot they are or catcall. A guy can still take the time to show some simple graces and treat a person right. Go up to that person and try to have an intimate conversation; and if they turn you down walk away. You don't need to single them out from across the bar and talk about what a fine ass they have.