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[PhoenixDark]

Assume financial responsibility for any costs related to contraception. Women earn less than men, and also have to assume all the physical risk of pregnancy. Further, in instances where contraception involves any amount of physical risk, it is virtually always women who must assume this risk. As a gesture that redresses a minuscule amount of this disparity, heterosexual men should finance the whole cost of contraceptives.

I'm fine with most of the list but this sounds ridiculous to me. Women earn less than men sure. Should we only assume financial responsibility for contraception, or are there other items we must purchase to make up for earning more money than women? What if we have similar salaries, who should pay then? Is it sexist to assume a woman cannot pay for her own medical supplies - or that it is an unbearable burden - and thus a man must help her?

 

[danwarb]

Here's what drives me nuts about the word "nagging:" It's almost always used in reference to women and often, "nagging" simply means "a woman asked you to do something." Its used in a way that shames women out of asking for help (usually involving housework). Also, if a woman has to ask for something multiple times, it means she's being consistently ignored, which is a super bummer.

"Nagging" can also be persistent bullying, at least that's how it was with my grandparents.

 

[Infinite]

The metaphor is pretty obvious in this regard.

It's not actually about who should be treating as kids it's literally about having an even playing field for people since not everyone is born into the world with the same social and economic standings. I feel like you're intentionally being obtuse choosing to see it that way.

 

[gutter_trash]

I treat women with more respect then men.

I don't believe men and women are equal personally. There are certain things men are expected to do more in certain areas, and there are things that women are expect to do more in other areas.

I open the door for my SO, I open the car door for my SO, I help her carry heavy groceries, if she doesn't drive then I will gladly safely pick her up late at night when she is out with her friends.

In a relationship, I don't believe that we are equal 50-50.

The level of respect yes, has to be 50-50 but we are not the same

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

#4 rubs me the wrong way and comes off as slightly sexist. Why should I have to put extra thought into where I sit because it could potentially make someone uncomfortable? The only times Im mindful of seating is if theres elderly people, pregnant women or someone injured that looks like they could use the seat more.

I can understand why an unknown man could make some women uncomfortable, but then the impetus is on them to remove themselves from the situation, not on me to inconvenience myself.

How is this different from saying "Women shouldn't wear revealing clothes because it makes some guys unable not to stare" or "Black males shouldn't dress certain ways because it makes certain folk scared"? I shouldn't have to adjust what I'm doing if it's not doing someone else harm just because of preconceived notions they have of me

 

[daffy]

Sorry but if you need a FAQ the shit is too elaborate

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Am I the only one that finds it wrong that it says "Do 50% or more of..." How is that equal? Doing half is equal, but having the other person do at least half or more, that's equal? Sounds like they want to shift the majority or bulk to the other person.

 

[PdotMichael]

It's not actually about who should be treating as kids it's literally about having an even playing field for people since not everyone is born into the world with the same social and economic standings. I feel like you're intentionally being obtuse choosing to see it that way.

That is a general problem. A woman born in a rich family has more adventages and options than a poor man.

So that's some goalpost moving now.

 

[Mononoke]

I treat women with more respect then men.

I don't believe men and women are equal personally. There are certain things men are expected to do more in certain areas, and there are things that women are expect to do more in other areas.

I open the door for my SO, I open the car door for my SO, I help her carry heavy groceries, if she doesn't drive then I will gladly safely pick her up late at night when she is out with her friends.

In a relationship, I don't believe that we are equal 50-50.

The level of respect yes, has to be 50-50 but we are not the same

Isn't that your choice to make it not equal?

 

[ronito]

Tumblr: Achieving equality by treating people differently!

 

[Fari]

Tumblr is just a blogging platform. The author just happens to an academic who uses Tumblr.

But the content of these Tumblr blogs tends to be thematically similar.

They're almost always about feminism or LGBT rights, sometimes interspersed with subtitled gifs of Doctor Who or some other nerd show. It's like they're all written by the same person.

 

[Dragonborn]

I have a friend going through this now. She really wanted to keep her own name, not just because she's attached to it, but also for professional reasons, but her husband and his family wouldn't stand for it. She waited until the last possible moment to change it (before it would require a full legal suit to change) and really tried to convince him out of it, but finally she caved. I think she's legitimately sad over it. Most of the women I know (including myself) kept their own names, but we all have professional licenses that make it easier to do so, too. It's awesome though, that this is now an option for (some) women (with growing acceptance).

Yup, that's just shitty. If he wouldn't change his name, he shouldn't force her to. Sad to hear that. What's worse is, when I was young I used to think the same thing. Until I realize I was just being a hypocrite. I still can't budge on the child issue though. :/

 

[Josh7289]

Treat everyone the same.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Tumblr: Achieving equality by treating people differently!

Magical thought process idea engine my friend.

 

[Skinpop]

Tumblr: Achieving equality by treating people differently!

exactly what I thought reading the list.

 

[EviLore]

26. Find female mentors/leaders. (i.e. Be subordinate to females.)

29. Offer to accompany female friends if they have to walk home alone at night… or in a public space where they may be likely to feel unsafe


So, actively seek being subordinate to women, but escort them home at night without them having to ask you to since the real world is scary and the poor little dolls can't get on without you?

Tumblr Feminism.

 

[Infinite]

"Men should pay for all of contraceptives." That just seems absurd to me. I feel that both people should be paying and they should decide what works best for their situation. Saying "women take on the risk" is assuming that men are going to be dead-beat dads (which I understand does happen a lot). But it kind of justifies it. Like, it's saying "Well I paid for the contraceptives, so if you still get pregnant I did my part. Now you gotta do yours. Bye."

You misunderstand that point. First of all I don't know any body who don't buy their own condoms. That's just trifling. Secondly contraceptives for woman such as birth control do put their health at risk and present very weird changes to their bodies. I have a friend who took birth control and suffered a stroke as a result of it now she has permanent short term memory loss and her life will never be the same. So yes women do take a huge risk even in taking oral contraceptives. Not to mention they're significantly more expensive than buying condoms.

 

[Keri]

"Nagging" can also be persistent bullying, at least that's how it was with my grandparents.

Yeah, the word has a broader meaning, but the way that its used is mostly directed at women who just asked for something, which is problematic. I mean, the cliché is the "nagging housewife." I think if you asked more women, a lot would tell you that they're sensitive to this word and, to avoid being a nag, will often just do more housework themselves (for example).

 

[SenorArdilla]

I'm fine with most of the list but this sounds ridiculous to me. Women earn less than men sure. Should we only assume financial responsibility for contraception, or are there other items we must purchase to make up for earning more money than women? What if we have similar salaries, who should pay then? Is it sexist to assume a woman cannot pay for her own medical supplies - or that it is an unbearable burden - and thus a man must help her?

From the FAQ:

8. Be responsible for contraception.

a) Doesn’t a man paying for contraception lessen a woman’s economic autonomy?

I mean, I guess you can look at it this way in an abstract, symbolic sense, but in a concrete sense it gives her more money in her pocket. Women who pay for their own contraceptives concretely have less money in their own pocket that they could use to pay for other things. Women don’t acquire more economic autonomy if their male partner doesn’t pay for contraception and just spends more of his money on himself instead.

b) Why shouldn’t it be 50/50? That seems more fair.

Because we live in a world where people with uteruses have 100% of the physical burden of pregnancy and also virtually all the physical risks with every form of currently available contraception except vasectomies. Not 50%. So if you have well less than your fair share of these physical burdens, I think it’s fair for you to assume a lot more than 50% of the financial burden.

c) If it’s for a woman’s body, why should a man pay for it?

Because both of you derive benefit from it, but she has all the physical risk. Because the fact that there aren’t more contraceptive options available for people with pensises is not a matter of biological necessity, but because we live in a world that expects women to be willing to assume embodied risks of preventing unwanted pregnancy but thinks men can’t or shouldn’t be expected to make this same sacrifice. The reason that contraceptives are made for women is because we live in a world where men’s bodies are treated with more value and care than those of women. Most women don’t generally ENJOY putting stuff in their bodies to prevent pregnancy, they do it because they don’t have other choices. And, again, the fact that they don’t have other choices reflects sexist practices and assumptions within the medical community about whose bodies should be made to assume risks and responsibility.​

 

[GYODX]

As with most people, most of this list seems like common sense to me, while a couple of items just seem downright unreasonable and illogical.

 

[angular graphics]

In other words "don't be a dick"?

.

 

[Reuenthal]

After reading that F.A.Q and the list I have reached the obvious conclusion that the writer of that list is a dumb sexist.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I think were on the same page it's just you're hesitant to use the feminist label in respect to some of these. In that case, does really matter to you if people think of these as furthering the feminist cause or just "not being a dick" people since we already agree that feminism at its core, generally means "let us not be a dick to you because of your gender"?

It's not so much that I don't want to attach the word feminism to the list, there's things on that list that (to me at least) are of the 'people in my life' and 'everyone else' ilk. If my wife tells me something is sexist I'm more inclined to believe her than any other person, male or female. I guess the point im trying to make is that if you're a regular non sociopathic male who is nice and isn't inclined to treat someone worse because they have a vagina, some of the points made are kind of redundant. I will say that the positives of a list like this is that it can highlight some things that some people might normally glaze over or not be fully aware of.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

I am completely for equality, this is what I believe, how I hold myself and how I treat others. I am not ever going to be a part of gender worship or gender praising. Just because someone has a penis or a vagina does not entitle them to any sort of special treatment, at all.

 

[F0rneus]

Even with the FAQ's explanations, a lot of this list is downright unreasonable and IMO, quite frankly, plain weird.

 

[daffy]

"Why shouldn�t it be 50/50? That seems more fair.

Because we live in a world where people with uteruses have 100% of the physical burden of pregnancy and also virtually all the physical risks with every form of currently available contraception except vasectomies. Not 50%. So if you have well less than your fair share of these physical burdens, I think it�s fair for you to assume a lot more than 50% of the financial burden."

What. A. Crock of shit. I want to see the bank account of the idiot that eats this trash up.

 

[Infinite]

It's not so much that I don't want to attach the word feminism to the list, there's things on that list that (to me at least) are of the 'people in my life' and 'everyone else' ilk. If my wife tells me something is sexist I'm more inclined to believe her than any other person, male or female. I guess the point im trying to make is that if you're a regular non sociopathic male who is nice and isn't inclined to treat someone worse because they have a vagina, some of the points made are kind of redundant. I will say that the positives of a list like this is that it can highlight some things that some people might normally glaze over or not be fully aware of.

Yes, if you're already actively doing most of things on this list than it would be hard to gain anything further from it.

 

[Into]

Last thing I will say on the sitting/road crossing issue:

I think if a man can do it out of pure thoughtfulness and consideration I think it's a wonderful idea. However, for me at least, O found it was very easy to get sucked into thought patterns like "this girl is going to think I'm a creep if I sit next to her" or "that must have impressed that girl when I chose not to sit next to her". And thoughts like this reinforced my need for approval from women and sexual shame.

I'm still working through my sexual shame: basically being afraid to express my sexuality for fear of offending a woman (instead of just learning to express it respectfully) and these behaviours reinforced it.

I think these ideas are great, and I continue to sympathize with women's concerns. I'm just more conscious now of making sure it doesn't interfere with my personal well being.

And what about minorities? They would be zig zagging through the street because people may have fear of them? Not just women but men also? It would take me 45 min to get home from work rather than 20

Is that fair? You want me to accommodate you more because of your "sexual shame"?

I can tell you right now, i aint crossing no street for no one. And ive never been told i treat women poorly, quite the contrary, nor do i have any shame other than the one the society as a whole is trying to put on me.

 

[Sketchbag]

I'm sorry, author, but number 16 and its answer is weird. Sure, there is a history of economic power but I'm in the bracket where men and women make the same. We're not executives over here. We're all making just above minimum. Never understood the money privilege angle.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Don't be a twat, don't argue, and accept I'm assumed to be a rapist in public places. Easy peazy.

 

[Kayhan]

23. Don’t treat your spouse like a “nag.” If she is “nagging,” you are probably lagging.

What a stinker.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Don't be a twat, don't argue, and accept I'm assumed to be a rapist in public places. Easy peazy.

 

[The Librarian]

Seems like a pretty good list.

 

[user8503492]

Treat everyone the same is what I do and just basic chivalry for women (hold doors and such)

List reads like any other progressive nonsense aimed at the 18-24 year old, college educated, dreamer bullshit.

Takes this list to lower middle-class 35 year old "Tony" who works on the road crew all day while he's wife "Sally" works at company X finance department doing data entry. 3 kids and a dog who shits on the floor. A leaky roof Tony fixed 3 times trying to fix which lead to his nagging shoulder pain.

This shit might fly for Rob who has a Masters in engineering, enjoys vegan Tuesday, does biceps and back on Thur and his wife Sally the biochemist whos a yoga fiend.

One of those couples wants to have a deep emotional give and take, maybe some tantric sex between discussions on moving to Austin or Portland is a good idea..
The other just wants to lay his broken body down on the couch and have everyone shut the fuck up..maybe later convene with the other Vikings like they have done for centuries and discuss the serving wrenches knockers..

 

[Drpunch]

You misunderstand that point. First of all I don't know any body who don't buy their own condoms. That's just trifling. Secondly contraceptives for woman such as birth control do put their health at risk and present very weird changes to their bodies. I have a friend who took birth control and suffered a stroke as a result of it now she has permanent short term memory loss and her life will never be the same. So yes women do take a huge risk even in taking oral contraceptives. Not to mention they're significantly more expensive than buying condoms.

The health risks of oral contraceptives are greatly exaggerated. Yes, there is a risk, but it is incredibly small. The chance of a stroke/clot is increased ~3x, but the risk normally is 1/10000 or 0.0001%. Millions of women use them and don't run into any problems. Hell, you have a much greater chance of getting a clot while pregnant than with oral contraceptives. This whole thing is another 'controversy' the media has run with and made a big deal out of due to the amount of women who take them.

 

[Enco]

Yea I'm good thanks. I'll stick to being a normal person who respects people equally.

 

[RELAYER]

This list comes off as very dehumanizing towards males.
It's like the author thinks men should be nothing more than ever-vigilant arbiters of some sort of Platonic feminine principle that each woman embodies.
Just tools to be used for female empowerment, defined only by how the relate to women.

 

[Overdoziz]

What if there are women walking on both sides of the street?

 

[Keri]

On physical space: Men don't seem to have any problem giving other men physical space, so just do the same for women. The amount of times I've had men unnecessarily stand right next to/against me, on empty sidewalks or empty elevators or had men choose to sit next to me, in completely empty train cars...is NUTS. It's intimidating and weird and you never see the equivalent, with two men.

 

[NastyBook]

Examples: If a seat is available on public transit next to a man, take that seat rather than one next to a woman. If you are walking outside in the dark close to a woman walking alone, cross the street so that she doesn’t have to worry someone is following her. If a woman is standing alone on a subway platform, stand some distance away from her.

Huh. As a black man, all I can see is "keep doing what you're doing," so I guess I'm good!

 

[ManDudeChild]

Even skimming the FAQ, this article like many others before it, does NOTHING to actually move towards equality. There's some fine dont be a dick tidbits sprinkled about, but mostly .... I want the time I took to click this thread back.

 

[Sai-kun]

Good list. Agreed with basically all of it.

 

[Enco]

Since women are the ones who are disproportionately affected by the consequences of HPV, as a matter of fairness men should be the ones who at least assume the potential risks**** of getting vaccinated.

Assume financial responsibility for any costs related to contraception

19. Pay attention to the gender of experts and key figures presenting information to you in the media.

23. Don’t treat your spouse like a “nag.” If she is “nagging,” you are probably lagging.

20. Ensure that some of your heroes and role models are women.

29. Offer to accompany female friends if they have to walk home alone at night

30. Inject feminism into your daily conversations with other men

A few select highlights. Funny stuff.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

3. Consume cultural products produced by women.

4. Give women space.

18. Don’t ogle or make comments about women.

20. Ensure that some of your heroes and role models are women.

21. Praise the virtues and accomplishments of women in your life to others.

25. Befriend females.

28. Don’t police women’s appearance.

These ones and the ones like them, seem very counter-productive to me. Shouldn't treating everyone equally be the goal? These ones in particular seem to be saying that women deserve special treatment, but hey this is okay since the special treatment is positive.

3. Consume cultural products that are good, don't take gender into account.

4. Give personal space when appropriate, don't take gender into account.

18. Don’t ogle or make comments, regardless of gender.

20. Ensure that some of your heroes and role models are..heroes and role models, don't take gender into account.

21. Praise the virtues and accomplishments of everyone in your life, don't take gender into account.

25. Befriend friendly people, don't take gender into account.

28. Don’t police people's appearance, regardless of gender.

 

[kirblar]

HPV Vaccine really should just be mandatory for both genders.

 

[Dragonborn]

On physical space: Men don't seem to have any problem giving other men physical space, so just do the same for women. The amount of times I've had men unnecessarily stand right next to/against me, on empty sidewalks or empty elevators or had men choose to sit next to me, in completely empty train cars...is NUTS. It's intimidating and weird and you never see the equivalent, with two men.

There's plenty of times when it happens. If I'm walking down the street and I see a guy coming towards me, I'm not going to move. I'll keep walking, he'll either step aside or bump into me (unless the dude is huge, in which case I'll be the one to step aside, it just depends). On a bus, I honestly don't give much thought.

If it's full I'll just sit wherever it's more convenient be it next to a girl or a guy. With space issues, I just take the space I need and nothing more. If some dude is invading my space he'll hear about it.

 

[entremet]

I'm sorry, author, but number 16 and its answer is weird. Sure, there is a history of economic power but I'm in the bracket where men and women make the same. We're not executives over here. We're all making just above minimum. Never understood the money privilege angle.

The issue with women and pay is more complex than most gender equity discussion bring to the table. If you're comparing yourself to C-Level executives, whom still are mostly men, yes there is a disparity. But most men are not C-Level executives and many men work jobs that are far from glamorous, low paying and have limited promotion opportunities--ditch digging, construction, lumberjacks--and very dangerous as well.

The economic collapse of 08 affected traditional male jobs at a higher rate and minority males have higher unemployment rates than minority females. More women also attain college degrees.

But if the narrative will be continually about women being economically disadvantaged and that men have to pay to make up the difference, we're looking at things more myopically than would give us a bigger and more nuanced picture.

I'd love a more balanced discussion of both men's and women's issues along with the effect of race and class. But right now it seems that movements are more adverbial in nature, which is sad.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

What if there are women walking on both sides of the street?

There's still the street itself. It'll be worth it seeing their collective sighs of relief at you moving out of the way (just don't stare and them looking for it)

In all seriousness, maybe it's just me but I still can't get over number 4. Out of everything on the list, as ridiculous as some of them are, it irks me the most

 

[Carcetti]

The problematic line is

When a woman tells you something is sexist, believe her.

Women are just as capable of being wrong as men. The whole wording on that reminds me of those 1950s guides for women. "When your man comes home after a rough day at work, say yes to everything he says."

There's a tons of good rationale for that in the FAQ, like

So when a woman is feeling hurt by something that happened to her and she feels it was sexist, you don’t lose anything by believing her and supporting her in that moment and telling her that she shouldn’t be made to feel that way.

But blindly believing something is blindly believing something. Should've found a better way to say this, such as

"Don't enter needless debates with women about sexism if you haven't researched anything"

 

[besada]

Am I the only one that finds it wrong that it says "Do 50% or more of..." How is that equal? Doing half is equal, but having the other person do at least half or more, that's equal? Sounds like they want to shift the majority or bulk to the other person.

If only you'd bothered to read the FAQ, you might see that your concern has been addressed. The suggestion is to do 50% or more. The or more acknowledges that for most of us, for a very long time, women have done considerably more than 50% of the housework. So, if you feel that you're in the situation where you've allowed that inequality, you can feel free to do a little more than 50%. If you aren't, if you've always done half the house work, then 50% is fine, and you're all good. Congratulations!