Exotoro
Member
yeah that seems to be my line of thinking as well
whenever people talk about how disappointed they are with landing lag and other competitive disadvantages I'm just like "huh?"
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XI: Where 90% correct equals 100% wrong
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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yeah that seems to be my line of thinking as well
whenever people talk about how disappointed they are with landing lag and other competitive disadvantages I'm just like "huh?"
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Wait, someone finally translated recently column? Can you send me a link please?
Man fuck that creepy motherfucker. I'd rather see SA-X
MrSaturn99
Member
The Yellow Devil was a fun idea on paper and might be worth some laughs now and then but as he was in the E3 build he was incredibly disruptive and persistent, and killing him didn't really even accomplish anything. It was pretty disappointing, and I hope that if we can't toggle him off they at least make him, well, fun.
Welp.
Actually, stupid thought: Are there any pic of the days or media releases confirming that stage bosses are a feature?
The wording in the direct is "Boss characters appear on other stages, not just this one." This is actually true as soon as he said it, without having to show anything else, as two bosses from Zelda appear on Gerudo Valley.
What if we're blowing the stage bosses thing out of proportion, and defeatable stage bosses aren't something other stages have at all? While it would seem odd, isn't is pretty odd that we haven't seen a single other defeatable stage boss?
The wording in the direct is "Boss characters appear on other stages, not just this one." This is actually true as soon as he said it, without having to show anything else, as two bosses from Zelda appear on Gerudo Valley.
What if we're blowing the stage bosses thing out of proportion, and defeatable stage bosses aren't something other stages have at all? While it would seem odd, isn't is pretty odd that we haven't seen a single other defeatable stage boss?
Mr. Smiley
Member
I don't really follow the competitive scene or use much advanced tech but I won't lie and say that stuff doesn't bother me. It just makes a game too slow and boring that even if you cram it with a bunch of content (a la Brawl) I won't be coming back to it like I do Melee.
BassForever
Member
PadWarrior
Member
Agreed
Beelzebufo
Banned
Pyrosphere during the day
Landing lag and awkward movement makes the game less fun for everyone lol.
There may be mountains of other competitive fighting games available but none of them are the same as smash or have the potential to be as good as a smash can on a good day.
Nah man you just press buttons and things happen on the screen which is fun! That stuff doesn't matter.
Nah man you just press buttons and things happen on the screen which is fun! That stuff doesn't matter.
That's a hazard, not a boss, lol.
well huh
PadWarrior
Member
Masked Man, Geno, Shulk, Kamek.
5. Wailord
2. Dillon
2. Baby Bowser
2. Chorus Men
1. EBA
Are you sure? It says volume 458 -- to put that in perspective, Sakurai's 455 and 456 columns focused on Mii Fighters and Pac-Man, respectively. It's from the most recent issue of Famitsu.
Spinosaurus
Member
The real reveal IS Wario so what are you talking about?
Exotoro
Member
go into detail at least then
because honestly I don't know what you're talking about
GiantBreadbug
Member
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that quote is to address grown babies who act like the game not being absolutely perfectly tuned for competitive play as defined by a small community of people is a travesty and ruins the game.
I'm gonna disagree partially. Brawl's items, such as the Smash Ball, Dragoon Parts, leagues of Assist Trophies and Pokeballs where the effects aren't immediate, smokeballs, stickers, and CDs that do nothing, and an increased amount of faulty hammers make it harder to play casually than Melee, because it'll require a casual player to learn what those items are. Melee, on the other hand, doesn't really have items that's effects aren't immediate. So if you're going to just play casually with items on, Melee's the better game, in my opinion. L-cancelling and wavedashing won't affect playing in a casual style enough to make the game unenjoyable, whereas getting items that work much better if you know their use will.
Landing lag is where you get stuck in an animation for a certain amount of time when you land in the middle of doing an aerial attack.
Having it be too long makes it feel like you're playing on a platform made of glue.
Nope, there's nothing in his column that makes it sound like he's not completely generalising the entire competitive fanbase.
Also "I have to make it so that people who aren't used to videogames see/experience the same things as gamers" quote is completely stupid if you ask me, based on the context he put it in. If a player isn't good enough to reach that level then they should either try to get better or just enjoy the level they're at, people should not be on an equal level if there's a skill disparity and even then, items and stage hazards are apparently supposed to be your equaliser, not butchering the base game mechanics.
I'm also fine with how Sakurai sees Smash. People are gonna make things competitive regardless of the original intention of the creator. Melee just so happens to have had some elements uncovered that were geared useful toward higher level play.
I personally never really looked at Smash as a bonafide fighting game anyway. A friend and I recently actually tried to even place it in a genre and create a name for it but we just refer to it as a "Party Fighter" lol
I personally never really looked at Smash as a bonafide fighting game anyway. A friend and I recently actually tried to even place it in a genre and create a name for it but we just refer to it as a "Party Fighter" lol
Exotoro
Member
I thought a ton of people said that if you don't L-Cancel you're basically at a disadvantage?
Yes I remember this happening when I played the 3DS demo. It was horrible. Hopefully they tone it down a bit.
Dr. Buni
Member
[QUOTE="D";123986954]I'm also fine with how Sakurai sees Smash. People are gonna make things competitive regardless of the original intention of the creator. Melee just so happens to have had some elements uncovered that were geared useful toward higher level play.
I personally never really looked at Smash as a bonafide fighting game anyway. A friend and I recently actually tried to even place it in a genre and create a name for it but we just refer to it as a "Party Fighter" lol[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
I personally never really looked at Smash as a bonafide fighting game anyway. A friend and I recently actually tried to even place it in a genre and create a name for it but we just refer to it as a "Party Fighter" lol[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
WiiRevolution1
Member
So I need a pc. My pc sucks (its a netbook), I don't even think I could get a usb controller to even work on it lol. But I'll try and import it and play it one day. A game I was interested in for awhile. Maybe it'll release on US VC one day.
Thanks for the info.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
You can't give out a link to websites or threads with scans because it's a bannable offense.
Beelzebufo
Banned
But things don't even happen when you press buttons if there's landing lag!
Is this from the most recent famitsu, or is the older interview where he said much the same thing?
While I love watching highly competitive fighting games (despite not being able to play them at all), I have to say that something about the "advanced techniques" used in melee looks really stupid. I've got no problems with people using them, I love to watch competitive melee, but some things people have to do to get the most out of the physics just looks really wonky, as the game wasn't really designed to utilize those mechanics. Compare that to other fighting games where, if you are doing the right thing, you'll most likely look really cool. (with a few notable exceptions)
I really hope the new smash can find some competitive ground, but I have a feeling that if it's slower, people are just going to write it off and stick to melee/PM.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Why do you care if you don't compare about competitive stuff? Do you feel like you're at a disadvantage when you play Smash 64?
It's a difference of a small amount of frames. In highly competitive play, it can make a difference. In non-highly competitive play, it won't. Especially in play with items on, where having an item spawn close to you is arguably the most important advantage to have.
As for wavedashing, that can make a good difference in highly competitive play, but in casual play, only Luigi really benefits from it due to having that weird ass gravity.
If you play Pokemon, I would compare it to IV breeding. It won't make a difference ever unless you play very competitively.
Exotoro
Member
huh?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Have you ever played Smash 64? Did you L-cancel while playing? Did you feel like you were at a disadvantage?
Most people would prefer just having shorter landing lag than bringing back L-cancelling.
We don't want the competitive scene completely inaccessible to the casual fanbase, despite what some people seem to want to think, including Sakurai.
The competitive scene doesn't grow without new players and input barriers scare them off.
I'm also not bothered about wavedashing for a similar reason, but no crouch cancelling and neutered dash dancing is something I'll never understand.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I'm back home from my vacation, will look into Takamaru etc tomorrow I hope.
Exotoro
Member
never played smash 64
L-Cancelling is like the speed IV in pokemon. That one that actually matters, and will help quite a bit in several situations. Shield grabs are so prolific at low levels, and l-cancelling does so much to help against that.
OricWindstar
Member
Looking forward to it! Thanks for all your hard work.
Competitive, noncompetitive -- such labels miss the point.
I just want to feel like I'm in control.
I could be playing the game with zero fucks given about winning, I could be playing in a party setting and "just for fun," but you know what? Random shit occurring and interrupting the actions you're trying to carry out isn't fun. Losing sight of your character amid a hailstorm of flashing shit onscreen isn't fun. It can be, sometimes, but often it's just irritating.
That's why I usually like to turn items off. It's nothing elitist about being "competitive" or any such thing. It's just that when I play, even casually, and just to party, it's only fun when I feel like I'm doing what I intend to do. You can play, with no concern about winning whatsoever, and still have more fun when the focus is on zoning, anticipation, attacking and evading.
I just want to feel like I'm in control.
I could be playing the game with zero fucks given about winning, I could be playing in a party setting and "just for fun," but you know what? Random shit occurring and interrupting the actions you're trying to carry out isn't fun. Losing sight of your character amid a hailstorm of flashing shit onscreen isn't fun. It can be, sometimes, but often it's just irritating.
That's why I usually like to turn items off. It's nothing elitist about being "competitive" or any such thing. It's just that when I play, even casually, and just to party, it's only fun when I feel like I'm doing what I intend to do. You can play, with no concern about winning whatsoever, and still have more fun when the focus is on zoning, anticipation, attacking and evading.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Beelzebufo
Banned
Okay, Melee then? Having stuff like L-canceling (or shorter landing lag) doesn't affect people just playing for fun at all, it just makes everything better for people who know what it is. Why not have it?
Also, welcome back Neorice!
WiiRevolution1
Member
He's not disconfirmed yet!This list doesn't have Mallo, a character owned entirely by Nintendo, in 3 recent games, a sumo wrestler (the type of fighter smash still doesn't have), AND one of the best new IPs from Nintendo.
Therefore the list is invalid.
He's the hero we NEED!
I really thought there would be a eShop rep, really weird if there wasn't but it doesn't look likely. Mallo and Tempo are the only two left. (And they, along with Dillon were the most likely...hhhmm...)
Sakurai is apparently terrified of someone good at the game being able to beat someone worse at the game due to being more skilled/knowledgeable about it.
Apparently that's supposed to be a bad thing.
Oh, it does matter a lot at the competitive level, don't get me wrong. But in a casual environment, if some people walk into a dorm room, or someone's mom wants to play with them, they're not going to feel like they're seriously gimping themselves by not knowing what an L-cancel is. Whereas, if someone else gets a Smashball and knows what to do with it, and then they get one and they waste theirs because they have no idea what it does, they're gonna feel kinda bummed.
I'm also in the party for not having L-cancels back, though. Just make aerials less laggy. Playing Project M online, it feels cheap when someone L-cancels a lot of the time, because the lag from playing online makes l-cancelling feel almost dependent on luck.
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