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[Twilight Gap]

I wonder if I'll live long enough to witness the tipping point that leads to the day when this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.

But since I'm not white I probably wont.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

meanwhile

Why does someone need a machine gun to buy some pork chops.

 

[Jito]

You could ignorantly say that about any geographical location when possible injustice happens aka everywhere.

Surprisingly cops shooting innocents is more common in America than England. I wonder why?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Why does someone need a machine gun to buy some pork chops.

Sean Hannity.

 

[Foggy]

As a human being it should look fucking stupid for people to walk around with firearms. What is wrong with people?

As a fellow Brit the thought of America actually scares me, I just cannot get my head around gun culture.

It shouldn't scare you, but at this point I couldn't blame anyone for feeling that way

 

[JoeInky]

Surprisingly cops shooting innocents is more common in America than England. I wonder why?

Our cops don't have enough freedom to do whatever they want.

 

[BronsonLee]

Surprisingly cops shooting innocents is more common in America than England. I wonder why?

That's actually a very loaded question, believe it or not. You could probably write a large paper on the various differences that cause this issue to be more prevalent here.

 

[ElfArmy177]

I think the issue is

1. The 'pointing' it at people thing is in question. The person who called the police seems to be saying that, but they also said he was loading the gun and pointing at people with the desire to shoot. I don't know about guns, or pellet guns, but I imagine they are loaded differently and an 'ex-marine' would be able to tell the difference, and I have read nothing about the gun being loaded with pellets anyway.

2. I think another witness claimed he was shot after they told him to get on the ground. But I am not really 100% on this, from my admittedly quick reading it was "Drop the weapon" he responds panicked "It's just a toy!" and then they shoot and say "get on the ground".

Thank you for that response. I meant no offense to anyone, and I was looking for an actual convo... Unfortunately people would rather respond with smartass "witty" remarks instead of making real conversation about it.

 

[Stinkles]

Not at all what I was saying. but if you haven't noticed, cops assaulting people are all over Facebook feeds and neogaf lately.

That's all my point was... is people jumping to conclusion... kinda like what you did with my post.

Since 911 effectively militarized the local police, the incidents have in fact increased. And since gun ownership continues to grow, unchecked, the militarized police have more and more reasons to expect gun violence. The increase in these reports isn't some meme, it's an increase in reports. We also do have more mass shootings than before, but our politicians and media are too chicken whit to go anywhere near it.

 

[Alienous]

I can't anymore. I fucking can't.

This makes me feel sick.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I wonder if I'll live long enough to witness the tipping point that leads to the day when this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore.

But since I'm not white I probably wont.

Ain't life hand?

I'll leave now..don't want to jump to conclusions and offend.

 

[Kinyou]

Why does someone need a machine gun to buy some pork chops.

Have to protect yourself from those crazy gun nuts.

 

[Volimar]

meanwhile

Funny because Target has since asked people not to bring guns into their stores.

 

[Faustek]

1.Dude is (playfully?) pointing a gun at people
2. People get scared and call cops
3. Somehow the dude gets shot - which I highly doubt the cop just jumped in and shot without making himself known.
4. GAF is upset because hes black.....?

1. According to dumbass witness, yes.
2. No, just one witness who has changed his story every 10 second and let his injured wife tail the suspect on a scooter -.-
3. According to the victims mother, he said "it's not real" and then he got shot, according to dumb ass witness the cops warned him twice and he said nothing.
4. don't go there.

 

[F0rneus]

What an abject situation. I don't care what anyone says. A young man who was holding a toy, got shot to death. Jesus Christ, and apparently people were following him too. And no one noticed it was a toy? My God. This is fucking insane.

The whole "he was loading it" shit is blatant fucking lies. It was a toy.

Fuck, this is unreal. Horrible loss of life. Rest in peace.

 

[MikeDown]

I don't know anymore, so much bullshit coming from every direcion

 

[ElfArmy177]

Since 911 effectively militarized the local police, the incidents have in fact increased. And since gun ownership continues to grow, unchecked, the militarized police have more and more reasons to expect gun violence. The increase in these reports isn't some meme, it's an increase in reports. We also do have more mass shootings than before, but our politicians and media are too chicken whit to go anywhere near it.

Thank you, and I agree with your post. However, I still think people tend to jump to conclusions on this specific case, assuming the cop is at fault here and the man did nothing wrong, regardless of race.

Edit: there really doesn't seem to be concrete evidence either way in this case, as many posters are stating. It seems no one really knows exactly what happened. Really, because of that shouldn't we just say how awful it is, instead of bringing up bad cops, race, and gun laws into the mix until we get more info?

 

[FStop7]

I can't believe how how realistic that gun looks. What the fuck.

The man turned to look at them with a stare she described as if he was telling them, “don’t come near me.”

That dehumanizing stare.

 

[Alienous]

I actually feel sick to my stomach.

This should not happen. That's a person, killed, for no good reason, by people who are meant to be protecting him. A 22-year old who had his right to life taken from him.

I'm fucking pissed at this.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Why does someone need a machine gun to buy some pork chops.

Because we is fond of pork products..

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

What an abject situation. I don't care what anyone says. A young man who was holding a toy, got shot to death. Jesus Christ, and apparently people were following him too. And no one noticed it was a toy? My God. This is fucking insane.

The whole "he was loading it" shit is blatant fucking lies. It was a toy.

Fuck, this is unreal.

It wasn't a toy.

Wait, maybe people consider those toys.

To me, a fucking Super Soaker is a toy, not a pellet/bb gun.

Then again, A Christmas Story...

 

[Enron]

What circumstances exactly? Obviously if you are incredibly close to the target it can break skin and cause damage (like shooting your own foot), but it is incredibly rare to be able to kill a human with a pellet gun at any moderate distance.

Eyes, for one. You could definitely kill someone if you hit them in the eye with a shot from a pellet gun.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Eyes, for one. You could definitely kill someone if you hit them in the eye with a shot from a pellet gun.

This is true.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Funny because Target has since asked people not to bring guns into their stores.

Plus, why wear those jeans just to cover that ass???

 

[Alienous]

Eyes, for one. You could definitely kill someone if you hit them in the eye with a shot from a pellet gun.

You could probably brain a dude with a Boomerang, also.

 

[Jito]

Our cops don't have enough freedom to do whatever they want.

Frankly I'm disgusted.

That's actually a very loaded question, believe it or not. You could probably write a large paper on the various differences that cause this issue to be more prevalent here.

For starters, Our country doesn't have a boner for guns, Secondly our cops aren't armed morons who seem to have a habit of shooting to resolve a situation.

 

[cebri.one]

"He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were. And the next thing I know, he said ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him. And I could hear him just crying and screaming. I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human."

This is is just incredible.

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKvFznISRl0

American cops should really start watching less movies. No other police in a western countries acts like they do.

 

[ErnieMcCracken]

Frankly I'm disgusted.



For starters, Our country doesn't have a boner for guns, Secondly our cops aren't armed morons who seem to have a habit of shooting to resolve a situation.

And the NRA buying all of your politicians.

 

[oneHeero]

Surprisingly cops shooting innocents is more common in America than England. I wonder why?

Amongst numerous reasons one of them couldn't be the difference of populational size, right? 50 mil vs 300 mil.

 

[ShdwDrake]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

 

[Enron]

You could probably brain a dude with a Frisbee, also.

oh good lord how is that even comparable.

Edit: lol, ninja edit not fast enough!


Before this gets lost amongst all the venom, i'm not blaming the victim in any way. I was arguing that this thing is not a toy, and it should have been treated appropriately by wal-mart. Handing it to a customer unboxed and letting them walk all over the store with it is not handling it responsibly.

 

[JCizzle]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

That's kind of ridiculous. Hate the people who did it.

 

[Kinitari]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

Woah Woah Woah, get that shit out of here.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

The video footage needs to be released, if he wasn't waving the gun at anyone then the people who said he did need to be arrested for involvement in the deaths of the two people, and if the police didn't warn him before shooting him then they need to be arrested as well.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

You could ignorantly say that about any geographical location when possible injustice happens aka everywhere.

The pretense that the U.S. is developed, safe and fair is so prevalent that it adds insult to injury in these instances, in turn bringing attention to them. This country has the resources, education and power to prevent these kinds of situations which makes them that much more pathetic.

 

[PsychBat!]

I would call the cops, and have them shot to death.

It's apparently the appropriate response.

You should do what this person does.

Yup, because aggravated assault is a felony, and I am allowed to use non-lethal force to effectuate a citizen's arrest. And then I would sue them out of house and board, seeking 350,000 in punitive damages alone.

Because this isn't the most idiotic thing to do.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

Uh wow, racist much?

 

[Skeyser]

Eyes, for one. You could definitely kill someone if you hit them in the eye with a shot from a pellet gun.

Could you really? Seems like it could cost someone their eye, but I doubt a BB gun has enough power to actually kill.

 

[TheChocolateWar]

Because this isn't the most idiotic thing to do.

How is it idiotic? I have my rights of autonomy, just as everyone else does. There is an old adage in american philosophy. Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. You punch me? I sue you. You threaten me with a bb gun? I sue you. Simple as that. Want to go frolic in the woods where there is no one else and shoot at random stumps and rocks? Go right ahead. Unless it is my land, and then I will sue you.

 

[The Cowboy]

Amongst numerous reasons one of them couldn't be the difference of populational size, right? 50 mil vs 300 mil.

Using the population numbers doesn't work so well, even taking into account population and even if you simply multiplied our population up to match - our police stats are in a different league all together. Also, we live on a much smaller landmass and have a much more densely packed population.

Simply put, we live in a CCTV police society and you (the US) live in an armed police society - they are very different;

 

[Jmanunknown]

Thank you, and I agree with your post. However, I still think people tend to jump to conclusions on this specific case, assuming the cop is at fault here and the man did nothing wrong, regardless of race.

Edit: there really doesn't seem to be concrete evidence either way in this case, as many posters are stating. It seems no one really knows exactly what happened. Really, because of that shouldn't we just say how awful it is, instead of bringing up bad cops, race, and gun laws into the mix until we get more info?

We have a general idea of what happened in this incident. An innocent young father died because two racist fools decided to racially profile and follow him while he was minding his own business shopping in walmart. That part is a fact using the words of the two people who assumed he was a criminal and was giving people dehumanizing stares. This part is where things are not as clear. Cops arrive they may or may not have given him time to comply they shoot him he is dead. His two kids with a third on the way are now fatherless.

 

[Lv99 Slacker]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

Come on, man.

 

[Alienous]

oh good lord how is that even comparable.

Edit: lol, ninja edit not fast enough!


Before this gets lost amongst all the venom, i'm not blaming the victim in any way. I was arguing that this thing is not a toy, and it should have been treated appropriately by wal-mart. Handing it to a customer unboxed and letting them walk all over the store with it is not handling it responsibly.

It really doesn't present a great danger, if it is identified as a BB gun. And it would have been identified clearly as one if questions came before shooting.

My point is that there are toys that can be lethal. A baseball or baseball bat can be a lethal weapon. A skipping rope can be a lethal weapon. A BB gun can be a lethal weapon, under specific circumstances, also. It is far from a lethally dangerous weapon, though, and the police shouldn't be firing at anyone who has anything less than a lethally dangerous weapon.

 

[Mariolee]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

I want to say this is simply the poster being facetious, but there isn't really much commentary in this post to indicate this is satire. If you ARE being sarcastic, this is a really weird way of going about it.

 

[mre]

Because a person can be guilty of both the codified larceny statute and the common law offense of larceny. The codification in Ohio of common law larceny includes all the elements of common law larceny.

"[T]here are no common-law crimes and no common-law criminal procedure in Ohio." State v. Lisbon Sales Book Co., 176 Ohio St. 482, 486, 200 N.E.2d 590, 594 (1964).

Again, its only larceny if you exceed the scope of consent the store has granted you. The store allows you to place items in the shopping cart and go buy it. In limited circumstances, a store employee may allow you to sample merchandise. The store does not allow you to go in and putz around with all their merchandise however you see fit.

Has Wal-Mart alleged that this guy has exceeded his license and in some way converted to BB/pellet gun to his exclusive possession? If so, please point that out.

Super, time to explain the difference between assault and battery, and how the codified assault statute does not preclude prosecution for the underlying common law assault. Common law assault is the intentional causal of apprehension on the part of another person of a harmful or offensive contact. The pointing of a gun at a person can cause a person to believe they will imminently be shot or touched with the butt of the gun. Therefore, it satisfies the common law assault. As codified, this statute is talking about battery, which is the harmful touching of another person. Many states, like Ohio, like to lump assault and battery into the same crime. However, you can still be charged for the underlying common law assault crime. Why? Because we are NOT a civic law society (with the exception of New Lousiana). You can be charged with common law offenses as well.

Please stop. Unless you know better than the Ohio Supreme Court, just stop: "[T]here are no common-law crimes and no common-law criminal procedure in Ohio." State v. Lisbon Sales Book Co., 176 Ohio St. 482, 486, 200 N.E.2d 590, 594 (1964). The common-law differences between assault and battery are irrelevant. The Court of Appeals of Ohio also directly addressed this:

Appellant, in the case sub judice, argues that, pursuant to Roberts, if disorderly conduct is a lesser included offense of assault, and assault is a lesser included offense of murder (and, presumably, attempted murder), then disorderly conduct should, by extension, be found to be a lesser included offense of attempted murder. Appellant's argument is creative, but ultimately unavailing. The reason that appellant's argument is not convincing lies in the subsuming, in the statutory crime of assault, of two different common law crimes: assault and battery.​

State v. Williams, 88-G-1483, 1990 WL 47451 (Ohio Ct. App. Apr. 13, 1990).

It could indeed have been the police, or the people he was allegedly assaulting. When you assault someone, you beg self-defense violence. Therefore, whenever you assault, this is a lesser included offense.

That's just categorically incorrect. In Ohio, a defendant cannot be deemed to have urged “another” to commit an offense of violence, as required to support conviction for inciting to violence, where the other person was not urged to commit an offense of violence against a third party but, rather, against the defendant. See State v. Turner, 2007-Ohio-5449.

 

[JoeInky]

Amongst numerous reasons one of them couldn't be the difference of populational size, right? 50 mil vs 300 mil.

The difference in population is nowhere near proportional to the difference in police killings though.

And it's not proportional to police deaths either, 24 police officers killed in 12 years vs. over 100 cops killed in a single year.

 

[ShdwDrake]

Uh wow, racist much?

Some guy told me I was pretty good at my job for a black. Then I read this. I might be, I dunno man. I do act differently around white people unless I know them.

 

[richiek]

As a British person, this looks real fucking stupid.

Why is this even allowed in a country as scared of public shootings as you are? Is it really just because they're white that people don't call the cops on them or whatever?

Because of the second amendment and according to the NRA, limiting firearm ownership is tantamount to tyranny.

This applies only to white people, of course

 

[Acid08]

Sometimes I really hate white people.

White cops*

 

[TheChocolateWar]

"[T]here are no common-law crimes and no common-law criminal procedure in Ohio." State v. Lisbon Sales Book Co., 176 Ohio St. 482, 486, 200 N.E.2d 590, 594 (1964).

*Claps* Good job, this is the kind of discussion I want. See, I did not know that Ohio had joined the ranks of states who do not recognize common law crimes. I will add it to the list of two.

Although lookie what I found. They codified the common law larceny here;

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2913.02v1

Has Wal-Mart alleged that this guy has exceeded his license and in some way converted to BB/pellet gun to his exclusive possession? If so, please point that out.

Standard business practice applies here. There is nothing that states that Walmart is allowing them to use the guns in this fashion, therefore the presumption is that Wal-mart is not allowing it.

Please stop. Unless you know better than the Ohio Supreme Court, just stop: "[T]here are no common-law crimes and no common-law criminal procedure in Ohio." State v. Lisbon Sales Book Co., 176 Ohio St. 482, 486, 200 N.E.2d 590, 594(1964). The common-law differences between assault and battery are irrelevant.

And I thank you for pointing that out. It is good to know. But again, they have codified the common law definition of larceny under their general theft statute. So technically, the man could have been guilty of Ohioan Theft.

That's just categorically incorrect. In Ohio, a defendant cannot be deemed to have urged “another” to commit an offense of violence, as required to support conviction for inciting to violence, where the other person was not urged to commit an offense of violence against a third party but, rather, against the defendant. See State v. Turner, 2007-Ohio-5449.

*Whistles* Are you a dang Ohio lawyer then? That is some mighty fine key citing you are doing. Ok ok, give me a few minutes and I will find another felony to charge him with.

How about disorderly conduct?

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2917.11 The making of a threatening gesture towards another person recklessly. Assuming he did this to more than three persons.