Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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yea so here's the thing. Its not trespassing if McDonalds is fine with it. By all accounts, they had been there for days. So you're telling me out of nowhere the McDonalds called the police (which by all accounts, no one is really answering and getting a serious response from) they then came, asked them to leave, when the reporters were leaving peacefully, they were arrested for "not leaving fast enough."

Just stop.

Consent can be revoked at a moments notice. Also, do you want me to get into a discussion of agency law and whether or not the clerk at McDonalds can give corporate consent for people to utilize the space? The answer is NO, they may not. If corporate policy states that you are not allowed to use McDonalds as a place of business, then you may not, no matter what the 18 year old behind the counter says.
 
Consent can be revoked at a moments notice. Also, do you want me to get into a discussion of agency law and whether or not the clerk at McDonalds can give corporate consent for police to utilize the space? The answer is NO, they may not. If corporate policy states that you are not allowed to use McDonalds as a place of business, then you may not, no matter what the 18 year old behind the counter says.

McDonalds just happened to call in for the police to remove them at the very time the police start gassing protesters. What a timely coincidence.
 
Welcome to trespass law. The only element for criminal trespass is if you are exceeding the scope of the license and it is communicated to you at the place of business. Just because you can go into a McDonalds to buy some nuggets does NOT mean you are legally allowed to operate a business out of it.



Its not the police's call, its McDonalds call, as to whether it is trespass.

Mcdonalds didn't make a call.. People were eating inside, and the reporters were working and were told it was fine for them to stay.

Patrons working in the McDonald’s, which reporters had been using as a staging area near demonstrations, were ordered to leave, Lowery said. When the journalists said they were working members of the media, the police told them that was fine, but they couldn’t guarantee their safety.

Police then left and returned a short time later, Lowery said, this time demanding that the reporters leave. Lowery began filming a video on his phone while also using his other hand to pack up his things. An officer objected, Lowery said, but did not press the issue.

Lowery was directed to leave through one door, and then told to go through another, at which point his bag fell off of his shoulder.

“‘Okay, let’s take him,’” one of the officers said, according to Lowery.

Lowery said that at this point, he was slammed against a soda machine and plastic cuffs were placed on his wrists. He was trying to make it clear he was not resisting arrest, but it did not appear the officers believed him.

Next sad batch of victim blaming laced with a hint of apologism :?

Seriously. Waiting around for him to talk is putting me on edge.

Why...Dudes fooled us like 1000 times.
 
I haven't been paying much attention, but seems that there was no reason for the cop to shoot?

From the sounds of the witnesses...cop pulls right up to the kid...they get into an altercation while the cop is still in the vehicle...cop probably instigated it knowing he can get away with anything. Kid probably fought back. Cop pulls out gun. Shoots him because he was "under attack." Kid runs away. Cop delivers fatal blows from 30 feet away.

This is basically Trayvon Martin all over again except instead of a community watchman in George Zimmerman..it's an actual cop who went off protocol. He'll claim self-defense. The fact he was still shooting the kid as he ran away and ended up face first in the pavement will mean nothing to the jury. Cop will get off. Life will continue in its utter mess.
 
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Mcdonalds didn't make a call.. People were eating inside, and the reporters were working and were told it was fine for them to stay.



Next sad batch of victim blaming laced with a hint of apologism :?


Are you sure a manager didn't make the call without informing people? I mean, it isn't like a manager has to be on site to call the police officers. All the facts are not in. Is it likely the police abused their power and trumped up charges that are some what plausible? Yea, they probably did. I am just explaining how the reporters may have violated the law.
 
I don't know if a complaint was given by McDonalds or not. Have you been to the Missouri General District Court to read the complaint? I haven't. I am just going off the news articles. Also, whether or not the police officers are also guilty of something does not excuse the guilty of reporters.

If you don't know if a complaint was given by McDonald's then stop acting like you're sure it happened. There is no reason to give the police the benefit of the doubt here anymore.

Also, there's no guilt on the reporters part if there was no trespassing claim made. You know, the claim that you just said you didn't know anything about.
 

So, you think that the police were told that the reporters were trespassing in the 2 minutes in between the cops first showed up and when they returned? How does that make any sense? Do you think employees are thinking about reporters sitting in a McDonalds when militarized SWAT members are raiding their workplace?

Oh, officer! Please tell these reporters to leave because they are being disturbance and hurting business!

Fucking hilarious, lol
 
Statement by Rand Paul:

"Anyone who thinks that race does not skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention," he said. "The outrage in Ferguson is understandable—though there is never an excuse for rioting or looting. There is a legitimate role for the police to keep the peace, but there should be a difference between a police response and a military response."

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 
Well no, they couldn't throw Obama out of office. That's why he's doing so much with executive action. They could throw any congressional republican who might work to address the issue, which means there's no congressional support, which means there's no actual laws that can be implemented
Well that's the GOP and their mess, it shouldn't have to dictate the way the other party works. They can easily find other excuses for throwing out those Republicans.

And it's not like every Democrat would be on-board either, for other similar political hogwash. In the end all that's really doing is showing how broken the current political system is and how incompetent and petulant the people in Washington are.
 
If you don't know if a complaint was given by McDonald's then stop acting like you're sure it happened. There is no reason to give the police the benefit of the doubt here anymore.

Also, there's no guilt on the reporters part if there was no trespassing claim made. You know, the claim that you just said you didn't know anything about.

I am not saying I am sure it happened. I am explaining what the charge was, and how it works in this particular instance. For all we know, a general manager may have called the police and asked them to come kick out the reporters. I don't know if that happened. If it did, they were trespassing, and the asking for identification was pretextual, but valid.
 
The news articles I have been reading stated the reason for the initial detention was a failure to identify, and the final charge was trespass. I would argue the initial detention was valid, and there was good reason to believe there was criminal trespass. McDonalds is not a place you can set up your own personal business.

Personal business? Did they make Lowery and Reilly Inc. in a mcdonalds? Is that what you're implying?

No, they shut down a mcdonalds to get people out for whatever reason, and decided to be assholes to people they thought they would get away with. Articles state they didn't care they were being filmed and would eventually be reported on, they wouldn't give badge numbers or names.
 
Are you sure a manager didn't make the call without informing people? I mean, it isn't like a manager has to be on site to call the police officers. All the facts are not in. Is it likely the police abused their power and trumped up charges that are some what plausible? Yea, they probably did. I am just explaining how the reporters may have violated the law.

Name: TheChocolateWar
Avatar: Boss Hog from the Dukes of Hazard
 
It's a sad state of affairs when Rand Paul becomes a voice of reason.

So far I'm on the same side as Alex Jones and Rand Paul... good god what has happened to this country?

This is good, though. With the Tea Party on our side, we can probably actually get something done. I can't believe I just typed that sentence.
 
Personal business? Did they make Lowery and Reilly Inc. in a mcdonalds? Is that what you're implying?

No, they shut down a mcdonalds to get people out for whatever reason, and decided to be assholes to people they thought they would get away with. Articles state they didn't care, they wouldn't give badge numbers or names.

*Rubs bridge of nose*

Looks like I will have to discuss agency law. Legal issue: Can the seventeen year old associate behind the counter give consent to allow media to use their space for personal business? Answer? No. Legal rule: The only way a person can give consent as an agent of an organization is by actual, implied, or apparent authority. In this case, an associate at McDonalds does not have the actual contractual authority to allow someone to sublet the space at a table. They only have authority to sell nuggets and deliver them to the customers.

Nor do associates have apparent authority. No one would assume an aspie little seventeen year old has the managerial capacity to sublet space like that. Therefore, they did not have authority to grant consent to use the space.

Therefore, the reporters, if it is against corporate policy, were trespassers ab initio; trespassers at the start of their business operations.

Do I have McDonald's standard operating procedures? No, but I will make a reasonable, educated guess that McDonalds does not allow people to use their space for operating a personal business. Most companies do not do that.
 
So far I'm on the same side as Alex Jones and Rand Paul... good god what has happened to this country?

This is good, though. With the Tea Party on our side, we can probably actually get something done. I can't believe I just typed that sentence.

Sometimes what you're looking for is found in the last place you'd ever look.
 
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