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[Mammoth Jones]

The only way I'd allow a tox screen to matter on this case is if Brown was on bath salts.

How about a toxicology screen on the cop? What's he been taking lately?

 

[lazorexplosion]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

 

[JDSN]

Its not you. Just like all of the "Devils Advocates" in the.Tryvon Martin thread.

Now that you mention it:

Evidence that Martin was a thug like phone messages about fighting was specifically excluded from the trial. But don't let that stop you from making completely baseless smears against jurors you don't even know who heard the full evidence presented when you didn't.

How about not turning around and beating on someone who is merely following you? When you decide to turn around and 'get physical' as you euphemistically put it you are the aggressor and the other person is defending themselves... Is this supposed to condemn the Zimmerman verdict? Because it's actually the opposite.

then calling him [Martin] an innocent child is wrong and irrelevant

But hey, he is just "Asking questions"(Tm).

 

[masud]

Black men are intimately aware of the dangers that come with dealing with the police. It's drilled into our heads from a young age. I love how were supposed to believe that all these black men, with no history of mental illness just spontaneously decide to commit suicide by cop. Because that's what reaching for a cops gun or assaulting one is, suicide.

 

[CharminUltra]

Witnesses? What witnesses? They are no match for a person's opinions and imaginations.

Plus I bet they're also African American. Thugs always cover for each other!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

There are multiple witnesses, but they're kind of incomplete on how the altercation started and what was involved . Except for Browns friend/accomplice.

Is this person charged with a crime?

Plus I bet they're also African American. Thugs always cover for each other!

See the quote above.

 

[Sai-kun]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

I don't give a fuck if he was rolling face or as high as a kite. Arrest the kid, don't murder him. Why the fuck does it matter? You keep bringing up new questions without stating why they matter.

 

[CrankyJay]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

Again, none of that shit mattered the moment Brown put his hands in the air to surrender. Any force used after that is excessive.

 

[More_Badass]

Keep bringing up my dad, but ugh...so frustrating

"The DoJ didn't want the video released because Eric Holder is corrupt and he sides with the black community"
"See, Brown wasn't such a nice guy after all, he's just a thug"
"Can't trust the eyewitnesses. They always make stuff up when it's race related"

Thank god I can come here and discuss this situation rationally

 

[Angelus Errare]

Every single person who uses "thug" in these types of discussions are racists in my book. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

Again, what does him smoking marijuana have to do with being shot 4 times when he surrendered?

 

[Trouble]

I have this on me at all times. Guess in comparison that makes me a master burglar.

Hey! I own that exact burglar tool. Super handy for burglary stuff.



... and 'round the house repairs. And fixing my busted-ass bicycle.

 

[PopeReal]

It's not a justification. Just saying in the court of public opinion people will say he wasn't a good kid. That he deserved it.

Many of my fellow Americans are justifying his death because he was a "thug".

The truth is many Americans just don't give a shit. They are comfortable in their racist skins. They back each other's hatred up with code words. I saw someone on facebook actually call Brown a "thug-in-the-making". Whatever the fuck that is. I am guessing the racist meant if he hadn't been gunned down in the street, he was on to a life of thuggery, so job well done by the police.

So we have people who are just fine with American citizens being murdered. They think they deserve it. They circle up and climb in their bubble together.

 

[CharminUltra]

See the quote above.

Nvm I'm dumb.

 

[DrBo42]

Man, look at the vocab used here. All this talk of committing a felony and being a felon when all he did was basically shoplift.

Excuse me, but I thought this was a murder, not a car theft or something.

Didn't they say the officer had no idea that was possibly linked to Brown? Not sure why people are even factoring it in. Do we have any idea what actually happened on the street that caused him to open fire?

 

[Velcro Fly]

I have a few cops on my facebook. I've known most of them my entire life. I know them to be good people. But some of the crap they share and like regarding this case makes me really sad.

 

[Jmanunknown]

It has a bearing on whether it was an execution or a fight.

Would you shoot a person who has surrendered or is running away and is unarmed?

But when the black man walking down the street brazenly and aggressively committed a felony literally ten minutes ago you the expectations of what might have happened when a police officer turns up and said 'hey, you' are completely different. Black man, white man, any man, there is the possibility that someone in that position might panic and do something stupid. Now the possibility is there that there might be another side to the story, and we haven't heard it yet.

It was not a felony your just spinning the story to fit your narrative which is bs. We also have no idea what happened inside that story other then mike took what he took and pushed the store clerk.

It's pertinent. The release and public discussion of pertinent information is not some smear campaign against black people because it makes the black guy look bad.

No it is not your argument is completely obtuse and absurd when even the police who released the video say it had no bearing on what went down between the officer and mike. All it is pure and simple character assassination.

Why are you dead set on stuff that has nothing to do with what happened?

 

[CountBlack]

Now that you mention it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70229496&postcount=1277



http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70243941&postcount=1788

But hey, he is just "Asking questions"(Tm).

welp. there you have it

 

[Saint Gregory]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

No one is saying that it's irrelevant, people are saying that it's not a reason to delay releasing the information that they do have. It's telling that they appear so far to have done a more thorough job of investigating a petty shoplifting case than they have for an officer related shooting.

 

[Nanashrew]

I question when devil's advocacy has ever been useful to a conversation or discussion.

 

[Tripon]

There are multiple witnesses, but they're kind of incomplete on how the altercation started and what was involved . Except for Browns friend/accomplice.

You do know that Dorian Johnson (use the dude's name if you can) gave back the cigars handed to him at the store, and that the Ferguson PD has already stated that they won't charge him with anything related with Ferguson Market shoplifting/Strong Arm Assault incident?

Out of all this, if you can't believe what is seemly the one surviving innocent party in all of this, who the hell can you trust?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

For a Black man in the US not immediately obeying a police officer's order to get off the fucking street is erratic. Cause our lives are at risk if we don't obey immediately. At least that's what I'm taking from this.

But like I said we have witnesses. They've agreed about one crucial point:

Brown tried to flee, turned around w/ hands up and was still shot.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/14/witnesses-to-michael-browns-shooting-detail-his-last-minutes/

 

[MHWilliams]

There are multiple witnesses, but they're kind of incomplete on how the altercation started and what was involved . Except for Browns friend/accomplice.

All three state he died away from the cop in question. Running, then surrendering.

Dorian Johnson

"He didn't say freeze, halt or anything like we were committing a crime," Johnson told KSDK. "He said, 'Get the 'F' on the sidewalk.'"

He said the officer, whose name has not been released, shoved open the car door, grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window. He said Brown never tried to reach for the officer's weapon.

"The second time he says, 'I'll shoot.' A second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "That's how we were able to run at the same time."

Johnson said he ducked behind a car as the officer continued shooting at them, hitting Brown in the back.

"His (Brown's) hands immediately went into the air and he turned around to the officer," Johnson recalled. "My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him). Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch."

Johnson, who began to sob during the interview, said he could tell Brown was in pain: "It hurt him a lot. Could see it in his eyes. It was definitely like being shot like an animal.

"I definitely think (the officer) is guilty of murder," Johnson said.

Tiffany Mitchell

“It just didn’t look right for them to be arm wrestling,” Mitchell said. “The first gun shot came from the window, so I just started getting out of the way.”

According to Mitchell, Brown, Jr, began to run away after the first shot was fired.
“After the shot, the kid just breaks away. The cop follows him, kept shooting, the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit. After his body jerked he turns around, puts his hands up, and the cop continues to walk up on him and continues to shoot until he goes all the way down,” Mitchell said.

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498155311153180672
Why did they shoot him?

no reason! He was running!

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498157636395614208

dude was running and the cops just shot.him. i saw him die bruh

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498167134367645696
Shot from behind?

the first two was, the next 5 werent, he turned around

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498170566449172480

The first two was clear, then it was a barage of them shits

Again, you have three separate witnesses who say essentially the same thing. The objective viewpoint is to believe the events that align with the most evidence you have at the moment.

But you prefer to side with justifying the actions of the cop, who has yet to make a statement or release a report. That's not objective.

 

[masud]

It is possible that Brown deserved to die a little bit. He may not have deserved to die at all but if he did deserve to die a little, even slightly, the possibility must be explored.

 

[Infinite]

I question when devil's advocacy has ever been useful to a conversation or discussion.

It's a good way got folks to feign being objective by creating the illusion that they are capable of critical thinking.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I question when devil's advocacy has ever been useful to a conversation or discussion.

It rarely is especially on GAF. Vast majority of the times it's just a bunch of assholes wanting to rile people up for the "lulz" all of these devils advocate posters have the same things in common; they're remedial as hell, inarticulate, circular reasoning, making up scenarios, lacking any critical thinking, and in cases like these racist as fuck.

 

[CharminUltra]

Now that you mention it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70229496&postcount=1277


http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70243941&postcount=1788

But hey, he is just "Asking questions"(Tm).

These posts overflow with objectivity.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

So all those eye witness accounts say he was shot in the back. If the autopsy proves that then the rush down theory (aka aggressive step) is destroyed.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

All three state he died away from the cop in question. Running, then surrendering.

Dorian Johnson


Tiffany Mitchell


https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498155311153180672
Why did they shoot him?

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498157636395614208

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498167134367645696
Shot from behind?

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498170566449172480


Again, you have three separate witnesses who say essentially the same thing. The objective viewpoint is to believe the events that align with the most evidence you have at the moment.

But you prefer to side with justifying the actions of the cop, who has yet to make a statement or release a report. That's not objective.

Thank you for this post.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Oh go on. Please go on.

Quick summary:

On the evidence of Johnson (friend/accomplice in the robbery), fight was started by the police officer, Brown did not try to grab the officers gun. The officer shot a fleeing Brown.

In another Brown appeared to be wrestling with the officer then the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot Brown.

In another, she arrived after the altercation had begun. The were wrestling in the car through the window and the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot a fleeing Brown.

On the evidence of the officer, Brown attacked him after he pulled up nearby to talk to him about being in the middle of the road. Brown tried to grab his gun, presumably to kill him in this story. The first shot was fired during the altercation. He is evasive about the subsequent shots.

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I question when devil's advocacy has ever been useful to a conversation or discussion.

Literally all the time. In cases it like this though it can just look like you're "JUST ASKING QUESTIONS" and missing any point of the actual issue.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It is possible that Brown deserved to die a little bit. He may have not deserved to die at all but if he did deserve to die a little, even slightly, the possibility must be explored.

This is such dumb post.

 

[BFIB]

It is possible that Brown deserved to die a little bit. He may have not deserved to die at all but if he did deserve to die a little, even slightly, the possibility must be explored.

The only evidence we see of him being anything than a nice, young individual is him with the video in the store.

Beyond that, everything is vague up until we have the eyewitness accounts. So where in all that we know does it even remotely enter the possibility that he might have deserved to die a little bit?

 

[SteveWinwood]

how do you deserve to die just a little bit

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Another contradiction that illustrates interpretation bias. People arguing that Brown wouldn't do erratic things. People arguing that the toxicology report, and definitive evidence for or against intoxication, is irrelevant and shouldn't even be considered.

you obviously know why some are saying that, because they know if brown has even minute traces of anything in his system, then that will be the new headline. This kid isn't going to test positive for PCP or Bath Salts or something else that would completely fry his brain to the point of turning and running from 35 feet away to assault an officer as well as make him a bullet sponge. At most he's going to test positive for marijuana which is pretty inconceivable to lead to his actions, yet the media will run with it. I don't think that is an illegitimate concern, but I fall on the side of waiting on the tox report to be released before filing charges.

 

[Angelus Errare]

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

So I will ask you yet again, ye ol remedial GAF member number 7168. What does him taking some cigarillos have to do with an officer shooting Brown 4 times after Brown had already surrendered.

 

[MHWilliams]

Quick summary:

On the evidence of Johnson (friend/accomplice in the robbery), fight was started by the police officer, Brown did not try to grab the officers gun. The officer shot a fleeing Brown.

In another Brown appeared to be wrestling with the officer then the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot Brown.

In another, she arrived after the altercation had begun. The were wrestling in the car through the window and the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot a fleeing Brown.

On the evidence of the officer, Brown attacked him after he pulled up nearby to talk to him about being in the middle of the road. Brown tried to grab his gun, presumably to kill him in this story. The first shot was fired during the altercation. He is evasive about the subsequent shots.

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

And again... Bam. You're done. That's it. His initial use didn't kill Brown. The latter shots did.

The latter shots, the ones that killed Brown, are in question and anything else is smoke and mirrors.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

And how about the subsequent shots that were fired at an unarmed man trying to surrender? You know....the part that's actually murder and has people outraged?

 

[EatinOlives]

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

This is ridiculous. You're essentially arguing to what degree he didn't deserve to die. Again, nobody wants to make this clown distinction without an ulterior motive.

 

[Infinite]

This is such dumb post.

He wasn't being sarcastic? Well fuck

 

[CrankyJay]

Quick summary:

On the evidence of Johnson (friend/accomplice in the robbery), fight was started by the police officer, Brown did not try to grab the officers gun. The officer shot a fleeing Brown.

In another Brown appeared to be wrestling with the officer then the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot Brown.

In another, she arrived after the altercation had begun. The were wrestling in the car through the window and the first shot was fired. The officer pursued and shot a fleeing Brown.

On the evidence of the officer, Brown attacked him after he pulled up nearby to talk to him about being in the middle of the road. Brown tried to grab his gun, presumably to kill him in this story. The first shot was fired during the altercation. He is evasive about the subsequent shots.

So it is clearly unacceptable that the officer continued using deadly force on a fleeing suspect. But it is certainly still possible that Brown started the attack and caused the officer to fear for his life, and his initial use of lethal force may have been justified if that were the case.

No one is arguing that. They're arguing the shot in the back and shots after he put his hands up.

 

[lazorexplosion]

you obviously know why some are saying that, because they know if brown has even minute traces of anything in his system, then that will be the new headline. This kid isn't going to test positive for PCP or Bath Salts or something else that would completely fry his brain to the point of turning and running from 35 feet away to assault an officer as well as make him a bullet sponge. At most he's going to test positive for marijuana which is pretty inconceivable to lead to his actions, yet the media will run with it. I don't think that is an illegitimate concern, but I fall on the side of waiting on the tox report to be released before filing charges.

Maybe he got a little high a few days ago and it's nothing. Maybe he was out of his mind on meth. Considering he just went for grabbing $50 of cigars in broad daylight, I'd say there's at least a possibility he was out of his mind.

 

[Tripon]

This is such dumb post.

The only evidence we see of him being anything than a nice, young individual is him with the video in the store.

Beyond that, everything is vague up until we have the eyewitness accounts. So where in all that we know does it even remotely enter the possibility that he might have deserved to die a little bit?

how do you deserve to die just a little bit

You're all being trolled. I doubt he was serious. Man, this is a case of Poe's law working in action right now.

 

[BitStyle]

This is such dumb post.

I'm pretty sure his post was in jest, because it sums up most of the irrelevant filler that was brought up in this case.

"Even if there is the smallest amount of doubt, then it's enough for me to dismiss the real evidence!"

 

[Tristam]

This is such dumb post.

Pretty sure that's /s.

 

[Gonzalez]

how do you deserve to die just a little bit

The Kurgan did. He was an asshole, and there only needed to be one.

 

[BFIB]

Not sure if anyone saw, but the feds are now also wanting to perform their on autopsy.

This poor kids corpse is going to be cut open 3 different times before the family gets to say their goodbye.

 

[Sai-kun]

Maybe he got a little high a few days ago and it's nothing. Maybe he was out of his mind on meth. Considering he just went for grabbing $50 of cigars in broad daylight, I'd say there's at least a possibility he was out of his mind.

This is such a fucking dumb post. Stop posting.

 

[Saint Gregory]

This is such dumb post.

He's being super sarcastic and it's appropriate given the current state of the thread.

 

[masud]

This is such dumb post.

I was being sarcastic in an attempt to mock this dude lazorexplosion. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It is possible that Brown deserved to die a little bit. He may have not deserved to die at all but if he did deserve to die a little, even slightly, the possibility must be explored.

This is a really disgusting thing....oh....I get it....

Heh. Such a damn shame some people really believe this.