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[JesseEwiak]

So you don't ever actually go out and meet new people past the devs and press....really? That's why you are starting to hate the consumers it's because you never try to meet with them.

I'm not games press. I'm simply stating what I see. But, if I was games press, here would be the likely reaction I get from all three groups. -

Other games press - Know I have to deal with playing a new game almost weekly on deadline, am underpaid like I am, live in the same city as I do.

Game developers - Even if they're just trying to sell me on a game, they're at least treating me like a decent human being.

Consumers/Audience - Accusing me of being a shill who got a blowjob from a random developer when not insinuating I can't play games because I gave a game a 8.9 instead of a 9.3

What would you do, especially with limited time?

But, I think you're pretty naive if you think the games press are the only people in a niche audience who hate that audience. Sports writers regularly make fun of people going after them on Twitter. Political writers have to deal with idiotic partisans attacking them, especially if they write a fact-based article. So on and so forth.

 

[jschreier]

The allegations weren't true though as evidence of the person dropping them, so then how is it reporting the truth?

First of all, you have no idea whether the allegations were true. All we know is that there was a settlement. We don't know what actually happened.

Second of all, we reported that the lawsuits had happened. That's called reporting the truth. We did not say "Brad Wardell harassed his employee" -- we said she was suing him. Do you understand the difference?

 

[jschreier]

I'm super critical of Kotaku, but I still have a hidden soft spot for them somewhere, hoping they'll pull through.

If nothing else, I respect that Schreir and Totilo are actually engaging with us.

If I could ask for anything, it's just more even-handed approaches to coverage that show a wide range of gender and social opinions; some even ... believe it or not, critical of some aspects of feminism if there's compelling justification.

And it seems the Patricia Hernandez stuff is a pretty blatant breech of the ethics Totilo just outlined a week ago. So yeah ... that won't go away. And this is right after Grayson was the reason it was even mentioned last week.

I have other issues too, but I like that they're at least slightly heard ... occasionally, and they talk with us sometimes ...

But the truth is, you guys do have to do better still. Since I think you two are at least somewhat willing to hear that, I have some small hope.

Linking to Alexander's article on Kotaku though and featuring it prominently was really disappointing. I think Kotaku could be a beacon of hope if they wrote an opinion piece saying that they didn't agree with blatantly characterizing all gamers as horrible people. Yes, that means that you would have to actually criticize another journalist, instead of your entire audience. I'm certain it would result in some major blowback for you guys too. But ask yourself, is it right that you're scared to post a critical opinion of Alexander's article on the actual site? Scared because they would bully and try to destroy you guys? That's not right.

Your own twitlonger post would have been better if it was actually on Kotaku, for starters.

I posted that on Twitter because it was a Saturday and I'm in Seattle, off the clock. It's got nothing to do with Leigh, who I respect quite a bit and have no problem criticizing. We may address this GamerGate thing when we're back in the office Tuesday, but that's Stephen's call, not mine.

 

[Yagharek]

I thought journos only had to apologise if they named the wrong person or incorrect allegations. If charges get dropped, that itself is not worth an apology but it is worth an update as a statement of fact.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I thought journos only had to apologise if they named the wrong person or incorrect allegations. If charges get dropped, that itself is not worth an apology but it is worth an update as a statement of fact.

You're right.

If I say you've been accused of murder, but you haven't, I should apologize. If I say you've been accused of murder, but the case is dropped, OK. The fact is, you've been still accused of murder.

 

[JMargaris]

The story hurt his career....and after all allegations where dropped you just find it right not to apologize?

Sometimes stories hurt careers. Them's the breaks. If the story hurt his career people at Kotaku should have some empathy but they don't need to apologize.

Brad Wardell was sued. That is news. News that should be reported carefully in a way that doesn't imply guilt. But news.

Max Temkin being accused of something not in a court of law but on Twitter? Not news. A guy sending awkward FB messages to someone about how he's a master of cunnilingus? Not news.

The problem here is that in the past Kotaku has run stories that don't pass the bar for being legitimate news, so now by not talking about Quinn it looks like the bar has been suspiciously raised for just this one case.

What I hope happens is that this forces Kotaku and other sites to re-examine that bar and leave it at this higher position.

 

[Dugna]

I'm not games press. I'm simply stating what I see. But, if I was games press, here would be the likely reaction I get from all three groups. -

Other games press - Know I have to deal with playing a new game almost weekly on deadline, am underpaid like I am, live in the same city as I do.

Game developers - Even if they're just trying to sell me on a game, they're at least treating me like a decent human being.

Consumers/Audience - Accusing me of being a shill who got a blowjob from a random developer when not insinuating I can't play games because I gave a game a 8.9 instead of a 9.3

What would you do, especially with limited time?

But, I think you're pretty naive if you think the games press are the only people in a niche audience who hate that audience. Sports writers regularly make fun of people going after them on Twitter. Political writers have to deal with idiotic partisans attacking them, especially if they write a fact-based article. So on and so forth.

I'd just ignore them as trolls and then listen to well constructed criticism and live my life. Also if those people have such contempt for their audience then why do they even work in those fields?

 

[WARP10CK]

First of all, you have no idea whether the allegations were true. All we know is that there was a settlement. We don't know what actually happened.

Second of all, we reported that the lawsuits had happened. That's called reporting the truth. We did not say "Brad Wardell harassed his employee" -- we said she was suing him. Do you understand the difference?

Difference sure but you must have known that a statement like that would have raised more than a few eyebrows.

 

[Gsak]

I see a lot of people talking about boycotting Kotaku and emailing our ad sponsors or whatever, again not realizing that Kotaku is one of the very few outlets in this field that does real journalism. It's pathetic.

If that's all you saw, then I'm really sorry. Have you ever paused for a second and think why it has come to this?
And sorry, but "real journalism" is way far from what gaming "journalism" has ended up being. Especially the last 2 weeks, may sites and writers are acting like they want to drive their audience away. It looks like they are succeeding, but don't be surprised about the consequences and the aftermath.

I posted that on Twitter because it was a Saturday and I'm in Seattle, off the clock. It's got nothing to do with Leigh, who I respect quite a bit and have no problem criticizing. We may address this GamerGate thing when we're back in the office Tuesday, but that's Stephen's call, not mine.

I hope it's a start. And generally speaking, I think we reached a point where the relationship between game journalism and their audience must be discussed and re-defined. People are losing their trust in gaming press. And trust, is the bare essential and paragon of the relationship I mentioned.

 

[Shingro]

Yo Jason, any chance to see some third wave feminism perspectives? It seems an oft-overlooked.

It seems like if objectifying a digital woman is bad, slut shaming one for their breast size, clothes or high heels isn't great either.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Sometimes stories hurt careers. Them's the breaks. If the story hurt his career people at Kotaku should have some empathy but they don't need to apologize.

Brad Wardell was sued. That is news. News that should be reported carefully in a way that doesn't imply guilt. But news.

Max Temkin being accused of something not in a court of law but on Twitter? Not news. A guy sending awkward FB messages to someone about how he's a master of cunnilingus? Not news.

The problem here is that in the past Kotaku has run stories that don't pass the bar for being legitimate news, so now by not talking about Quinn it looks like the bar has been suspiciously raised for just this one case.

What I hope happens is that this forces Kotaku and other sites to re-examine that bar and leave it at this higher position.

Max Temkin is a little more sketchy, and more of a judgement call, largely because Max did respond, but yes, sexual harassment within an industry is news. But, I think the fact you describe what happened as "awkward FB messages about how he's a master of cunnilingus" says more than you think.

 

[JesseEwiak]

If that's all you saw, then I'm really sorry. Have you ever paused for a second and think why it has come to this?
And sorry, but "real journalism" is way far from what gaming "journalism" has ended up being. Especially the last 2 weeks, may sites and writers are acting like they want to drive their audience away. It looks like they are succeeding, but don't be surprised about the consequences and the aftermath.

I'd argue the last two weeks is closer to actual activist journalism that a lot of other industries and niches have than what we've had according to many in the past few years, which is being stenographers for the various large publishers, whether that's correct or not.

As for their audience being driven away, the Reddit trolls and 4chan armies I'm betting weren't visiting sites like Kotaku or Gamasutra in the first place.

I'd just ignore them as trolls and then listen to well constructed criticism and live my life. Also if those people have such contempt for their audience then why do they even work in those fields?

Maybe because they still love the video game industry and the great things it, despite large portions of it's consumer base being in arrested development?

 

[Gsak]

I'd argue the last two weeks is closer to actual activist journalism that a lot of other industries and niches have than what we've had according to many in the past few years, which is being stenographers for the various large publishers, whether that's correct or not.

As for their audience being driven away, the Reddit trolls and 4chan armies I'm betting weren't visiting sites like Kotaku or Gamasutra in the first place.

See how that sounds like a blanket statement? Let's not generalize. Not everyone on Reddit is a troll and not everyone on 4chan is part of an army. If anything the most recent mention of an "army" I've seen was Leigh Alexander's. "I am louder than you and we have an army".

 

[Fehyd]

As for their audience being driven away, the Reddit trolls and 4chan armies I'm betting weren't visiting sites like Kotaku or Gamasutra in the first place.

Not sure if you realize this but reddit and 4chan are large communities with overlap into many other communities. Odds are yes, people who go to both probably did read various gaming sites for news and opinion pieces.

 

[TheD]

If 90% of the interaction I had with my audience was comments either implying I was paid off, ignorant when it came to video games because I scored a game too high/low, or some sort of slur if I happened to be a minority or woman, yeah, I'd feel high and mighty compared to my audience.

Yeah, some of NeoGAF is better than that. But, no, the rest of the Internet is a cesspool.

But they are part of that "cesspool"!
They are not special for writing about games, they are just one of the mass of gamers that happened to luck out with a writing job and lots of them are no better than the avg fanboy anyway!

 

[Tetsuo9]

The problem here is that in the past Kotaku has run stories that don't pass the bar for being legitimate news, so now by not talking about Quinn it looks like the bar has been suspiciously raised for just this one case.

What I hope happens is that this forces Kotaku and other sites to re-examine that bar and leave it at this higher position.

That's the whole thing.

And Totilo had to be called out on multiple times to cover the 2012 libel story, that he clearly didn't want to but he ended up doing.

Other than these isolated cases, for me at least I have been pleased reading kotaku in the last 2 years.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I've seen a lot of smug twitter comments about how people 'missed the point' of Alexander's piece on gamers. I feel I am one of those people. Anybody care to explain what I missed? To me it seemed like trolling clickbait, or industry circle jerking. Her assessment of her career as a 'culture journalist' is a continued source of amusement for me and when she said 'lately I'm not sure what that means' I kind of chuckled.

 

[Bossking]

I see a lot of people talking about boycotting Kotaku and emailing our ad sponsors or whatever, again not realizing that Kotaku is one of the very few outlets in this field that does real journalism. It's pathetic.

 

[LordJim]

As for their audience being driven away, the Reddit trolls and 4chan armies I'm betting weren't visiting sites like Kotaku or Gamasutra in the first place.

You are talking about dozens thousands of people.
Though they are likely they use Adblock Edge, Noscript and what have you.

 

[Dugna]

Maybe because they still love the video game industry and the great things it, despite large portions of it's consumer base being in arrested development?

Still doesn't explain why they want to work as journalists or critics, when you choose that job you're basically accepting to be criticized or judged because you yourself are doing it. I mean tons of people love the industry and the things in it but they decide to not join those jobs because they understand that.

Just because you love the industry doesn't excuse the fact that your opinions can and probably do effect other peoples lives and since they do they deserve to be criticized.

 

[Tetsuo9]

.

Do you know that they ended up covering the story right?

 

[Lothars]

I see a lot of people talking about boycotting Kotaku and emailing our ad sponsors or whatever, again not realizing that Kotaku is one of the very few outlets in this field that does real journalism. It's pathetic.

I haven't seen one example of Kotaku doing real journalism.

 

[Kayhan]

Corruption in the gaming press is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT gaming news story that absolutely should be covered and absolutely would constitute real journalism.

Calling corruption a small issue is absurd.

 

[Gsak]

Do you know that they ended up covering the story right?

Scripta Manent.

 

[Shinta]

He was criticized, rightly, but then changed course.

I think he might do something like that with this as well. That's better than people calling all gamers misogynists.

Pick your battles I guess. They're at least talking to commenters. Think about that. I honestly don't think anyone else even does that anymore. Most advocate specifically avoiding everything we even say.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I haven't seen one example of Kotaku doing real journalism.

Ok that's hardly fair. Look up his posts on kotaku. Not only is jshreier a fantastic writer, he is a textbook journalist that has an absolute passion for his subject matter.

 

[LordJim]

I haven't seen one example of Kotaku doing real journalism.

That is a tad unfair. While I would consider majority of stories far below par, they have had some actually good stories and interviews the last 18 months

 

[Fehyd]

That is a tad unfair. While I would consider majority of stories far below par, they have had some actually good stories and interviews the last 18 months

Polygon on the other hand... lol

 

[D i Z]

You didnt hear?
We called the UN but EA Veto'd.

Someone should note that this was funny.

 

[TheActtionFigure]

Kotaku is the only gaming site that I frequent regularly. I know they get a lot of shit but I love the layout, (most) personalities, and the features. Whether or not one of their writers broke some code of ethics is irrelevant to me as I've always seen Kotaku as entertainment. That leads into my point for posting...

I think that most people in the gaming community take game's journalism waaaay too seriously. It's just entertainment folks! Reading most game sites is like reading well written ads for videogames. It was only in my youth where I felt like I could trust a complete stranger at a game outlet for anything other than informing me what's being released next. If you feel like you can't validate your own opinion with some journo because he/she got goodies for doing their job then congratulations. You are now a free thinker.

 

[mavs]

I haven't seen one example of Kotaku doing real journalism.

They used to be banned on this forum. They were unbanned because of one example you haven't seen.

 

[Dugna]

Ok that's hardly fair. Look up his posts on kotaku. Not only is jshreier a fantastic writer, he is a textbook journalist that has an absolute passion for his subject matter.

That's why I wont insult Jason, and the only piece I hate of his is the "Dragon's Crown" one. I have respect for him but not so much the rest of Kotaku.

 

[Lothars]

They used to be banned on this forum. They were unbanned because of one example you haven't seen.

I am not really referring to him as a journalist but I am referring about Kotaku. I haven't had an issue with his writings for the most part but Kotaku is far and away a site that i don't trust for journalistic writings

Edit: do you have a link to it? I would like to read that.

 

[Gsak]

This whole mess can have a good outcome, provided that gaming press listens to the people, engage them in civil discussion and work for improving gaming culture and the industry, together. As it is now, it all but seems like the gaming press is against their audience.

Press and audience alike, must make coordinated efforts to minimize the voices of the people who are hate-mongering, the negative issues/aspects of the industry, etc. Gaming is open for all. Let's act like it. Let's act like the damn open-minded community we want to be.

 

[Kayhan]

This whole mess can have a good outcome, provided that gaming press listens to the people, engage them in civil discussion and work for improving gaming culture and the industry, together.

Haven't you paid attention to all the articles that came out at the same time? Gamers are over. Games media don't need 'em. They are better than all that.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Corruption in the gaming press is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT gaming news story that absolutely should be covered and absolutely would constitute real journalism.

Calling corruption a small issue is absurd.

In the grand scheme of things, the actual corruption in the gaming news industry isn't all that important. Even within the gaming press, especially since there's not a lot of evidence of any actual corruption. At most, we have that a reporter who was in a relationship with an indy developer heaped praise on her games. OK, so what, that developer got to be kinda poor instead of stupidly poor? The horror.

The rest of it is conspiratorial garbage involving gifs of Mass Effect & Doritos, journalists being paid off because they gave a game the wrong score, and lots and lots of sexism.

Still doesn't explain why they want to work as journalists or critics, when you choose that job you're basically accepting to be criticized or judged because you yourself are doing it. I mean tons of people love the industry and the things in it but they decide to not join those jobs because they understand that.

Just because you love the industry doesn't excuse the fact that your opinions can and probably do effect other peoples lives and since they do they deserve to be criticized.

Those who can't do, write. And I say that, as somebody who likes to write. Roger Ebert loved the movie industry. He figured out he wasn't cut out for the movie making side of things. So, he wrote.

And yeah, criticize games press and review. There's plenty of cogent actual criticism of various reviews out there. But, it's about 2% that and 98%, "the check must of/must of not come in for that game" type of criticism.

You are talking about dozens thousands of people.
Though they are likely they use Adblock Edge, Noscript and what have you.

Right. What is a percentage of nothing? Nothing.

But they are part of that "cesspool"!
They are not special for writing about games, they are just one of the mass of gamers that happened to luck out with a writing job and lots of them are no better than the avg fanboy anyway!

I'll say that even the lowliest IGN writer who does nothing but do reviews for 3DS shovelware is still likely better than the mass of gamers, just by the fact they were able to engage in the process of emailing and interacting with people to get the gig in the first place. Unfortunately, basic human interaction skills gives you a bonus in this industry.

This whole mess can have a good outcome, provided that gaming press listens to the people, engage them in civil discussion and work for improving gaming culture and the industry, together. As it is now, it all but seems like the gaming press is against their audience.

Press and audience alike, must make coordinated efforts to minimize the voices of the people who are hate-mongering, the negative issues/aspects of the industry, etc. Gaming is open for all. Let's act like it. Let's act like the damn open-minded community we want to be.

I don't think you get it. The "people" want to still be able to call women bitches via voice chat, have every female character look like a porn star, and so on. If you're for a more inclusive gaming community, then the gaming press isn't against, no matter how many times they use the word 'gamer' negatively.

See how that sounds like a blanket statement? Let's not generalize. Not everyone on Reddit is a troll and not everyone on 4chan is part of an army. If anything the most recent mention of an "army" I've seen was Leigh Alexander's. "I am louder than you and we have an army".

I'm not making a blanket statement. I saw what was actually posted upvoted, responded too, and raged about on Reddit during this whole entire fiasco. The most upvoted post on the Reddit thread about Totalbiscuit's post with 855 upvotes is a diatribe that has great lines such as "If Anita Sarkeesian wasn't lying (which, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if she was)," so yeah, among the people interested in this situation on Reddit, it ain't a great group of human beings.

Again, I've said this before. NeoGAF is a bubble. It's a nice bubble. But, it is a bubble.

 

[Punchy4486]

Difference sure but you must have known that a statement like that would have raised more than a few eyebrows.

I'm sure you flipped out when the media reported on Brian Singer being sued for having sex with an underage boy, too?

Or is THAT news, but this isn't?

When you're covering an industry, and someone of note in that industry is sued, that is news. Truth to the allegations or not, it should be reported.

Like the Republicans suing Obama. They are full of shit, but it's news.

 

[Shingro]

Watching this all go down I deeply regret it wasn't third wave that hit Gaming first. If Gaming Feminism had started with an approach of "You know who is awesome? Bayonetta. She's got complete authority over her sexuality and it's baked into her character and she fights a crazy angel patriarchy and is awesome doing it. What if we *included more* of that sort of thing. I feel we'd be much further along in a far less combative area. As it is most of the big events in gaming feminism is variations on a "This part isn't acceptable" theme that's real hard to take for any medium. Much less one fundamentally created out of people's dreams and fantasies.

That's why I wont insult Jason, and the only piece I hate of his is the "Dragon's Crown" one. I have respect for him but not so much the rest of Kotaku.

Don't get me wrong, the dragon's crown thing was bad from every angle that isn't a very stringent second wave view, and even by that perspective it's better to criticize the cut-ins.

BUT

It feels like he's understood the issue and gained a certain amount of perspective over it. He hasn't done anything similar since and he's generally tried to be even handed about things. In this most recent case, when pretty much everyone else isn't really interested in it.

Credit where credit is due, and criticism where criticism is due. He already got poked at for the DC piece, might as well leave sleeping dragons lie.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

I've personally never had a problem with the relationship between the games press and developers, and i enjoy opinion pieces like Alexanders. I do hope out of all this, some new website emerges, like a CNN of gaming, with Cronkite-like reporting, and Barbara Walters style interviews. I personally wouldn't be interested in it, but it seems there is a market for truly objective reporting. I imagine it would be difficult to go to events like PAX and E3 for years, interviewing the same developers, and not form some type of personal relationship.

 

[Averon]

This whole mess can have a good outcome, provided that gaming press listens to the people, engage them in civil discussion and work for improving gaming culture and the industry, together. As it is now, it all but seems like the gaming press is against their audience.

Press and audience alike, must make coordinated efforts to minimize the voices of the people who are hate-mongering, the negative issues/aspects of the industry, etc. Gaming is open for all. Let's act like it. Let's act like the damn open-minded community we want to be.

Sadly, this is not happening. The gaming press despise what currently makes up the vast majority of their readership. Shaming, broad brushing, insults, condescension, and ridicule seems to be their answer.

 

[jschreier]

This whole mess can have a good outcome, provided that gaming press listens to the people, engage them in civil discussion and work for improving gaming culture and the industry, together. As it is now, it all but seems like the gaming press is against their audience.

Press and audience alike, must make coordinated efforts to minimize the voices of the people who are hate-mongering, the negative issues/aspects of the industry, etc. Gaming is open for all. Let's act like it. Let's act like the damn open-minded community we want to be.

I am frustrated by this situation because I feel like Kotaku does more real reporting and has higher standards of ethics and transparency than just about any other outlet in this field, but we are the target of this crusade nonetheless.

Either way, we will move forward by continuing to scrutinize ourselves and our ethical standards as much as possible, and continuing to try to do great work. I just interviewed Hironobu Sakaguchi and can't wait to share it with readers.

 

[unbias]

Games press have friendly and accepting gamers they meet with. They're called other members of the games press and game developers.

Trolls or not, that's the reaction people in the games press I get, so frankly, again, yeah, I'd hate my audience too. I'm sure writers from Yahoo News feel high 'n' mighty when they look at the comments section as well.

But, even on youtube, when you hear someone like Emily Grasile talk about it, she makes it undoubtedly clear that the majority of comments are positive(that is on youtube). So if you can look down on people for a % of comments on a internet page, I'd say you have an unhealthy perspective of yourself.

then you post this:

If 90% of the interaction I had with my audience was comments either implying I was paid off

Even as an exaggeration this is being intellectually dishonest, I mean, unless you can show that there is even close to a 90% majority that are shit comments. Of course, judging by your tone in your messages, maybe you already think of yourself as better then 90% of the internet, according to the bold? And if you can get the mentality of the bold, just from internet comments, chances are you were already like that. But honestly, it doesnt matter, I'm pretty sure Bill O'Reilly thinks the same thing, because he probably gets a crapton of stupid comments thrown his way as well, so that's clearly why he thinks it.

I'd feel high and mighty compared to my audience.

Did kotaku ever apologize? Ever? to Brad.

Out of all the things to complain about, you choose the serious matter they handled correctly. They didnt even add any Op-ed in that:

http://kotaku.com/5940401/pc-gaming...after-she-sued-the-boss-for-sexual-harassment

http://kotaku.com/stardock-lawsuits-dropped-ex-employee-apologizes-1377925759

Writing that both cases were dismissed and that she had to apologize was the limit to what they had to do. Seems you got some of your stories mixed up, because that one was handled better then the allegations article, by far.

I posted that on Twitter because it was a Saturday and I'm in Seattle, off the clock. It's got nothing to do with Leigh, who I respect quite a bit and have no problem criticizing. We may address this GamerGate thing when we're back in the office Tuesday, but that's Stephen's call, not mine.

Who you respect and who you disagree with, personally, shouldn't technically be our business because as long as the press handle ethics properly it doesn't matter.

However, twitter does make it seem like the gossip in the game industry is at least as vicious as normal traditional media. There does seem to be an appearance of circling the wagon for a select few(thanks to twitter) if you vocalize any dissension with group think. And while I have not seen you do this in a very long time, unfortunately, all game press gets lumped in together, because of twitter trolls, gossip, and the usual stuff that comes with the internet.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

I'm not making a blanket statement. I saw what was actually posted upvoted, responded too, and raged about on Reddit during this whole entire fiasco. The most upvoted post on the Reddit thread about Totalbiscuit's post with 855 upvotes is a diatribe that has great lines such as "If Anita Sarkeesian wasn't lying (which, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if she was)," so yeah, among the people interested in this situation on Reddit, it ain't a great group of human beings.

Again, I've said this before. NeoGAF is a bubble. It's a nice bubble. But, it is a bubble.

Every online community is a bubble though, whether it is an extremely polite community or one built around hate for others, the same applies to social groups too. This whole thing started when a few bubbles groups harassed a person, then a few bubble groups harassed a bunch of people in return. If the small self contained bubbles of the internet are relevant to the topic then doesn't this whole argument hinge on a selection of bubbles arguing with another selection, meanwhile a huge majority bubble in the middle is left wondering why they were dragged into it?

I just interviewed Hironobu Sakaguchi and can't wait to share it with readers.

Please tell me you pressed him on his Last Story comments recently and different platform mentions. (even if he was joking)

 

[Shinta]

I've personally never had a problem with the relationship between the games press and developers, and i enjoy opinion pieces like Alexanders. I do hope out of all this, some new website emerges, like a CNN of gaming, with Cronkite-like reporting, and Barbara Walters style interviews.

That's kind of what Polygon claimed they were going to be. And they had some extremely long, high quality long-form features. But the vision just didn't work out for a whole host of reasons.

There is truth to the claim that it will always be entertainment, and not like CNN. The clicks fall that way too. Even CNN is going that way now actually.

But I draw the line at pushing an agenda, bullying people and spreading hateful stereotypes and causing negative outcomes in the real world. Then it's not just entertainment, the journalism is actively damaging multiple aspects of our gaming environment and shared cultural values. Corruption pushing certain games instead of others can have negative outcomes in the real world too, even if we look at all this as just entertainment.

 

[Riposte]

I don't think it is fair to judge all of reddit for certain posts or topics being highly rated. It's all relative.

Reddit is bad compared to GAF, but you're measuring just how bad in faulty ways.

 

[mavs]

I am not really referring to him as a journalist but I am referring about Kotaku. I haven't had an issue with his writings for the most part but Kotaku is far and away a site that i don't trust for journalistic writings

Edit: do you have a link to it? I would like to read that.

I was being dramatic. I don't actually remember why they were unbanned, but I think it was when Sony or some other game company blacklisted them for reporting on an upcoming project.

By "They" I meant Kotaku. When people tried to link there it showed up as http://www.******.com/

 

[Gsak]

I am frustrated by this situation because I feel like Kotaku does more real reporting and has higher standards of ethics and transparency than just about any other outlet in this field, but we are the target of this crusade nonetheless.

Either way, we will move forward by continuing to scrutinize ourselves and our ethical standards as much as possible, and continuing to try to do great work. I just interviewed Hironobu Sakaguchi and can't wait to share it with readers.

Jason I'm not addressing you as part of Kotaku. I'm addressing you as part of the gaming press, a fellow gamer and human being. I am not discussing Kotaku in particular. I am talking about this whole situation. And I would like to know what's your take on this, beyond Kotaku,

 

[WARP10CK]

I'm sure you flipped out when the media reported on Brian Singer being sued for having sex with an underage boy, too?

Or is THAT news, but this isn't?

When you're covering an industry, and someone of note in that industry is sued, that is news. Truth to the allegations or not, it should be reported.

Like the Republicans suing Obama. They are full of shit, but it's news.

True but they have accused someone of something without being sure if he was guilty or not the article Patricia Hernandez wrote about Max Temkin for instance.
She had to edit this article a few times and nobody raised and eyebrow then, even though this was a highly questionable article.
She basicly declare the man guilty without knowing the facts of the case.

http://kotaku.com/a-different-way-to-respond-to-a-rape-accusation-update-1605542083

 

[jschreier]

Jason I'm not addressing you as part of Kotaku. I'm addressing you as part of the gaming press, a fellow gamer and human being. I am not discussing Kotaku in particular. I am talking about this whole situation. And I would like to know what's your take on this, beyond Kotaku,

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s71k8k

 

[MHWilliams]

See how that sounds like a blanket statement? Let's not generalize. Not everyone on Reddit is a troll and not everyone on 4chan is part of an army. If anything the most recent mention of an "army" I've seen was Leigh Alexander's. "I am louder than you and we have an army".

"All journalists are corrupt or hate their audience" is just as much a blanket statement. I'm unsure how you can hate "the gamers are mysogynist" blanket argument and then turn around and do the same thing. You get me?

I haven't seen one example of Kotaku doing real journalism.

From Jason, just off the random.

Watching this all go down I deeply regret it wasn't third wave that hit Gaming first. If Gaming Feminism had started with an approach of "You know who is awesome? Bayonetta. She's got complete authority over her sexuality and it's baked into her character and she fights a crazy angel patriarchy and is awesome doing it. What if we *included more* of that sort of thing. I feel we'd be much further along in a far less combative area. As it is most of the big events in gaming feminism is variations on a "This part isn't acceptable" theme that's real hard to take for any medium. Much less one fundamentally created out of people's dreams and fantasies.

Alternatively, you can do both. You can approach it from a ton of different perspectives. Having a wide variety of voices is important.

On the "Gamer" thing, I'm certainly not going to be arguing for "Gamer is dead" because it's in my site's name. I have no problem with the term and will continue to use it in stories. Leigh's perspective is her own.