Northeastmonk
Gold Member
You wonder where business ethics went. A suit, a tie, or a nice hand shake at the end of a conversation. Anymore it's the maintenance attitude to life and your job.
Destiny - Review Thread
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You wonder where business ethics went. A suit, a tie, or a nice hand shake at the end of a conversation. Anymore it's the maintenance attitude to life and your job.
No, they chose to tell THE story of the game, and they chose not to inundate the games with all the extended fiction that wasn't important to it. You can't ACTUALLY be this dense, so why be obtuse? In Halo there is a LOT MORE you can learn if you want to step outside the bounds of the story, but the universe is as explained as it should be for an actual narrative. In Destiny, the narrative is barebones and to even appreciate what little there is, you have to go to a fucking website. These two things are wholly dissimilar.
Sometimes...things have faults.
Do you think Ebert or A.O. Scott went into a film looking to shit on it? You call a spade a spade.
In an industry where all the outlets are shat on for being shills after GTA4, GTA5, etc., the moment everyone actually calls bullshit - they get tagged for being haters.
Dude, relax. The caps make you seem internet-obstinate, which is on another level. I was just trying to get information about the game. You were fundamentally wrong in saying that you could understand 100% of the characters and plot via the game; but after this post, I see your criticism of the presentation of Destiny's story elements more clearly: it doesn't seem to take the time or effort to establish much of anything in-game.
I really don't see them as dissimilar approaches at all - Destiny just seems like it's more on the extreme side of utilizing abstractions.
The issue is more that people are seeing their own shadows when making these assertions. They are being paranoid, rather than actually calling out people who are committing that's legitimate issue. The complaint cannot be forgotten, but can also not be simply put on whoever says something negative or positive. Issue lies on both sides of the spectrum. It's another classic case of the Internet doing something in going too far with it.
blame space
Banned
this game owns
Your second and third sentences are absolutely confounding. I actually don't know what you're trying to say.
Care to give it another try? Not trying to be a jerk. It just seems like a verb is missing/the wrong verb was used in sentence two.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Tell me the story. That's my negative thing about it.
Seems fine to me. Just makes me think you're not even trying to put in an effort.
It's a legitimate complaint. Dismissing it is just as bad as making the assertion. People make these claims with little basis other than it being positive or negative. It just shows they are being paranoid over things they disagree with. This applies to both the negative reviews and the positive reviews. It is a classic example of the Internet doing what it does best and taking things too far. Dismissing it because of that possibility is wrong, because it is still a legitimate point.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
The Original Leak + Full Document
*Note* this is in regards to Halo: Reach. However, Metascore is apparently a major factor to Activision according to the document.
Just thought this might be interesting to some, I'm not at all implying Bungie is about to get nuked by Uncle Bobby and Co. After all, the game is selling like mad.
Haven't finished the story. Just enjoying the coop in PvE with friends. The voice acting in the Reef cutscenes I've seen so far has felt like, well, Halo. It's what I was expecting. Loving the lore and the world Bungie has created.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Yeah, as someone who loves stories in games (they can sometimes be 90% of the reason I play a specific game), I like to try to pay real close attention to it but in Destiny I had no idea what I was doing, why I was doing it, and how it was protecting the universe. Those details weren't explained in full. Don't get me wrong, I had a general idea, but the connection wasn't even close (plus going from objective to objective within a story mission wasn't even very well explained either and often times I had no idea why what I was doing was important). Pretty much the story is this: Ghost knows everything and you're just along for the ride (and to protect Ghost).
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Poodlestrike
Banned
I can tell you the story just fine, actually. It'd take a bit, and I'm tired and lazy, but I could do it. It's just that the way they tell you that story sucks so damn much.
WHat kind of madness is this?
Are you really trying to say reviewers who did not like many aspects of the game went in predisposed to do so?
I have not read a single review that did not seem as if they didn't want the game to be more than it eventually turned out to be, if anything a lot of the reviewers seemed apologetic for their opinion \.
They don't have to. People are allowed to dislike the game, and I'm allowed to not understand why. I lack empathy when it comes to gaming.
I just enjoy the game to such a high degree that the negativity leaves me puzzled. Maybe when it reach end game stuff I will understand the criticisms.
Monocle
Member
Yep, I should be surprised but somehow I'm totally not.
This idea that reviewers should be unbiased is complete nonsense. Bias is essential, because the last thing you want is a reviewer who second-guesses their own critical judgment and fails to tell readers about potential flaws in the item they're reviewing.
As a consumer, I need reviews to give me enough information to decide if I should make a purchase. It's up to the reviewer to present 1) facts, and 2) their interpretation of those facts. That way I get a clear picture of the product and a (hopefully) well articulated opinion about it. Then I can decide whether or not the product appeals to me, and whether or not the reviewer's experience with it seems likely to match my own.
It's not about the damn number and it's not a matter of approaching the product with a fault-finding agenda. It's about being thorough and honest.
It's almost like a team sport at this point. "My team is the best, and if you don't cheer for them too you're a horrible person!"
Most people don't tend to carry on playing games they hate. I believe that's what you call masochistic. Those who really dislike it will probably have traded it in already whilst the trade in value is at its peak. Hell I can get the same trade in value I paid for the game (£35).
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Go on then, I'll wait.
Lore?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Hating a game and being disappointed in how it turned out are 2 different things
silvermember
Banned
You would be wrong, said a lot of mmo players.
ArkkAngel007
Member
There's a difference between disappointment/disliking a certain element and hating the game.
Not sure why this has been turned into a black & white and us vs them thread. I like the game, but yeah, some things fell short that hopefully will be patched or presented better in upcoming content.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I think you're strawmanning it a bit. Very, very few people have professed anything like hate for the game; the majority seems to be a sense of a disappointment or dissatisfaction with certain elements, like the story, the repetitive mission structure, etc. The core gameplay loop is very, very good.
A bias is closer to being an agenda than an opinion. I think you're making this mistake here.
Oh fair enough. I was referring to people who out right hate it, or say it's terrible, awful etc. Obviously that's not the same as just being disappointed with it.
Ah, you wrote "that's" when you meant "that." But, sure, be a jerk.
You're being intellectual dishonest if you think there's little basis for the specific criticism within this avenue.
The content inasmuch as the single player campaign is threadbare. Sure, you can say that the competitive bits extend value, but the way they sold this is as a melding of multiplayer experience and a tight single player campaign that Bungie is known for and, in many's eyes, they fell short. Call it expectation management. Call it overambition. The result is being measured against the developer's pedigree.
Not to mention that it feels weird to a lot of people - particularly the Giant Bomb folks - that they talked about an expansion weeks prior to release - for a game that feels so very threadbare.
The mythology Bungie has/is created/ing.
Monocle
Member
Then people should call out bias when they see bias, not mislabel a critical opinion as bias because they disagree with it.
Well, here are some big criticisms players and reviewers have pointed out:
-The missions are repetitive: protect Ghost and kill a wave of enemies. Vanilla WoW had more quest variety.
-The worlds are sterile. Besides the occasional chest or fallen ghost, there are few side activities to accomplish. Public events are also extremely rare.
-For a game that prides itself on player interaction, the decisions made for social features are mindboggling. There is no chat system and no way to communicate with players outside of a fire squad. You can't even communicate in multiplayer. Having other players in the world feels pointless due to the lack of communication and the rarity of public events. Even clans aren't even in the game, which makes them feel pointless.
-There is barely any story, and what story there is comes out as cheesy and lackluster. Peter Dinkledge's performance is poor (due to the dialogue mostly). The backstory to the game is also located online instead.
-Bosses are bullet-sponges and have very few mechanics that make them more than larger mobs.
I know that but it is barley in the game.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I agree with you, but to reinforce your point:
You are a Guardian being watched by the Stranger but initially found by your Ghost who was sent by the Traveler to be given a mission from the Speaker to fight the Darkness...
If you can't already tell what's wrong with the story so far, then I don't know what to tell you..
But again, there is a general frame for the story but I can't pretend to say that it all made sense to me.
Yeah. Spent a bunch of my posts here saying that. That and that dismissing the possibility because people are being silly just opens the opportunity to do as much.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
From the press that got the $60k sports sedan =p
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
TBH, I felt that BI also squandered vast amounts of potential.
Edit: to post something relevant , what was the fireteam sign up site?
Reviews press widely gives Game X middling reviews.
Gaming journalist-created conspiracy or the game has issues?
I'll let Occam's Razor do its work.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Sigh. Alright. Edited for brevity and only dealing with the main content.
-You are awoken by a Ghost, a fragment of the Traveler given sentience and tasked with supporting the Guardians, those capable of wielding the Traveler's light against those that would threaten the solar system (sorta).
-As you travel through Old Russia, you become aware that a Warmind (a powerful AI that coordinated the Solar System's military forces during the Golden Age) survived, and apparently the Hive have a) set up shop on Earth and b) are trying to kill it.
-Looking to understand the new Hive presence on Earth, you go to the moon, where you discover that they're massing an invasion.
-You successfully defuse the upcoming invasion by destroying a Shrine of Oryx, which the Hive use to communicate with their god/king/godking. At some point (memory's a bit cloudy), you also receive a message warning you of a much worse threat brewing on Venus, so you head there to check it out.
-When you reach Venus, you begin clashing with a mysterious race of robots known as the Vex. A mysterious Exo Hunter (who isn't a Guardian, interestingly enough) tells you that these Vex are the absolute worst of the worst out there, and you should really put some effort into stopping them. Apparently they're headquarted in something called the Black Garden, and the Queen of the Reef can help you get there. So you set out for the Reef.
-The Reef is a very strange place. The Queen and her Brother seem to rule there, and they're not terribly fond of outsiders (especially the brother). Still, she thinks it might be useful to have a Guardian owe her a favor, so she tells you that to get into the Black Garden you need to get her the head of a Vex Gate Lord. Having done so, she makes her brother give you the component you need. Unfortunately, it's dead. In the further interest of a) stopping the Vex and b) making absolutely certain both you and the rest of the Guardians would owe her, she makes you aware that you need to go to Mars to recharge the thing. So you do.
-On Mars, you successfully recharge the Gate Lord thingy, though you have to kick the ass of quite a few members of the Cabal (a race of interstellar conquerers using Roman legionare tactics, more or less) to do it. After that, you raid the Black Garden. Once there, you discover something peculiar: the Vex do inded exist in the past, present, and future, and they coordinate across all three. They have begun worshipping an entity they discovered... somewhere, and are conquering reality for it. Apparently, it's vulnerable to something the Guardians are able to bring to the table, so after a quick boss fight it flees. Queue self-congratulatory "this is only the beginning" cutscene.
-As you travel through Old Russia, you become aware that a Warmind (a powerful AI that coordinated the Solar System's military forces during the Golden Age) survived, and apparently the Hive have a) set up shop on Earth and b) are trying to kill it.
-Looking to understand the new Hive presence on Earth, you go to the moon, where you discover that they're massing an invasion.
-You successfully defuse the upcoming invasion by destroying a Shrine of Oryx, which the Hive use to communicate with their god/king/godking. At some point (memory's a bit cloudy), you also receive a message warning you of a much worse threat brewing on Venus, so you head there to check it out.
-When you reach Venus, you begin clashing with a mysterious race of robots known as the Vex. A mysterious Exo Hunter (who isn't a Guardian, interestingly enough) tells you that these Vex are the absolute worst of the worst out there, and you should really put some effort into stopping them. Apparently they're headquarted in something called the Black Garden, and the Queen of the Reef can help you get there. So you set out for the Reef.
-The Reef is a very strange place. The Queen and her Brother seem to rule there, and they're not terribly fond of outsiders (especially the brother). Still, she thinks it might be useful to have a Guardian owe her a favor, so she tells you that to get into the Black Garden you need to get her the head of a Vex Gate Lord. Having done so, she makes her brother give you the component you need. Unfortunately, it's dead. In the further interest of a) stopping the Vex and b) making absolutely certain both you and the rest of the Guardians would owe her, she makes you aware that you need to go to Mars to recharge the thing. So you do.
-On Mars, you successfully recharge the Gate Lord thingy, though you have to kick the ass of quite a few members of the Cabal (a race of interstellar conquerers using Roman legionare tactics, more or less) to do it. After that, you raid the Black Garden. Once there, you discover something peculiar: the Vex do inded exist in the past, present, and future, and they coordinate across all three. They have begun worshipping an entity they discovered... somewhere, and are conquering reality for it. Apparently, it's vulnerable to something the Guardians are able to bring to the table, so after a quick boss fight it flees. Queue self-congratulatory "this is only the beginning" cutscene.
See, I don't have to like the story, but I do understand it. It's just that they way they tell it sucks so damn hard. So very, very hard.
Is that really what you got from it? I haven't completed the story yet, but what I've got from it is that there is this powerful entity called the traveller that came to our galaxy randomly and changed things for the better. The golden age, providing technology, power, protection etc. A mystical planet type object that was revered and processed great knowledge, history and power.
Unfortunately there are other things after it, that have been for aeons, referred to as the darkness, which followed the Traveller in order to obtain it's power, and egnited a massive war that ended the golden age and destroyed much of life in the galaxy.
Now the Traveller, weakened, still protects the last city in the galaxy, but is increasingly weakened by the darkness.
You, a Guardian, coupled with other Guardians are the last hope. Essentially soldiers and saviours, and the speaker (the leader of the citadel) has tasked you with missions that set you on your adventure in saving the galaxy. You also have a Ghost, a remnant of the traveller, that accompanies you on your journey.
Poodlestrike
Banned
See, my problem is that that's not a story. It's a premise. A story needs stuff like characters, which the game is simply lacking in.
If you don't know why people are being negative about this game, you haven't read the many arguments from people who aren't big fans. There are some pretty compelling ones, and this is coming from a guy who is enjoying it.
The main sources of the 'negativity'.
- Repetetive mission design without significant setpiece moments. Usually mission design involves fighting through rooms of enemies to reach a specific location, summoning the ghost, and then fighting waves of enemies until they are all dead. Mission ends.
- A severe lack of story or noticeable characters within the game itself, including some poorly written dialogue with a lot of vague sci-fi terms to sound important. (The Light, The Darkness, Guardians, Ghosts, Evil so evil it hates other evil... stuff like that.)
- An endgame that places heavy emphasis on grinding strikes over and over again to obtain better gear.
- Strikes that just take regular enemies, pump up their health, and deem them bosses rather than giving them any interesting or cool mechanics. Bosses that take way too long not because they're difficult, but because their health has been artificially inflated to massive proportions.
- No proximity voice chat or meaningful interactions with other people unless they're in your firesquad.
- Only 4 crucible gametypes.
There are many others. Now whether or not you agree with these criticisms is up to you, but there's no way you don't "understand" the negativity. It's quite clear where that is coming from.
Hiphopgamer in meltdown mode.
ANSWER THAT...
Dude just put out a Destiny rap, of course he's upset the game isn't getting the praise he wants it to,
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I find it hard to swallow that Destiny is getting lower scores than Titanfall... this does feel a bit like a rebound witchhunt.
They think Destiny's story is lacking? I don't remember anything that happened in TF's... and I played 40 or so hours of both campaign and MP.
Well I do remember one thing, some guy called McSomething
blew himself up
Guns feel better in Destiny, character progression is amazing and the loot/gear system is great (albeit, needing some tweaking ala PvP rewards etc), the world is actually interesting.. the more I think about it, how the hell did TF get the scores it got?
It has characters, your ghost, the Speaker, the Exo stranger, the Awoken Queen and her brother etc. They're just not very prominent or well fleshed out.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I got more from it -- I understood what happened, but the point was that you are never introduced to actual characters. They are all just titles to me; not characters. There was only ever one real character within the game (Ghost) by the sole reason that there had to be some character there since he was with the player character the entire game and the only other interesting character in the game was the
Queen of the Reef
The difference between Destiny and TitanFall is that Respawn never pretended that a core part of the game would be the campaign. We all knew that there was some form of campaign multiplayer, but that never (for me, at least) instilled confidence that there would be a competently told story within a multiplayer match against other players. The main marketing power of that game was its gameplay and the Titan vs. Pilot scenarios. With Destiny, however, the story was heralded as one that would be looked at as a 'Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter' and it was from Bungie who, in the past, has made really good FPS stories. Honestly, both games are lacking in content (with Destiny the endless content is just repeating the same thing over and over and over again) but TitanFall's content is more fun to actually play in general (I say in general to say that there are times when Destiny could very well be a whole lot more fun than TitanFall but it requires more things than TitanFall where you can just start playing it by yourself).
I do think TitanFall deserves a better score than Destiny, honestly. The two games themselves couldn't be anymore different though. The only comparable thing between the two is the marketing hype behind them, but Destiny's hype was so much far and above what even TitanFall's was. TitanFall at least lived up to basic promises at the very least.
DaleinCalgary
Member
I hope I can last that long to feel the same as you. Most likely I trade it in monday.
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