So please inform us what is he talking because no one has a clue.
DRIVECLUB: 30 minutes of new Beta footage
- Thread starter viveks86
- Start date
There are only 4 things you need to make a good racing game.
1) Good communicative handling. This is the most important part IMO, it can swing sim or arcade but cars need to feel weighty and you need to be able to predict what it is going to do when you turn in and so on. Solid handling makes driving a pleasure.
2) Good AI. This is very important to achieve good close racing, if the game has an online component then good matchmaking is also important for the same reason. Close, hard fought racing is what I play racing games for so getting this part right is important.
3) Good tracks. These can be real world or made up (or a bit of both) but they need to be solid and enjoyable to drive to maximise the experience. They also need to challenge the driver with blind apexes, tightening radius turns, off camber turns, elevation changes etc (they do not all have to feature in each track though). Stuff like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, Eau Rouge in Spa, Maggots - Becketts in Silverstone etc are the kind of challenges I mean.
4) Sense of speed. This is also important to give you the buzz of making a great overtaking move into a tight corner or hanging it around the outside of a sweeping bend. A good sense of speed really adds to the feel of the game.
If you get those 4 aspects correct the extra fluff like open world, car selection, mini games, graphics and so on do not matter as much because the core racing experience is solid and enjoyable. The extra stuff can defiantly add to the game though and the graphics / atmospheric simulation (doubly so when weather is released) of DC do seem to add to the experience at the moment.
Now all we know about DC at the moment is that it has a good sense of speed. Only those who have played the beta/show floor demos know about the other 3 aspects but the reports are tending to be quite good with talks of aggressive AI and good handling. I for one am really looking forward to playing it.
1) Good communicative handling. This is the most important part IMO, it can swing sim or arcade but cars need to feel weighty and you need to be able to predict what it is going to do when you turn in and so on. Solid handling makes driving a pleasure.
2) Good AI. This is very important to achieve good close racing, if the game has an online component then good matchmaking is also important for the same reason. Close, hard fought racing is what I play racing games for so getting this part right is important.
3) Good tracks. These can be real world or made up (or a bit of both) but they need to be solid and enjoyable to drive to maximise the experience. They also need to challenge the driver with blind apexes, tightening radius turns, off camber turns, elevation changes etc (they do not all have to feature in each track though). Stuff like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, Eau Rouge in Spa, Maggots - Becketts in Silverstone etc are the kind of challenges I mean.
4) Sense of speed. This is also important to give you the buzz of making a great overtaking move into a tight corner or hanging it around the outside of a sweeping bend. A good sense of speed really adds to the feel of the game.
If you get those 4 aspects correct the extra fluff like open world, car selection, mini games, graphics and so on do not matter as much because the core racing experience is solid and enjoyable. The extra stuff can defiantly add to the game though and the graphics / atmospheric simulation (doubly so when weather is released) of DC do seem to add to the experience at the moment.
Now all we know about DC at the moment is that it has a good sense of speed. Only those who have played the beta/show floor demos know about the other 3 aspects but the reports are tending to be quite good with talks of aggressive AI and good handling. I for one am really looking forward to playing it.
HORRORSHØW
Member
he's talking about cars lined up speaking to him.
yeah, i'm gonna laugh my ass off for a minute.
can these motherfucking concern trolls be anymore transparent?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Oh ... thanks, I thought it was an Only Fools and Horses simulator.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Do you mean Minder?
BloodyJasonMask
Member
Ah gotcha. I must frequent these threads just off of hilarity alone.
I guess he finds point to point races boring, I doubt that's all Driveclub has to offer but that's what I got. I'm guessing he got excited over the Forza pic due to the car selection? It is much more varied than Driveclub's, I'm particularly excited for the Clio Williams. Driveclub really needs some older cars.
boredandlazy
Member
But he likes Project Gotham?
Well PGR has much more than that, cone challenges for instance, cat and mouse, speed challenges, overtake. I'm sure Driveclub will have some variation too.
I know alot of people want to say this is very similar to PGR...but the more I watch Gameplay... the more it reminds me of the original Need For Speed,
before NFS 2- what ever we are at right now.....the first one was more sim racing...while still arcade.. you could easily spin out...as well as do sick donuts before speeding off.
with the original having point to point races....DriveClub seems pretty similar....beside missing Sunday drivers and Police. (but maybe in an update down the road)
before NFS 2- what ever we are at right now.....the first one was more sim racing...while still arcade.. you could easily spin out...as well as do sick donuts before speeding off.
with the original having point to point races....DriveClub seems pretty similar....beside missing Sunday drivers and Police. (but maybe in an update down the road)
I think you're a little off on this list but that's just my opinion. What makes a good racing game can change greatly from person to person. Some people love making liveries in racers and showing off/sharing them online more than the racing itself. Same can be said for creating tuning setups and drag racing. Or creating unique vehicles in games like F Zero. All the things you listed make are things that any competent racer should have (to me), but it's also OK to want exceptional racers that push boundaries.
Some people are happy running the same tracks over and over to shave off milliseconds (which is fine, between GT5 and Forza 5 I've rounded the Nürburgring hundreds of times) but for some people the metagame is the "game" to them. I preordered the Ultimate Edition of Forza Horizon 2 because it felt fresh and feature rich to me, but I'm waiting to see what type of game Driveclub is before I even consider buying it. (Thanks PS+!)
gundamkyoukai
Member
In this day and age gfx do mean a lot it's one of the most important aspect of a racing game to me .
Weather also a important since it can change the race and tack adding extra gameplay aspects .
Ted
Member
Well said sir.
so Driveclub looks sterile...
but this pic
really says something to you..
I'm not going to defend the opinion of the user you are criticising per sé but what the fuck is this creepy post history stalking shit?
So what if that picture says something to him/her AND he/she isn't really feeling DC? That image clearly demonstrates that FH2 and DC have entirely different aims and aspirations and pretty much sit at two different ends of the racing games genre in terms of the feeling they are trying to convey with their car selelction so it seems perfectly possible for someone to want to like both but find themselves fawning more over one than the other.
Also, for the record, you are more than welcome to call me a concern troll as I have also lost much of my hype for DC over the last few months. Perhaps, silenced concern troll would be a better title though as I have pretty much stopped posting any, even what I would view as constructive, critique of any generally positively viewed game because of all the ridiculous and often quite personal dog-piling on pretty much any negative opinion.
Yep DC looks very very pretty but beyond that I think the social stuff isn't even remotely as inclusive as I'd hoped, I'm not as yet convinced by the overall physics, the extensive and costly DLC plans turn me off and I'm still pretty annoyed about Rushy's editing of posts here at GAF talking about the relative size of the PS+ version pre-delay (the actual act of editing rather than reduction in scope is what rankles with me).
Hopefully the minimal PS+ version will answer some of my questions any push me into buying the full game.
If people prefer making liveries more than racing they should buy car livery designer 2015 instead of a racing game. Tuning is a part of sim racing games, and can be a great added feature if the base components are there but if the base components are not there then no amount of tuning features will compensate.
As I said, IMO, those are the 4 points you need to hit to make a good racing game, to make a great or exceptional racing game you do need more on top, be it great graphics with good weather modelling, good livery tools for customisation, good tuning options and so on but if you get one of my 4 points wrong then those added extras will not make up for it.
fallen_dawn
Member
I'm personally quite supportive of the way Evolution are handling the DLC. They have made clear their plans, what is free, and what is not, and when things are dropping. Major updates such as weather are free - as are a number of tracks, and a few cars. Then there's a season pass to cover everything else, should you so wish.
It seems pretty average DLC wise from a racing game, if I'm not mistaken (I don't play too many racers)?
Driveclub literally also has very similar things to that during a race that add to a points total. So it isn't just 'point to point'. If you're not going to win a race you could still earn points for clean overtakes, drifting challenges through some corners, or following a line in one section of a track etc.
Ted
Member
In many cases I have no doubt at all that this is true.
As in most things, there is no one global truth but even in my limited time posting here it definitely feels to me like it is now much harder now to swim against the tide when it comes to console exclusives.
Whilst I'm sure much criticism is taken in the [good] spirit it is meant, I have seen intelligent, well argued points utterly trashed with bullshit drive-by retorts and equally I've seen outright incorrect information or speculative posts hailed as the truth by those on the majority side.
It has become far, far too easy to simply label any negative feeling as concern rather than address it and actually encourage meaningful dialogue.
That's great. I'm genuinely glad you're happy.
The free tracks really should be applauded far more widely.
For me though half the cost of the game again for the season pass (cars and events) doesn't hit my own VFM buttons. Given that it is as yet undocumented what specific content will be included I have no idea how much will be interesting to me, we may know the rough numbers and timescale but I'm much more interested in what actual cars will be added. For example, I couldn't care less for say a modern muscle pack but would love to see some classic muscle.
It's a principle thing I suspect as I inherently dislike "season passes" for most games.
I absolutely agree with your second paragraph but this would make users far less likely to upgrade, the PS+ version is no longer a subscribers reward and now has to be a marketing vehicle for the full game.
There's no point in re-hashing this though as there has been countless threads and posts on both sides of the argument but in my opinion what was originally discussed by Sony and Evolution Studios as the scope of content in the PS+ version (or perhaps better put, the way it was originally discussed) does not mirror what is actually being received by PS+ subscribers.
What if I revealed that I have criticized fundamental design decisions of this very title?
You have posted in previous Driveclub threads and I just went into semi stalker mode and I didn't see anyone mocking or drive-by'ing you? If I missed it then it couldn't have been to the extent of some infamous posts.
Maybe corridor racer and I don't like point to point racing but I love PGR are just not good posts and are not worthy of defense.
One has to be mindful of not lumping together various people in a single group.
But I can certainly understand people that read a lot of Driveclub threads (of which there were many since the announcement) to now default to the position of assuming that others do not post in good faith.
For example I have admitted to mostly reading some threads on this forum because it brings out a lot of shitposting and I find the psychology behind it interesting and amusing.
Summer Haze
Banned
If you were a regular in any of the DC threads that have been made on GAF over the past months, you would understand why.
travisbickle
Member
Summer Haze
Banned
This.
Some people say dumb things that simply don't deserve meaningful or mature discussion. Videos and info of DC have been available for a year now, if you come into a thread of DC to say it lacks character because it doesn't have jumps or shortcuts, you're not going to be taken seriously.
People like this fill up DC threads, and it gets so fucking annoying. If the game isn't for you, then that's fine, but don't start saying it lacks this or that just because it doesn't cater to your tastes. Go play something else, and post in the thread for that game.
boredandlazy
Member
Also with some posts you'd swear most DC threads are Forza Horizon 2 threads. From what I've seen DC fans do a pretty damn good job of keeping that shit out of Forza threads, a little bit of the same courtesy wouldn't go astray.
BradleyLove
Member
DC has in-race challenges that you can compete against other players. I believe there's also the ability to package challenges and send them to friends. So imagine PGR's kudos system (of a sorts) made more customisable and infinitely more sociable.
God I didnt comment con this just in case I was missing something.
Thanks for your comment. It is clear now.
Ted
Member
Well now I just feel violated... something I enjoy immensely. : )
On point, it's a general feeling rather than anything specific related to responses to my own posts. I'm such a dull and usually measured poster that any response at all is unlikely!
To be fair, I did explicitly say I'm not defending the particularly users post content specifically but rather commenting on the fact that someone having wildly different opinions on two wildly different games is hardly something to be surprised about.
Equally, whilst the first part of your sentence (corridor racer) is indeed absolutely ridiculous and should be labelled as the trolling it clearly is, the latter half is not quite as outrageous as you present. DC definitely seems to have a pretty different vibe to PGRn, particularly in terms of track design (from what we have seen so far at least) and that really is the core element of how enjoyable or to your tastes you find the A-B racing.
I couldn't agree more and I guess that was kind of my point in that a number of fair but critical DC posts are being lumped in together as concern trolling. As someone who was genuinely interested in DC but who has real issues about how certain mechanics may (or may not) be implemented, I've broadly chosen to simply shut up and wait for the game and make my own mind up.
And whilst that is ultimately what we should all do when it comes to anything we purchase, it makes for poor discussion on a hobbyist forum!
That's fair enough and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all but I'm personally much more interested in reading well thought out and meaningful content rather than picking through the forum "politics".
EDIT:
The way the social media is developing generally already sets a worrying trend for allowing people to become less and less open to views different from their own (or from their own peer group) and perhaps wider still, basic critical thinking skills. Wishing Neogaf threads become friends feed-esque echo chambers is not, in my opinion, a Good Thing.
Caayn
Member
How many of those "concern trolls" also post in the FH2 threads? Honest question.
boredandlazy
Member
I don't know. Since I don't have an XBOne and never intend to get one, I'm not really interested in Forza. Therefore I tend not to post in those threads.
mangochutney
Member
What are you seeking from the social side? It has quite a bit. Your bog standard racing with your m8s, then racing as a club of your m8s, racing solo but seeing your m8s stat to beat, being able to set a time/score on a custom event and going 'ere m8 u beat dis m8, obviously your standard PS4 share stuff, and in one of the recent leaks, or might have been the presentation we saw what looked to be something inspired by the 'Whats New' section of the PS4 with what looked to be updated on what your m8s have been up to.
It is pretty social and all inclusive. What other ideas do you have?
Yeah, they changed it to 6 players per club...
Thanks.... I guess a few buddies of mine will have to create another club.. damn.
travisbickle
Member
Max 6 in a team, max 12 in a race. Cars unlocked by individual members in your team are available to all.
biglittleps
Member
Its 6 now. Developers wanted clubs to be tight so they can challenge 6 vs 6 and they also said this may change after launch based on feedback.
i think this is their worse mistake especially as they want it to be social and when both the crew and forza horizon have more than 6 player clubs (forza having 1000) I don't think its gonna that social...
While it's true that it would be boring if everyone shut up, at some point there isn't going to be shared more by the marketing department than they have decided to share and all one can do is wait and see what the game is going to be.
Sometimes that means waiting until after the game is out.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that but I'm not someone that has historically pre-ordered games, so I don't get the whole anxiety part about discussing every minutiae pre-release.
biglittleps
Member
Its not final, they wanted clubs to be challenging and tight so they changed to 6. It may change if the feedback from gamers want to according to developer after launch. This game is meant to evolve as needed by the gamers and it being supported with content every month for the next 6 months after launch and will continue to do so.
I believe they compared clubs to CoD in which you have a clan of friends like TD.
One gets the feeling that many (not all of course) of the negative posts in Driveclub threads aren't really about that game, but are more like passive-aggressive salvos in teh console warz. So it's kind of funny when someone who appears to be concern trolling gets called out on it.
The guy likes Forza Horizon. That's great -- it's a different game than DC and there's no reason why a person shouldn't prefer it. No need to clutter up these threads with that stuff though.
travisbickle
Member
Clubs are like a team, and as a team you work together and gain benefits from the others. If someone in your team unlocks something, you have access to it as long as your part of the club.
Leaderboards can be divided into people on your friends list, and I think challenges can be sent to anyone.
People really need to stop automatically comparing this to other games.
mangochutney
Member
1,000 people is not social in my opinion, you can't be socialable with that amount of people, it loses its socialness at that point, it could just as well be 10,000, 500,000 or 250,000,000 at that point.
But really it comes down to what the club is for. In DRIVECLUB you're a team as much as you're a group of friends in a club. As you earn points and get unlocks it all goes into your team/club - you're driving together as the trailer strapline says.
Therefore, if you have 1,000 people in your club you'll have unlocked everything on day one whilst Tom, Dick and Harry in their club of 3 will spend the next 3 months trying.
There are complete in X time and do lap time of X, but don't know about the others.
Glorified G
Member
I seriously confused reading the initial post about not getting the "excitement" that this game had compared to PGR and 'cat and mouse' racing when ironically DC aims to offer more challenges during a race in order to differentiate the whole 'finishing first' part of that PGR (outside of kudos) aims at. Then...
so Driveclub looks sterile...
but this pic
really says something to you..
this post happened. And coincidentally, the poster left right after this. Instead trying to justify your console purchase through 'concern posting' some of you really should just sell your consoles instead and buy it at a later date. If you don't think it was worth it these kinds of posts won't help.
Allez Phill
Banned
This is like kicking a wasp nest on accident and trying to reason with them while they sting you. I went to bed so, no one silenced me. I'm no concern troll, I'm simply asking what the game has to offer, going through my post history isn't going to offer any insight to what I meant. That FH comment has nothing to do with any thing said here. One small mistake and all of this? I guess I won't even bother coming in here anymore even if there is interest in the game for me in the future.