Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
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DeeJ on 404Architect.
Trolled like how you described the removal of majors in moon missions as a "difficulty reduction"?
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
That doesn't really make sense though. It's not like the game is missing an ending, or a couple chapters something. It's pretty much missing an entire plot altogether. There's a dozen or so little bits of unrelated story arcs that are so far from complete they don't even serve as teasers of something to come, told through a handful of characters that are near completely devoid of any characterization. I'm not sure how any amount of DLC could somehow come close to connecting the sparse fragments of a story that's there into an actual cohesive plot. They'll fill in a couple blanks with a few bits of repurposed cut content, sure, but there's no way in hell the game was purposely cut apart just to sell DLC.
No need for a lawyer. What you said sounds about right. Bungie delayed the game and didn't anticipate key members leaving during the delay so they shit the bed and cut content and released what they had. Now what they can salvage will be in the expansion passes.
MORTALIS
Member
Egos had to play a significant part in this. Bungie has never been regarded as a well oiled machine but Activision has had frankenstudios churning out COD for well over a decade now albeit with lukewarm critical but phenomenal monetary success.
Bungie was an artisan shop with dreams of world domination. Now, steeped in self loathing for selling its soul to MS, compounded ten fold now with this AV contract.
Wipe your tears with hundid dolla bills Bungie, but take a good look at yourselves. Bigger, fatter and a shell of the studio you once were. Best wishes to Joe.
The beta was a great indicator for the actual game. anyone who paid attention, could have known what to expect in the full game ...
oh i loved the beta. I just didn't expect the beta to literally be a 4th of the game and an exact template for the other 3/4ths.
Joe, Marty, and others leaving or getting fired for sure leads to ego's clashing and creative differences over at Bungie.
Trojan
Member
I remember when Bungie said the beta was about "10%" of the whole game. Turns out that was a little conservative, as the beta was probably closer to 20-25%of the whole game like you mentioned. Disappointing!
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Someone needs to crack open the game files and see if they can find any content like voice work that doesn't appear in the game, or more locations, cutscenes etc.
This is getting very interesting! If what 404 has said is true then everything fits into place perfectly.
If it a load of crap, then it's even more depressing realising Bungie thought it was OK to deliver the mess of a story we got, among other things!
This is getting very interesting! If what 404 has said is true then everything fits into place perfectly.
If it a load of crap, then it's even more depressing realising Bungie thought it was OK to deliver the mess of a story we got, among other things!
Pop
Member
Bungie already replied and said we're being trolled by 404. There was never a reason to believe that guy anyway.
MORTALIS
Member
Jamie Griesemer bailed to Sony and worked on infamous ss. I think he's since moved on though. He was a lead on Halo CE and 2.
http://bungie.wikia.com/wiki/Jaime_Griesemer
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Exactly. For 404 to be telling the truth is actually better for them in my eyes.
I would disagree with you here Todd. Any MMO that enters the market now enters the market for long term viability. With the massive costs associated with designing and releasing a brand new MMO from ground up, developers need a long term plan to turn the title profitable. In Square Enix's case, it made complete sense to redesign the title, spend an extra year or so baking it, before releasing again. Any extra costs associating with a year in development pails in comparison to three already spent and failed with. At this point, being waste deep, you might as keep wading. Thankfully in their case the gamble paid off, and we have what we have now.
This is a little different in Bungies, in that development costs have all but been made back already. We are now at square one in terms of game development is concerned. I believe the best thing to be done is reboot the story, which with the limited story in game their is amazingly enough to actually do this, and move back to drawing board. This all sounds worse than it is though - the gameplay is tight, with only slight adjustments needed to variety and mechanics to really get a 10/10 from the crowd. Storywise, a reboot is needed. Even use the upcoming DLC to do this, using the Vex.
It will be incredibly hard to Bungie to pull this off. We keep using FFXIV, as it is the closest comparison we have to this scale, but it will be a lot harder than they experienced. They had the whole experience needing rebooting - we just need the story. Possibly, remove all missions as is now, and head back to their initial plan? Disregard whatever we have done now as a "dream" as such, maybe a Matrix like effect from post death awakening, and then move us into the real world with the story originally intended. I for one am extremely interested how this story can be pulled back from the brink!
Edit - I completely missed your point here. Both are the same - Bungie now need to save face to have any hope of future viability. With the game the way it is now, no gamer will move onto the second one especially if they are in need of a proper story. Bungie need to save face and reboot the story, giving us a reason to move onto the next title when it arrives.
Lawyer in training here
The penalties are removed if they ship subsequent releases( which includes DLC) on time. The DLCs was originally scheduled for Fall 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020.
However, I think its very likely the contract has been superseded by a new agreement.
How are people making this leap from "404 isn't actually an insider" to "Bungie intentionally did things poorly"?
If 404 is full of shit, that doesn't mean that everything he said is totally off the mark, or that Bungie didn't run into troubles that aren't "we intentionally made our story suck." Actually, it doesn't really imply anything.
...At any rate, it's clear that they had some significant development troubles around story implementation.
Wait, we did?
Did I totally miss this?
Also this thread really needs just some sort of proof. I'm having a hard time making these major leaps. Yeah the story was terrible, but bungie has definitely been hit or miss with story telling since EVER.
lazorexplosion
Member
Thing is, I doubt it was originally a good story, or they would have stuck with it.
I'd bet it was a clunky exposition-laden impenetrable snore-fest of lore with little interest in terms of actual character. Then they panicked and try to cut down the boring cutscenes and shift the lore to an optional setting, and ended up with nothing but the bones of a story.
I'd bet it was a clunky exposition-laden impenetrable snore-fest of lore with little interest in terms of actual character. Then they panicked and try to cut down the boring cutscenes and shift the lore to an optional setting, and ended up with nothing but the bones of a story.
GillianSeed79
Member
To be honest, I probably won't unless it's a miracle and they manage to actually tell a coherent story in the sequel. You know, something that resembles a plot. I mean, to be honest, I was never really a huge fan of the stories in the Halo games, but at least you knew what was going on and the MP was superb. I could almost overlook the terrible story if the MP or PVP was some new genre redefining thing, but it isn't. The co-op seems like a poor man's/boring Borderlands and the PVP seems like a weird mix between CoD and like Halo 4, but at 30fps and the worst parts of both. Christ PVP, is just boring. And, you know what? As I get older, it's kind of a relief. It's one less $60 purchase I have to worry about. There are plenty of other games and franchises with memorable stories I can spend my money on.
It doesn't even ape CoD well. People bought CoD because CoD4 pretty much redefined MP shooters for better or worse on consoles. Destiny didn't really do anything to shake things up.
Yup. Once you kill the black things the Speaker says the traveler has begun to heal again.
That's not necessarily the same thing as "awakening" it.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Even if the original story was bad, it can't be worse than cutting it out completely and leaving the barebones for us.
I don't understand the prevalence of this train of thought. 404A being a troll wouldn't have any actual implications. It would simply mean the air of authority he speaks with is entirely fake. Chances are there were bumps in Destiny's development cycle, either way, but the version of events detailed in that AMA is probably off in terms of the events it emphasizes, in the way it presents particular issues, in the details that are omitted, and so on.
Seriously, a plausible alternative doesn't only come into existence when someone on Reddit writes it up.
it's basically the same thing. i'm pretty sure it's going to play a bigger part in the next game and the only reason they said it was healing was to give a reason to not do anything with it.
This could have been in the middle of the story and made to be the ending after content was cut out. Shit seemed way to easy to me for an ending.
We don't have a clear picture of how the Traveler works, or what "awakening" it would even mean. And "begun to heal" doesn't exactly imply that it's suddenly doing anything new.
This is Destiny we're talking about, it hardly has punchy events with immediately wide-reaching impact. And the game itself doesn't even present it like an instant massive change to how the Traveler behaves; the end cutscene basically just says "we're becoming more powerful, go to kill some shit in strike missions."
lazorexplosion
Member
I disagree, I've seen many games where the story is horrible but the game doesn't have the self awareness to just shut up and let you get back to the much more enjoyable action. MGS4 anyone?
and that's a problem lol
The fact that absolutely nothing in the game has any impact on the game itself just plan sucks. I want the next game to actually do something with this cool world they are creating. There is some good shit here, especially lore wise in the grimoire cards, but goddamn put some of that shit in the game. The next game better give a reason to care about the world cause if it doesn't I don't see a reason to go back to it.
MGS4 was my first MG game and i found the story enjoyable. Confusing as hell though.
I was going to just copy paste what I wrote in the Bungie thread but since it got deleted I'll just make a tldrw version.
1) The cut-scene with Crow isn't in the game at all and even if it was cut out there's no logical place where it could be except for the supposed 2013 story where he was part of a splinter group.
2) Factions and the Vanguard people are literally just vendors. No explanation about who they are and no other interaction other than to trade in marks for equipment.
3) Back in August 2013 Bungie wanted this franchise to go up against Star Wars and TLotR. If the rumors are to be believed this is around 1-4 months before they scrapped the story. Oddly enough, the PR for this game for this year was mostly end-game oriented and how it isn't a MMO and as far as I recall the story was never mentioned again.
4) I REALLY doubt the best mission Bungie could make is "Press square to Dinklebot."
5) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2983582/ Oh hai Crow.
Nothing concrete but you look at all of it and things just don't add up.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
We'll see, Destiny had the privilege of not a lot of stellar games being out quite yet. By the time Destiny 2 is out MS will have a new Halo out, possibly a new Gears. Sony a KZ sequel maybe, Guerrilla's new IP, some other stuff Im sure. Not to mention countless 3rd party FPS games. Fuck, Borderlands 3 maybe even. It didn't have much competition this roundabout, next time I dont see that being the case.
Lauren Cohen was the exo stranger? That's cool.
Wow all that talent for DLC huh?
Sodding_Gamer
Member
The much more enjoyable action of pressing square/X and defending dinklebot over and over again? I'd rather have a cutscene to be honest lol.
ArkkAngel007
Member
I kind of enjoyed MGS4's story. Not the length of the cutscenes obviously, but still found it intriguing as a newcomer to the MGS titles.
But I think the point made is that being barebones isn't the problem. It's that it's pretty clear we're supposed to care and be engaged when there is next to nothing being offered.
Imagine MGS4 not knowing any of the situation regarding the PMCs, or that was Raiden ninja'ing around, or Ocelot's motivations. Just dropping you place to place, but also making sure the mission designs are as bland and copy-paste as possible with no attempts to mask it. And that you'll get a tease of knowledge in some files, but still be as obtuse as possible about it to hide the mess (rather than the mess hiding all the good stuff)
I'll take what, with hindsight, Kojima provided with MGS4 over a Destiny situation in its place.
I've gone from probably being rather meh about Destiny to really enjoying it, and even loving quite often. But the story to me still hurts it tremendously because the game doesn't have the self awareness about how little it offers and kind of severely disconnects me since what I'm supposed to care about or know in the game just isn't there despite the game continuously going on about how there supposedly is.
Destiny is not a mess of a story. It is the absence of a story. They could go anywhere in the next game since there is so little to worry about contradicting. I am surprised that well known TV actors were used when any basement rate SAG member would have gotten the job done.
lazorexplosion
Member
Yeah, they fucked up for sure. It's bland/forgettable/repetitive on too many levels. If it was just one element that under-delivered people would be a lot more forgiving, but when it's several the whole tone of the game is blah.
Enh, 404 probably is just throwing out a believable story from his/her ass. That said, they're virtually just as trustworthy as Bungie at this point. Essentially everything Bungie said leading up to the release of Destiny turned out to be complete shit so they're not so reliable these days either.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
While the story was a putrid mess, the woeful and misbegotten dialogue was something else entirely.
Did these rumored 'cuts' also magically replace supposedly quality / passable lines with the crap that currently passes for dialogue and exposition in Destiny? Or were all the lines recorded or redone after all the cuts?
Did these rumored 'cuts' also magically replace supposedly quality / passable lines with the crap that currently passes for dialogue and exposition in Destiny? Or were all the lines recorded or redone after all the cuts?
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Don't quote me but I think 404 said they brought actors back in to redo some lines.
The dialogue is bad I agree but if they hadn't gutted the story, whilst it still would have been bad, at least we would know what happened.
In all honesty they could literally segway into the original story just by having the Queen's Brother get hit in the head really hard and remembers he's really part of a splinter group and he was brainwashed by the Queen, or something.
DeeJ on 404Architect.
While I don't disagree that the guy on reddit probably isn't legit? Something is totally fucked with Destiny's story, and I'm willing to bet that this isn't what Bungie wanted to put out.
There is a reason Destiny is this way. Though this may not be the reason.
Anything from this contract though can only be taken into account in that it was true back in 2010. Everything could have changed between then and now though, and we would only know if there was a leak of an updated contract.
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Either way, it's interesting to know that Bungie/Acti's original focus was on the Xbox 360/One and the PS3 was a near afterthought. With all the focus on the PS4 now, and Destiny being a near "PS4" game it seems weird to think of it starting on the Xbox side. Also the fact that they detailed the platforms for Destiny 2, including PC.
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Oh and apparently Bungie is working on, (or at least was working on back in 2010), a Marathon game.