freeofgreed
Member
Because the context doesn't make it ok.
Cosplayer being labeled Racist for her blackface Michonne From The Walking Dead'
- Thread starter clem84
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Because the context doesn't make it ok.
Or perhaps she's sticking to her guns because she believes it isn't offensive? I believe the same.
To the people saying she is wrong and have been mocking people defending her, I want to ask a question, and please answer it honestly. Have you guys taken a single post here defending her seriously? Have you actually thought about what the defense is saying fully, or has it all just been a big joke to you from the start? I feel like the latter is true, to be honest.
Not everyone is offended by the same things. This doesn't seem like something I should have to type, but given the commonness of these threads, I guess it is.
You can't argue someone into being offended and you can't argue someone out of being offended. I'm not sure why so many of you try.
Try expressing your opinions as opinions, rather than facts, because that's what they are -- your opinions. They're rooted in your life experience and who you are, and they aren't going to perfectly match anyone else's opinions.
So, rather than try to win the battle of black face or not, consider that some people are going to be offended by things that don't offend you. And you are just as likely to be offended by things that others don't find offensive.
Try addressing people as people, rather than trying to score points in a pointless battle. And try to remain civil as you do so.
You can't argue someone into being offended and you can't argue someone out of being offended. I'm not sure why so many of you try.
Try expressing your opinions as opinions, rather than facts, because that's what they are -- your opinions. They're rooted in your life experience and who you are, and they aren't going to perfectly match anyone else's opinions.
So, rather than try to win the battle of black face or not, consider that some people are going to be offended by things that don't offend you. And you are just as likely to be offended by things that others don't find offensive.
Try addressing people as people, rather than trying to score points in a pointless battle. And try to remain civil as you do so.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
What do you gain from this being waved off
Would you care? The only reason she does is because of the backlash obviously.
Do you not think history tied to something doesn't matter, if the intent isn't malicious? Does good intent, make it okay to do something despite that something having a history tied to it, and being very hurtful and offensive to people?
I'm trying to see both sides here. At least for me, initially I thought her intent was fine. She didn't seem racist at all to me. But I also thought what she was doing was very insensitive. And then after seeing her quote, it doesn't seem like she would listen to those telling her they are being hurt. I dunno. That seems kind of messed up. I could understand if you still don't agree with others that it's offensive. But you really wouldn't take into consideration what other people are telling you? (Especially if it really hurts them)?
But context makes it bad?
frankie_baby
Member
Not the race the skin colour, skin colour and race are not the same thing
in the very same post you just quoted.
Exr
Member
If the girl did the exact same getup without the black face paint, do you think people would laud her costumes accuracy or would they also say "pretty good even though she's white"? I agree that skin color is not essential towards capturing key aspects of a character at all, but the inclusion of that aspect, so long as it doesn't create a caricature of a racial stereotype, seems fine to me. The girl in the OP didn't do this as a malicious thing. I understand that simply not having malicious intent isn't enough to absolve her of any blame with regards to insensitivity, but to call it racist is a bit much.
With regards to skin tone, should that be ignored when people are cosplaying in general? I don't cosplay and I'm not involved with the cosplay world at all, so I'm coming at this from a point of ignorance. Understandably people can dress as blue elf chicks from WoW, but do you feel that human skin tone alterations (white to black, black to white, asian to indian, etc) are unnecessary?
You don't get to choose what's offensive to others breh, lol
I understand that sentiment but I just don't understand it in the context of cosplay. Cosplay is about making yourself appear like someone or something else. She has the dreads, the outfit, and she went with some make up. The nose was a bit over done, but she said this was a practice run so perhaps the final product will adjust that. I guess I just feel differently.
As if there wasn't already a legitimate reason to take issue with her, she says this.
There's been plenty of black people in this very thread that has stated that it isn't. We also don't get to decide what a race should find offensive. People have attacked two worlds for not being offended!
freeofgreed
Member
Ideally I would love for that to be the case where people didn't see each others race, however in reality this isn't the case, and saying "I don't see race" imo is more hurtful to POC then it is helpful because when they encounter actually racism it'll go undealt with under the guise of "we don't see race, your just being overly sensitive".
I agree with this. My argument has never been "Nobody should find this offensive". I feel that what she did can be reasonably argued as not offensive, but others are acting as if any argument that says it's not offensive is some silly attempt of an idiot trying to be logical or something.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Yes, but if people can't up with evidence to why it's offensive people are allowed to discount your opinion on the subject.
its fine to not be offended yourself. It's insensitive to ignore the fact that this does offend a group of people for legitimate reasons and it's not right.
I think it was more for horrible analogies and circular arguments.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'm done
Enjoy your blackface guilt-free and without consequences, it's all in good fun
Happy Zwarte Piet in advance too
Enjoy your blackface guilt-free and without consequences, it's all in good fun
Happy Zwarte Piet in advance too
Please defend these attacks to my argument. My examples are not horrible and my logic isn't circular. If it is, it should be easy to show how it is.
pants
Member
This is by far the best post in this thread and something I wish more people would internalize.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Those girls that cosplay as Orion Slave Girls should worry.
DY_nasty has been doing that for the past 30 minutes. Do you have him on ignore?
Sup reddit.
And there's plenty of black people who do say it is offensive.
I'm black and I find this offensive.
People of all races are not a hivemind but when someone tells you something offends them, you don't lecture them about why they shouldn't be. You don't have that right.
You should respect their opinion.
Interceptor
Banned
So you are only allowed to cosplay people from your own ethnicity? Poor inuits.
All I've heard people say is "X person did it". Stop passing the buck. You said my examples are bad and my logical. So I'm asking you to explain yourself.
This is bullshit.
She's cosplaying and the entire point of that is to look exactly like the character you're cosplaying as. I think she did a damn good job on her costume and there's absolutely nothing racist about it whatsoever.
Why aren't people offended as people who cosplay as those blue creatures from Avatar?! Totally racist because blue skin and stuff.
She's cosplaying and the entire point of that is to look exactly like the character you're cosplaying as. I think she did a damn good job on her costume and there's absolutely nothing racist about it whatsoever.
Why aren't people offended as people who cosplay as those blue creatures from Avatar?! Totally racist because blue skin and stuff.
freeofgreed
Member
They don't speak for everyone. Think of it like this. In case A, some people get offended and in case B, no one gets offended. What's wrong with going for case B? Are we really loosing something of significance by telling this woman not to paint her face black? Im pretty sure everyone in this thread would never paint thier face black (
hopefully) so why are we fighting for the right to do so when it only cause harm and does absolutely no good?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Why does she have to paint her skin
Saying you are offended doesn't entitle you to respect of it. It's not an argument stopper. Somebody can argue why they think your offense is misplaced.
Intent isn't magic. If you did something racist, it is racist apart from your intent. If you didn't mean to do something racist, then the right thing to do is say, "Oh. Sorry. I didn't know that and won't do it again," rather than, "It's not racist, because I didn't mean for it to be racist!" It's obviously worse to do something racist intentionally, rather than mistakenly, but the intent doesn't change what it is.
And this obviously goes for other things - not just racist things. It's still homophobic to call someone a faggot, even if your intent in saying that was to call that person "dumb."
Uh huh.
I've got a feeling you don't read these topics very often and aren't very familiar with the posters.
... Though I am white. Guilty
……forgetit
Member
No one said that for the billionth time. Just don't darken your skin.
freeofgreed
Member
He already told you where to find the answer, how about you stop being lazy and go read it. It's not his job to do your research for you.
Lord_Balkan
Member
I think this can help a lot of people here:
To be clear, I personally don't think what she did was racist. That is because she hasn't shown she believes that one race is superior to the other. Did she do something insensitive / offensive? Debate-ably, as seen in this thread. I guess the one distinction is, being offended by it does not automatically make it racist.
Racism said:
To be clear, I personally don't think what she did was racist. That is because she hasn't shown she believes that one race is superior to the other. Did she do something insensitive / offensive? Debate-ably, as seen in this thread. I guess the one distinction is, being offended by it does not automatically make it racist.
So clearly the girl in the op
CadetMahoney
Member
Man, this thread had a lot of casualties. Blackface is racist and insensitive for sure, so I can see how this crosses the line too.
It wasn't good enough when I, 3 other members, and an admin did it over the past 3 pages.
By all means, keep believing that everyone is wrong but you and that you've done nothing but argue your points perfectly.
Oh, and +1 to this.
Nobody has once said why to me. Stop passing the buck around. Nobody can explain how my logic is circular because it isn't. Either show me how it is or stop trying to claim somebody did already when they didn't. It's lazy to stack my argument and pretend somebody else explained why.
Is blackface not enough evidence? Yeah, there's certain degrees to it, before you try to justify it as not being "thaaaaaaat bad" but is it that insane to think people get offended by others wearing their race as a costume, despite intent, and especially looking at the history associated with such an act?
In an ideal world, sure it's best no one gets offended. We don't live in such a world. People get offended by seemingly (in my opinion) absolutely inane things.
literally no one said this
Corronchilejano
Member
I haven't seen a single argument coming from you other than saying this is "progressive blackface" and that's it.
There was a *lot* of controversy at first.On the subject; Did people/anyone find this racist in Tropic Thunder? Never heard any controversy or blackface comments regarding it.
Are you serious? You can't see why this is offensive?
Non white races have always been subjected to ignorant racist "cosplay". This is no different than people who tape their eyes slanted and say they are Asian, or put on feather headdress and clap their hands over their months to be Native American, etc.
The nose and skin are very telling for why this is racist. Come the fuck on.
freeofgreed
Member
I didn't know the blue people from Avatar actually existed and have had a long history of discrimination on this planet. Totally comparable...
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