Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 10-16 | Frauds Among Us

It's not running away that incurs the penalty, that's a bit of a misconception. It's inactivity that incurs the penalty. The game promotes active play - turtling is punished, zoning/runaway isn't.


Off the top, enom is probably the closest I can think of to Sim, but he really benefits from going in on hard knockdown
 
Sayad said:
Axel is the closest you'd get to a Sim in Xrd.
Edit: Or not!
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eeehhh I can see why you say him because he does have inputs like Dhaslim but relies too much on corner pressure to get anything going and certain characters he cannot poke out.

MiniBossBattle said:
So its more of a morrigan type lame that should be looked at? I just don't want people close to me.
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Venom. set up balls, shoot em, poke out people who try to jump over them. And since Baiken is not in the game, you're good.
 
Kimosabae said:
It's not running away that incurs the penalty, that's a bit of a misconception. It's inactivity that incurs the penalty. The game promotes active play - turtling is punished, zoning/runaway isn't.


Off the top, enom is probably the closest I can think of to Sim, but he really benefits from going in on hard knockdown
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Does P4A use different negative penalty rules, then? I got negative penalty for actively zoning with Elizabeth.
 
Professor Beef said:
He never did. The only FGC celebs who posted here were

Clockwork (who still posts, to his credit)
James Chen (posted for a day then scrammed)
Ultradavid (who is busy with IRL shit, I assume, to continue to post regularly)
Valle (only to advertise)
Jebaily (advertise)
Gootecks (?)
Wizard (sluts)
Watts (through his puppet account)

NerdJosh, Kuma, and Art I didn't add because they were on GAF before the FGC blew up.
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Haunts, Reno, and Markman too!
 
Am doubting there's an answer, but any word on whether or not the Japanese Xrd will have English text?
 
Kimosabae said:
The execution of Eddie/Zato's combos and strings are similar in principle to button-switching to hold a button charge, you just have to rejigger your conception of what you're executing.

I'll let someone more knowledgable about the character go into more detail.
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Isnt it that you will get a penalty for either being inactive or for moving back too much without enough forward movement? Only difference is that the threshold to getting the penalty is different depending on who you play, more lax for zoner types and more restrictive for heavy rushdown/mixup types
 
Karsticles said:
If you're referring to holding the button to charge, I used Vergil on point for quite a while and learned to always keep his charge going regardless of what I was doing. Doesn't Zato require inputs and releases, though? For example, hold A, qcf, release A? It's been ages since I played GG.
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Yeah, Zato's Eddie basically works on negative edging any button. So suppose Eddie is out and you're trying to do Slash into Hard Slash with Zato. If you don't want Eddie to be doing an attack during this, you have to press and hold Slash and Hard Slash when you input them. Releasing any button will make Eddie do the corresponding move. There aren't that many moves that are like your example for him besides maybe 2 in Xrd.

I wouldn't say he's extremely complex. You just need to put in the time to learn how to not negative edge at the wrong spots and how to manipulate the shadow when it's out. The latter should be much easier in Xrd due to faster shadow speed and the addition of puddles. Also it's important to learn how to protect Eddie during the match. You do not want to to get killed because of the wait.

You could always practice Eddie in an older GG in the mean time if you want, but just remember that Eddie's moves aren't on the same button in Xrd since they altered a few things (drill bomb on ]D[ now, etc)
 
Karsticles said:
Does P4A use different negative penalty rules, then? I got negative penalty for actively zoning with Elizabeth.
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To get negative penalty with Elizabeth you'd have to be
1) firing no lasers
2) never hitting 5C or its followups
3) Never hitting 5B ever (I honestly can't believe this one)
4) never using Megido fire
5) backdashing constantly, even though Liz's backdash is shit.

So I assume you were playing Elizabeth very poorly and not indicative of even the intermediate level of play.
 
Somebody said that Ogawa isn't interested in international tournaments because he only wants to play good matches, and he thinks there won't be good competition elsewhere. Supposedly.

Also BBCP netplay is still fucking garbage.
 
AnneIFrank said:
Somebody said that Ogawa isn't interested in international tournaments because he only wants to play good matches, and he thinks there won't be good competition elsewhere. Supposedly.

Also BBCP netplay is still fucking garbage.
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Do you not like netplay Mu's that don't oki properly and just dash in 50/50 overhead or throw? :P

I don't...

Edit: Honestly, I find it funny how some do that. Sometimes I would not tech to see how far they carry my character with their dash and just do a natural get up.
 
Rhapsody said:
Do you not like netplay Mu's that don't oki properly and just dash in 50/50 overhead or throw? :P

I don't...
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I don't like playing an execution and reaction heavy game on netplay with netcode that has really heavy input delay. The 2 characters I like to play (Tao and Rachel) do not make this any better.
 
AnneIFrank said:
I don't like playing an execution and reaction heavy game on netplay with netcode that has really heavy input delay. The 2 characters I like to play (Tao and Rachel) do not make this any better.
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I know that feel :(

But yeah, especially in a game like BB, if input delay screws you up when your character was in control, so much momentum is lost. Primarily why I use Rachel the least when I netplay with people, even if she is my main. It's just not fun and instead frustrating.

Tao I would even dare try on the average connection.
 
I can't believe I missed a BB netcode discussion. It's pretty good aside from netcode bar icons now showing at all too often. It's my number one gripe with the online.

I'm amazed someone would prefer SFIV's netcode, but I guess there is always an exception.
 
MiniBossBattle said:
Anyone that plays like Sim or do I have to embrace the rushdown in Xrd?
Is playing lame possible?
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A surprising number of the characters can play defensively. Axel and Venom were mentioned, but there's others too. Ramlethal pretty much makes the whole screen a hitbox and tries to keep you away if the spot is bad, good => corner carry and opponent gets a ticket to Corner Pressure Hell.

If this is lame enough for you, Faust and Ky may be splendid choices too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdVlkCBpDFE
 
Rhapsody said:
Yeah, Zato's Eddie basically works on negative edging any button. So suppose Eddie is out and you're trying to do Slash into Hard Slash with Zato. If you don't want Eddie to be doing an attack during this, you have to press and hold Slash and Hard Slash when you input them. Releasing any button will make Eddie do the corresponding move. There aren't that many moves that are like your example for him besides maybe 2 in Xrd.

I wouldn't say he's extremely complex. You just need to put in the time to learn how to not negative edge at the wrong spots and how to manipulate the shadow when it's out. The latter should be much easier in Xrd due to faster shadow speed and the addition of puddles. Also it's important to learn how to protect Eddie during the match. You do not want to to get killed because of the wait.

You could always practice Eddie in an older GG in the mean time if you want, but just remember that Eddie's moves aren't on the same button in Xrd since they altered a few things (drill bomb on ]D[ now, etc)
Click to expand...
I probably will wait until its release, or until I can get my hands on a PS4 demo for it. I am going to be enjoying Smash for the next month.

What are puddles?

Thanks for the explanation - that sounds very manageable.

Nyoro SF said:
To get negative penalty with Elizabeth you'd have to be
1) firing no lasers
2) never hitting 5C or its followups
3) Never hitting 5B ever (I honestly can't believe this one)
4) never using Megido fire
5) backdashing constantly, even though Liz's backdash is shit.

So I assume you were playing Elizabeth very poorly and not indicative of even the intermediate level of play.
Click to expand...
I was jumping back and using her cards for spacing, which usually counterhit an air dash attempt. I was very active and effective, which is why it felt so wrong getting penalized.
 
AnneIFrank said:
Somebody said that Ogawa isn't interested in international tournaments because he only wants to play good matches, and he thinks there won't be good competition elsewhere. Supposedly.

Also BBCP netplay is still fucking garbage.
Click to expand...


I don't see why this was controversial...ogawa was untouchable in jp and the American gg scene was losing to like any jp player that came over for years. Maybe it will change in xrd tho I guess.
 
Onemic said:
Isnt it that you will get a penalty for either being inactive or for moving back too much without enough forward movement? Only difference is that the threshold to getting the penalty is different depending on who you play, more lax for zoner types and more restrictive for heavy rushdown/mixup types
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the bolded, but I do know that if you're pressing buttons you're essentially spared from the penalty. Simply running/flying away or just plain blocking (as opposed to IB) can incur the penalty. Not moving forward provides the less direct penalty of your character not gaining Tension.

petghost said:
Maybe it will change in xrd tho I guess.
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I doubt it. The series has been dormant here for so long and we've always been far behind on releases. Maybe if Xrd actually gains traction in the West, we can revisit this discussion about a year from now. I don't blame Ogawa, really.
 
Well considering the apparent situation regarding everyone dodging Ogawa, he might have to consider overseas competition that would love the chance to play him.
 
Karsticles said:
I probably will wait until its release, or until I can get my hands on a PS4 demo for it. I am going to be enjoying Smash for the next month.

What are puddles?
Click to expand...

Puddle in Accent Core context is a move the AC shadow can do. It melts into a large, inky puddle that basically acts as a mine. If an opponent falls into it they're stunned for a really long time. Vanilla AC puddle was a low to boot, so hello braindead unblockables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ksxdigI8M

(AC Eddie was fair Kappa)

Puddle in Xrd context means the residue that Zato's drill move leaves behind. It's a glowing orange residue. Significant because in Xrd you can summon shadow so it appears from the residue instead of next to Zato's feet. You can see Ogawa do stuff like pressure string => drill => summon~Mawaru (buzzsaw) or Nobiru (AA bite).

Zato (and in Xrd the shadow as well) can also melt into a puddle and move around safe from stuff. The move is called Break the Law and Break the Law YRC is hilariously strong in Xrd.
 
Karsticles said:
I probably will wait until its release, or until I can get my hands on a PS4 demo for it. I am going to be enjoying Smash for the next month.

What are puddles?

Thanks for the explanation - that sounds very manageable.
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Generally when you summon Eddie, it's doing 236P/K/S/HS. Eddie will generally be right in front of you during this.

However when you do moves like 22S/HS (his drill move), it leaves a puddle. Now you can summon Eddie at that spot instead of right in front of you with 214HS. So imagine zoning with 22HS drill from afar and it lands, now you can just summon Eddie there for an oki as you start closing in.

Edit: Beaten like Ogawa's opponents
 
QisTopTier said:
Karst's love of big ol witch titties wants to transcend games xD
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*nods*

Why do you think I want Nine?

Though, even though that crappy anime game that just came out has Selvaria, I am not purchasing it. :-P

Rhapsody said:
Generally when you summon Eddie, it's doing 236P/K/S/HS. Eddie will generally be right in front of you during this.

However when you do moves like 22S/HS (his drill move), it leaves a puddle. Now you can summon Eddie at that spot instead of right in front of you with 214HS. So imagine zoning with 22HS drill from afar and it lands, now you can just summon Eddie there for an oki as you start closing in.

Edit: Beaten like Ogawa's opponents
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Ah, that makes sense.
 
Karsticles said:
I wish ASW would share their technology with VanillaWare. VanillaWare can let ASW add the Sorceress to GG Xrd as a trade.
>.>
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I would do many, many bad things for a Vanillaware-based fighter. And I vote for Velvet from Odin's Sphere as a GG DLC character. Rajyaki would be good, too, especially if they could figure out a way to incorporate her form change.
 
Wasn't there a chart for +R that showed the difficulty playing the character compared to the effectiveness of the character? I remember being surprised venom wasn't higher in difficulty of usage.


I'm guessing that might still have some relevance?
 
Rhapsody said:
You could always practice Eddie in an older GG in the mean time if you want, but just remember that Eddie's moves aren't on the same button in Xrd since they altered a few things (drill bomb on ]D[ now, etc)
Click to expand...


#Reload Eddie has the same shadow as Xrd Zato and is pretty much a carbon copy of him otherwise too. You can just crib stuff Ogawa does in Xrd and try it in #R, chances are it will just work.

atomic moth said:
Wasn't there a chart for +R that showed the difficulty playing the character compared to the effectiveness of the character? I remember being surprised venom wasn't higher in difficulty of usage.


I'm guessing that might still have some relevance?
Click to expand...

Many Xrd characters are very different from their Accent Core incarnations (Xrd used #Reload as a base to develop from). Zato, Slayer, Ky, I think Sol and Venom are among those too. So it may or may not be especially relevant.

Also I-No used to be hard as fuck but her execution requirements have dropped a lot in Xrd.
 
Coffeeling said:
#Reload Eddie has the same shadow as Xrd Zato and is pretty much a carbon copy of him otherwise too. You can just crib stuff Ogawa does in Xrd and try it in #R, chances are it will just work.
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Yeah, I know he has the same shadow attacks. Just letting him know that some of the shadow inputs aren't the same. Nobiru is on ]S[ , drill is on ]D[ , etc. I know some people have problems with muscle memory as it is, so it was just a little warning.
 
Karsticles said:
I wish ASW would share their technology with VanillaWare. VanillaWare can let ASW add the Sorceress to GG Xrd as a trade.
>.>
Click to expand...
They already shared enough of their tech to the point where you only need capable 3D(and 2D) artists to replicate it. I expect to see more games doing what ASW did with GG.
 
Coffeeling said:
#Reload Eddie has the same shadow as Xrd Zato and is pretty much a carbon copy of him otherwise too. You can just crib stuff Ogawa does in Xrd and try it in #R, chances are it will just work.



Many Xrd characters are very different from their Accent Core incarnations (Xrd used #Reload as a base to develop from). Zato, Slayer, Ky, I think Sol and Venom are among those too. So it may or may not be especially relevant.

Also I-No used to be hard as fuck but her execution requirements have dropped a lot in Xrd.
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if I-No's requirements dropped a lot in xrd, i think I'm gonna play her. Always wanted to play her in +r but was like I'm too bad to even try
 
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