Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue

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bonercop

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i wonder how extreme a cop's methods and how clear the evidence has to be before a majority of whites in america would support criminal charges against a cop killing a black person. does it take a videotaped lynching perhaps?

like, really, I'm serious. I wonder how ridiculous a situation it needs to be to see white americans finally stop defending a cop and calling for their heads.
 
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jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
Ezenzer said:
If someone sets half of my house on fire I am not going to protest the injustice of it all by angrily getting out some gasoline and lighting the other half ablaze. Addressing a problem by actively making it worse is not a solution. As upset as I am by police corruption and inequality in America in general, I'm a touch more frustrated when black people behave in ways that perpetuate the cycle while completely neglecting the actual systems in place that could affect a change.

It's self defeating.
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It's a natural human reaction; people can't be robots all the time.

And who's fault is it really in believing stereotypes in the first place?
 
L

LordAzrael

Banned
backslashbunny said:
Uh, what? What are you insinuating with this?

Surely you aren't actually trying to argue that it's okay when people riot over sports, and don't get condemnation, but when black people do, that's the only time it gets criticized.
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Yeah he was. Awesome the stuff labor gets away with isn't it.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
With all the leaks it's clear he's going to be let go.

I just hope the protesters do not hurt any innocents or destroy the businesses of innocent people. I want them to protest hard and loud and passionately, but I hope they can avoid that.

Just like I hope the police can avoid being the asshats they usually are.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
BattleMonkey said:
I served on a grand jury before, it's an extremely enclosed and private affair unlike a trial. Secrecy is of the most importance. Can info leak? Of course, but really the conspiracy notion. If they expect riots as possible, they are going to prepare either way, they aren't going to wait and see what happens.
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There have already been multiple leaks throughout the process. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they've known the decision for weeks.
 
F

Foxy Fox 39

Banned
backslashbunny said:
Get over yourself. You made a stupid statement about hockey, and I'm a hockey fan. The hockey riots were fucking embarrassing and I was ashamed of their behavior.



If they do, I hope they direct it to the police stations and the courthouses. Violent protest works if you actually are able to convey what you are protesting. I'm not against black people saying that they've had enough of this shit via violent protest, because I do think that at a certain point, violence is the strongest voice, but "protests" that involve looting and burning civilian areas doesn't send any messenge.
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"It demeans Ferguson and St. Louis to compare them to Pumpkin Fest," Professor Donna Murch of Rutgers University told CNN. Which is true -- and makes the contrast between how society perceives black and white behavior all the more striking. The protesters in Ferguson were airing legitimate grievances through mostly peaceful means and yet were denigrated, while the rioters in Keene were merely part of a party that "spun out of control" -- never mind that those in Keene were reportedly drunk and dangerous and disproportionately violent.

The discrepancy is so jarring that none other than Twitchy, the notoriously lock-jawed right wing website, while managing to contort the incident to bash the supposedly liberal media, agreed, "Critics of the media do have a valid point. There probably are a lot of reasons for the difference in coverage, racial bias among them."

Just days after the Pumpkin Fest, riots erupted in the largely white town of Morgantown, West Virginia. Why? Because West Virginia University's team beat Baylor at football. The rioters "lit fires, pushed over street lights and threw rocks, beer bottles and other items at police," reported the local news. Police and fire vehicles were damaged. Eight people were arrested.
Were the riot police, the National Guard, or a state of emergency declared? No. the city is just considering a law to ban upholstered furniture from outdoor areas, since the "tradition" of setting fire to couches apparently fueled the protests.
Could you imagine a news story about a black community with a "tradition" of burning couches? The media would be pointing out how they're "destroying their own community" and the right would make assertions about black people not deserving public assistance.

And there's more. Earlier this year, students at the University of Minnesota rioted after their team lost the hockey championship. In 2013, Michigan State students rioted after their team won the Big Ten. The same year football fans at the State University of New York in Cortland rioted even before the game started. And in 2011, after the University of Connecticut won the national basketball championship, students rioted in the streets.
These occurred in places with mostly white people. In these instance there were injuries, property damage and arrests. Why aren't we talking about the epidemic of sports-induced violence among white people? Why aren't we calling on state and federal agencies to crack down on their clearly destructive lifestyles?

We don't yet know what the grand jury in Ferguson will decide and how the community will respond. But residents want a public trial with transparency and accountability. If the grand jury decides not to indict Officer Darren Wilson, protests can be expected. When that happens, let's think about the real pain that residents of Ferguson feel.
And if there's any violence from a few angry demonstrators, let's keep things in perspective considering the marauding bands of rowdy white football fans and rioting Pumpkin kids.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/kohn-ferguson-protests/index.html

edit: It wasn't a stupid post. Just because you were embarrassed doesn't mean jack. The nation and the media view white riots and white sports riots as just a bunch of rowdy kids. While black people protesting (with a few bad apples) becomes this indictment on the entire black community and we're called animals.
 
C

CHusson91

Banned
Amir0x said:
With all the leaks it's clear he's going to be let go.

I just hope the protesters do not hurt any innocents or destroy the businesses of innocent people. I want them to protest hard and loud and passionately, but I hope they can avoid that.

Just like I hope the police can avoid being the asshats they usually are.
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Agreed, but wishful thinking. I have a feeling this situation is going to get out of hand.
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
Ezenzer said:
You know, Mesousa, I think you could tone the vitriol down a bit. That's more than a little offensive.
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Its actually not offensive at all. Brown folks who got the position of house slave often lived better, more privileged lives, than field or unfavorable brown folks. They got this favorable treatment because they were there to keep the master informed of the general attitude of the larger group. They got their perks, and would often be used to give up information in terms of potential revolution or rebellion.

What else would you say a person who comes out and lectures people while also ignoring and being complicit in a system that looks to hold the majority down? He is a textbook house slave, and I don't mean any offense towards that politician with that statement.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Just tuned into CNN.

9 white people as part of the jury? If he gets off scott free, I don't see this way going well in any case. I'm not familiar with American law but that seems like a place for contention already that could've been avoided.
 
depths20XX

depths20XX

Member
bonercop said:
i wonder how extreme a cop's methods and how clear the evidence has to be before a majority of whites in america would support criminal charges against a cop killing a black person. does it take a videotaped lynching perhaps?

like, really, I'm serious. I wonder how ridiculous a situation it needs to be to see white americans finally stop defending a cop and calling for their heads.
Click to expand...

A public lynching in town square maybe.

Is there a poll of that in this instance? I'm actually curious. Referring to how many white people support indicting this guy.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Amir0x said:
With all the leaks it's clear he's going to be let go.

I just hope the protesters do not hurt any innocents or destroy the businesses of innocent people. I want them to protest hard and loud and passionately, but I hope they can avoid that.

Just like I hope the police can avoid being the asshats they usually are.
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I agree.
 
V

Volimar

Member
Friggen guy fawkes mask people.

enzo_gt said:
Just tuned into CNN.

9 white people as part of the jury? If he gets off scott free, I don't see this way going well in any case. I'm not familiar with American law but that seems like a place for contention already that could've been avoided.
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If I recall correctly, the grand jury racial makeup lines up more or less with that of the county.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
enzo_gt said:
Just tuned into CNN.

9 white people as part of the jury? If he gets off scott free, I don't see this way going well in any case. I'm not familiar with American law but that seems like a place for contention already that could've been avoided.
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How big is the grand jury panel though? The one I served on for 7 months was over 21 jurors big. Grand juries are typically also gathered and serve a term and many cases, they aren't brought together to just decide a single case like this. In my 7 months our jury panel did over 24 cases.
 
E

esms

Member
Mesousa said:
Its actually not offensive at all. Brown folks who got the position of house slave often lived better, more privileged lives, than field or unfavorable brown folks. They got this favorable treatment because they were there to keep the master informed of the general attitude of the larger group. They got their perks, and would often be used to give up information in terms of potential revolution or rebellion.

What else would you say a person who comes out and lectures people while also ignoring and being complicit in a system that looks to hold the majority down? He is a textbook house slave, and I don't mean any offense towards that politician with that statement.
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60 years later and this Malcolm X clip is still relevant. What a shame.
 
B

bonercop

Member
depths20XX said:
A public lynching in town square maybe.

Is there a poll of that in this instance? I'm actually curious. Referring to how many white people support indicting this guy.
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There is this cnn poll, 23% support among whites for a murder, 38% for no charges. Unfortunately I'm not seeing a more detailed breakdown then that.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
BattleMonkey said:
How big is the grand jury panel though? The one I served on for 7 months was over 21 jurors big. Grand juries are typically also gathered and serve a term and many cases, they aren't brought together to just decide a single case like this. In my 7 months our jury panel did over 24 cases.
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I think they said 3 black.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
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Higgy

Member
ZedIndyLil said:
Legal folks--if the GJ decides not to indict, they don't have to give any details on why they decided so, correct?
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No that isn't correct. The decision is not sealed and everything will be made public. But make no mistake. No matter what it says it will be completely ignored. People on both sides have they're minds made up. I believe that if a video came out of the whole incident people would still disregard it because it doesn't fit they're agenda.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
bonercop said:
i wonder how extreme a cop's methods and how clear the evidence has to be before a majority of whites in america would support criminal charges against a cop killing a black person. does it take a videotaped lynching perhaps?

like, really, I'm serious. I wonder how ridiculous a situation it needs to be to see white americans finally stop defending a cop and calling for their heads.
Click to expand...
The problem has as much to do with those in power, and well-off people's trust in power, as it does race.

Let me put it this way: when the shooting happened and the original witnesses came forward, everybody thought it was a straight up murder. It probably, in fact, was. However...

Every move made by the police dept and government from that point on was calculated (sometimes carefully, sometimes sloppily) to cast the victim in a negative light and make the officer look better. We heard (and saw video!) that Mike Brown robbed a shop. Turned out to be false. Toxicology report tested positive for MJ . OH NO! The autopsy shows no shots in the back -- which doesn't meaningfully contradict any of the initial testimony, but is used to argue as much. Then, months later, well after the autopsies, the officer's side of the story finally comes out. It paints the picture of a tragic authority figure threatened for his life by a rampaging young man who apparently deserved to be put down. Why didn't the officer testimony come out sooner? Because it had to fit the narrative.

Casual observers (e.g. white observers) have bought it, hook, line, sinker. It suddenly doesn't matter that a kid was murdered -- hot blood or cold blood -- because "it's not enough to prosecute". And even saying that becomes controversial if you buy what the authorities are selling -- the police are the good guys, why would they lie? Why would a good, wholesome officer gun down a young man who'd done nothing wrong? It makes no sense, therefore the young man must've been a criminal. Q.E.D.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
Jmanunknown said:
It is funny you say this when he has not been charged with anything. That is what the grand jury is about decided whether to charge Officer Wilson with anything. Even if he were to be charged with a crime the likely him of him being convicted is low considering he is a police officer and the prosecutor is most likely on his side even though he will say he is unbiased.
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I meant no intention of presumed guilt in my post. Was just posting a prediction of what I think is going to happen.
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
CHusson91 said:
Agreed, but wishful thinking. I have a feeling this situation is going to get out of hand.
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Well the state cops and National Guard have already pre-judged them by showing up with military-grade weapons and assault gear well ahead of the verdict. If I stand in front of a building with a stern pose, do you think I'd feel okay w/ a LEO overreacting to the point of wearing a bulletproof vest and armed w/ a sub-machine gun at the sight of my mere presence? You're already dehumanizing the person before they have a chance to express any sort of emotion.

It's disgusting how quickly people, both in the thick of it and on the sidelines, jump to the status-quo train of thought, and condemn the humanity of people with the way they respond stereotypically to, well, human beings.

The protesters are not comic book villains.
 
P

PopeReal

Member
Whether some rioters fuck up or the police fuck up, everything will be blamed on the protesters. Meanwhile there will be no pressure on the police to change anything. They know they are above the law and that most Americans support them because they aren't being targeted.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
The CNN commentator thinks it's likely there will be an indictment. Whatever!

Man, I would truly be shocked if that happened after the very convenient leaks out of that group.

Edit: Heh, this other commentator is right on the money.

Why do they keep moving security forces to protect the prosecutor and move the conference to 9:00 if they were going to do the right thing?
 
Z

ZedIndyLil

Member
Higgy said:
No that isn't correct. The decision is not sealed and everything will be made public. But make no mistake. No matter what it says it will be completely ignored. People on both sides have they're minds made up. I believe that if a video came out of the whole incident people would still disregard it because it doesn't fit they're agenda.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
E

Elfforkusu

Member
Mesousa said:
Too many people said he put his hands up for this not to go to trial.
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There is no hard evidence that he wasn't a dangerous and possibly rabid beast in the midst of a transformation from young man to rhinoceros. Therefore, it probably won't.

No one in a position of power, prosecution, defendant, judge, governor, etc, wants this to go to a trial. It won't.
 
H

Higgy

Member
Mesousa said:
Too many people said he put his hands up for this not to go to trial.
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Washington Post reports 5 black witnesses testified that he charged Wilson but are scared to step forward to speak publicly because of possible backlash from the Ferguson community. So seeing the grand jury transcripts are going to be interesting. Anyone who acts like they know all the facts is full of shit.
 
W

WhiskerFrisker

Member
Elfforkusu said:
There is no hard evidence that he wasn't a dangerous and possibly rabid beast in the midst of a transformation from young man to rhinoceros. Therefore, it probably won't.

No one in a position of power, prosecution, defendant, judge, governor, etc, wants this to go to a trial. It won't.
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It's a shame too. The tapes shows people reacting to the shooting while their emotions are at its highest-the heat of the moment- and they were asking why he shot the kid while his hands were up.
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
Higgy said:
Washington Post reports 5 black witnesses testified that he charged Wilson but are scared to step forward to speak publicly because of possible backlash from the Ferguson community. So seeing the grand jury transcripts are going to be interesting. Anyone who acts like they know all the facts is full of shit.
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This is very interesting too. I don't think there has ever been a time in American history where brown folks were scared to rat out other brown folks. America would be coming so far if that was true. in days of past they would parade themselves around with that info Lol.
 
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