Haha i saw that, he doesn't know the police are already there outside. Anyways, the Capitol Police officer punching the protester is @ 12:44 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56194147
Staten Island Grand Jury Does Not Indict in Eric Garner Case
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Haha i saw that, he doesn't know the police are already there outside. Anyways, the Capitol Police officer punching the protester is @ 12:44 http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56194147
Rubber bullets and gas fired on Berkeley, California protesters! http://www.ustream.tv/channel/alphaqupman
chicagocubsfan
Member
D Rose's warmup shirt tonight.
Sounds like trouble. No one knows protesting like Berkeley.
It started when police hit an old man with a billy club to the ground. The old man was with his hands up while walking and things got worse from there.
Edit: @1:24:00
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56193977
http://wn.ktvu.com/story/27566524/raw-police-throw-tear-gas-into-crowd-of-protesters-in-berkeley
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Doing anything but complying within .001 seconds is equal to assault and warrants deadly force in the eyes of idiots.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I think he was saying "I can't breathe" to articulate that he was having great difficulty/pain/trouble breathing. The fact that we expect someone to perfectly articulate a medical issue while being physically pounced on by multiple people is insane. So to me it's really irrelevant if he "technically" could breathe. The point is he was having difficulty with it. And you're right...considering he died I'm inclined to believe him.
Just contrarian bullshit to argue "Well if he SAID he can't breathe then he can breathe!".
Mammoth Jones
Member
He shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. He should have been given a ticket/summons. And someone please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a citizen have the RIGHT to resist an unlawful arrest? Not sure if that changes from State to State but I remember something like that.
Jag
Member
I don't believe you have the right to resist an arrest, but you do have the right to resist being murdered.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
The pull away from the cop right before the headlock would be considered resisting, it is a very easy charge to make and have stick.
You could consider it that on a technicality, but people are using it to justify immediately putting the guy in a chokehold from behind. Violence should never be used on a peaceful person, I don't care if you need to stand there and talk with him for hours.
Ali Winston@awinston
"#Hayward police loaded for less lethal in Berkeley on San Pablo"
KenWayne ‏@KenWayne
"Woman trying to protect broken window at #TraderJoes. #berkeleyprotests"
KenWayne ‏@KenWayne
"Fights between protesters smashing windows & those trying to stop them. #BerkeleyProtests."
"#Hayward police loaded for less lethal in Berkeley on San Pablo"
KenWayne ‏@KenWayne
"Woman trying to protect broken window at #TraderJoes. #berkeleyprotests"
KenWayne ‏@KenWayne
"Fights between protesters smashing windows & those trying to stop them. #BerkeleyProtests."
Random Painted HIghway
Member
In that post I'm not commenting on anything other than the issue of the pre-headlock/chokehold resist. His actions were quite clearly resisting law enforcement. I've lost my fair share of bench trials representing defendants on similar pull away/swats. Its a very very low threshold to be considered "force". It is a ticky tack bullshit charge, don't get me wrong, but its one the cops almost always are going to get to stick.
I'll repeat President Bush's assessment. It's sad. The police did a maneuver that is pretty common. I think Garner's size may have played a role in how much pressure he could have taken on his chest before he reaches a point where he can't breathe. Being 350 pounds, you can't take much additional weight.
I do not feel the officers intended to kill him. But obviously protocols need to change when a guy you are tackling is of that stature.
In the second video, you can see officers put him on his side, which is the best position to aid breathing. He still had a pulse.
I honestly don't know how the police could have taken him in without putting some risk to his health. Tasers can kill. Pepper spray precedes a tackle (thus leading to his death).
This is a complicated case. And it is really sad.
I do not feel the officers intended to kill him. But obviously protocols need to change when a guy you are tackling is of that stature.
In the second video, you can see officers put him on his side, which is the best position to aid breathing. He still had a pulse.
I honestly don't know how the police could have taken him in without putting some risk to his health. Tasers can kill. Pepper spray precedes a tackle (thus leading to his death).
This is a complicated case. And it is really sad.
It's not commonly used at all, the NYPD have banned the move since the very early 90's. That's part of why people have been so angry, they weren't allowed to do what they did and a man died because of it. The NYPD banned it for a reason. There was no need for them to react in the way they did anyway, he wasn't threatening them in at all. He was just standing there.
This isn't a complicated case at all, it's very straightforward. A cop did something he wasn't allowed to for no real reason, a man died as a result and the whole thing was caught on tape. There's nothing complicating it. It couldn't get any simpler.
Selling loosies doesn't get you thrown in jail, it gets you ticketed. There was no reason to arrest him at all.
Yeah, it's an utter crock of shit, but it sticks.
BravesCountry
Banned
Fuck this world. Humans can be so horrifying. If someone is begging you that they can't breathe get the fuck off of them you worthless, ignorant pieces of shit. A fucking mall cop acting like he knows anything about physiology, and ignoring desperate pleas with such a smartass remark. Makes me sick to my stomach.
Hmm. I wasn't aware of that. Have the police commented on the use of the choke-hold in this case?
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/12/05/what-does-eric-garners-autopsy-tell-us/
Anderson Cooper said:
Lawrence Kobilinsky said:
Denial. They said it wasn't one. The coroner said it was a chokehold that killed him.
Good information. Thanks.
Was in Portland today and stumbled into a protest/demonstration/rally while trying to grab some dinner, it seemed mostly non-violent, most I saw was the disruption of businesses and streets. Police traveled along with them on foot, horse and bike incase things got bad; had a squad in riot gear few blocks away.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes, their representatives and union claimed it wasn't a choke hold at all.
Let that sink in.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
It's sad that people still continue to believe and say the manoeuvre is "pretty common" without actually investigating the facts. This case isn't "complicated" at all.
#Berkeley
Berkeley Livestream http://www.ustream.tv/channel/berkeley-justice
Enough is Enough! ‏@enough14
Via @Jayron26: UPDATE: #berkeley Campus flooded with tear gas . #ICantBreathe #EricGarner #MikeBrown #SHUTITDOWN
Juan M. Aldape @juanmaldape
Police smoke everywhere. Attracting more students than dispersing. #Oakland #Ferguson #Berkeley #ICantBreathe
R. Stuart Geiger @staeiou
They've gassed corridor between Durant and Channing, where scared people were hiding out #berkeley #BlackLivesMatter
[
Berkeley Livestream http://www.ustream.tv/channel/berkeley-justice
Enough is Enough! ‏@enough14
Via @Jayron26: UPDATE: #berkeley Campus flooded with tear gas . #ICantBreathe #EricGarner #MikeBrown #SHUTITDOWN
Juan M. Aldape @juanmaldape
Police smoke everywhere. Attracting more students than dispersing. #Oakland #Ferguson #Berkeley #ICantBreathe
R. Stuart Geiger @staeiou
They've gassed corridor between Durant and Channing, where scared people were hiding out #berkeley #BlackLivesMatter
[
EatinOlives
Member
Protocols already changed the chokehold performed on him has been banned for many, many years.
It's extremely easy to see how he could've been taken into custody without killing him. All they had to do was simply get off him when he first stated he couldn't breathe. Put him face-down, put the cuffs on him, and that's it. He was very clearly unarmed since the beginning, the amount of force was completely unnecessary. That they turned him on his side and that "he had a pulse" changes absolutely nothing, because he still died. It was still too much force.
Tasers can kill, but according to this blog (which admittedly is NOT an official source), there were 25 deaths by taser in 2014. Alternatively, there were way more than 25 deaths by police in 2014 (Wikipedia stupidly doesn't count them all up into a single number despite documenting every single one). This is an extremely rough comparison and is all kinds of flawed, but. "He still could've died by taser/pepper spray/etc." is a flawed argument, because the keyword here is he COULD have died. Chances are very high of him surviving a taser or pepper spray. But chances of him being choked to death, with the amount of force that was put on him, was 100%.
Every one of the ways that a police forcibly takes someone into custody has an inherent risk of death. However, that does not excuse the police's behavior in this instance, because the police had every opportunity to treat this in a civilized and professional way and instead they acted like a freshman high school wrestling team, resulting in the suspect dying. That is an unnecessary use of force, which is extremely blatant and in no way justifiable.
http://instagram.com/p/wS-JUqr0KU/
You're right, Berkeley protesters still aren't backing down in the livestream. Definitely holding their ground.
You're right, Berkeley protesters still aren't backing down in the livestream. Definitely holding their ground.
An ex-nypd cop on CNN said that it wasn't actually a chokehold that was used, or at least if the cop was going for one then it was a terrible one. A correctly excuted chokehold, according to him, renders the target incapable of speech since it "crushes" the larynx. That doesn't mean it didn't kill him or contribute to his death in some way, however but it may not have actually been THE banned takedown move.
It's a chokehold by the NYPD's definition which banned them:
They banned any form of neck hold because of its dangers, and he's being disingenuous talking about what a 'correct' chokehold is.
Actually a correct 'chokehold' , as in a textbook MMA rear naked or guillotine or triangle choke, wouldn't be banned (according to just that blurb) as they are blood chokes not air chokes, they act on the carotid artery to stop blood flow to the brain. This happens much faster than a air choke hold works, and doesn't cause permanent damage if released as soon as it is effective. An air choke can cause permanent damage to the larynx or hyoid bone, causes more pain and is less effective.
Of course, I would like to see the rest of the description of the banned holds by the NYPD, as they may have banned blood chokes as well.
A properly executed choke hold places basically no pressure on the windpipe, as it is in the middle of the elbow, while the upper arm and forearm apply pressure to the carotid and jugular.
ETA: Also to be fair, the choke the cop is using in the pic I saw is a arm bar air choke, not a blood choke. It probably wasn't a very good one if the guy was still capable of speech, but it definitely fits in the NYPD ban.
Protests in Berkeley have been awful. Although there were more violent riots near the downtown area, many of the students who were in the vicinity near Telegraph were talking about the tear gas and what was basically unmotivated police violence towards protestors that weren't getting away fast enough. While there were some aggravated assaults, most of them were quieted down when the more peaceful protestors told them to stop. The police threw tear gas in front of my old place, which were fucking campus apartments. Students live there. If I still lived there I would have felt the effects too. Helicopters were flying overhead for most of the night and sirens were going off every half hour or so.
I stayed indoors pretty much the entire day. Normally I try not to pass judgments on cases of police brutality because, really, we don't know the whole story, but this is where I live. It's just...well, real. I know "it's Berkeley lol", but the campus itself ranges anywhere from the extremely studious type to the free spirits, and it annoys me to no end that there might be those of us that are just trying to study for finals and stay out of trouble could be involved in this. What the fuck is any of this?
I stayed indoors pretty much the entire day. Normally I try not to pass judgments on cases of police brutality because, really, we don't know the whole story, but this is where I live. It's just...well, real. I know "it's Berkeley lol", but the campus itself ranges anywhere from the extremely studious type to the free spirits, and it annoys me to no end that there might be those of us that are just trying to study for finals and stay out of trouble could be involved in this. What the fuck is any of this?
The whole story is that there's been decades of racial profiling, harsher sentencing, and outright murder as a result of unreasonable response by police. Not to mention a flow of surplus military equipment turning your local police force into a fucking army. Shit's been brewing for a long time now, and the last thing on anyone's mind is keeping it down so students can study for their biochem finals.
There was another incident of a homeless man in Albuquerque that was also pretty awful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EduzwLhndIM
And another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ptuQfV4q0
it never ends.
The whole story is that there's been decades of racial profiling, harsher sentencing, and outright murder as a result of unreasonable response by police. Not to mention a flow of surplus military equipment turning your local police force into a fucking army. Shit's been brewing for a long time now, and the last thing on anyone's mind is keeping it down so students can study for their biochem finals.
So I have no right to be upset that people with no involvement in this are getting gassed in their own homes?
I you are going to make that claim atleast offer a time stamp of when you saw that.
They didn't have an intent to kill but one of the 2 guys (can't remember if it was the guy choking him or the guy who shoved his head down further) were gleeful in knocking Garner to the ground.
Terrible attitudes. No sense of concern over a situation that didn't need to blow up like that.
jordan0386
Member
Byakuya769
Member
Saying "it's sad" over and over again doesn't cover up the stench of this post.
adamsappel
Member
The pertinent question is: who are you upset with?
It's @ 1:24:00. The protesters got angry and they surrounded the police. The streamer's video has highlight on it too. It's called "Joe knocked down by #141"
Christopher
Member
http://twitchy.com/2014/12/05/is-th...al-issue-i-really-doubt-it-says-his-daughter/
Eric Garners daughter doesn't believe it was a racial issue, and neither do I. Do I think things maybe should have been handled better? Without a doubt in my mind, however the racial approach that's being tossed on this is crazy. Outside of the officer being white, and the man being black...where did racism play into it? Because, if no one can prove this was racially motivated I can't buy in the media lighting a fire under this whole thing.
Are people angry? Yes Should people protest? 100% nothing starts until you take action - but to blanket statement this is a racial thing is setting is so unsettling to me.
Eric Garners daughter doesn't believe it was a racial issue, and neither do I. Do I think things maybe should have been handled better? Without a doubt in my mind, however the racial approach that's being tossed on this is crazy. Outside of the officer being white, and the man being black...where did racism play into it? Because, if no one can prove this was racially motivated I can't buy in the media lighting a fire under this whole thing.
Are people angry? Yes Should people protest? 100% nothing starts until you take action - but to blanket statement this is a racial thing is setting is so unsettling to me.
You realize their can be a racial aspect beyond the Cop wanting to kill a black guy?
Christopher
Member
Educate me, seriously, as someone who is a mixed race of black and white I don't have any advantage of "choosing a side".
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I hate this sentiment that as long as you don't shout the N word at someone you are completely absolved of behaving out of racism. Such piss poor reasoning.
Christopher
Member
And your reasoning outside of the two being a different race are...?
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
The cop killing the man may not have been racially motivated, but the grand jury letting the cop off might have been. Or not. It could have been purely because some cops get away with all sorts of nasty shit more often than they should.
Either way, I'm all for the protests that are going on. It's been great seeing them here in NYC (I haven't been able to take part because of work). Even if race is taken out of the equation, there's still the problem of ongoing police brutality that could and should be controlled.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
The decades-spanning, irrefutable racial disparity in our justice system that makes it dishonest to dismiss individual cases which contribute to that whole.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Protip: Saying "As a black man" doesn't absolve your post of being dumb as shit.
I really wish people would stop saying that shit as if they're a black representative or something. Like fuck outta here with that shit.
I really wish people would stop saying that shit as if they're a black representative or something. Like fuck outta here with that shit.
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