LIZARD SQUAD is Back. Planning XBL Attack. "Biggest attack yet". [UP: XBL/PSN Down]

can't believe PSN web store is still down, unbelievable. I wanted to buy a few games crap :/ guess i'll try the IOS app....

EDIT: The IOS PSN app just sends you to the web version of the PS store LOL
 
I get the frustration but thankfully I'm on vacation visiting my family so I have plenty to keep me busy from gaming. Hope it's fixed by next week though!
 
TheChewyWaffles said:
If only Microsoft had a few more megabits of ram in their ISP lines this bullshit wouldn't happen. I'm goddam sick of their complacency. Every XBL member should be compensated a free year of PSN.
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Oh please. If anything, this is Sony's fault for allowing their cables to get so entangled, jamming up all the 1s and 0s in the process. I want a hand-written letter from Obama apologising for this shit, and my choice from six free Neo Geo Pocket Color games.
 
Animator said:
So wait people are returning consoles because the network was down a day for the busiest day of the year?
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In their eye, the thing they just bought doesn't work. They don't know if the defect is the PS4 or the internet so they just return it thinking its the PS4 having a problem.
 
Big Green Anus said:
Both? I would hope that game companies would agree with each other to help minimize these attacks by working together :)
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YMvfe1o.jpg
 
MastorofPuppetz said:
Last month was not PSN, nor did it have anything to do with PSN PSn has been rock solid since the hack, your confusing different things. The Sony pictures hack had zero to do with PSN. PSN was only ever breached once, not twice.
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I never said it had to do with PSN. Man, people like to just make assumptions eh? My point was that Sony as a company had two really big hacks. Not DDoS, actual hacking. Two of them. Both of which compromised personal data. You would have figured after the PSN hack, they would have upgraded everything across the entire company, not JUST PSN. That seems silly, it just means you will be targeted at your less secure spots - this time, Sony Pictures. So what, did they upgrade Sony Pictures now but not anything else? Could be another branch next time.


Beefy said:
Why are you turning this into a "mine is better then yours" contest? Both got DDoSed and both are having peoblems. It is as simple as that.
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I'm not, the editorial did that by saying Sony has better security today thanks to upgrades than Microsoft, infering Microsoft is like a open highway in comparison, Yet, what evidence is actually provided that this is the case? There wasn't any, accept proof that Sony upgraded security, not that Microsoft's security was actually poor.

Microsoft deals with database management in practicually every branch of their entire company. It's actually a lot more plausible they have had really good security the entire time, and if not, a lot better encryptions to protect the data if it does get accessed, becuase Microsoft hasn't had anything like this happen in any of their departments, yet it happened in two different departments at Sony.

And you can't tell me Microsoft isn't equally targetted by backing. Microsoft has arguably even more important data to protect, at least financially. I bet they deal with threats year round. Yet, nothing seem sto ever come of it outside of DDoS attacks, which no one can stop.

I'm not making this a "Sony vs Microsoft" thing, the editorial did that, to which my only response is that if Microsoft isn't that secure, than why has no one's personal data ever been accessed and released? Why has nothing of value been compromised in the entire history of the company, one of the largest in the entire world?

I just like evidence, not "Sony upgraded to the latest stuff, so they are better protected". Seems silly. Whatever Microsoft HAS been doing, it's worked.

As for "fan debates" on this silly nonsense, others were saying how PSN or whatever would never get up to Xbox Security levels. That was always a silly claim by xbox fans. Of course it could. But until Xbox Live is hacked nad has personal data and accounts released, the evidence isn't there to support it being easier to do antyhing with.

That's all. I am more upset Sony didn't use the PSN attack as a warning that hey, we should be upgrading company wide, not just on the video game platform side.

That being said, yay Wii U? NBo idea how secure they are and they probably don't get targeted as much, but something about accounts tied to hardware feels like a solid measure to prevent any real data getting stolen.
 
Aroll said:
I never said it had to do with PSN. Man, people like to just make assumptions eh? My point was that Sony as a company had two really big hacks. Not DDoS, actual hacking. Two of them. Both of which compromised personal data. You would have figured after the PSN hack, they would have upgraded everything across the entire company, not JUST PSN. That seems silly, it just means you will be targeted at your less secure spots - this time, Sony Pictures. So what, did they upgrade Sony Pictures now but not anything else? Could be another branch next time.




I'm not, the editorial did that by saying Sony has better security today thanks to upgrades than Microsoft, infering Microsoft is like a open highway in comparison, Yet, what evidence is actually provided that this is the case? There wasn't any, accept proof that Sony upgraded security, not that Microsoft's security was actually poor.

Microsoft deals with database management in practicually every branch of their entire company. It's actually a lot more plausible they have had really good security the entire time, and if not, a lot better encryptions to protect the data if it does get accessed, becuase Microsoft hasn't had anything like this happen in any of their departments, yet it happened in two different departments at Sony.

And you can't tell me Microsoft isn't equally targetted by backing. Microsoft has arguably even more important data to protect, at least financially. I bet they deal with threats year round. Yet, nothing seem sto ever come of it outside of DDoS attacks, which no one can stop.

I'm not making this a "Sony vs Microsoft" thing, the editorial did that, to which my only response is that if Microsoft isn't that secure, than why has no one's personal data ever been accessed and released? Why has nothing of value been compromised in the entire history of the company, one of the largest in the entire world?

I just like evidence, not "Sony upgraded to the latest stuff, so they are better protected". Seems silly. Whatever Microsoft HAS been doing, it's worked.

As for "fan debates" on this silly nonsense, others were saying how PSN or whatever would never get up to Xbox Security levels. That was always a silly claim by xbox fans. Of course it could. But until Xbox Live is hacked nad has personal data and accounts released, the evidence isn't there to support it being easier to do antyhing with.

That's all. I am more upset Sony didn't use the PSN attack as a warning that hey, we should be upgrading company wide, not just on the video game platform side.

That being said, yay Wii U? NBo idea how secure they are and they probably don't get targeted as much, but something about accounts tied to hardware feels like a solid measure to prevent any real data getting stolen.
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The article in question was regarding LIVE and PSN,, nothing else, so what are you even rambling on about? Has nothing to do with what was discussed.


how do you know they didnt upgrade anything? Did you miss the article that shows 90% of all companies in the US are also vulnerable to the same thing? Government, Banks have gotten hacked, you are trying to make it soound like Sony is the only one at risk here.

PSn being hacked in 2011 has zero bearing on where PSn is today, so basing it off them being hacked years ago is useless now. PSn today is vastly more secure then back then.
 
flyinpiranha said:
I totally get your frustration. That is 100% understandable. I just can't fathom two people returning a PS4 because they couldn't login to PSN for two days. I mean, what are they going to do now? Just not play? XBL is/was down too so that knocks XB1 out. So basically they are either PC gamers or the Wii U.

Wait, the Wii U ... I think I know who LizardSquad is!
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I agree that those friends of mines were silly, but I did try to convinced them to not return it. However, they chose not to listen to me :(

I believe I saw on the Lizard Twitter that read" Nintendo for life". I think you're on to something!
 
MastorofPuppetz said:
The article in question was regarding LIVE and PSN,, nothing else, so what are you even rambling on about? Has nothing to do with what was discussed.
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Sure it does. I directly referenced both live and PSN. The idea that PSN has vastly superior security after upgrading seems silly, since they targeted Microsoft and Live to say it's worse - yet, nothing has ever come from it being worse, so, what's the problem really? Why is it worth even comparing them if data isn't compromised iether way. The way they worded the piece suggested that your data is compromised on live, but it hasn't been, and there is no reason to think people haven't tried.

As for banks and other areas getting hacked - no surprise to be honest. They aren't experts in computers and servers, they merely use them and outsource everything.
 
Aroll said:
That's all. I am more upset Sony didn't use the PSN attack as a warning that hey, we should be upgrading company wide, not just on the video game platform side.
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My only comment here, is that Sony likely *did* take the original hack as a warning, and started the process of corporate-wide upgrades to infrastructure.

But here lay the problem with megacorps - they move slow. Glacial. The bigger the corporation, the slower it takes for them to turn around in anything, or make important moves. We're talking about a company with close to quarter of a million employees, spread out across hugely diverse businesses like photography, semiconductors, medical equipment, video, games, music, movies - all global. All with their own deparment heads, executive branches, meetings, people needing to sign things, people being in different time zones.. it's crazy.

And all it takes is for one person with a laptop to not have two-factor authentication, and all those upgrades wouldn't matter any way since now hackers have an easy in. That's the peril of supermassive corporations and general network infrastructure. Sony Canada might be secure, but Sony Australia wasn't, and so that was used as an entrypoint. What about Sony India, Russia, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia... the list goes on.

Daily, corporations are suffering from DDoS attacks and hack attempts. And very few of those are actually reported, if at all. It's not in a company's best interest to admit they've been hacked, so they'll try to stall announcing it for as long as legally possible. By then, people's accounts have been compromised, information leaked/sold, which in turn leads to more hacking as they now have new vectors and sometimes unsalted passwords... it's crazy.

This doesn't excuse Sony, but I think you can't look at these things purely in a vacuum.
 
Marcel said:
i'm not sure if you heard since you're new to GAF and all but there's a console war going on. you're gonna kill troop morale with this talk of "ceasefire" and "alliance"
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I didn't mean it in a "console war" way and I apologized for that. I don't want people thinking that I'm some fanboy of a company. I just love gaming :)
 
UpDownLeftRight said:
It still doesn't change anything since the tech is only as good as it can be.

It's like saying PS4 will do 4K uncharted because there's money to be made. There is, but it doesn't make it possible.
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Miktar said:
It's magic to think that capitalism solves all problems when pressed hard enough - it doesn't have a great track record really. Captialism tries to protect capitalism, even if it kills itself in the process.
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I'm probably being glib and ignorant. I appreciate that there are massive technical and economic hurdles to overcome, I don't think that PS4 will render games in 4k just because there's money to be made.

However, if DDoS is an unavoidable byproduct of TCP/IP then what? We give up on the internet? Pay tithes to whatever-squad so we can use PSN, XBL, Amazon? Or find another way?

I don't know what the solution is, but what are you saying? "Give up, it's too hard"?
 
Aroll said:
Sure it does. I directly referenced both live and PSN. The idea that PSN has vastly superior security after upgrading seems silly, since they targeted Microsoft and Live to say it's worse - yet, nothing has ever come from it being worse, so, what's the problem really? Why is it worth even comparing them if data isn't compromised iether way. The way they worded the piece suggested that your data is compromised on live, but it hasn't been, and there is no reason to think people haven't tried.
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Says you, I don;t see it as silly at all, MS is not the only company that can be secure...... Live never being compromised has nothing to do with anything, PSn today is not the same OSn that was compromsed.
 
Ranger X said:
In their eye, the thing they just bought doesn't work. They don't know if the defect is the PS4 or the internet so they just return it thinking its the PS4 having a problem.
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They must be really stupid to miss the "psn/live is down" news that is on every news website and tv channel.
 
Servbot #42 said:
can't believe PSN web store is still down, unbelievable. I wanted to buy a few games crap :/ guess i'll try the IOS app....

EDIT: The IOS PSN app just sends you to the web version of the PS store LOL
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lol its almost as if Sony doesn't want to pay Apple 30% or something.
 
MastorofPuppetz said:
Says you, I don;t see it as silly at all, MS is not the only company that can be secure...... Live never being compromised has nothing to do with anything, PSn today is not the same OSn that was compromsed.
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OT, Regardless, I found it improbable that PSN has a better network security (given the nature of MS), as I doubt that MS didnt beefed up their Security after the PSN hack.
 
Miktar said:
My only comment here, is that Sony likely *did* take the original hack as a warning, and started the process of corporate-wide upgrades to infrastructure.

But here lay the problem with megacorps - they move slow. Glacial. The bigger the corporation, the slower it takes for them to turn around in anything, or make important moves. We're talking about a company with close to quarter of a million employees, spread out across hugely diverse businesses like photography, semiconductors, medical equipment, video, games, music, movies - all global. All with their own deparment heads, executive branches, meetings, people needing to sign things, people being in different time zones.. it's crazy.

And all it takes is for one person with a laptop to not have two-factor authentication, and all those upgrades wouldn't matter any way since now hackers have an easy in. That's the peril of supermassive corporations and general network infrastructure.
Click to expand...

I understand. I just figured 3+ years later, they would have had this sorted, you know? I know companies can be slow anbd sit on their hands and debate for eons on what should or shouldn't be done, but then, it's still their fault either way.

I think we can all agree it sucks that hackers even want to target companies and get people's personal information. It sucks that people want to DDoS and "hurt" millions of gamers and their ability to play games just for the hell of it. It does suck, no matter who you enjoy.

I'm a Wii U and Xbox One guy, but I want a PS4 pretty bad. Just waiting for the right time. I just... am not really sure what to think when this stuff happens. I'm not like rah rah Microsoft is awesome! Just more so that I as a consumer feel more secure on their account systems, because they haven't been compromised anywhere that I am aware of, and security and server stuff is exactly what the company does every day in most departments, making me feel like Live is secure. Now, that's not obviously 100% factual evidence, but as I said, for me, the proof is in teh results. I never once stated PSN was worse than Xbox Live security today, but I am not really trying to compare them. Just that neither should really be put down unless something happens again.
 
slop101 said:
Obviously this isn't their fault, but hopefully this may lead to developers/publshers loosen their grip on their whole "always online" idea, when they see how easy it is to keep paying subscribers out of their system.

They've been so tone-deaf and oblivious on how shaky the internet can be and how fragile people's connections are (for example, in the last two years, I've had my electricity go out once, for 30 minutes. In comparison, my internet, has gone out around once a month, for a total of around 100 hours over the last two years - and I live in LA, not the boondocks. Add in PSN going out, and it's much worse). And if anything, it seems that their server stability has gotten worse, not better.
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BOOM! This is way we shouted down the idea for the Xbox One. We KNOW these things happen. Why would we want an online only console?
 
Caja 117 said:
OT, Regardless, I found it improbable that PSN has a better network security (given the nature of MS), as I doubt that MS didnt beefed up their Security after the PSN hack.
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I don't at all. Sony being hacked if anything probably caused them to over compensate. Never said Ms didn't upgrade either, but it is not crazy to suggest that PSN could be more secure then LIVE.
 
NotSmartEnough said:
However, if DDoS is an unavoidable byproduct of TCP/IP then what? We give up on the internet? Pay tithes to whatever-squad so we can use PSN, XBL, Amazon? Or find another way?

I don't know what the solution is, but what are you saying? "Give up, it's too hard"?
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I'm saying that there is a fundamental problem with the Internet, one that needs to be addressed, and the longer it goes unaddressed the more of these kinds of events we'll be seeing. It only ramps up from here.

I don't think giving up on the internet is even an option, it's practically a municipal commodity now. I certainly don't think we should be paying "protection money" to people who could, or might, DDoS a corporation. I do think this is a problem way too big for a single person, or company, to solve. I know that places like Google are actively working to find a solution, but since there is no turn-key solution to it, it's going to take time, and a lot more cooperation from the economic world as a whole.

Perhaps the solution lay in a more unified infrastructure, like having only Google offer internet services for the entire planet, and then it's their responsibility to manage the system and prevent its abuse. But do I see that happening? Hell no - people would shout antitrust so fast it'd make Bill Gates flinch.

I don't claim to have the solution. I've only been explaining the reality of the situation as best I can, to those coming into the thread angry and confused that their consoles aren't working.

In the meantime, all companies like Sony and MS can do, is pay more for more mitigation, partner with more mitigation agencies, and work with their technical advisers to try and put better end-user verification in place for when the pipes clear, and ensure that redundancy is up to spec to assist when the network tries to recover from this kind of thing.

Aroll said:
I understand. I just figured 3+ years later, they would have had this sorted, you know? I know companies can be slow anbd sit on their hands and debate for eons on what should or shouldn't be done, but then, it's still their fault either way..
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Agreed - the recent Sony hack was unfortunate in light of the PSN hack from years back, but both are rather unrelated to the current DDoS situation. The hacking is unfortunate, and something Sony is going to be recovering from for decades, and hopefully, it'll speed up the process of them bringing their infrastructure up to code and then some. But PSN being down due to DDoS, and Christmas flood, is pretty unavoidable.
 
Aroll said:
I understand. I just figured 3+ years later, they would have had this sorted, you know? I know companies can be slow anbd sit on their hands and debate for eons on what should or shouldn't be done, but then, it's still their fault either way.

I think we can all agree it sucks that hackers even want to target companies and get people's personal information. It sucks that people want to DDoS and "hurt" millions of gamers and their ability to play games just for the hell of it. It does suck, no matter who you enjoy.

I'm a Wii U and Xbox One guy, but I want a PS4 pretty bad. Just waiting for the right time. I just... am not really sure what to think when this stuff happens. I'm not like rah rah Microsoft is awesome! Just more so that I as a consumer feel more secure on their account systems, because they haven't been compromised anywhere that I am aware of, and security and server stuff is exactly what the company does every day in most departments, making me feel like Live is secure. Now, that's not obviously 100% factual evidence, but as I said, for me, the proof is in teh results. I never once stated PSN was worse than Xbox Live security today, but I am not really trying to compare them. Just that neither should really be put down unless something happens again.
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PSN hasnt been compromised since the attack. it is now getting DDoS'ed, which is different. There is an article in this very thread stating that Sony beefed up security significantly since that attack.


Sony Pictures got compromised.
 
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