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[LegendofLex]

single button for sword and extra buttons for fairly useless combat alternatives

radical

That's basically the raison d'être for Nintendo games, isn't it? Where other developers pile on complexity, Nintendo takes the fun of a genre and translates it into simple fundamentals (often revolving around just one or two primary buttons) backed by approachable content. NES was this sort of alternative for PC games; DS and Wii were similar alternatives to PSP, PS3, and Xbox 360.

Personally, I'd like more engaging combat. I like real-time action combat, but I know I'm in the minority. I just don't have fun fighting enemies in Zelda. You can argue that Zelda isn't about combat, but that doesn't mean the combat can't be changed. They should fix the combat music at least. I don't think I ever liked Zelda non-boss combat music.

I like how the argument against better, more engaging content often boils down to "but I'm not engaged by the combat in Zelda games."

As if the problem with the combat in Zelda was anything but the fact that it's not engaging. If it's not engaging, then why should it even exist?

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Personally, I'd like more engaging combat. I like real-time action combat, but I know I'm in the minority. I just don't have fun fighting enemies in Zelda. You can argue that Zelda isn't about combat, but that doesn't mean the combat can't be changed. They should fix the combat music at least. I don't think I ever liked Zelda non-boss combat music.

 

[balgajo]

Do people really still care about combat in Zelda? It's always been terrible, even back in the 80s and 90s. Terrible combat isn't a staple of modern Zelda, it's just a staple of Zelda.

Actually Zelda has one of my favorites real time combats controls, the problem is that it isn't well explored. I really feel that I'm in total control of the character.

 

[EatinOlives]

Let's be honest: combat is terrible in most games.

What people like me want from combat in Zelda is to at least feel like those potions and better swords and better shields and better armor we can get are actually worthwhile based on the combat intensity of the game. And it'd be nice if they weren't just handed to us at a predetermined point in the story, but instead had to be discovered and earned.

I'm not expecting combat in Zelda to be the absolute gold standard against which all game combat should be measured. (Although, truthfully, I think combat in Zelda 1 was better than combat in pretty much any RPG type game I've played from the era.) I just expect it to have Nintendo feels + an incentive to make my character stronger besides the completionist itch.

I agree. I also want combat to not be piss-easy. Late-game enemies in Twilight Princess were still dealing 1/4th of a heart. WTF.

 

[DeaviL]

single button for sword and extra buttons for fairly useless combat alternatives

radical

Two buttons for the sword, just sayin.

 

[Ahnez]

Bow will be the default weapon, and the sword will be an equipable item. Now you have many sword buttons

Spoiler

You heard it here first

 

[LegendofLex]

Bow will be the default weapon, and the sword will be an equipable item.

Spoiler

You heard it here first

Disagree. I'm fairly sure the bow will be a primary combat weapon alongside the sword, though.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

but none of this content gives the player the feeling that they "discovered" it since all of it was telegraphed to the player through mandatory exposition and most of it is literally plotted on the map before you ever have a chance to try to get there on your own.

Ugh!
This a very shortsighted way of approaching how different people think and feel.
I have no idea why players like you who favor free-roaming exploration act as though it's not possible for other players to feel as though they discovered something even when it's mandatory.
I mentioned it in the Mario thread, but a lot of my feelings of discovery/mystery/adventure comes from interacting with the world and creating dynamics, simply running around large stretches of empty land doesn't do a lot for me. It actually kind of makes everything a lot more tedious than it should be.
When I landed in Lanayru Mines and saw that big wide-shot of the dessert filled with large ancient statues I was excited to explore and interact with it, and that's exactly what I did; it didn't matter that I had to be there because I was excited to be there and curious about what was ahead of me.
I discovered the timeshift stones, I discovered that they have the power to look into the past, I discovered an ancient mining robot civilization, I discovered a vast dessert, I discovered large quicksand rivers, I discovered Lanayru dragon flies, I discovered ancient pathways beneath the quick sand, I discovered abandoned dilapidated mining facilities, and I discovered the Gate of Time.
I felt as though I had a lot of agency in that game, and I didn't need it to be free-roaming in order for me to feel this way.
Open your mind a little and try to understand that free roaming gameplay is not the only way to create a diverse emotional palette embedded with feelings of agency and discovery.

I'd wager they were thinking that an action game should require precision from the player.

I'd wager that they probably didn't know how to program horizontal slices, and that's why they changed that as it was quickly as possible; the game feel on the poke was dreadful, and lining up the character to attack an enemy with the awkward grid-based movement felt pretty bad too.

If the combat is so boring that you want to end it already, then it's bad combat. Why don't you want more engaging combat?

You misunderstood what I was saying completely.
Post-ALTTP Zelda games have combat with fantastic game feel; the mechanics and dynamics look good, sound good, and feel good.
However, combat isn't the main course on a Zelda plate. Combat in Zelda exists as a difference in kind, it's just there to spice up the experience and create an interest curve (It sometimes also exists as a difference in scale)
Zelda's traditional combat mechanics are incredibly simplistic, and the dynamics often repeat themselves.
When I say "Man...I wanna get back to running, jumping, climbing, and using my items again.", that doesn't mean I'm bored. I'm just like 5 times more interested in getting back to the most complex and deep aspect of the game's overall design (The Link/Item/Environment/Boss interplay)

Edit:

Agreed. Having just come from Dragon Age: Inquisitions, the first thing I thought seeing the demo was "Ick". I want a Zelda game that's packed full of tight content and puzzles, not tracts of empty land, especially when the cost of that huge rendering distance is out-dated, bland textures in the foreground.

...

I guess the only way to get that real Zelda experience now-a-days is to be on PC with Steam and downloading all the great indie action-RPGs. The Kickstarter demo for Hyper Light Drifter gave me 100x the old Zelda nostalgia feels than this ever could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMosNHhyxI

This is exactly what Skyward Sword's Hyrule overworld was doing...
Every province was running, jumping, climbing, fighting, swinging, and using your items to solve complex environmental puzzles or interact with obstacles....
It is the most dense content packed Hyrule that has ever been conceived...and I'm pretty bummed that they most likely won't refine, and evolve the idea in Zelda U.

 

[sinxtanx]

Concerning combat...I enjoy both Twilight Princess' mechanical width of options, and Skyward Sword mechanical depth of swinging the sword at any angle, so the perfect Zelda combat to me would be basically TP's combat with the ability to swing the sword in any angle you like using the right analog stick while Z-targeting. I feel that that would be an adequate compromise that would allow for a much deeper exploration of the basic 3D Zelda combat system.

 

[banofypie]

Concerning combat...I enjoy both Twilight Princess' mechanical width of options, and Skyward Sword mechanical depth of swinging the sword at any angle, so the perfect Zelda combat to me would be basically TP's combat with the ability to swing the sword in any angle you like using the right analog stick while Z-targeting. I feel that that would be an adequate compromise that would allow for a much deeper exploration of the basic 3D Zelda combat system.

Even the left stick paired with the B button would work. Just get rid of the dumb enemies that have erratic blocking patterns like Bokoblins and throw me stuff like the beamos to use it on and it'll be grand.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Concerning combat...I enjoy both Twilight Princess' mechanical width of options, and Skyward Sword mechanical depth of swinging the sword at any angle, so the perfect Zelda combat to me would be basically TP's combat with the ability to swing the sword in any angle you like using the right analog stick while Z-targeting. I feel that that would be an adequate compromise that would allow for a much deeper exploration of the basic 3D Zelda combat system.

Twilight Princess's hidden moves were so nice. Being able to pull off cool moves made the combat so much more fresh feeling. Skyward Sword's was more engaging from the get go, but after a while it gets really dull feeling. I feel like there really should have been a similar system of hidden moves in that game.

That, or not countless Bokoblin hoards as the main enemies.

 

[Gsnap]

Combat in Zelda is perfectly fine, as far as what your character can do. It's the enemy behavior that needs an overhaul. They need to be smarter and tougher. They should also have more variety. In Zelda, you can kill or fight enemies with a variety of tools, but you rarely need to. If more enemies required various items to beat that would be nice. Just change the enemies, then the combat would be more engaging.

 

[Anth0ny]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

 

[banofypie]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

Zelda should learn a thing or two from Dark Souls, but not that.

 

[LegendofLex]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

Or, alternatively, you need a system that requires much more precision - the stabs of LoZ and Zelda II vs. the sweeping "hit everything in front of you" arcs of LttP and beyond.

 

[banofypie]

Or, alternatively, you need a system that requires much more precision - the stabs of LoZ and Zelda II vs. the sweeping "hit everything in front of you" arcs of LttP and beyond.

Do you just have a fetish for precision? You make it sound like the established rules for an action game even existed in the 80's from what you've said about Zelda 1. Those were technical limitations quite clearly, not design elements. Replicating things that came about because of technical limitations is hardly what Nintendo should be going for. That includes an empty overworld that only has really awkward to find secrets, by the by.

Why can't we just be happy that we're getting a new Zelda that's deviating from what Zelda was the game before it? Why does it have to pick elements from a DIFFERENT era of Zelda? Let this game be whatever the hell it wants to be, man.

 

[TheCongressman1]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

Or, alternatively, you need a system that requires much more precision - the stabs of LoZ and Zelda II vs. the sweeping "hit everything in front of you" arcs of LttP and beyond.

Add all of this together.

Stabs and sweeps can be used together, and stamina gives you a reason to choose wisely when attacking.

 

[brandonh83]

Combat in Zelda isn't terrible. Come on. Sure it could be classified as such in the older, archaic ones but the 3D Zeldas have fun, functional combat. You could say that the combat systems in them aren't necessarily the focus of the games as Zelda is largely a package deal, but terrible? Give me a break.

 

[The Boat]

Ugh!
This a very shortsighted way of approaching how different people think and feel.
I have no idea why players like you who favor free-roaming exploration act as though it's not possible for other players to feel as though they discovered something even when it's mandatory.
I mentioned it in the Mario thread, but a lot of my feelings of discovery/mystery/adventure comes from interacting with the world and creating dynamics, simply running around large stretches of empty land doesn't do a lot for me. It actually kind of makes everything a lot more tedious than it should be.
When I landed in Lanayru Mines and saw that big wide-shot of the dessert filled with large ancient statues I was excited to explore and interact with it, and that's exactly what I did; it didn't matter that I had to be there because I was excited to be there and curious about what was ahead of me.
I discovered the timeshift stones, I discovered that they have the power to look into the past, I discovered an ancient mining robot civilization, I discovered a vast dessert, I discovered large quicksand rivers, I discovered Lanayru dragon flies, I discovered ancient pathways beneath the quick sand, I discovered abandoned dilapidated mining facilities, and I discovered the Gate of Time.
I felt as though I had a lot of agency in that game, and I didn't need it to be free-roaming in order for me to feel this way.
Open your mind a little and try to understand that free roaming gameplay is not the only way to create a diverse emotional palette embedded with feelings of agency and discovery.

I very much agree with you. I always thought that this idea that exploration=open world is pretty stupid. There's plenty of ways to explore a game's world and characters even on linear paths.

 

[pupcoffee]

I very much agree with you. I always thought that this idea that exploration=open world is pretty stupid. There's plenty of ways to explore a game's world and characters even on linear paths.

Demon's Souls did that so very well.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Let's be honest: combat is terrible in most games.

What people like me want from combat in Zelda is to at least feel like those potions and better swords and better shields and better armor we can get are actually worthwhile based on the combat intensity of the game. And it'd be nice if they weren't just handed to us at a predetermined point in the story, but instead had to be discovered and earned.

I'm not expecting combat in Zelda to be the absolute gold standard against which all game combat should be measured. (Although, truthfully, I think combat in Zelda 1 was better than combat in pretty much any RPG type game I've played from the era.) I just expect it to have Nintendo feels + an incentive to make my character stronger besides the completionist itch.

Have you played link between worlds? It was the first zelda game where i really felt the weapon upgrade made a difference. Some enemies go from needing 15 hits to kil, to 8, down to 2

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I very much agree with you. I always thought that this idea that exploration=open world is pretty stupid. There's plenty of ways to explore a game's world and characters even on linear paths.

It sort of seems as though exploration is a very limited term when it's in use by both enthusiast and game developers.
As a dynamic it's often boiled down to "Running around looking for things to do in a big open environment with limited-restrictions and limited direction.", which in and of itself could be a specific way to drive players to explore.
But when it's described as the only way for the player to explore, the only way to create an emotional palette based on feelings of adventure/discovery/curiosity/mystery that mindset becomes a huge problem for the direction of the medium (imo)
Specifically because I strongly feel like I'm exploring in lots of great linear games due to the fact that I'm often interacting with the level mechanics and creating dynamics through my own free-will. I also rarely know what's gonna happen, and that's a big deal.
I didn't know that there would be a civilization of mining robots at Lanayru, I didn't know that there would be mine-carts, I didn't know that timeshift stones existed, I didn't know I'd be traveling back in time, I didn't know that there would be hermit crab monsters, I didn't know that you could use hermit crab monster shells to travel across quick sand rivers, and I didn't know that the robots had set up numerous intricate factories and facilities within the desert's boarders.
All I really knew was that Lanayru was once green, and Zelda was somewhere around thee area...that's about it.

Edit:
I really don't think Zelda's swordplay needs to be anymore complicated than just shielding, shield bashing, or parrying at the right time; maybe make the enemies hit a little harder or something, but there is no reason to complicate the mechanics or dynamics.

 

[BY2K]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

Well, Skyward Sword did that... but only for spin attacks.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Personally I'd rather something faster paced than Dark Souls.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Personally I'd rather something faster paced than Dark Souls.

Part of the reason I loved Ninja Gaiden Black was because it was clearly inspired by the Zelda series in many ways. I'd love for a game to come along with that sort of action gameplay combined with the exploration and puzzle solving found in Zelda games.

 

[Anth0ny]

Zelda should learn a thing or two from Dark Souls, but not that.

Personally I'd rather something faster paced than Dark Souls.

I don't think Link needs to control as slow and clunky as the character in Dark Souls. Adjusting to the slowness of the character/his sword swing/roll is part of the intense difficulty of the game. Zelda doesn't need that. Link can keep his speed, but the player should be punished for wildly swinging their sword at an opponent, or holding up their shield for too long and absorbing a bunch of attacks, or rolling/backflipping too much. Stamina meter accomplishes that.

Or, alternatively, you need a system that requires much more precision - the stabs of LoZ and Zelda II vs. the sweeping "hit everything in front of you" arcs of LttP and beyond.

I love the combat in Zelda II, but I'm not sure how you can realistically translate that into 3D Zelda.

 

[ReyVGM]

So, about the NPC's having schedules in this new Zelda. How do you feel about that?

 

[RomanceDawn]

So, about the NPC's having schedules in this new Zelda. How do you feel about that?

Yes please! I loved that so much in Majoras Mask and the times it happened in other Zeldas. Something about it really appeals to me.

 

[RoadHazard]

To fix Zelda combat all you need is a stamina bar that drains when you attack so you can't just spam spin attacks or jump slashes or mash b. Every attack counts. Maybe that way a bokoblin will actually land a hit on you.

Nah.

I would actually really like that. Would add some much needed strategy and need for restraint into Zelda combat, which is sorely needed. It doesn't have to (and shouldn't) be as tough as Souls about this, obviously, but not being able to just mindlessly mash away would make things much more engaging. SS already did this in a way with its directional slashes, and I did enjoy that. This time they can't really do it that way, since the Gamepad will obviously be the main input method (don't think using the right stick for it would be all that good, and I want that available for camera control), so something like combat stamina would be nice.

So, about the NPC's having schedules in this new Zelda. How do you feel about that?

Fuck yes, bring back the timed events and shit. Unique events would be a bit harder to pull off in a natural way, since this will (I assume) not have a time cycle like MM, but scheduled activities and stuff would be ace.

 

[Nickle]

Stamina bars are the worst. The thing preventing you from repeatedly doing stuff like spin attacks should be a well designed enemy, not a meter.

 

[ReyVGM]

Fuck yes, bring back the timed events and shit. Unique events would be a bit harder to pull off in a natural way, since this will (I assume) not have a time cycle like MM, but scheduled activities and stuff would be ace.

Considering the game has clock now, I think there will be some kind of schedules for NPCs or timed events, even if they are not as deep as the ones from MM.

I see no reason for the game to tell you the time if it's not going to be used in a meaningful way.
Other Zelda games gave you day/night cycles, but no clock. Skyward let you skip to morning and night by sleeping in a bed, but still, no clock. I suspect this new Zelda will let you camp out in the map to skip to morning or night, or maybe in between like those "sleep chambers" from Xenoblade Chornicles X that let you skip to any time of the day.

 

[maxcriden]

So Zelda fans, what kind of NPCs are you hoping to see in the game?

Something a bit more whimsical like in Wind Waker or Link's Awakening?

Unusual new races like in Minish Cap and Oracle of Ages?

Perhaps new, talking Animal Buddies?

 

[ReyVGM]

I just hope they minimize the amount of squeaking, high-pitched, and piercing sounds some NPC's make when you talk to them.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Ugh!
This a very shortsighted way of approaching how different people think and feel.
I have no idea why players like you who favor free-roaming exploration act as though it's not possible for other players to feel as though they discovered something even when it's mandatory.
I mentioned it in the Mario thread, but a lot of my feelings of discovery/mystery/adventure comes from interacting with the world and creating dynamics, simply running around large stretches of empty land doesn't do a lot for me. It actually kind of makes everything a lot more tedious than it should be.
When I landed in Lanayru Mines and saw that big wide-shot of the dessert filled with large ancient statues I was excited to explore and interact with it, and that's exactly what I did; it didn't matter that I had to be there because I was excited to be there and curious about what was ahead of me.
I discovered the timeshift stones, I discovered that they have the power to look into the past, I discovered an ancient mining robot civilization, I discovered a vast dessert, I discovered large quicksand rivers, I discovered Lanayru dragon flies, I discovered ancient pathways beneath the quick sand, I discovered abandoned dilapidated mining facilities, and I discovered the Gate of Time.
I felt as though I had a lot of agency in that game, and I didn't need it to be free-roaming in order for me to feel this way.
Open your mind a little and try to understand that free roaming gameplay is not the only way to create a diverse emotional palette embedded with feelings of agency and discovery.

This should be posted everytime somebody whines about the lack of exploration in SS and other Zelda games. It perfectly encapsulates my experience with SS.

 

[Mango The Magician]

So Zelda fans, what kind of NPCs are you hoping to see in the game?

Something a bit more whimsical like in Wind Waker or Link's Awakening?



Unusual new races like in Minish Cap and Oracle of Ages?



Perhaps new, talking Animal Buddies?

I'd like a mix of new npcs and traditional races. Basically, Hylians, Gorons, Zoras, maybe one or two Sheikah, and some new stuff. As for animal buddies, I think Epona is enough, I do want a flying mount though, but I'd prefer that it's an item or non-animal based vehicle than another animal.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

So Zelda fans, what kind of NPCs are you hoping to see in the game?

Something a bit more whimsical like in Wind Waker or Link's Awakening?



Unusual new races like in Minish Cap and Oracle of Ages?



Perhaps new, talking Animal Buddies?

Hahaha
Sure, I'd like it all!
Though tbqh, I'm not expecting them to skimp on awesome NPCs in Zelda U.
Almost every Zelda game ever features NPCs who fit into the categories you've mentioned.
For example
Skyward Sword had unusual new races
Kiwi (The kiwi bird-esque natives of the forest)
Mogma (The greedy treasure hunting Fonzie-esque mole people of Eldin.)
Ancient Mining Robots (The ancient robotic civilization of miners and seafarers)
Parella (The half sea horse half jellyfish fairy-like natives of Lake Floria)

Unusual Whimsical NPCs
Batreaux (Skyloft's friendly neighborhood monster)
Peater (Bamboo island warrior with the pot belly who came with that sweet East Asian-esque song)
Luv and Bertie (The big assertive potion-selling lady, and her tiny soft-spoken potion mixing husband.)
Rupin (I was in love with this guy from the first time I laid my eyes upon the ridiculous fake smile)

I guess the only thing it didn't have is talking animal mounts. lol
...the Oracle games seem weirder than usual, I need to get around to playing them one of these days.

Anyways, I love Zelda so much for being non-standard from a thematic perspective; the day I see Tolkien-esque dwarves or dark-elves in Zelda is the day I know somebody who doesn't get it is in charge of the franchise.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Hahaha
Sure, I'd like it all!
Though tbqh, I'm not expecting them to skimp on the NPCs.
Almost every Zelda game ever features NPCs who fit into the categories you've mentioned.
For example
Skyward Sword had unusual new races
Kiwi (The kiwi bird-esque natives of the forest)
Mogma (The greedy treasure hunting Fonzie-esque mole people of Eldin.)
Ancient Mining Robots (The ancient robotic civilization of miners and seafarers)
Parella (The half sea horse half jellyfish fairy-like natives of Lake Floria)

Unusual Whimsical NPCs
Batreaux (Skyloft's friendly neighborhood monster)
Peater (Bamboo island warrior with the pot belly who came with that sweet East Asian-esque song)
Luv and Bertie (The big assertive potion-selling lady, and her tiny soft-spoken potion mixing husband.)
Rupin (I was in love with this guy from the first time I laid my eyes upon the ridiculous fake smile)

I guess the only thing it didn't have is talking animal mounts. lol
...the Oracle games seem weirder than usual, I need to get around to playing them one of these days.

Anyways, I love Zelda so much for being non-standard from a thematic perspective; the day I see Tolkien-esque dwarves or dark-elves in Zelda is the day I know somebody who doesn't get it is in charge of the franchise.

When I first got in the bamboo room and heard that soon i just let it sit for like 30 mins too damn good

 

[TheMoon]

What's there to read? You check all the exposed caves for NPC hints, Rupees, shops, and dungeons; burn suspicious trees and walls that look like they could house secret caves; and follow NPC clues to some of the tougher dungeons. Maybe you could say its areas aren't very distinct and the game is therefore visually confusing, but no one is asking for a world that's as limited visually as LoZ's.

Just wanna point out that there are no "suspicious" tree or "walls that look like they could house secret caves." There are just trees and walls. All 100% identical. While later games made it too obvious to find bombable walls, LOZ was just a terrible timewaster in that regard.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Just wanna point out that there are no "suspicious" tree or "walls that look like they could house secret caves." There are just trees and walls. All 100% identical. While later games made it too obvious to find bombable walls, LOZ was just a terrible timewaster in that regard.

Zelda 1 is a master class in bad conveyance.


Edit:

When I first got in the bamboo room and heard that soon i just let it sit for like 30 mins too damn good

Hahaha
Me too!
So good.

 

[maxcriden]

Hahaha
Sure, I'd like it all!
Though tbqh, I'm not expecting them to skimp on awesome NPCs in Zelda U.
Almost every Zelda game ever features NPCs who fit into the categories you've mentioned.
For example
Skyward Sword had unusual new races
Kiwi (The kiwi bird-esque natives of the forest)
Mogma (The greedy treasure hunting Fonzie-esque mole people of Eldin.)
Ancient Mining Robots (The ancient robotic civilization of miners and seafarers)
Parella (The half sea horse half jellyfish fairy-like natives of Lake Floria)

Unusual Whimsical NPCs
Batreaux (Skyloft's friendly neighborhood monster)
Peater (Bamboo island warrior with the pot belly who came with that sweet East Asian-esque song)
Luv and Bertie (The big assertive potion-selling lady, and her tiny soft-spoken potion mixing husband.)
Rupin (I was in love with this guy from the first time I laid my eyes upon the ridiculous fake smile)

I guess the only thing it didn't have is talking animal mounts. lol
...the Oracle games seem weirder than usual, I need to get around to playing them one of these days.

Anyways, I love Zelda so much for being non-standard from a thematic perspective; the day I see Tolkien-esque dwarves or dark-elves in Zelda is the day I know somebody who doesn't get it is in charge of the franchise.

Ah man, love that tune. Listening to it right now.

You really need to play the Oracle games. Too good, seriously.

BTW, I loved the ancient mining robots. Especially Scrapper. Really cute and hilarious.

Also, is it the general consensus that the Kikwi and Parella are the predecessors/ancestors of the Kokiri and Zora respectively?

 

[The Boat]

I don't think Link needs to control as slow and clunky as the character in Dark Souls. Adjusting to the slowness of the character/his sword swing/roll is part of the intense difficulty of the game. Zelda doesn't need that. Link can keep his speed, but the player should be punished for wildly swinging their sword at an opponent, or holding up their shield for too long and absorbing a bunch of attacks, or rolling/backflipping too much. Stamina meter accomplishes that.



I love the combat in Zelda II, but I'm not sure how you can realistically translate that into 3D Zelda.

You are punished for swinging wildly in SS, not only are you supposed to swing methodically when the enemy has his guard up due to tech reasons (and logical ones, a person couldn't possibly swing a sword as fast as you swing a light, small plastic thing), hitting a shield will leave you open for an attack, or in the case of the lanaryu bokoblins, you get electrified. The shields also have durability, so you can't use them blindly, except for the Hylian shield that you can only get near the end of the game.

It sort of seems as though exploration is a very limited term when it's in use by both enthusiast and game developers.
As a dynamic it's often boiled down to "Running around looking for things to do in a big open environment with limited-restrictions and limited direction.", which in and of itself could be a specific way to drive players to explore.
But when it's described as the only way for the player to explore, the only way to create an emotional palette based on feelings of adventure/discovery/curiosity/mystery that mindset becomes a huge problem for the direction of the medium (imo)
Specifically because I strongly feel like I'm exploring in lots of great linear games due to the fact that I'm often interacting with the level mechanics and creating dynamics through my own free-will. I also rarely know what's gonna happen, and that's a big deal.
I didn't know that there would be a civilization of mining robots at Lanayru, I didn't know that there would be mine-carts, I didn't know that timeshift stones existed, I didn't know I'd be traveling back in time, I didn't know that there would be hermit crab monsters, I didn't know that you could use hermit crab monster shells to travel across quick sand rivers, and I didn't know that the robots had set up numerous intricate factories and facilities within the desert's boarders.
All I really knew was that Lanayru was once green, and Zelda was somewhere around thee area...that's about it.

Hear, hear.

 

[NathanS]

Ugh!

However, combat isn't the main course on a Zelda plate. Combat in Zelda exists as a difference in kind, it's just there to spice up the experience and create an interest curve

I REALLY don't get where get this other then having the world's thickest blinders when playing Zelda. I mean in Ganondorf's Tower in OoT you have rooms with multiple Iron Knuckles, if combat was the pepper not the potato in Zelda's beef and potato stew why would they throw that at you?

I Get that you really, really, really like item uses, that even just using the whip to cross part of dungeon in the exact same why you used the whip in the last dungeon adds something to the experience for you, and yes that is a huge part of Zelda. But you seem prone to focus on it to the point that you don't even see the games putting a lot of combat about and asking you to get better at it. Skyward Sword is full of that! Yes it also has a ton of puzzles, but it does ask you to master faking out enemies and to be quick on your swings.

In my re-play through the big entries of the series, the only ones that come close to treating combat as a light seasoning is the DS ones. And I like those, but they are not the norm in terms of combat.

I like SS, I like the DS games, I'm not a “Zelda's gone downhill!” person, but I like sticking to facts. And when you put a lot of something in a game and make it harder to do successfully as you go, even if it never gets super hard, it is a main element of that game. There is not a dungeon in Zelda that doesn't have enemies to fight in most rooms, and doesn't end in a fight against a boss. Combat is a major element.

 

[crackhead_bob]

Sell me on Zelda Wii U. I think lately, Nintendo has often utilized gimmicks at the expense of core gameplay. Windwaker had that novel concept of a flooded Hyrule, leaving scattered islands to explore. That's not my Zelda. I liked Ocarina of Time because you didn't have the damn horse encroaching upon the core fundamentals. And open world Zelda sounds cool, but look at Arkham City. That overworld was tiny compared to the overworlds in Grand Theft Auto 3. Ocarina of Time's overworld was small compared to Wind Waker, but at least it had variety. I see alot of hype going into a game that we don't even know for sure is going to be released this year. 2015 seems premature given how little we're being shown of this game so far. I haven't enjoyed any of the Zelda games since OOT, but I do feel that Link to the Past has aged much better than OOT on the N64. I tried playing OOT on my flat screen tv and holy crap has that game aged badly -- at least visually. The jaggies and the anti-aliasing has aged that game on a level that I wasn't expecting.

 

[KooopaKid]

Sell me on Zelda Wii U. I think lately, Nintendo has often utilized gimmicks at the expense of core gameplay. Windwaker had that novel concept of a flooded Hyrule, leaving scattered islands to explore. That's not my Zelda. I liked Ocarina of Time because you didn't have the damn horse encroaching upon the core fundamentals. And open world Zelda sounds cool, but look at Arkham City. That overworld was tiny compared to the overworlds in Grand Theft Auto 3. Ocarina of Time's overworld was small compared to Wind Waker, but at least it had variety. I see alot of hype going into a game that we don't even know for sure is going to be released this year. 2015 seems premature given how little we're being shown of this game so far. I haven't enjoyed any of the Zelda games since OOT, but I do feel that Link to the Past has aged much better than OOT on the N64. I tried playing OOT on my flat screen tv and holy crap has that game aged badly -- at least visually. The jaggies and the anti-aliasing has aged that game on a level that I wasn't expecting.

It's Zelda, it's always a reason to be hyped. They rarely disappoint. If there's one series you can trust blindly, it's Zelda.
Also, OoT3D is now the definitive version to play OoT.

 

[crackhead_bob]

I didn't like Wind Waker. There was way too much emphasis on the seafaring exploration. Much to the point where I thought that Assassin's Creed IV had a better balance.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I didn't like Wind Waker. There was way too much emphasis on the seafaring exploration. Much to the point where I thought that Assassin's Creed IV had a better balance.

The fact that you're even comparing the two shows how well The Wind Waker has aged. Black Flag released 11 years later.

Zelda is different things to different people. Some like certain entries far more than others. And some people, like me, happen to love them all. It's really not hard to see why people are excited for the next Zelda game, even if you aren't.

 

[crackhead_bob]

I'm not bashing the upcoming Zelda game. I just don't know what innovations are being made in this new entry. And I'm somewhat skeptical that this game is going to see a 2015 release date.

 

[banofypie]

I'm not bashing the upcoming Zelda game. I just don't know what innovations are being made in this new entry. And I'm somewhat skeptical that this game is going to see a 2015 release date.

If it doesn't come out as the big holiday home console release then Nintendo's kind of screwed.

 

[ReyVGM]

If it doesn't come out as the big holiday home console release then Nintendo's kind of screwed.

Not really, they can just release another big title and leave Zelda for their 2016 big holiday instead.
People will complain, but the game will eventually come out, people will play it, hate it, love it, and everyone will move onto the next announcement.

 

[DizzyCrow]

Sell me on Zelda Wii U. I think lately, Nintendo has often utilized gimmicks at the expense of core gameplay. Windwaker had that novel concept of a flooded Hyrule, leaving scattered islands to explore. That's not my Zelda. I liked Ocarina of Time because you didn't have the damn horse encroaching upon the core fundamentals. And open world Zelda sounds cool, but look at Arkham City. That overworld was tiny compared to the overworlds in Grand Theft Auto 3. Ocarina of Time's overworld was small compared to Wind Waker, but at least it had variety. I see alot of hype going into a game that we don't even know for sure is going to be released this year. 2015 seems premature given how little we're being shown of this game so far. I haven't enjoyed any of the Zelda games since OOT, but I do feel that Link to the Past has aged much better than OOT on the N64. I tried playing OOT on my flat screen tv and holy crap has that game aged badly -- at least visually. The jaggies and the anti-aliasing has aged that game on a level that I wasn't expecting.

Wait, you want people sell you a game they never played, was barely shown and it's almost a year from release? Shouldn't you wait until the game is out and then do some research?