As much as people say about it, the plot is surprisingly straight forward.
So if Solid Snake and Solidus are both clones...
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As much as people say about it, the plot is surprisingly straight forward.
Stratosphere
Member
Literally NOTHING.
Tidus_Great
Banned
snake lived in Alaska and didn't watch TV.
but seriously it's pretty obvious kojima never plans his stories out which is why there are so many bad plot devices and retcons. With that said he still has amazing ideas, and MGS2 in particular was brilliant.
but seriously it's pretty obvious kojima never plans his stories out which is why there are so many bad plot devices and retcons. With that said he still has amazing ideas, and MGS2 in particular was brilliant.
Pinko Marx
Banned
AFAIK MGS2 was in planning near the end of development of MGS1. He didn't plan on MGS3 and 4 though, which, I believe, is part of the reason why 4 is such a disappointing conclusion.
John Kowalski
Banned
Yes. The vast majority of it makes sense.
Saiyan-Rox
Member
When it comes to the the "big boss" parts I've no idea what's going on especially with ground zeroes. and the patriots I'm kinda lost with especially with the AI's. IDK maybe I need to go back and reply it's been ages.
Well that comment got a lot of replies xD
Yes. Pretty much everything makes sense.
On a more serious note, Solid Snake was told he received the dominant genes while Liquid Snake received the recessive genes. This made sense: Solid Snake had dark hair, dark eyes, etc... signatures of dominant traits, while Liquid Snake had blond hair, blue eyes (interpreted, I can't recall for sure at the moment), etc...
Later it's revealled that Solid Snake was actually the inferior clone. So how then is Liquid Snake a blond if he received exclusively dominant traits?
Later it's revealled that Solid Snake was actually the inferior clone. So how then is Liquid Snake a blond if he received exclusively dominant traits?
Dick Justice
Banned
Solid Snake is not the sharpest tool in the box.
Yeah, I recall reading somewhere, Kojima said that they used the same face model for both of them, but with a modified texture.
Yeah, I recall reading somewhere, Kojima said that they used the same face model for both of them, but with a modified texture.
It does't make sense because you don't understand it. Ok.
His hair was apparently "bleached" by constant exposure to the sun.
Pinko Marx
Banned
The genes don't matter. Thats kind of the point of the game.
Smooth Operator
Member
Snake dyed his hair, he had blond hair during the briefing.
I'm fairly sure originally Snake was supposed to have blonde hair but I think that has been retconned.
Dick Justice
Banned
Goddamit, Snake was not blonde. He only cut his hair in MGS1. The "blonde Snake" thing is a result of the lighting in the briefing video of MGS1. They fixed this in The Twin Snakes.
Tidus_Great
Banned
I wish MGS4 was never made. The patriots were better left ambiguous, and liquiocelots explanation was idiotic. not to mention all the nanomachine jargon.
With a prequel like MGS3 he had an easier time writing i'd imagine because he didn't have to explain loose ends fro ma previous story and could sort of fill in the gaps of the MGS history. and it turned out great. Hopefully MGS5 follows suit.
It was just a theory because his hair looked blonde in the MGS1 briefing.
Tidus_Great
Banned
they do matter, they just don't decide everything. A person can still choose the life they want to a degree , at least that's what I think Naomi was saying at the end.
Metal Gear Solid 4 was a perfect conclusion.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I know you think so, I've seen your posts defending it.
Hey man, if you liked 4 that awesome for you. I disagree... A lot.
And I disagree with you.
A lot. =)
Again, the Snakes did not inherit a single gene from EVA. She was only the surrogate mother.
That's his surrogate Mom. His "real mom" was Japanese.
Yeah that's why 3 was a prequel. He never wanted to go past 2 in the timeline.
What have you done?
Yes he is clearly blonde in the first image. You can't look at that and say that he has dark hair. It's either an inconsistency/retcon. That second image is from twin snakes which came out much later when its established that he has dark hair.Goddamit, Snake was not blonde. He only cut his hair in MGS1. The "blonde Snake" thing is a result of the lighting in the briefing video of MGS1. They fixed this in The Twin Snakes.
bleh i tried lol, but i wonder of BB had blonde hair genes at all.
Even then, none of the Japanese woman's DNA would have been passed on to the clones.
Dick Justice
Banned
It's the strong lighting. Same thing happened with Ground Zeroes, where everyone though Big Boss had grey hair.
It's the strong lighting. Same thing happened with Ground Zeroes, where everyone though Big Boss had grey hair.
I actually wished he had graying hair on The Phantom Pain.... =(
There's probably a little bit in there since "the blood of the east flows in his veins". Not too much though since he his a clone.
Dick Justice
Banned
Whoops double post.
He's under harsh lighting in an interrogation atmosphere.
You're not going to claim this guy's hair is white, are you?
His hair doesn't even look white tbhHe's under harsh lighting in an interrogation atmosphere.
You're not going to claim this guy's hair is white, are you?
That's slightly the point. In the real world and in full context of the shot, you understand that it's a light source changing the top of the hair. Art may or may not capture that.
And give me some slack; you try googling "interrogation lighting"/"harsh lighting" photos and find a better example.
This superior/dominant inferior/recessive genes thing is just metaphoric. Do not even try to find a scientific, correct explanation. The point of MGS1 was simply to prove that genes do not determine people's fate. Actually, one of the theme of the entire saga is that a person's choices are the only thing that matters, see the lifes of Big Boss and his sons: they share most of the genetic code but they are very different persons. So similar and still so different.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Understanding Ground Zeroes' story is very dependent on you having played Peace Walker. it's essentially an interlude between Peace Walker and Phantom Pain.
As for the Patriots: In the early 20th century a group of individuals from the US, China, and Russia created a powerful secret organization known as the Philosophers. This was one of the driving forces behind the Allies during World War 2 in their conflict against the Axis powers of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. The Philosophers collected a large sum of money which, as the original members started to die off, was lost. Only one person knew where the money went, and that was Volgin's father who passed the information onto his son.
In MGS3, you learn that America secured the Legacy from Volgin. It creates its own US-centric version of the Philosophers known as the Patriots. This was founded by Major Zero, Paramedic, Sigint, Big Boss, Eva, and Ocelot. Their goal was to preserve world order and honor the Boss' world view of a globalized, united society (an idea she conceived during her time in outer space when she saw the planet as one rather than divided by national borders) similar to how the Philosophers united the Allies. However, a rift grew between Zero and Big Boss based on their different interpretations of the Boss' will. Zero saw their goal of order was only achievable by exercising absolute control over the population, whereas Big Boss wanted a world where soldiers would never be used like they were before and were instead valued. So Big Boss leaves the Patriots and goes on to form various mercenary organizations over the decades, including FOXHOUND (which started out as a sort of pseudo mercenary task force but later became your standard secret government military unit), MSF (which gets destroyed in GZ), and Diamond Dogs (MGSV).
Zero meanwhile continues to lead the Patriots. As he gets older, he realizes he must leave a successor to carry out his will in his place. Instead of passing that duty on to humans, the Patriots create a set of AIs based off experimental research done in Peace Walker by a character known as Strangelove. The person most directly responsible for the creation of these AIs is Emma Emmerich. These AIs filter information over the internet and can even give orders to various agencies and individuals through email. Nobody realizes that it's an AI doing this, of course, and even people who know the Patriots exist like Solidus don't realize they are AIs at this point.
One of the four main AIs is called GW which is housed inside Arsenal Gear. In MGS2, GW pretends to be Colonel Campbell and gives Raiden orders for the whole game. It does this as part of a test for the AIs in a social experiment to see if they can really have society fulfill their wishes if they create the right context for them. In MGS2's case, the will was to do something analogous to Solid Snake in MGS1 a la beating the bad guys and destroying Metal Gear and the context was a recreation of MGS1's events. Additionally, in order to prevent Solidus from getting important information on the Patriots from GW (you can see what they don't want you to know by looking at the filter), they manipulate Emma and Raiden into inserting a worm that destroys GW. It doesn't happen immediately, however, so for a short period of time near the end of MGS2 you end up talking to a broken, glitched out GW until it finally crashes completely at the end of the MG RAY boss fight. Even though GW is largely destroyed (you later find out in MGS4 there are remnants which Oceliquid uses to seize the System), another AI talks to Raiden and tells him everything posted above minus the Philosopher stuff which MGS3 elaborated on. The test is a success and the AIs go on to create a proxy war economy where humanity is controlled and order reigns (although this of course wasn't what the Boss wanted but by this point Zero is over 100 years old and has no control over his bowel movements much less the AIs)
edit: Oh and I forgot to mention, another reason Big Boss leaves the Patriots is because Zero clones him. He was obsessed with making Big Boss a symbol. This is covered in Act 3 of MGS4.
Eh, they were genetically engineered, could be talking about other genes than the ones that decide hair/eyecolour... but yeah Kojima probably got it wrong.
OR! It was the plan all along, Liquid only got recessive genes that gave him blonde hair and blue eyes, to make him believe it. It was part of the social experiement, the ultimate trial of what's more important, nature or nurture?
Didn't Liquid think that Solid got "all the dominant genes" while he got "all the recessive"? Didn't sound like he was limiting his statement.
Kojima just interpreted dominant as "good/strong" and recessive as "flawed/weak."
I edited my post a bit. And yeah, what Liquid thought was what was more important to the experiment.
But yeah Kojima probably just got it wrong
Gnome Scat
Member
Well in MG2 Big Boss would've looked like an older Venom Snake versus exactly like a fresh perfect clone so maybe that's why.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Remind me what Big Boss was trying to do in MG1 & 2, and was he trying to rebel against The Patriots in doing so? Was it The Patriots that sent Snake on his mission in the MG series?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yes, MG1 and 2 was essentially the conflict between Zero (whose interests in taking down Big Boss are represented out there on the field by Solid Snake) and Big Boss. You see this conflict echoed in MGS1 between Liquid Snake who tries to create an Outer Heaven of his own and Solid Snake and later on between Solidus who specifically opposes the Patriots and Raiden. In MGS4 Big Boss refers to this phenomenon as the AIs following Norms. A deliberate pattern.
It was Big Boss who actually sent Solid Snake on his mission in MG1, luring him into a trap. He was commander of FOXHOUND at the time, so it's assumed he formed some temporary truce with Zero or at least did it to buy him time while he secretly created Outer Heaven.
Yes, Big Boss was trying to rebel against The Patriots, and at the same time create a world full of war, conflict and chaos where warriors would always have a place. Anarchy and strife, instead of the "order" and "peace" that The Patriots created.
Solid Snake was not sent by The Patriots the first time. He was sent by Big Boss himself, in order to send false information and deceive the American government while buying time for his schemes to complete. He believed that Solid Snake, being a rookie, would fail his mission being given enough misinformation and lies.
The next time, the Zanzibar incident, Solid Snake was sent by Roy Campbell from FOXHOUND, probably under orders from The Patriots themselves.
He claimed he was Solid Snake and I don't think Solidus every revealed to the public he was behind the Big Shell incident.