curlyfriski
Banned
Sounds like a gaffer.
Top Islamic authority calls for crucifying and chopping the limbs off executioners.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I saw a chart yesterday that listed the islamic countries where people were still crucified.I can't find it, but it was horrible. It still happens in countries like Iran and Iraq.
Always-honest
Banned
What they did was absolutely horrible.
Let's do something equally horrible to them.
Let's do something equally horrible to them.
the source material is there... if people followed the laws in the bible it would be Inquisition all over again too. People working on the sabbath (sunday)? Death!!! And this shit in the 10 commandments... in the top 10 list lol
We could probably use the same cheat code as the Jews do for working on the sabbath: a special wire around each town. I'm more worried about the cotton and silk.
What would you suggest for a group that insists on burning an individual alive as a show of power? Let them reflect on their actions in jail all their life?
1) This is about Islam and not any other religion, so your red herring is unacceptable.
2) All Muslims still believe the Qur'an as the literal word of Allah, and many want its law (sharia law) implemented in their governments despite the severe consequences. No concept of separation between state and religion exists in Islam; in fact, the Qur'an itself is full of government-wide rulings that must be enforced.
3) When Islam gets its own age of enlightenment, then we would not be argue about the source anymore. Sadly, with the influence of sneaky Islamic apologists on liberal media, we will not see that any time soon. The media is attacking people like Sam Harris and Ayaan Ali instead of giving them a bigger platform. Hell, even the offensive drawings were not published in lots of outlets.
If you think about the 10 commandments.... its really creep.
Don't believe in specific god? Death!
Adultery? Both Death!
Sabbath? Death!
Being bad to parents? Death!
They are using words wrote in a piece of paper to justify doing this shit. I am just point out that the same WAS done before... the history is just repeating itself
Interceptor
Banned
The Quran is not "misinterpreted" either.
Crucifixion and chopped-off limbs are actually a metaphor.
For hugs and kisses.
kurisu_1974
Banned
You'd almost think it's super easy to annoy you guys.
The bible is just plain weird.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Who is "him" here? The husband or the assailant? They could have written this clearer considering we're meant to chop a woman's hand off.
Bible is purposely written with ambiguity this way so you can apply the law as it better fits you.
I may or may not be kidding.
Like many in this thread I'm outraged at the death penalty for mixing cotton and silk.
On topic, religious lunacy is in no way confined to Islam. It's just that Islamic preachers have loud voices that the West loves to help broadcast.
"Oh look, hundreds of thousands of Muslims getting on with their lives. Let's report this!"
"That won't fly, chief. Ratings baby! Find me an angry one NOW!"
"Look a dude with an eyepatch and a hooked arm!"
"This is gonna get us PROMOTED, baby!"
On topic, religious lunacy is in no way confined to Islam. It's just that Islamic preachers have loud voices that the West loves to help broadcast.
"Oh look, hundreds of thousands of Muslims getting on with their lives. Let's report this!"
"That won't fly, chief. Ratings baby! Find me an angry one NOW!"
"Look a dude with an eyepatch and a hooked arm!"
"This is gonna get us PROMOTED, baby!"
It also may or may not be a metaphor.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Fucking Ghandi, man.
John Kowalski
Banned
what a mean thing to say
Anyone else think this is one step away from calling people "n*gger-lovers"? Also the wholesale blaming of all Muslims everywhere for a statement by extremists.
Maninthemirror
Banned
people will come and say no no we are blaming faith not the people. However if the Muslims use Islam personally as their set of beliefs around the world and make Islam as a personal identification, and someone say Islam Apologists you are, well, directly, saying saying the way you live your life is wrong and blame the way of life, of western muslims also mind you (who have lived here for 100 years). But I should add such people have 1. either a hate for religion and will never accept anything but negativity as a broad spectrum about religions with a God 2. They have only been exposed to fundamentalist views of Islam, so if a fundamentalist gets brainwashed by fundamentalist verses, you cannot expect non-Muslims to not fall for the same trap
The only thing you can do at this point is educate the people who dislike Islam and educate those who like the fundamentalist version of Islam to go back to its origins.
Anyone from those 2 kinds of folks above will circulate their argument around the justification based on their views which have been built up with the reasonings mentioned. from my position, I would be in the same position of circulating my argument around my view of things so what is the best course. Educate yourself and think reasonably without hate. Anyone who thinks without hate will not hate the way of life of people not harming them
So the supposed moderates are also extremists?
I blame the Koran. The shit in it is stupid.
Poodlestrike
Banned
After hearing about some of the stuff they might be up to regarding the children of their enemies in the region, I can get behind this.
Kinda poisoning the well there huh?
I dont think there is anything apologetic about recognizing that a mix of most or all of: political oppression, economic malaise, brutal authoritarian rule, fear and/or lack of education often breeds extreme behavior, ignorance, hate and pushes people to support extreme ideas and solutions. This we have seen throughout history that under those circumstances people will rally around extreme ideologies(Marxist/Leninism, Nazism, religious extremism etc.). That's not to exonerate islam as it is a brutal text and organized religion itself is an archaic holdover from more primitive times that has and continues to pollute critical thinking and progress. Maybe that's not the argument you are speaking of in your dismissal of liberals but it's the argument I would make.
So when guys like Sam Harris dumb down things like the Israeli/Palestenian conflict and inject poorly researched assertions and assumptions to frame things in a certain way to fit preconceived notions, it begins to become clear that Harris actually has a very superficial understanding of things in the Middle East and sees things solely through his prism of anti-religion. Afterall, he isn't a history scholar or a political scientist, he's a philosopher and cognitive neuroscientist. So I am not going to look to him when it comes to understanding the culture, history, politics and influences that drive specific regional areas of the Middle East.
i'd cap this all off with the point that if we are looking to find solutions to problems of extremism in the Muslim(and to a lesser extent Christian and Jewish) world - something guys like Harris are short on - we would do best acknowledging the influencing factor and addressing the points I listed above as a starting point. Things that are common in terms of the foundation for which most extremist behavior and beliefs arise regardless of the rallying point they end up gravitating toward.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
"no it doesnt... cuz you'll still have one guy with one eye! hows anyone going to get his eye if everyone else is blind!"
MarkMclovin
Member
So cut a few peoples heads off, thats ok.
Chuck a few people off a tall building, then stone them if they survived, thats ok.
Burying people and kids alive, thats ok.
Other mass excecutions, they're ok too.
Burn 1 guy alive? THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS, KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL!!!
Chuck a few people off a tall building, then stone them if they survived, thats ok.
Burying people and kids alive, thats ok.
Other mass excecutions, they're ok too.
Burn 1 guy alive? THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS, KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL!!!
Lone Wolf
Member
I think you are the one reaching here, by a lot.
Yeah but only slightly lesser right? All those Judeo-Christian terrorists beheading and burning
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
my guess is that based on your poor attempt to turn this into a pissing match to make sure I acknowledge that the Muslim world is seeing more extremism right now(which I acknowledgedand) and ignored the entiriety of my post that you aren't worth wasting anymore time on. Goodbye.
haha, what?
Messofanego
Banned
The solutions to fix the corruption, poor education, totalitarian rule, and economy, has to come from those countries and their people themselves, is how I see it. The Arab spring was the first step to that.
Cause look what happened when Russia and America tried to bring democracy to Afghanistan and other countries. They didn't realise the already continuing complex civil conflicts so got right into the middle of that and lost. When they did leave thinking they'd sorted out the police or the infrastructure at least, they realised they were supporting the corrupt powers who took aid like $10 million a day in Afghanistan that got spent on luxury properties in Dubai. So foreign ignorant intervention is not going to work.
I agree. But at the same time it will be hard for those solutions to arise when we are actively propping up the status quo in many of these areas. How many examples can we point to of authoritarian regimes that we aid and defend that have turned around and fanned the flames of extremism? That has then in turn made us a target of disgruntled middle easterners who see us as a cause of their strife?
America would do itself a ton of favors by pushing itself even harder to find roads of alternative energy to help untie the necessary relationships with evil we have to endure due to resource needs. That would be one way. A way that would at least allow America - the sole hegemony - to be a more honest agent in terms of our hegemonic powers.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm pretty sure you follow this sheikhs every word and are more than credible enough to make these claims. Am I right?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
But we SHOULD single out Islam. Not because its book is worse (they all have so much terrible shit in them), but because of the awful things leaders of that religion are publicly condoning and calling for. Fuck all that, fuck those people. You rarely see followers of other religions acting in such medieval ways these days. So yes, Islam needs to be singled out and modernized, like Christianity was once (eh, sort of - Christianity is still pretty bad much of the time, just not quite in the same barbaric way).
Baki
Member
...Do you think advocating bombing them is any less of a "humane" way to die. lol
Regardless, this just another guy with another opinion.
You mean almost like this...
..Including bullshit unsubstantiated statement like the one I just bolded.
Lone Wolf
Member
Your link sucks, and has barely any examples, and nothing compared to the daily atrocities committed in the name of Islam. Also, most of your post was arguing points that no one here made. You admitted that yourself. Keep fighting the good fight though.
m_shortpants
Member
There are people on GAF who will say "bomb them all" in every ISIS thread, but are calling out this sheikhs statement as more barbaric. I think there's a difference between saying you feel something should happen and actually doing it...
like the US's indiscriminate drone policy, detention and torture of prisoners without trial, and support for tyrannical leaders, for example
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Man, Islam is just so clearly to blame for all of the problems in the Middle East. I don't understand why we don't just try and eliminate Islam entirely. I mean, take a look at these verses:
This is absolutely horrific, and we should... oops, slight mistake, these are all from the Bible. Hmm. Right. Uh, that pesky Islam, where was I?
Yes, well, it's clearly only Islam that motivates people to terrorism. If you just take a look at the motivations of pretty much every terrorist movement of the modern era, you'll see they're all Muslims.
- The Naxalites insurgency in India has been responsible for 193 deaths in India last year alone, over half the death toll attributable to terrorism.
- And look at the Rhakine insurgency movement, busy perpetrating a massacre of the ethnic Rohingya people in Burma.
- Plus there's Allah's Resistance Army, which has been responsible for using child soldiers, rape as a weapon of war, massacres, abductions, mutilations, and forced religious comversions.
That alone should be enough evidence that... oh. You mean that those groups are explicitly Communist, Buddhist, and Christian respectively? Well, uh. That doesn't undermine my case, it is definitely still Islam's fault. Even if Islam is comparatively no worse in scripture than other major religions and not the only ideological motivation for terrorism, it still has to be the problem because why else would people become terrorists? It isn't like you see it happen in upstanding Christian countries that uphold Western values - excluding the IRA of course, and the ETA, and Baader-Meinhof, and all those other ones.
I mean, there can't possibly be any other causal factors. The problem is definitely that people take certain elements of Islamic scripts in certain ways, with absolutely no other reason to do so despite the vast flexibility provided by most hadiths. After all:
- Middle Eastern countries don't feature particular oppressed ethnic or religious minority groups, after all they're perfect nation-states, not poorly stitched together cock-ups by the British, French and American powers toward the end of the colonial era. These people have had hundreds of years to ge their act together!
- And there's absolutely no ruthless dictators propped up by Western military donations that use a vast and oppressive security apparatus, right? All the leaders of these countries are clearly consensually established with a broad legitimacy and really are definitely chosen by the people as an act of self-determination and not American puppets.
- There's not any endemic poverty, either, that means that unemployment rates are crippingly high even in areas which are part of the ethnic or religious elite. There's definitely no long-standing class divide dating back to the British and French deliberately trying to create socio-economic gaps between the shayks and the tribesmen to secure their rule. No, people are well-provided for and have little incentive to turn to terrorism.
So, really, Islam must be the key motivator and not just a post hoc justification because no other factors exist, and... oh. You're saying that all of these things are true? Well, uh. I mean. Hmm. Okay, but, one last argument, right, because I'm definitely still right about this "let's focus on Islam" thing.
Most of the factors that apparently exist are endemic and structural, right? They're not easy to fix. Islam, though, we can definitely fix that up. Focusing all of our disgust at Islam will have several postitive effects:
- People have no previously established reason to dislike the West, because the West has never interfered with the area and overthrown popular, elected governments, so why would they dislike us? We're clearly close friends to them and they've value our opinion when we focus all our media attempts on how shitty Islam is.
- People don't really have that much attachment to Islam, either. I mean, it's barely been in the region that long, it's not like there is a 1,500 year legacy of Islam being a presence in the Arabic way of life in an area which tends to conservatism due to the lack of educational opportunities. Definitely, of all the things to focus on, Islam is the easiest to fix because changing a belief system which has motivated people for 1,500 years is easier than attempting aid and development packages.
- People really like it when you insult things which are a close part of their moral system and the way they identify you, so logically if we keep calling out Islam, then people will never become terrorists because they feel their way of life is under threat.
So, really, QED, it's all Islam's fault and Islam is clearly the thing we need to be hating on. They're absolutely barbaric, and kill innocent people in absolutely inhumane ways, so really, we should bomb that shit out of everyone with nukes, because they definitely hide out in areas where there are no innocent communities trapped near by.
What's that you say?
...etc.
This is absolutely horrific, and we should... oops, slight mistake, these are all from the Bible. Hmm. Right. Uh, that pesky Islam, where was I?
Yes, well, it's clearly only Islam that motivates people to terrorism. If you just take a look at the motivations of pretty much every terrorist movement of the modern era, you'll see they're all Muslims.
- The Naxalites insurgency in India has been responsible for 193 deaths in India last year alone, over half the death toll attributable to terrorism.
- And look at the Rhakine insurgency movement, busy perpetrating a massacre of the ethnic Rohingya people in Burma.
- Plus there's Allah's Resistance Army, which has been responsible for using child soldiers, rape as a weapon of war, massacres, abductions, mutilations, and forced religious comversions.
That alone should be enough evidence that... oh. You mean that those groups are explicitly Communist, Buddhist, and Christian respectively? Well, uh. That doesn't undermine my case, it is definitely still Islam's fault. Even if Islam is comparatively no worse in scripture than other major religions and not the only ideological motivation for terrorism, it still has to be the problem because why else would people become terrorists? It isn't like you see it happen in upstanding Christian countries that uphold Western values - excluding the IRA of course, and the ETA, and Baader-Meinhof, and all those other ones.
I mean, there can't possibly be any other causal factors. The problem is definitely that people take certain elements of Islamic scripts in certain ways, with absolutely no other reason to do so despite the vast flexibility provided by most hadiths. After all:
- Middle Eastern countries don't feature particular oppressed ethnic or religious minority groups, after all they're perfect nation-states, not poorly stitched together cock-ups by the British, French and American powers toward the end of the colonial era. These people have had hundreds of years to ge their act together!
- And there's absolutely no ruthless dictators propped up by Western military donations that use a vast and oppressive security apparatus, right? All the leaders of these countries are clearly consensually established with a broad legitimacy and really are definitely chosen by the people as an act of self-determination and not American puppets.
- There's not any endemic poverty, either, that means that unemployment rates are crippingly high even in areas which are part of the ethnic or religious elite. There's definitely no long-standing class divide dating back to the British and French deliberately trying to create socio-economic gaps between the shayks and the tribesmen to secure their rule. No, people are well-provided for and have little incentive to turn to terrorism.
So, really, Islam must be the key motivator and not just a post hoc justification because no other factors exist, and... oh. You're saying that all of these things are true? Well, uh. I mean. Hmm. Okay, but, one last argument, right, because I'm definitely still right about this "let's focus on Islam" thing.
Most of the factors that apparently exist are endemic and structural, right? They're not easy to fix. Islam, though, we can definitely fix that up. Focusing all of our disgust at Islam will have several postitive effects:
- People have no previously established reason to dislike the West, because the West has never interfered with the area and overthrown popular, elected governments, so why would they dislike us? We're clearly close friends to them and they've value our opinion when we focus all our media attempts on how shitty Islam is.
- People don't really have that much attachment to Islam, either. I mean, it's barely been in the region that long, it's not like there is a 1,500 year legacy of Islam being a presence in the Arabic way of life in an area which tends to conservatism due to the lack of educational opportunities. Definitely, of all the things to focus on, Islam is the easiest to fix because changing a belief system which has motivated people for 1,500 years is easier than attempting aid and development packages.
- People really like it when you insult things which are a close part of their moral system and the way they identify you, so logically if we keep calling out Islam, then people will never become terrorists because they feel their way of life is under threat.
So, really, QED, it's all Islam's fault and Islam is clearly the thing we need to be hating on. They're absolutely barbaric, and kill innocent people in absolutely inhumane ways, so really, we should bomb that shit out of everyone with nukes, because they definitely hide out in areas where there are no innocent communities trapped near by.
What's that you say?
...etc.
I disagree with him. I think nuking them would be more brutal and more suitable.
Seriously, the amount of murder and other atrocities these monsters have done means there cannot possibly be any room for redemption. Get rid of them before they can continue.
Edit: ok nuking them wouldn't be a good idea but maybe just targetted drone strikes will suffice.
Seriously, the amount of murder and other atrocities these monsters have done means there cannot possibly be any room for redemption. Get rid of them before they can continue.
Edit: ok nuking them wouldn't be a good idea but maybe just targetted drone strikes will suffice.
You are absolutely right, however, in this case, we're comparing the actions of the followers versus the text they adhere to. In one situation, generally speaking, Christians and Jews don't follow the old testament to a tee and kill people for wearing different clothes. However, there are muslims out there that follow the Quran to the degree that it's OK to torture people, take revenge, stone women, kill liars, etc. etc. It's not a question of "which religious text is less crazy" it's a question of "which group of religious followers is more likely to blindly follow their religious text, even if it's morally abhorrent".
Of course, there are people from every religion that follow their doctrine to such a radical degree. These are called extremists. It just seems to a lot of people that there are far more muslim extremists out there today than any other religion.
Do you understand the difference between bleeding out on a cross and being blown to shreds by a shell?
Bombing is much more humane than crucifixion, if you are looking for maximum brutality, I say you should side with the cleric to satisfy your bloodlust.
RustyNails
Member
His link does not suck... Islamic terrorism is at it's peak today (today being the key word here), whereas every other terrorism is relatively low. So the perspective of judging is being tainted through today's glasses. If you go back 40, 50, 60 years, there were no such groups as ISIS, Al Qaida, Taliban, Boko Haram, MILF, Hamas or Hizballah. Neither were wanna be 2 bit terrorists like Ansar shariah, TTP, Nusra Front, and various other pro violence Tabhleegi outfits in Asia. So would it be pertinant to examine the rise of Islamic terrorism while at the same time examining the reasons that led to these innumerable groups popping up? Yes. If all it needs for us to condemn Islam and Muslims in a blanket fashion is the bad fortune to be living during it's peak, then its not an objective assessment. We have all seen the pictures of cosmopolitan Kabul and Tehran from the 50's and 60's. Speaking of which, if we were alive during the 60s, we'd be constantly hearing about Jewish Terrorism in lieu of Jewish Underground's bombing campaigns in ME. Few decades earlier we'd be hearing about Christian Terrorism in lieu of Troubles/Ireland. All this is, is a product of time, history, geopolitics and economics. Of course Religion plays a big role. HRW came out with a study recently that said ISIS and various other terrorists like it are the result of lack of stability, security, law and order in Iraq especially with regards to our bungled handling of Iraq democracy. We screwed the pooch when it came to forming a coherant, confessionalism form of government and instead under our watchful eyes, Saddam's default target group was given the reins to power. Its all a complete sordid mess from top to bottom.
Oh ok, then I side with him instead. Sorry for misunderstanding the degree of pain.
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