Riposte
Member
Is there any way to measure this influence with statistics? Should, for example, we expect a drop in women enrolled in game development or perhaps IT/CS studies?
EDIT: Oh yeah, I heard of that guy before lol.
"I have...letters from dozens of women who've abandoned their dream" (Brianna Wu)
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Is there any way to measure this influence with statistics? Should, for example, we expect a drop in women enrolled in game development or perhaps IT/CS studies?
EDIT: Oh yeah, I heard of that guy before lol.
GamerGate is pretty easy to understand.
There are a group of people who feel that lately a lot of other people have been saying that the things that they enjoy are wrong and bad and that they are wrong and bad for enjoying them and that no more of these things they enjoy should ever be made. Instead of responding to this in a mature, reasonable fashion, they have resorted to aggressively defending their interests by threatening and harassing those they feel are trying to take what they like away.
Now, from what I understand their opposition is generally trying to expand gaming to be more representative of those who partake of it, not change or remove parts of it (though there are certainly people who do want to, they are likely not in the majority and they do not restrict their aggression to such people anyway). Because generally such people identify as feminists and generally many feminists are females, proponents of GamerGate seem to just be lumping all females into the category "enemy", thereby creating a hostile environment in the hopes that no one will be left to take away their toys.
Oh, and there are probably a bunch of general misogynists who are taking advantage of this as well.
Did I miss anything?
There are a group of people who feel that lately a lot of other people have been saying that the things that they enjoy are wrong and bad and that they are wrong and bad for enjoying them and that no more of these things they enjoy should ever be made. Instead of responding to this in a mature, reasonable fashion, they have resorted to aggressively defending their interests by threatening and harassing those they feel are trying to take what they like away.
Now, from what I understand their opposition is generally trying to expand gaming to be more representative of those who partake of it, not change or remove parts of it (though there are certainly people who do want to, they are likely not in the majority and they do not restrict their aggression to such people anyway). Because generally such people identify as feminists and generally many feminists are females, proponents of GamerGate seem to just be lumping all females into the category "enemy", thereby creating a hostile environment in the hopes that no one will be left to take away their toys.
Oh, and there are probably a bunch of general misogynists who are taking advantage of this as well.
Did I miss anything?
Wow I watched the video of the guy where he flipped his mom's Prius.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sadly, it's not that funny cos either this guy is the perfect troll/comedien, or more likely he literally is a fucking insane person who WILL end up killing somebody. The guy needs help, and then some.
Sadly the GamerGate thing was clearly something he's latched onto and some of the idiots who are also into GG are encouraging his erratic mental behaviour. Shame on them for either being as equally lost or just downright nasty encouraging someone who's on a path to committing a massacre when he finally goes full ape shit crazy one day.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sadly, it's not that funny cos either this guy is the perfect troll/comedien, or more likely he literally is a fucking insane person who WILL end up killing somebody. The guy needs help, and then some.
Sadly the GamerGate thing was clearly something he's latched onto and some of the idiots who are also into GG are encouraging his erratic mental behaviour. Shame on them for either being as equally lost or just downright nasty encouraging someone who's on a path to committing a massacre when he finally goes full ape shit crazy one day.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Okay you've said this a few times now, and I don't actually understand what you mean, other then trying to spin this around as "Brianna shouldn't talk about it". So the guy probably needs help. Thats awful. He should get it. There's also enough evidence that we can't rule out the possibility that he was actually driving to her house to threaten her
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
She has never mentioned Jace by name in any piece and her other writing about Jace has explicitly expressed the fact that she understands that he needs mental help, but that she's still frightened. Because, you know... Even the mentally ill can kill someone.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
The guy didn't even know where she actually live it: https://kiwifar.ms/threads/2-1-15-jace-posts-operation-wupacalypse-manifesto.7462/
GaffeGargle is about ethics in journalism in the same way that the anti-vaccination movement is about ethics in big pharma.
...
Actually, the anti-vaccination movement probably cares more about ethics. They actually believe the bullshit they spout. GamerGate? They stopped pretending a few months ago.
Flying Toaster
Member
I have stayed out of GG for the most part. But fuck me. That guy needs help.
What he is doing is not cool or OK but seriously mocking him is not going to help him. This entire situation is sad.
What he is doing is not cool or OK but seriously mocking him is not going to help him. This entire situation is sad.
LegalEagleMike
Member
So should we wait to make a big deal about it until he knows enough personal information to act on it?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
True, but it does seem to be an important detail that the dude is mentally unstable. That would seem to be a huge reason for him actually driving to her house. He sounds like an all around nut. Severely mentally ill people can kill people, we know that. Nice opportunity to recognize mental health issues that exist as well.
I'm a psych major. Sorry. I'll take any opportunity I can to get on a soapbox about mental health
Anton Sugar
Member
Not trying to be a dick here, but I can tell by your descriptions that you haven't been following it. GamerGate was never about ethics in game journalism--that was a red herring created to deflect criticism over lies regarding and harassment towards Zoe Quinn. They "believe" women can achieve a lot in the videogame industry as long as they aren't feminists or "social justice warriors".
Sorry, I don't mean to imply that you're adding to the issue for posting this as my post kind of seems to suggest that; I just mean that overall it would be nice to see the industry portrayed as a more inviting place, and maybe it will become self-fulfilling. It's probably naive to think this though. :/
Something has to give. I'm going into game design with my strongest motivation being the memories I have of my mother and aunt competing against one another, teaching me how to play games and arguing over what system had better titles. It's the continued desire I have to bring that kind of generation bridging experience to more people through my own designs that keeps me motivated in this pursuit. For us to lose out on other perspectives that could lead to even more radical design and the transcending of barriers due to age, culture, or sex really fucking blows.
I agree with the notion that a highlight on various women chasing their dream in the industry would probably be a great help. The negativity is real but the only way you can fight it is with the positive.
I agree with the notion that a highlight on various women chasing their dream in the industry would probably be a great help. The negativity is real but the only way you can fight it is with the positive.
Whether that man has issues beyond a backwards view of the world, is kind of besides the point. Fact of the matter is, there's a hate movement that makes use of and/or includes such individuals, with the aim of trying to intimidate women.
Women who love the same hobby men do, mind you, and who simply want to feel treated with respect. Women who have intelligently articulated this desire and the reasons for it, not trying to take away anything that people already enjoy, but merely broaden the scope of what's available, and through having a dialogue, maybe make people think twice about how something they didn't notice before may be affecting others negatively.
It's bonkers that this is met with any kind of resistance, let alone death threats and rape threats, or silence and slander that just enables the people making the death threats and rape threats.
Every gamer has probably felt like the odd one out, at some point or another. You would think we would be the most empathetic and inclusive lot of people in the world. But then you have this shit going on.
But like every movement that tries to suppress a group of people seeking some semblance of equality, history will not look fondly on GG. In the meantime, I hope these women stand strong and continue to fight the good fight.
Women who love the same hobby men do, mind you, and who simply want to feel treated with respect. Women who have intelligently articulated this desire and the reasons for it, not trying to take away anything that people already enjoy, but merely broaden the scope of what's available, and through having a dialogue, maybe make people think twice about how something they didn't notice before may be affecting others negatively.
It's bonkers that this is met with any kind of resistance, let alone death threats and rape threats, or silence and slander that just enables the people making the death threats and rape threats.
Every gamer has probably felt like the odd one out, at some point or another. You would think we would be the most empathetic and inclusive lot of people in the world. But then you have this shit going on.
But like every movement that tries to suppress a group of people seeking some semblance of equality, history will not look fondly on GG. In the meantime, I hope these women stand strong and continue to fight the good fight.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Speaking of points, what point are you trying to make here? When you're constantly receiving death threats, it's impossible to tell which are fake and which constitute legitimate threats.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Not a moment too soon.
Every single GG thread, he acted like Ralph Wiggum suddenly wanting everyone to take him seriously.
Ah, I finally realized why this guy sent me a PM out of the blue a few months ago calling me an idiot despite us never posting in the same threads. It's because I was talking shit about GG.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Super unfortunate. Nothing about this is positive when looking at how it effects the medium.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Ahaha
The strategy of laying low and then going out in a blaze of idiocy seems to work really well for GG, not sure why they'd ever stop.
The video game industry is already pretty hellish. Long hours, low pay, crunch time as a thing taken for granted...
The last thing developers need is assholes threatening their families or swatting them.
The last thing developers need is assholes threatening their families or swatting them.
I'm coming round to the thinking that the serious GG'ers really are predominantly just mentally ill people, the kind who have depression, who are male, who maybe never had many/any relationships and are generally messed up. This group of people are also highly likely to be gamers as it's often a lone hobby done in your bedroom and let's you live out power fantasies etc. We have the perfect storm of these crazy people, now wanting to "defend" their hobby which they see as being under attack, with the whole thing highlighting the general level of misogyny which has been evident in this male dominated world of gaming for decades. Now they're sense of entitlement is focused and being taken out of all proportion by people who really are mentally ill.
Not sure what way it's going to go, but we need more female developers and generally devs who actively want to make this right, i.e. not feeding the GG'ers. We need to make sure this is just a hangover from the foundation of the hobby we all love, and that we can grow and overcome it. GG'ers are now fulfilling many of the "fears" of the dangers of gaming the media loves to warn about when we see GTA being released, fuelling misogyny and violence etc. They're undoing so much of the great work done by many devs to open this hobby up to new audience sectors and it's just incredibly frustrating to see "menkind" act like such massive fucking dick heads. Just move to an Islamic fundamentalist state, then you can have all the wives you want and keep your women downtrodden all you like, you have no place in this civilised world you pricks. Ethics in games journalism LOL.
And yet, here we are.
TheSadRanger
Banned
You know it's not like there isn't positive role models for women in the industry. Look at Tina Wood for example, she started out doing commentary on G4 and worked on the production side of things and now she is the Executive Director of new programming for Xbox. A highly lucrative position. She's one of the most highly regarded individuals in the industry.
While there are issues, etc. There are also some great stories of women who have had great success in the industry.
Yep. I feel 2014 will go down for a long time as one of the worst years in video game history, and one of the biggest reasons why is that a lot of potential talent was scared away from the industry.
Dragonborn
Member
Didn't the gamergate thing get taken over by all the extremists though? I mean, how does it work? Are they a dedicated, organized group, or just random people using a hash tag? Is it just a blanket term for anyone who's going after woman in gaming? Who are the leaders?
What's the point in keeping woman out in the first place? Gaming isn't going to change as long as sales figures continue to slant the way they do so there's literally no threat of any kind. Why such an extreme reaction to people voicing their own views?
That's what I don't get, this whole thing is so messy to follow that I don't understand what's even going on?
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I find it really odd that you are hellbent on disassociating the man from the GamerGate movement that you couldn't even take from context that Technomancer was not actually talking about him (in a thread not about him in the first place).
EDIT: Whuh, I took too long typing this post...
ShockingAlberto
Member
DICE would have been a good place for developers to say with one voice that they're able and willing to take initiative to undoing the damage GG and GG-like attitudes have done to women in game development
Instead, it was all hushed whispers because no one wanted to tank sales.
Instead, it was all hushed whispers because no one wanted to tank sales.
Team Filler
Member
She should post the letters (with identifiers redacted, of course), might work in building some empathy among a few who identify with gamergate.
Her part in the article of her lambasting the recent Wikipedia bannings caught my attention, since the information posted in the GAF thread about it made the bannings sound very even-handed and fair. Not sure what to think of that.
Her part in the article of her lambasting the recent Wikipedia bannings caught my attention, since the information posted in the GAF thread about it made the bannings sound very even-handed and fair. Not sure what to think of that.
It's a shame that Brianna makes it only worse for women in the industry by propagating toxicity within' the gaming community.
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
If we want to start to turn this around we really can't shit like this happening it really isn't helping the cause whatsoever.
Since proof will be asked for:
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
That it's so hard to understand was the plan from the very beginning for #GG. They thought that if all of their members were anonymous (other than the D-lister celebs) and that they never started defined goals for their movement, that they would get away with it because "you can't prove it was us!"
So, yes, there's a reason why it's so hard to understand. It didn't get hijacked, it was started by people who hated women with the goal of trying to force women out of gaming.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Damn terrible and a shame.
No. The original use of the #GamerGate hashtag was by conservative wingnut Adam Baldwin when he was retweeting a video that tried to insinuate that a developer had sex with journalists for good coverage of her game. Said good coverage did not actually exist.
#GamerGate has always been a bizarre conspiracy movement egged on by rightwing assholes.
Alcoremortis
Member
Yeah, the way that thread went made it sound a lot like Wikipedia was doing what they do for any article that requires arbitration and just banned everyone that was behaving badly regardless of how in the right they were.
Solemn_In_Berlin
Member
I hope we don't stop at lamenting. I hope we do our part, too.
That's pathetic.
Marty Chinn
Member
The thing I've never understood about GamerGate is how did it go from ethics in journalism integrity to anti women in the gaming industry? It's always confused me which is why I never understood what the hell was going on. I don't even know what they are trying to go after our accomplish either.
Dragonborn
Member
But why do they hate women? What made them get to that point? Is it just simple misogyny?
Also, why doesn't Twitter just start shutting down accounts that she'd out threats?
SolicitorPirate
Member
It was never taken over, it was always a movement of MRAs, trolls and criminals who used a "ethics in games journalism" as a carrot to dangle in front of useful idiots. It's just that now that it's clear it was never a movement about ethics, most the idiots have left, leaving the rotten core exposed.
It presents itself as a leaderless movement, and technically is. However, gamergate has prominent icons who act as de facto leaders who can coordinate and target the mob at whoever they choose. Most the leaders come from MRA reddits, though there are others such as Total Biscuit.
And it's difficult to understand them, because like any other hate mob, they are irrational. There is no consistency to their actions beyond the targets that they feel must be destroyed by any means necessary.
This is a very nice high-level summary of how this mess came to be. I'll refer back to it in the unfortunate event that I have to explain Gamergate to anyone. One nitpick: GamersGate is a PC game vendor that long predates Gamergate.
I've always taken an issue with the persistently narrow view in our isolated social sphere on what gaming and the gaming industry "is". Since most of the demographic this sphere consists of seems to have grown up primarily with the post-80's console focused games primarily marketed and focus tested for teenage and adolescent boys, this facet is basically what defines the whole industry and culture to them, and is the reason they start feeling so threatened by people suggesting that maybe there are more demographics out there we could do a better job catering to. This whole thing also ties into other stuff like dismissing certian types of games as "non-games", and mobile/casual and digital only titles don't "count" in discussion about sales, market share and relevance and such, etc etc.
In the pre-Playstation era there was a whole different side of the games industry which is seldom brought up and that's the home computer games of the 80's and early 90's. This was a pretty diverse market where designers like Roberta Williams could thrive without facing the kind of scrutiny female developers or journalists or whatever have to put up with in today's climate.
It's a rabbit hole you don't want to delve into trust me. It's just a headache.
8chan doxxed Brianna and her family. She ain't propagating shit by telling them to openly act like the scum they are.
Your false concern is not appreciated here.
It never started that way. Always been this way, just some people were dumb enough to buy into the early videos that were full of lies and distortions.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Twitter doesn't shut down accounts that are from fucking ISIS fighters.
The KKK has a Twitter account.
Twitter is not good about this stuff.
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