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[Purple Cheeto]

This has gone way beyond a misguided movement and is now just in conspiracy-land. Its impervious to self reflection. Fighting it is impossible. Its like fighting any conspiracy movement, prove one thing false they throw 10 more things at you, it never ends. And considering it supported by MRA trash, that was more than willing to pick up more sycophants, its got just enough fuel to sustain itself. GG feeds on its own rage and its very personal.

The best thing anyone can do is look at GamerGate, and not be that.

The only person I know in real life who cares about GG (as in he's for it) is an unemployed white male in his mid 30s who also believes 9-11 was an Inside Job and that there is a vast global Jew conspiracy.

He's also basically high 24/7.

 

[zeldablue]

I think I fell in love with you reading that just now.

Seriously, amazing wisdom. There's a lot to be said for mercy.

It's just so hard to be patient with these people when their hate seems never-ending.

Thanks man. ;___;

In what sense?

If the who fiasco has made them fall out of love with the idea of being a game developer that is a much sadder thing. But "I won't pursue my dream because other people might not want me to" is no excuse.

I'd rather not risk being stalked for the rest of my life. I'm kind of glad I turned away from game design in school before this blew up. If people suck the love out of what you cared about, then it's time to find somewhere where love still is.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Why don't they get reported anyway? all i read in their feed is these death threats and how close to being harassed IRL but they never call the police for some reason.

The police rarely take Internet death threats seriously because so few have every actually resulted in anything. I'm not saying them ignoring it is necessarily justified, but that's why nothing is done about it.

 

[Alienous]

No, it's "I won't pursue my dream because other people might rape/kill/render me homeless/make me afraid to sign online if I do."

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

your dream should be something that you're close to willing to die for (IMO).

I'm not going to take a bullet for a play, a movie, a TV show, or a video game. Yet it's my dream to be involved in all of these industries at some level.

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers.

All of the above has happened.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).
.

Rational? Perhaps not on a numbers level. But I mean...read that link about harassment I posted. And then consider that all of these prominent women have had their personal information and in many cases information about their loved ones leaked. And consider that this has been torrential and unending, without respite. After six months, a year, two years of that yeah, its irrational but people are scared. And disengaging from what you love, and by extension the toxic community around it, is a way to stop being scared.

And its not strange that people look at that and say "no, I don't want that to be me, its not worth dealing with that"

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

...

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

I see what you are saying, that these things are pretty much only directed at women who are "faces" and that a regular everyday woman who works on games wouldn't be receiving these kinds of threats, but that in and of itself is a problem. It basically sends the message that "sure, women are okay, just don't show your face so I can pretend you don't exist." That still puts out an image of exclusiveness instead of inclusiveness and would likely cause a woman to be afraid to take promotions.

 

[SilverLunar]

Then you aren't paying attention because they have and the police don't give a shit.

But how about you victim blame some more.

How am i victim blaming?? I was mostly commenting on some of the details i read about one incident about a car drive by near the house of Wu if i recall correctly and how he was carrying weapons in them, it is so bizzare.

Arent these stuff reported to the police first and not just announce it online for everyone to read? and why wont the police give a shit if it is a scenario like this?

Is there an update on this story specifically?

 

[The Technomancer]

How am i victim blaming?? I was mostly commenting on some of the details i read about one incident about a car drive by near the house of Wu if i recall correctly and how he was carrying weapons in them, it is so bizzare.

Arent these stuff reported to the police first and just announce it online for everyone to read? and why wont the police give a shit if it is a scenario like this?

Is there an update on this story specifically?

There hasn't been an update on that specifically yet, but police investigations take time, and I also would not be surprised if Wu (or any other victim in any other situation) asks the authorities to keep the details as private as possible

Zoe Quinn, for example, did successfully manage to get her ex into court and get a digital restraining order on him. But he also leaked the court proceedings to further smear her. So yeah

 

[CambriaRising]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

You cannot be serious.

 

[yami4ct]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

It seems to be happening to to a good chunk of female devs/critics who get even a little publicity. What makes it worse is that it's very severe and very visible. Maybe the chances of a specific person getting targeted are low, but I can easily see someone who's maybe unsure of gaming as a profession or just on the fence getting pushed over the edge because this stuff is legitimately scary.

This situation has been out of control for quite some time. The fact it has pushed some out of the industry isn't surprising, but is certainly very depressing. I can't say I blame them for making that choice, but the industry is certainly going to be a worse place for their absence.

Thinking about this whole incident, every time I post something even remotely criticizing a GG position, I get a twinge of "is this somehow going to set off a crazy person attacking me." I can't imagine saying anything at all if I were female, as that twinge would be more than a passing thought and probably a scary reality.

 

[zeldablue]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

My whole college had to have a special session addressing the harassment of the female game design professors, alumni and students due to gamergate. It really weighs down on the whole industry. Most of my female game design professors are feminist. How do you think they feel about stuff like this?

It hurts their feelings to say the very least.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You cannot be serious.

Worst part is, if I remember correctly, he's in the industry

 

[ShockingAlberto]

"If you do what people tell you and keep your mouth shut, there's no reason you can't just blend in with everyone else, sugartits."

 

[Nanashrew]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

You watch Law & Order today? http://twitter.com/srhbutts/status/565757271389782016


This is why women are terrified to join this industry.

 

[mo60]

One of the main 8chan people accidentally doxxed a judge so I have to think the site's garbageness is going to be taken more seriously by the government now.

And the people on one of that one 8chan board linked to a pastebin created by one of them that had a bunch of private and vile stuff in it also that would get people arrested easily.

At this point anyway I don't think places on the internet should be giving gaters a space to target, harass and.or scare people(especially women) away from the gaming industry,

 

[bishoptl]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

I could tell you some stories I've heard from female colleagues, but those who don't want to hear it don't want to hear it.

 

[Freshmaker]

But they don't care how they look to the rest of the world and until their precious AAA developers actually start speaking out against them (not gonna happen) nothing will change.

That'll just make them rage more, not shut them up.

 

[Alienous]

You cannot be serious.

In what sense?

I understand GamerGate making women fall out of love with pursuing their dream, in the sense of 'I don't want to be part of something so toxic'. But it's worrying to me that women might come to the conclusion that they are likely to be personally persecuted if they pursue their passion because of recent, very public events. That isn't the 'default stance', for lack of a better term, and will get better with time.

I could tell you some stories I've heard from female colleagues, but those who don't want to hear it don't want to hear it.

To that point I'm not privy to how institutional the discrimination might be, though it would be enlightening to be informed about that.

I'm speaking to the public nature of the discrimination that is pushing some women to abandon their dream, which is a terrible thing to have happen.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Rational? Perhaps not on a numbers level. But I mean...read that link about harassment I posted. And then consider that all of these prominent women have had their personal information and in many cases information about their loved ones leaked. And consider that this has been torrential and unending, without respite. After six months, a year, two years of that yeah, its irrational but people are scared. And disengaging from what you love, and by extension the toxic community around it, is a way to stop being scared.

And its not strange that people look at that and say "no, I don't want that to be me, its not worth dealing with that"

But the situation based for this extrapolated irrational fear is too foreign/unique. If you look at those who have unfortunately been targets, they are prominent and public well known females in the industry, particularly indie.

People forget that the industry is a 9-5 job for the vast majority of employees, Michael and Sally from the art department don't have twitter profiles with more than 100-200 followers Jeremy and Monique from programming are the same, gamers don't know about the vast majority of employees making their games, only the few public figureheads/icons.

So basing a fear on what you see on the situation in my first paragraph is irrational. They're basing a decision on what they've seen in a very anecdotal situation for what the games industry is. Yes you can make a case if you manage to make it to a very prominent and public position, but one cannot judge based on this, you need to consider the situation of the industry itself, and these fears do not make sense if you go outside of the situation with prominent indie female developers.

I struggle to get my point across usually but yeah, none of this is an excuse obviously, this shouldn't be happening at all, but the decisions based on irrational fear is incorrect, its using a skewed basis for that conclusion. It doesn't consider the industry as a whole as it is. If the fear is based purely on the focus of prominent indie female developers then sure, but that doesn't make sense if you want to get into games and that's your only focus. I understand how these prominent female developers are role models and examples for dreams and the assholes of GG are ruining and preventing these dreams/aspirations to manifest. I get that.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm just misunderstanding/missing a particular point or maybe what I'm saying isn't relevant to the discussion. I don't want to go with "I'm in the industry" but I have been in the industry at a point and these are my experiences, this is how vast majority male and female were, that's as far as I can go, my experiences with people. It's another job where people don't have any interaction with the people who play the games and it's difficult for gamers to find out much about these people other than going by a game's credits.

 

[Jintor]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Are you kidding me

 

[charlequin]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers.

Definitely more than 1%. I don't think it's even possible to believe this if you actually talk to female game developers about it.

But it's worrying to me that women might come to the conclusion that they are likely to be personally persecuted if they pursue their passion because of recent, very public events.

"I will be personally persecuted if I pursue my passion" is, terribly enough, a factual and correct conclusion for women who are interested in games or technology to draw.

 

[Yagharek]

Gamergate is just a front for misogynists.

If Gamergate were about "ethics in games journalism" then they would have noticed it is mostly male games journalists dealing with men from publishers and men from developers and men from PR in the overwhelming majority of cases that appear suspect.

The only problem with women in the games industry is that there aren't enough of them.

 

[Jigorath]

We could have just lost the next Miyamoto or Kamiya, way to go GG. Less developers = less games = better gaming?

 

[Nanashrew]

In what sense?

I understand GamerGate making women fall out of love with pursuing their dream, in the sense of 'I don't want to be part of something so toxic'. But it's worrying to me that women might come to the conclusion that they are likely to be personally persecuted if they pursue their passion because of recent, very public events. That isn't the 'default stance', for lack of a better term, and will get better with time.

I'd like to know when it gets better because it's been going on awhile. There are GGers who were part of the original harassment campaign against Jennifer Hepler which forced her to leave Bioware due to death threats against her and her family. GamerGate has only united all harassers under one name. This isn't a recent event at all. It's just much bigger in scope now.

 

[yami4ct]

In what sense?

I understand GamerGate making women fall out of love with pursuing their dream, in the sense of 'I don't want to be part of something so toxic'. But it's worrying to me that women might come to the conclusion that they are likely to be personally persecuted if they pursue their passion because of recent, very public events. That isn't the 'default stance', for lack of a better term, and will get better with time.

If you were in college being forced to make a decision about what you wanted to do within the next 2-4 years and you saw a huge groundswell within an industry trying to push you, and others like you, away (or at least silence you), would you keep going down that path? Even if it's being perpetrated by a small minority of those who are involved in the industry and its consumers, there's a very load and vocal "we don't want you" message being put out there. I can't see myself just writing that off as It's going to get better.

 

[Easy_D]

At first it was "just" sad then I read the final part of the quote. Ugh, fucking monsters ruining the dreams of children .

 

[thekiddfran]

 

[Vandova]

This is really intense.

I'm not going to lie, this whole ordeal has made me pretty depressed. I have to avoid this stuff because it honestly poisons the mind regardless of which side you stand on. It's an extremely important discussion to have, but not in this way. If it makes you angry or frustrated then I would advise to back down for at least a week. Barely anything gets accomplished through hatred. It just bores more hurt feelings and creates a cycle of blame and...suffering.

Any chance we can switch this into an act of love? How well you treat your enemies says a lot about who you are. Forgiveness is not an act of weakness but one of strength.

And well...I really feel like sexism is just a result of repressed emotional pain anyways. In fact, that's basically what all forms of hate are: repressed emotional pain. If you want to put an end to sexism or don't know why you've been called sexist, then remember that you can't skip the main step. When the plane is crashing you have to put on your own oxygen mask before helping the person next to you. With that in mind, is it ever really possible to love and accept someone else when you don't fully love and accept yourself? If you're the one mad about potentially being sexist, then put on your oxygen mask. And if you're the one telling someone to put the oxygen mask on you...then let that person put their mask on first.

And I think those are the questions everyone needs to step back and think about. All phobias and all forms of hatred start with the self. They are projected onto disadvantaged groups simply because quite frankly no one ever supports or gives a shit about disadvantaged groups. Both racism and sexism are the result of feeling the need to measure your own worth by stepping on others. Why do people do this? Because they can't find worth in themselves alone, so they need the certainty that prejudice provides.

Everyone carries a pit in their souls saying they were robbed of the love and belonging they deserve, everyone smacks others down to express that pain. I can shamelessly say it leads to nothing besides a short glimpse of satisfaction followed by a blinding addiction to hatred. And depression is nothing but hatred turned inward. :C

There's really not going to be a cure to sexism until you cure the hatred from each and every person's heart. And I'm pretty sure you can only do that by caring about each other. So regardless of where things go from here, I hope that everyone, regardless of how they feel, knows that they deserve love, belongingness and happiness in their lives. Because worth is measured in happiness and not in the pain of those you distrust.

I really like this post.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I'm not sure that happens to even 1% of female game developers. That seems like an irrational reason to give up on your dreams (if you are much older than twelve, at least).

Things will get better, especially if women pursue their game industry dreams.

This post is so fucking willfully ignorant that it actually grosses me out.

 

[M0nochromatic]

There is a deeper meaning though, for people into psychology anyways. I would absolutely love to know what happened to these people and why they are the way they are. I mean you can just say that they are sexist and end it there, and thats fair and most people would be content with that answer, but the human mind, how it deals with things and how it shapes who you are is super complex. There are probably many factors that contributed to forming these people into out-there sexists with violent tendencies and understanding what caused them to be this way on a psychological level would be beneficial to everyone.

What I meant by value was the original discussion and what got lost there. You're right, there is a lot to be looked at here and analysed. What triggered it, what was the mindset, how did it grow so fast, are all interesting points for sure. It comes at a cost though. Those pushed away by the vitriol won't be able to enjoy or participate in a medium anymore. It literally crushed people's dreams. There is much to be learned here, but it's still quite tragic.

 

[Alienous]

This post is so fucking willfully ignorant that it actually grosses me out.

In which case I apologize. The problem is more prevalent than I was genuinely aware.

 

[Silraru]

I don't really think it matters how many females devs (or devs) it happens to matters. What really matters is that it can happen. That alone is enough especially to those that are already affected. After all, what truly matters is what one goes through. It's like it doesn't matter if a life threatening disease is rare, what matters to a person who has it, is the fact they have it and they have to live with the effects of it. (For lack of better analogy)

For those who say that these events shouldn't turn people away, why not? Female devs harassment are bad, but any kind of harassment is bad. There are male devs who have been threatened too and those should be of concern as well. Why would anyone want to be threatened or at very least verbally abused? and daily? It takes a lot of mental fortitude to just shrug it off and continue as if the threats/verbal abuse don't matter when it happens frequently.

I am not sure it will necessary get better even if more females enter the industries. This is the ugly side of human nature that I do not see going away. At same time, I don't think the industry is as bad as the recent events make them sound. There will be jerks as there will be jerks in the world but many people I've met in the industry are very nice friendly people. (It's harder to speak this general about the gaming communities though. Seriously some people in the community are just plain nasty and not very pleasant. They're just out to troll.) Of course, if someone keeps focusing on the negative aspect of things, then eventually their perspective will be skewed. It is not irrational to give up dreams because of this. I've known people who gave up their dream of the industry for reasons less severe than harassment like these.

 

[dark_chris]

This is so disgusting that women were giving up their dreams cause of stupid jackholes. Wow. What a way to set back stuff huh?

 

[Lime]

In which case I apologize. The problem is more prevalent than I was genuinely aware.

This might be helpful http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=957274

 

[BlackBuzzard]

That sounds sexist as hell.

Yeah that isn't really any better.

 

[gogosox82]

I still don't understand why authorities don't do something about the harassment. The harassment is documented for everyone to see but apparently nothing can be done to these people. Its just depressing and sad.

 

[aiat_gamer]

And I guess they specifically mentioned GG as the reason, and only to Wu. I wonder, why we have not heard about them...

 

[MC Safety]

I try not to be pessimistic about these things.

In the course of eight plus years working for game companies I've worked side-by-side with a lot of talented women. And maybe my experience is limited or I've just not worked for the right (meaning, wrong) companies, but I haven't noticed a hostile work environment.

I'm sorry Brianna Wu has received threats. And the letters from women put off from their dreams are disconcerting. But if I were her, I'd be telling each and every woman there are game companies who, layoffs and crunch aside, treat their employees with dignity and respect.

 

[QaaQer]

...and this is the fault of AAA how? If anything we probably employ more women at AAA studios than the whole of the indie sector. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a higher female to male ratio too. It's 1:4 at our studio.

Leaving out Nintendo, AAA companies are laser focused on the13-34yo male demo. So who gets attracted.to the industry? Maybe a few games where killing and murder are not the only ways of interacting with the game world would yield better results.

At least least gen had music rhythm games.

 

[despire]

Uh I still don't even understand whats going on with gamergate or what it is. What really happened? Everyone is saying something different..

 

[aiat_gamer]

I don't really think it matters how many females devs (or devs) it happens to matters. What really matters is that it can happen. That alone is enough especially to those that are already affected. After all, what truly matters is what one goes through. It's like it doesn't matter if a life threatening disease is rare, what matters to a person who has it, is the fact they have it and they have to live with the effects of it. (For lack of better analogy)

For those who say that these events shouldn't turn people away, why not? Female devs harassment are bad, but any kind of harassment is bad. There are male devs who have been threatened too and those should be of concern as well. Why would anyone want to be threatened or at very least verbally abused? and daily? It takes a lot of mental fortitude to just shrug it off and continue as if the threats/verbal abuse don't matter when it happens frequently.

I am not sure it will necessary get better even if more females enter the industries. This is the ugly side of human nature that I do not see going away. At same time, I don't think the industry is as bad as the recent events make them sound. There will be jerks as there will be jerks in the world but many people I've met in the industry are very nice friendly people. (It's harder to speak this general about the gaming communities though. Seriously some people in the community are just plain nasty and not very pleasant. They're just out to troll.) Of course, if someone keeps focusing on the negative aspect of things, then eventually their perspective will be skewed. It is not irrational to give up dreams because of this. I've known people who gave up their dream of the industry for reasons less severe than harassment like these.

It is not that bad, they just like to make it look that way. The all female game with fine young capitalists got funded and it is well under development without any drama or claims/attemepts at harassment. I wonder, if GG is so anti-female oriented why they are not targeting this all female development team?!

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I still don't understand why authorities don't do something about the harassment. The harassment is documented for everyone to see but apparently nothing can be done to these people. Its just depressing and sad.

The authorities, at least in the US, just don't take online harassment seriously as a rule. Partially I think it's a matter of jurisdictional complexity: the harassers are almost never in the same geographical location as the people they're harassing, so local police departments and even state police departments can't really do anything about it directly - they'd have to coordinate with judges and PDs in other states to prosecute these crimes. And for the feds this stuff isn't even on the radar for a variety of reasons, including a lack of manpower.

 

[Giever]

I don't really think it matters how many females devs (or devs) it happens to matters. What really matters is that it can happen. That alone is enough especially to those that are already affected. After all, what truly matters is what one goes through. It's like it doesn't matter if a life threatening disease is rare, what matters to a person who has it, is the fact they have it and they have to live with the effects of it. (For lack of better analogy)

On a personal level, sure. But, no, it really does matter how many people this happens to. If only one or two people were ever harassed or abused over, say 30 years in the games industry then there wouldn't be much to be concerned about. They'd be isolated incidents. But there is obviously a pretty big cultural problem that's leading to people very frequently being harassed. In the former scenario, that's no reason to be concerned about joining the industry. In the latter scenario it is very much a reason to be concerned.

For those who say that these events shouldn't turn people away, why not? Female devs harassment are bad, but any kind of harassment is bad. There are male devs who have been threatened too and those should be of concern as well. Why would anyone want to be threatened or at very least verbally abused? and daily? It takes a lot of mental fortitude to just shrug it off and continue as if the threats/verbal abuse don't matter when it happens frequently.

I understand what you're saying, and I feel that way too sometimes when it comes to certain issues. It's somewhat natural to feel something is 'unfair' if certain incidents are being 'ignored'. But you have to understand that this is way, way, way on a bigger scale for incidents of women being harassed. And the incidents where men are being harassed aren't really due to some toxic culture. Furthermore, individuals that are expressing concern and sympathy towards female victims are not, in doing so, suggesting that they don't give a shit about other victims, so there's no need to read into it that way.

I am not sure it will necessary get better even if more females enter the industries. This is the ugly side of human nature that I do not see going away. At same time, I don't think the industry is as bad as the recent events make them sound. There will be jerks as there will be jerks in the world but many people I've met in the industry are very nice friendly people.

This just sounds like a defeatist attitude. More women in the industry could very well lead the way to things getting better eventually. That's not to say they won't get worse first, because they might. But, in the long run, more women in the industry is likely to only be a good thing.

 

[hiex_]

Man this stuff is super depressing to read about. My sister and I are trying to get into game development, and any time gamergate stuff is on Neogaf it just gets me feeling worried about what she might possibly end up receiving. Not to sound like I'm revolving my whole opinion around her wellbeing, I feel terrible for these women getting threats like this.

 

[LAA]

Jess Christ.
I wasn't so sure what gamer gate was, I thought it was just about the alleged cheating with a journalism, had no idea it went this deep and nasty.
It's just very sad, like I read one of the quotes from one of the women affected "going to conventions used to feel like going home, now I'm wondering how many posted for gamergate", which is absolutely understandable, but I can only hope this is simply an extremist minority. I'm willing to bet some people were just taken in from the storm and posted things not really knowing what the whole things about.

Best way to oppose it/support the women affected and the women who could potentially join the industry is perhaps to just sorta...kill the hashtag I guess. Fill it with good comments instead. Or just an opposing hashtag with positive to drown out the bad and make it appear really small.

 

[Giever]

Jess Christ.
I wasn't so sure what gamer gate was, I thought it was just about the alleged cheating with a journalism, had no idea it went this deep and nasty.
It's just very sad, like I read one of the quotes from one of the women affected "going to conventions used to feel like going home, now I'm wondering how many posted for gamergate", which is absolutely understandable, but I can only hope this is simply an extremist minority. I'm willing to bet some people were just taken in from the storm and posted things not really knowing what the whole things about.

Damn, that's really sad. What almost makes it worse in my mind is thinking about how all of those potential GGers at cons and such weren't necessarily always awful human beings. Like, it's not so simple that GG just sort of revealed their nature. Rather, a lot of them might have been relatively decent people that got swept up by the toxic echo chamber.

Sucks to think that the movement/group/whatever-you-want-to-call-it didn't just reveal a bunch of shitty people who were always shitty, but is probably actively making some relatively alright people shittier and more hateful.

 

[Silraru]

On a personal level, sure. But, no, it really does matter how many people this happens to. If only one or two people were ever harassed or abused over, say 30 years in the games industry then there wouldn't be much to be concerned about. They'd be isolated incidents. But there is obviously a pretty big cultural problem that's leading to people very frequently being harassed. In the former scenario, that's no reason to be concerned about joining the industry. In the latter scenario it is very much a reason to be concerned.

I understand what you're saying, and I feel that way too sometimes when it comes to certain issues. It's somewhat natural to feel something is 'unfair' if certain incidents are being 'ignored'. But you have to understand that this is way, way, way on a bigger scale for incidents of women being harassed. And the incidents where men are being harassed aren't really due to some toxic culture. Furthermore, individuals that are expressing concern and sympathy towards female victims are not, in doing so, suggesting that they don't give a shit about other victims, so there's no need to read into it that way.

I suppose I was not quite clear on what I was trying to say. I was more trying to make a point against posts saying it's irrational to give up dreams because of recent events. My point was, for someone who is affected, what really matters to that person is he/she is affected. It doesn't matter whether the incident is likely or unlikely to happen to others or not. Overall, I personally feel any harrassment is worthy of being pointed out and dealt with regardless of victim's gender and severity and, taking even bigger picture into consideration, those who are not affected should be concerned and want to eliminate any harrassment too.

This just sounds like a defeatist attitude. More women in the industry could very well lead the way to things getting better eventually. That's not to say they won't get worse first, because they might. But, in the long run, more women in the industry is likely to only be a good thing.

I am actually not convinced about this. I don't think it will be a bad thing for more women to be in the industry. However, I still doubt having more women in the industry will change the gaming community to be less hostile. The gaming community must come from the gaming community itself. Yes, the hostile community is most likely a minority. However, it only takes silence to allow the minority feel like majority. Reading GAF on thread with similar topics already makes me feel quite a decent amount of people just don't care. Of course, I do know that many do care but how do you offset the hostile minority and those who don't care to send a clear and loud message that the community does care? And on that note, how many actually take action to do so?

 

[QaaQer]

There is a deeper meaning though, for people into psychology anyways. I would absolutely love to know what happened to these people and why they are the way they are. I mean you can just say that they are sexist and end it there, and thats fair and most people would be content with that answer, but the human mind, how it deals with things and how it shapes who you are is super complex. There are probably many factors that contributed to forming these people into out-there sexists with violent tendencies and understanding what caused them to be this way on a psychological level would be beneficial to everyone.

Childhood abuse and/or neglect, basing their identities and relationships on violent games, and a lack of female companionship would be my guess.