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[morningbus]

You're right every person that shot at him or tried to kill his partner he should have stopped and surrendered, or tried to reason with them, or just let himself get killed.

Or he could have walked away instead of murdering 3 dozen people off a hunch.

They could have side stepped all this just by setting the game in Florida.

 

[Servbot24]

I tried to watch this, got nearly 4 minutes in but these guys are absolutely insufferable.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Or, you know, left after he was forced to kill someone who was, as far as he knew, just doing their job.

Or maybe, IDK, shown some deep remorse or fury at what's-her-face for putting him in a situation where he felt forced to take innocent lives.

Or just about anything to make that dialogue prior to the mission seem narratively justified instead of the writers slapping the audience in the face with "LOOK HOW NOBLE HE IS, GUYS!"

I feel like getting shot as is justification enough to shoot back in that situation and this happens in every single game out there like this. Happens in Uncharted, Assassins Creed, and countless others.

 

[perineumlick]

Agreed.

Lol, what a lack of class.

 

[Toxi]

I saw that bit. This is children's hour stuff. Grown men shouldn't be watching this nonsense. I've got no problem with some people disliking the game but I have got a problem with juvenile stuff like this.

These two are embarrassing.

"And they're also big doo-doo heads!"

 

[Servbot24]

"And they're also big doo-doo heads!"

Embarrassing.

 

[NullPointer]

Or, you know, left after he was forced to kill someone who was, as far as he knew, just doing their job.

Or maybe, IDK, shown some deep remorse or fury at what's-her-face for putting him in a situation where he felt forced to take innocent lives.

Or just about anything to make that dialogue prior to the mission seem narratively justified instead of the writers slapping the audience in the face with "LOOK HOW NOBLE HE IS, GUYS!"

And lets remember, this isn't even the first time in the game that Galahad goes around killing a bunch of innocents, nor is it the last time. This stuff happens throughout, and always clashes with the dialogue.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

"And they're also big doo-doo heads!"

LOL. What?

 

[Toxi]

I feel like getting shot as is justification enough to shoot back in that situation and this happens in every single game out there like this. Happens in Uncharted, Assassins Creed, and countless others.

Sure. Is it justification to continue massacring every guard in the shipyard?

 

[Lethe82]

Eh, Far Cry 1 was great for its time, and Crysis 1 will always be great, so... RAD has some catching up to do if they want to be CryTek.

In downward quality sure, everything prior to The Order was fantastic.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I tried to watch this, got nearly 4 minutes in but these guys are absolutely insufferable.

Literally.

 

[Gestault]

Eh, Far Cry 1 was great for its time, and Crysis 1 will always be great, so... RAD has some catching up to do if they want to be CryTek.

Their PSP work is really high-quality stuff. They've worked within other team's frameworks, but they made one of the best God of War games on a tiny budget and limited hardware.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Or he could have walked away instead of murdering 3 dozen people off a hunch.

They could have side stepped all this just by setting the game in Florida.

I guess you don't play any games like Uncharted or anything like that right? They go overboard I agree. The one that even pisses me off is when he's on the airship sneaking about, he could clearly knock people out instead of sticking knives in their throats.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Sure. Is it justification to continue massacring every guard in the shipyard?

Just like every other game that does it is justified, if you have a certain problem with that and you don't play those types of games I can understand where you're coming from when it comes to this scene.

 

[The Adder]

I feel like getting shot as is justification enough to shoot back in that situation and this happens in every single game out there like this. Happens in Uncharted, Assassins Creed, and countless others.

The difference is that neither Ezio Auditore nor Nathan Drake loudly state "I'M NOT GOING TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE UNTIL YOU PROVE TO ME THEY AREN'T INNOCENT." Before they kill a bunch of people just doing their jobs. Anyone working for Templars are fair game for Assassins, whether they know who they work for or not. And Drake deals pretty much entirely with bad people.

This would be avoided if they hadn't written that line in the first place. But they did. And then did nothing to justify it.

 

[thunder_snail]

Let them be offended.

I'm offended by what they gave me for a story.

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

 

[Toxi]

I'd sooner watch Crapgamer than these two chimpanzee, and I'm serious about that.

Are you just trying to throw as many random insults as you can at them to see which one sticks?

 

[Armaros]

Just like every other game that does it is justified, if you have a certain problem with that and you don't play those types of games I can understand where you're coming from when it comes to this scene.

And people have never brought up the inconsistiency in video games about that fact before.

Nope, not once, so everyone bringing it up now is just picking on the Order.

Yup, that's it.

There wasn't a thread on this very forum discussing if Nathan is a mass murderer, nope.

 

[Chabbles]

The intro to the last of us had way more subtle storytelling and even though it was set inside a small house, had way more exploration and freedom than the intro to the order, it also was unique in the fact that it took place from the perspective of the MC's daughter and not the MC. And it mostly certainly doesn't interrupt the gameplay with a ton of cutscenes or reintroduce stuff we already know via tutorial.
*Use L to move*
Oh ok thanks game, I totes didn't figure that out before when you told me it the first time.

Im talking about from the moment the game starts to when the kid getting shot, with the intro in TLoU. All of which is tightly scripted and very linear, and many cutscenes. The gameplay involves moving the analog stick, and thats pretty much it for the first half hour.

 

[More_Badass]

LOL. What?

You really don't realize how juvenile your comments sound?

 

[WordsintheWater]

The difference is that neither Ezio Auditore nor Nathan Drake loudly state "I'M NOT GOING TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE UNTIL YOU PROVE TO ME THEY AREN'T INNOCENT." Before they kill a bunch of people just doing their jobs. Anyone working for Templars are fair game for Assassins, whether they know who they work for or not. And Drake deals pretty much entirely with bad people.

This would be avoided if they hadn't written that line in the first place. But they did. And then did nothing to justify it.

Adding in that line was stupid, agreed, made it way harder for people to disconnect with what he was doing. Game comes into problems like this because it has an identity crisis, it's trying to be a game and at the same time trying to be true to a story which doesn't work out all the time.

 

[MormaPope]

GribbleGrunger you are one of the most transparent fanboys/trolls based on your previous posts. You make Chad Warden look like Phil Spencer.

 

[aravuus]

Are you just trying to throw as many random insults as you can at them to see which one sticks?

Desperate for attention

 

[antitrop]

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

That would probably be deserved, if the student was trying to sell that paper to other students for $60.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

Except the professor isn't asking for money, RAD is. Public criticism, no matter how aggressive, is justified when it's a commercial product.

 

[WordsintheWater]

And people have never brought up the inconsistiency in video games about that fact before.

Nope, not once, so everyone bringing it up now is just picking on the Order.

Yup, that's it.

There wasn't a thread on this very forum discussing if Nathan is a mass murderer, nope.

Of course they do and of course they're is inconsistency, it's a video game, stuff like shooting people is gonna happen. This game indeed takes it way too far in the sneaking missions because no one is firing on you at that point, you can knock them out if you wanted.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Was his partner at the moment, she dies, he doesn't find out what is going on. The reason I believe he trusted her is because he trusted Perceval and it was pretty obvious Perceval knew something was going on. This stuff happens in every single video game. Why the heck do I kill so many innocent soldiers in Assassins Creed, they are just doing their jobs.

"Everything is permitted" -> kills a Templar guard standing in his way to an assassination vs "We will not harm innocents" -> stabs a shipyard guard in the neck.

Like, there was literally no point in that line except some forced attempt at characterizing Gallahad as some by-the-books heroic type. Remove that one single part and that whole complaint goes out the window. Just schlocky writing that doesn't even fit with their attempt at gameplay. Just repackage the game as cutscenes since that's what the developers clearly wanted to do.

 

[CambriaRising]

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

This week in false equivalency.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Im talking about from the moment the game starts to when the kid getting shot, with the intro in TLoU. All of which is tightly scripted and very linear, and many cutscenes. The gameplay involves moving the analog stick, and thats pretty much it for the first half hour.

It's tightly scripted, but they still allow you to explore the house, not only that, but during entire truck sequence they don't take away control. It's a very big difference between that and the order. It's a much better intro and not just because of the story.

Was his partner at the moment, she dies, he doesn't find out what is going on. The reason I believe he trusted her is because he trusted Perceval and it was pretty obvious Perceval knew something was going on. This stuff happens in every single video game. Why the heck do I kill so many innocent soldiers in Assassins Creed, they are just doing their jobs.

First of all, you're an assassin, you're not batman, the assassins have a motto, "Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent." Last I checked, templar guards are not innocent. They know who you are as they immediately yell "Assassin!" as soon as you get caught. Secondly, Perceval is never seen with the rebel leader and Perceval never tells him anything that implies a conspiracy or that the rebels are right. He just blindly follows orders and suggestions. This kind of stupid storytelling does not happen in every single video game. Talk about false equivalence.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I tried to watch this, got nearly 4 minutes in but these guys are absolutely insufferable.

Yet the most cringeworthy parts about the video still were the dialogue/story examples from the game.

 

[WordsintheWater]

"Everything is permitted" -> kills a Templar guard standing in his way to an assassination vs "We will not harm innocents" -> stabs a shipyard guard in the neck.

Like, there was literally no point in that line except some forced attempt at characterizing Gallahad as some by-the-books heroic type. Remove that one single part and that whole complaint goes out the window. Just schlocky writing that doesn't even fit with their attempt at gameplay. Just repackage the game as cutscenes since that's what the developers clearly wanted to do.

Stupid writing on their part I completely agree

 

[tuna_love]

Yet the most cringeworthy parts about the video still were the dialogue/story examples from the game.

Lol

 

[SmithnCo]

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

I've seen a fair amount of people getting offended on RAD's behalf for some reason. When you release a product to the masses you should expect all kinds of criticism.

 

[NullPointer]

To go back to an earlier point, do people here really think this game is a cynical 'corporate art' cash-in like this review claims? Or did it have loftier ambitions and had to stitch its parts together in strange ways to make release?

Or did we somehow get the intended final product?

 

[Palculator]

It's about the practice.

Let me give you another example.
Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

It's okay because what the professor saying is completely true and only think you can do is suck it up and hopefully write a better paper in the future.

Then after the criticism, if the professor writes large "FUCK YOU" on the board and burns the paper in front of everyone, that's not cool.

It's okay for you to be offended but it's usually not very nice to be a dick about it.

I get what you're saying and would agree with you within the context of the academia. But RedLetterMedia is an entertainment site first. Sure, they tend to call it a review because that's the most fitting term for what they do, but content produced on the site has, at least to me, always served as educational entertainment. Their most famous work is probably Plinkett's Star Wars reviews which illustrate my point pretty well: They're extremely funny but also highlight the severe flaws in the prequel movies. So, since they produce content with entertainment as a desired result and they think burning the game might be fun and improves the entertainment value, then it's perfectly reasonable to do so. They're not in a position comparable to a Professor who is supposed to be constructive and somewhat objective in his criticism.

 

[Gintamen]

Let me give you another example.

Let's say you are university student and have handed in a paper you worked very hard on.
The professor takes out your paper in front the entire lecture room and proceeds to completely destroy it.

Hahaha, you are really trying to argue that this is comparable to a student-professor relationship?

 

[Eidan]

I tried to watch this, got nearly 4 minutes in but these guys are absolutely insufferable.

Hahaha Jack and Rich? I love the entire RLM crew.

 

[EBE]

what the fuck happened in here

 

[The Adder]

Adding in that line was stupid, agreed, made it way harder for people to disconnect with what he was doing. Game comes into problems like this because it has an identity crisis, it's trying to be a game and at the same time trying to be true to a story which doesn't work out all the time.

But there are so many ways to have that line and maintain internal consistency.

The ones I mentioned 2 posts ago.

Or have them actually get to the evidence in a stealth section before getting caught AND THEN have your big shooting gallery set piece.

Or at the very least don't have him brutally murder the fuck out of a dude who didn't know he was there. That cutscene was the perfect chance to have him KO the guy and take his gun, showing that, while he is killing people he would rather not, he's only killing the ones actively firing on him because that's his only option. He's trying to spare as many as possible because they may just be innicent men doing their job.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

You really don't realize how juvenile your comments sound?

You think there's a correlation between

I saw that bit. This is children's hour stuff. Grown men shouldn't be watching this nonsense. I've got no problem with some people disliking the game but I have got a problem with juvenile stuff like this.

These two are embarrassing.

and

"And they're also big doo-doo heads!"

You're a man of extremes.

 

[54-46!]

This vid kind of confirms the impression I had about the game all the way up to its release.

Also, watching this made me want to go back and play Gears 1.

 

[antitrop]

To go back to an earlier point, do people here really think this game is a cynical 'corporate art' cash-in like this review claims? Or did it have loftier ambitions and had to stitch its parts together in strange ways to make release?

I think it's a mixture of both.

Or did we somehow get the intended final product?

Completely doubtful.

 

[Toxi]

Of course they do and of course they're is inconsistency, it's a video game, stuff like shooting people is gonna happen. This game indeed takes it way too far in the sneaking missions because no one is firing on you at that point, you can knock them out if you wanted.

But if you're judging the game on its story and the game is trying to have a great story, you can't just excuse inconsistencies with "it's a video game".

I don't like the "it's just a video game" excuse anyway, but at least most games that invoke that excuse aren't actively trying to tell a well-crafted story.

 

[viveks86]

Adding in that line was stupid, agreed, made it way harder for people to disconnect with what he was doing. Game comes into problems like this because it has an identity crisis, it's trying to be a game and at the same time trying to be true to a story which doesn't work out all the time.

Exactly. Glad that you are seeing the issue. A lot of people still don't. I tried bringing this up a couple of times and was promptly dismissed by many that this is no different than suspension of disbelief in UC games. It's not, because the script smacks you in the head and forces you back to reality, unlike many other games. And when the following actions aren't consistent, it feels jarring as hell.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

To go back to an earlier point, do people here really think this game is a cynical 'corporate art' cash-in like this review claims? Or did it have loftier ambitions and had to stitch its parts together in strange ways to make release?

Or did we somehow get the intended final product?

No, I'd say there was enough effort in the graphical design that the team actually did make an effort. It's just that they failed to properly focus that effort combined with possible executive meddling that resulted in what actually turned out.

 

[CambriaRising]

To go back to an earlier point, do people here really think this game is a cynical 'corporate art' cash-in like this review claims? Or did it have loftier ambitions and had to stitch its parts together in strange ways to make release?

It's hard to say. Part of me wants to believe the latter, but then I see that Tesla gives you a rifle scope and they named the

Spoiler

traitor character who is a lycan, lucan.

 

[cakefoo]

Whatever, if you want to call it a serious review done by two serious video game reviewers, then go for it. If you knew anything about how Red Letter and Previously Recorded critique games and films, you'd really think otherwise.

Watch their review of Nightcrawler and Birdman if you think they're not serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ6ucixpqJo#t=4m0s (contains plot spoilers)

 

[GribbleGrunger]

GribbleGrunger you are one of the most transparent fanboys/trolls based on your previous posts. You make Chad Warden look like Phil Spencer.

Because I think these two are idiots? I liked (and posted on another forum) Angry Joe's review of The Order. I respect that guy even though I didn't agree entirely with what he said.

 

[antitrop]

No, I'd say there was enough effort in the graphical design that the team actually did make an effort. It's just that they failed to properly focus that effort combined with possible executive meddling that resulted in what actually turned out.

What do the graphic artists have to do with the story?

The game is judged as a whole, just because the graphic artists excelled in their position, doesn't mean the entire team was making the same effort.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Just imagine that if you watched it 3x already you would have been close to the boss battle in the order...

This thread is killing me.

Tryckser, you truly are a knight of nobility.