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[sleepykyo]

ITT people that are afraid of change

ITT people are so out of touch, they filter out legitimate criticism and facts while latching on whatever makes them feel better about themselves. It wouldn't have been that hard to find a better example when Treyarch already demonstrated that they're just as capable of handling Call of Duty as Infinity Ward.

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Fuck me. Why did I even bother thinking of Treyarch, you clearly just wanted to shit post.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

You can almost taste the implications of that image.

And it tastes salty

 

[MikeE21286]

DmC is a great game

 

[Ahasverus]

In OP's defense LOS1 was awesome and had greatness potential.

 

[GitarooMan]

Lords of Shadow is better than any of the handheld and 3d console Iga Castlevanias so yeah it can work. Tough to pull off though.

 

[Parakeetman]

I would actually be interested in seeing a western studio take a crack at a Metal Gear game just for shits and giggles.

I cant think of a studio they could get do it though. In a perfect world I would get Rocksteady on it but Warner own them.

you already have that and it was called splinter cell.

 

[Ganondorfo]

Metal Gear is a personal vision from Hideo himself, so if he stops with this franchise after Phantom Pain, Konami should also stop with this series. Because Metal Gear isnt a franchise like Sonic, Mario, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Halo that you could outsource to every other developer out there, because with these franchises it works, because they arent personal like Hideo did with its expanding Metal Gear saga he started in 1986 till september 2015.

 

[hamchan]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Haha OP so salty after everyone called him out, hilarious.

 

[IISANDERII]

I really liked DmC. Was it better than the original? Hell no.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Those DmC PowerPoint slides made me a bit upset and angry. Their points are so flawed in respect to an original design. No one is changing how Bayonetta looks. I think it follows the same line here. If you look at the DMC1 and DMC3 skins; the characters look reasonable from behind. They look so obscure from the front. I think they should have kept their original look. Dante looks just fine in that picture. He doesn't need a hoodie nor does he need to look like Brad Pitt. I think Ninja Theory doesn't get the appeal of that type of art. It's a shame because you don't hear them trying to continue something that's still in good fashion. They don't need to relate it IMO. I can skip about every single cutscene and enjoy DmC. I have to bypass all the level adjustments by doing it quickly, but I know for sure I had a better time with the characters in previous games. I think a lot of that will be shown when DMC4SE comes out. It happened with DMC3 when SE came out. It's still a solid game and I think Ninja Theories position of power gave them an ego.

 

[Dick Justice]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

 

[Human 2.0]

I never said DmC or LoS was "better"

Yes you did...

I was thinking about the whole Kojima/Konami situation this morning and granted I've never been a huge fan of MGS it does seem like a bad move for Konami to lose the father of Metal Gear but the more I think about it.... I think I may be warming up to the idea.

As the thread title suggests, there are instances where a change of hands could be for the better. After 4 mainline devil may cry games the formula became pretty stale imo so when DmC came it was a breath of fresh air. Same went for Castlevania, as much as I love metroidvania style games I was starting to get bored of the Iga games and so Lords of the Shadow came at just the right time.

I get that it bums the diehard fans out that have grown accustomed to a certain style of play or a certain style of writing from Kojima and his crew but sometimes a passing of the torch is necessary for fan favorite franchises to evolve. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the circumstances sound pretty bad, it may end up being for the best.

 

[SmithnCo]

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

The sodium is palpable.

 

[cooperma]

Notsureifserious.gif

 

[PooBone]

Metal Gear Solid has a lot more soul than either of those other franchises. That soul is arguably why the series has been so successful and so resonant with fans, and it is all 100% the doing of Kojima.

There is no way in which I see a Metal Gear game AFTER The Phantom Pain being interesting in the slightest. Maybe (I hope) I'm wrong.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Are you for real OP?

Should have been the first post. Those series totally fell from grace after the original creators left.

 

[monome]

Either the Next MG series is developped with major talent from an other publisher or Konami recruits hungry for fame industry veterans.

Anything else is seppuku.

If Konami is smart any rich publisher is an interested partner.

Metal Gear is a name That sells.

 

[MrDoctor]

Whoa! WHOA! I read the thread title and thought OP was talking about post-Kamiya and Iga. But it was really DmC and LOS?

what universe have i stumbled into

 

[Sadist]

Damn, just saw OP's reply... I don't know why he's acting like this; yes there is some snark in the thread, but there are some good arguments made by a lot of posters as well. It's not just Kojima leaving, but for me about the company he's leaving: Konami

I'll be honest, I haven't played every Konami release, but if you follow the many developments over the years at this publisher you'll notice a trend: it's mostly about Metal Gear these days. Sure, Konami has other releases but those aren't as popular compared to their flagship title. Maybe Pro Evolution Soccer, but even that franchise took a beating for several years after having a few fantastic years on PS2.

The real reason I fear for the future of the Metal Gear franchise is the total mismanagement of their other IP, in particular Silent Hill and Castlevania. I mean after SH4 The Room was released Konami decided to disband Team Silent and afterwards they have absolutely no idea what to do with the series. 'Let's give it to some western studio. Why? Good question. We don't know either' Except for Climax's Silent Hill Origins and Silent Hill Shattered Memories (which divided fans as well) Konami botched every release. Homecoming wasn't well received, Downpour is seen as mediocre, the Vita spin-off was... well, strange. Best of all, the HD remaster of 2 and 3 was a horrible mess that couldn't be patched. Why would you release it like this?

As for Castlevania; while Lords of Shadows is pretty good, the last few releases got a lot of negative press as well. Both Mirror of Fate and Lords of Shadows 2 were deemed mediocre and/or bad by fans and press alike. That's not working at all.

And now it's Metal Gear's turn. Sure, the series is Konami's flagship title and it will receive more budget/care than Silent Hill and Castlevania ever get, but looking back at the past few years it doesn't spark much confidence in the future of the series. And that's mostly Konami's fault.

 

[Mr Rivuz]

Because DMC is just decent and LOS games are garbage.

 

[Dick Justice]

Damn, just saw OP's reply... I don't know why he's acting like this; yes there is some snark in the thread, but there are some good arguments made by a lot of posters as well.

Saltiness due to thread backfire. Responding with personal insults is a common ailment among people who are insecure with their own opinions.

 

[FreeMufasa]

the gaf hivemind has spoken. franchises can't experiment or give other devs a shot with their beloved characters. this is law.

smh at this thread so hard.

I never said DmC or LoS was "better" I just said it was an interesting change of pace and that they certainly were not broken or terrible if approached with an open mind.

clearly though I'm in the wrong because I have a life outside of video games and don't have time to play every entry in an overrated franchise.

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

 

[GuardianE]

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

Yep. That's the way to learn. Just assume your perspective is better than everyone else's and turn a blind eye to legitimate commentary.

 

[Skilletor]

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

Devs and publishers are definitely willing to throw away a fanbase's good will in an attempt to chase some imaginary more profitable, nonexistant fanbase.

 

[Zolo]

Devs and publishers are definitely willing to throw away a fanbase's good will in an attempt to chase some imaginary more profitable, nonexistant fanbase.

You'll are just mad that the 360 Shadowrun game tried some experimentation.

 

[gfxtwin]

Serioiusly though, do all of you who think MGS is undoubtedly doomed without Kojima's direction not realize that there are lots of classic games in a franchise that were made by someone who wasn't the creator of the series? Like Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry 3, Bayonetta 2, Castlevania SOTN, Final Fantasy X, Fallout 3, God of War 2, etc.

 

[Comfort Jones]

You'll are just mad that the 360 Shadowrun game tried some experimentation.

Hey remember when they did an actual Shadowrun game and people actually bought it?

That was neat.

 

[Feltrol]

I think both of those games were worse than their predecessors.

/thread

 

[antisoulless]

Wat?

Seriously. This is insane. All those reboots were awful awful games. If you want some stupid style like that, then take some dead franchise and revive it like that.

Castlevania in 3D could work perfectly if it were metroidvania style. NOT GOD OF WAR STYLE.

DmC was different. As it was basically the same game, but different.

I hate reboots. Hate them.

 

[YoYo Switch]

Those are...bad examples

 

[Astral Dog]

Serioiusly though, do all of you who think MGS is undoubtedly doomed without Kojima's direction not realize that there are lots of classic games in a franchise that were made by someone who wasn't the creator of the series? Like Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry 3, Bayonetta 2, Castlevania SOTN, Final Fantasy X, Fallout 3, God of War 2, etc.

Well yes but Kojima adds a personal touch to the Metal Gears, he designs the gameplay, characters, plot, etc.
Also, these games were designed mostly under the same team, or in other cases a very talented team under the same company.

Kamiya was handpicked by Mikami, Hashimoto was handpicked by Kamiya, all tried to add their own spin but respecting the original games or series.

Also there is still rumors that not only Kojima, but a significant part of his team is leaving, that said, yes a Metal Gear without Kojima can turn out fine, but Konami recent story doesnt inspire confidence : Castlevania, Silent Hill, Contra, everything else,

 

[gfxtwin]

Well Castlevania:LOS was not a bad game, just kinda derivative. Probably the best 3D Castlevania though. It just needed to have more castle and less ideas nicked from other games and it would have been amazing. Going by P.T., Silent Hills had potential to be one of the scariest games ever. Guess we'll never know for sure.

Both those games had Kojima as a co-director and/or producer. Man, Konami is screwed lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

This post is going to look pretty stupid when Capcom brings out DMC5...

 

[Saintguine]

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

Yeah Capcom is going to put out a sequel to a game that sold around half the copies a "failed" game sold.

 

[Meia]

Ignore em. just take solace in the fact most devs and publishers are on our wavelength and not theire

Yep, devs never make sweeping changes to game series that wind up killing off the franchises, and sometimes the studios, themselves.


PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT DEAD SPACE 3 BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

 

[call_kotaku]

This post is going to look pretty stupid when Capcom brings out DMC5...

They won't, though

Spoiler

Unless it's for iOS

 

[Astral Dog]

people are focused too much on the sales of DmC, its always a point when discussing its failure, but, compared to other games on the genre it has decent sales and gathered a strong fanbase, while keeping a certain quality.
Of course it sold less than the other DMC games, but if this was another series or company, it would be viewed as successful, 1.6 million was not that bad, it should be close to 2 million now.

 

[skLaFarebear]

It did work for DMC and Castlevania.

DMC switching from Kamiya to Itsuno put out arguably the best action game of all time in DMC3 and giving Igarashi the Castlevania series created a whole new sub-genre (Metroidvania) and one of the greatest PS1 games in Castlevania: SotN.

The examples in the OP are terrible though and serve to how this change didn't work and would kill Metal Gear if it followed the same path.

 

[Dremark]

Serioiusly though, do all of you who think MGS is undoubtedly doomed without Kojima's direction not realize that there are lots of classic games in a franchise that were made by someone who wasn't the creator of the series? Like Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry 3, Bayonetta 2, Castlevania SOTN, Final Fantasy X, Fallout 3, God of War 2, etc.

Personally I feel the reason Metal Gear is doomed without Kojima is that I have zero confidence in Konami as a whole at this point.

I feel the reason why Metal Gear has remained a quality series is because of the pull he had so even with other series being abandoned it completely ruined, he had enough stroke he could continue to do what he did.

This doesn't mean that someone else couldn't have taken the series over, I fully expected Kojima to hand the reigns off eventually when he felt like his staff could manage, but in this scenario I still believed he'd be overseeing development, and more importantly using his influence to protect their work from the incompetent suits who would otherwise destroy it.

I do think that even in this case it would feel a bit different and in general it would be best if the creator of a series got to continue to work on it though.

 

[gfxtwin]

Personally I feel the reason Metal Gear is doomed without Kojima is that I have zero confidence in Konami as a whole at this point.

I feel the reason why Metal Gear has remained a quality series is because of the pull he had so even with other series being abandoned it completely ruined, he had enough stroke he could continue to do what he did.

This doesn't mean that someone else couldn't have taken the series over, I fully expected Kojima to hand the reigns off eventually when he felt like his staff could manage, but in this scenario I still believed he'd be overseeing development, and more importantly using his influence to protect their work from the incompetent suits who would otherwise destroy it.

I do think that even in this case it would feel a bit different and in general it would be best if the creator of a series got to continue to work on it though.

I hear you, his work definitely feels more like that of an auteur than many game directors, even his peers creating of AAA game franchises. That's why I'm hoping if there is a new MGS game it's part of a new saga that only plays like previous games and carries the spirit of his storytelling. There's not many creative directors and teams out there who can put together games that absolutely no other game developer can come close to duplicating - Hideo Kojima, Fumito Ueda, Suda 51, Tim Schafer, Lorne Lanning and a handful of others on that list.

If it's any consolation, it could be much worse - at least Kojima's MGS saga already has an ending. Everything since MGS4 is pretty much just fleshing out the mythos. Pretty lucky in that regard, since a lot of beloved story-based IPs end on cliffhangers when the auteur moves on to make something else.

Also, keep in mind that Konami is a major business and like most businesses they play the press game. You only know that their PR folks want you to know. And knowing how smart Kojima is, it wouldn't surprise me if he knew which way the winds at konami were blowing in mid or early development of TPP and allowed himself to construct an satisfying conclusion with few if any loose ends.

Many great game developers in podcast interviews have described the game development process as a very fluid, in the moment type way or working where the direction of the project can change at any moment. So, if nothing else, MGS fans might be able to rest easy knowing that Kojima will leave us with a complete version of the experience he envisioned for much of his career.

And now the exciting part: After nearly 30 years of seeing what he can do with one IP, now there's a strong possibility that we'll finally get to see what a fresh AAA original IP from an industry rock star who's spent his career mastering one will look like.