Dating someone with 'Bad genes'
- Thread starter Loofy
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David Incorporated Esq.
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squidhands
Member
It's important to have conversations with people you profess to love that have the potential for brutal honesty. Not always, of course, but in a case like this topic of children and genetic lines, knowing what both parties want and should expect if they were to marry is a key lifetime event.
Let's go with your scenario, and you just bullshit your way out of a relationship that was apparently fine apart from the fact that her problematic family genes may pass down to your future children. Do you think your gf is an idiot, that she wouldn't figure out that there was SOME reason why you just turned tail and ran? Of course she would, and you'd be the fool if you think she couldn't figure out why.
Now, since you're concerned with how she feels, think about the next time she gets into a serious relationship with someone. How eager do you think she'll feel about introducing another potential coward to her family based off of that experience? It's already got to be a little nerve-wracking to introduce someone to a sibling with a genetic handicap.
I'd rather have an actual compassionate conversation about it, and it would certainly be after a visit to a pediatrician to find out EXACTLY what our options as a family would be.
You are still making a choice not to be with someone if you don't find them attractive, the difference is that it's something you are aware of upfront. When you choose a partner based in part on physical attraction, you are selecting on the basis of genes.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting to produce healthy children of your own. The adoption idea was just an alternate idea I was throwing out there. With that said, it does not sound in this case like producing children of their own was looked into in any great detail with consultations with doctors and the like.
Ah, I see. That makes sense, but does seem different. You could fall for someone, marry, and have kids with them, and not realize (not do they) that there's a problem. Some things just fly under the radar medically/genetically. Or there's a fluke and your kid has something now despite no medical history of it.
I do get your point, but it seems a bit different to me. Just in how I process and perceive it. But then again, looks aren't everything (to me personally), as I find myself physically attracted with a combination of things, personality and character tending to be foremost. Which sounds super cliche, I know lol
-Plasma Reus-
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What if your friend turned out to be infertile.
IISANDERII
Member
Yep, simple as that. I would do anything to avoid my kids to have any kind of health concern.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Pretty much this, and I'm saying it as someone that doesn't want kids at all.
That would be even worse, in my opinion. It would mean eugenics for those who can afford it: perfect, disease-free children for the wealthy, even shittier, disease-ridden lives for the poor. The will be no more research to fight diseases, because those can be prevented by picking the right genes at conception. But of course, only the wealthy will be able to do it. The rest will continue to suffer and continue to die.
I am against eugenics. But if it had to happen, I would like the government to regulate the shit out of it.
Bubbavelli
Banned
OP how is it being friends with Hitler? How well does he tip?
I absolutely do not have to. If I think the decisions of someone is abhorrent, their values are of no consequence to me - their decisions are terrible and that's that.
As I said earlier, this guy gave up his "perfect" because of a "maybe". That's idiotic at best.
In regards to the ethics of having a kid with someone who could pass down potential issues, there are none that apply. Ethics are too personal. However anyone can be judged for their personal ethics, which is what we're all doing here, whether for or against him.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Prick move but I see where he is coming from.
There are no guarantees, I hope that he knows that.
There are no guarantees, I hope that he knows that.
I do believe in vitro fertilization is a perfectly reasonable solution in this case. So he wants his own kids, test eggs for the genetic disease before it's given the green light.
So yes, he's a prick because he didn't care enough to look into how to make it work before running away screaming. Guess she wasn't the girl of his dreams after all.
I must have missed that day in history class where he ran away from marry 6 million Jews.
UnluckyKate
Member
I can talk about this. I carry bad mutation, making my heart very weak. I have roughly 50/50 chances to give it to each of my kids. Now : I have to come forward to any girl I date : I can't do sports, I can't carry her and bang her against the wall, I can't go hike mountain trails and stuff. I met girls that didn't mind. I met others that were a bit annoyed and clearly felt frustrated that I couldn't do much.
I had several serious relations. Once in particular, we talk our future, about potential engagement, potential kids. You know, to prepare things, we talked if. She was very old fashioned and refuse to imagine having kids by selection good genes. She wanted it the traditional way. Of course that would leave the kid a 50/50 chance to be born with a crippling heart issue. I wasn't sure I was okay with that. We broke up for different reasons, but this debate will occur again if I find another girl to live with.
I had several serious relations. Once in particular, we talk our future, about potential engagement, potential kids. You know, to prepare things, we talked if. She was very old fashioned and refuse to imagine having kids by selection good genes. She wanted it the traditional way. Of course that would leave the kid a 50/50 chance to be born with a crippling heart issue. I wasn't sure I was okay with that. We broke up for different reasons, but this debate will occur again if I find another girl to live with.
That's exactly what I was thinking haha. If they went through the trouble of looking into what kinds of genes she held then yeah, it matters.
If he breaks up with her for it, it's a good thing he does it then than after having kids or getting married. If anything, if it bothered him and he pretended it didn't, then he would probably be with someone else along the lines in the future.
This is a very legit reason to break up. Not everyone has to be be into adopting before they are tied together.
Eye for an Eye
Member
As someone that IS a carrier of a dominant disorder, Fragile X, that's kind of what happens. But a little more complex.
There is a world of genetic carriers out there, although most people have recessive disorders.
Recessive disorders require a copy from both parents to be affected. There's a 25% chance of a baby being affected, 50% chance of being a carrier, and 25% chance of not being a carrier/affected. Carriers are not affected by the gene.
Dominant disorders only need to pass from one parent to the child to be affected. It's considered 50/50 odds. Either the good gene is passed or the bad gene. Fragile X expands as it passes down going from a grey area to a premutation and eventually a full mutation. I have a premutation of 150 repeats, so I have 98% chance of having a full mutation child.
I've tried naturally twice and terminated both pregnancies. While testing can be done at 11 weeks, it generally takes 2-4 weeks for results. My second one took 6 weeks for full results.
IVF is usually the second alternative bit it's costly and few companies offer full IVF coverage. It can run about 33,000 grand for 3 cycles and 1 round of testing (up to 8 embryos). Many wind up with only one or two genetically normal embryos after a "sucessful" cycle.
If it's from the male side, sperm donation is much cheaper and easier to obtain a pregnancy. Egg donation is just as expensive as IVF really.
Embryo adoption is about 12,000 for up to three tries. But you also do not know the genetic make up.
And adoption is a really tough road to go down unless you have a lot of money. But even then some go out of country because the US system is so fucked up.
I understand where the guy is coming from tbh. As cold as it sounds, raising a mentally disabled kid is kind of 'worst fear' material for me.
With that said, I definitely would have spoken to a doctor first to find out if it was detectable in the early stages of the pregnancy, etc, and would also actually have a freaking conversation with the girl to find out how she felt about it all. The scary thing though is that at the end of the day the choice to have an abortion would solely lie with her, and even if she agreed today there's no guarantee she wouldn't change her mind tomorrow. So I totally get it.
With that said, I definitely would have spoken to a doctor first to find out if it was detectable in the early stages of the pregnancy, etc, and would also actually have a freaking conversation with the girl to find out how she felt about it all. The scary thing though is that at the end of the day the choice to have an abortion would solely lie with her, and even if she agreed today there's no guarantee she wouldn't change her mind tomorrow. So I totally get it.
The Shadow
Member
(mic drop)
terrisus
Member
Cameron122
Member
Ok so I have cerebral palsy
But I have a good jawline and an above average IQ. Can we bang?
But I have a good jawline and an above average IQ. Can we bang?
until we can develop designer babies it is silly to think about "genes"
Always-honest
Banned
Sounds like your friend was born 55 years late and in the wrong country.
Maybe in ten years we will be able to compare genes by holding our iphones against eachother.
This way we will get a nice purified human race. Filter out all the people who "might" get some condition in the future.
Maybe your friend can be king of these people.
Maybe in ten years we will be able to compare genes by holding our iphones against eachother.
This way we will get a nice purified human race. Filter out all the people who "might" get some condition in the future.
Maybe your friend can be king of these people.
Pyrrhus
Member
What he did was perhaps cold and calculating, but it was not wrong. And I doubt it was easy for him if he really considered this girl to be marriage material. All the venom from young, unattached and deliberately childfree people is foolish. Kids are a big deal. Genetic diseases are a big deal. Kids with genetic diseases, depending on the disease, will have poor lives themselves, will ruin your life, and may well mean the end of your line. Of course you're already drafting the furious response that it's selfish to want to have biological children of your own and that the actual parentage of the children you sacrifice your youth and wealth and personal dreams and finite lifespan to the raising of doesn't matter. I'm glad you're so enlightened, but to most people, it most definitely matters.
This guy caused a little heartache now but likely prevented a great deal of it later. It was a responsible decision though probably a difficult one.
This guy caused a little heartache now but likely prevented a great deal of it later. It was a responsible decision though probably a difficult one.
Different diseases have different severity and inheritance rates. I don't think it's silly at all to ignore those two pieces of information.
SneakyStephan
Banned
He couldn't just adopt or they couldn't test for it early in the pregnancy? Can't they do IVF and select a bunch of eggs without the gene?
Deified Data
Banned
I don't intend to procreate, therefore this has never been a concern of mine.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
I agree 100%. Everyone calling this guy a coward and a prick are really missing the point.
NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO ADOPT. I want my kids to have my genes, making sure those genes are mostly problem free is really fucking important.
And get the fuck out of here with the Hitler comparisons. Wanting to ensure your baby isn't born with potentially life threatening genetic defects is NOT the same as eugenics and wanting a baby with blonde hair and blue eyes.
PhoenixDark
Banned
If I had a sickle cell gene I sure as hell wouldn't marry someone who also had the gene.
I think the hate is coming from both sides. I'm in the childfree camp, and I think he's in the right. He may have been a little hasty (not considering genetic counseling) but it's hard to tell from the OP. I've seen so many families struggle to deal with hardships due to medical issues / kids. I don't blame him for wanting to avoid that.
I disagree. We are at a point where it is quite simple to check for a wide scope of well known and severe genetic disorders (for those who fear family risk) and assess your chances/options with professionals. Nothing wrong or silly about that, and you may still do what suits you best using that information.
As for thinking about the genes of your partner for the sake of your future junior having an ace jawline and a DHT proof scalp, yes, I would consider that silly myself. But I do not see the harm nor sillyness of riskgroups choosing to look into their chances/options for said cases of severe and life-hampering disorders.
Your friend had the right to not be in a relationship that he didn't want to be in. If he wants to have his own biological kids, then let him. And if the chance for a disabled child was so high, that he broke up with someone he loved, then I think everyone in that situation has benefited from that decision. Some people aren't able to handle that responsibility. I'm sure quite a few GAF members aren't; I'm sure even more want biological kids. It's sort of self-serving to just throw out "Adopt!" so haphazardly. You may feel that that's the correct and moral decision, but it's likely a decision that you wouldn't(and don't have to) make. There is nothing wrong with what he did.
Some of these posts are ridiculous. Comparing him to a Nazi, even jokingly, is completely uncalled for.
Some of these posts are ridiculous. Comparing him to a Nazi, even jokingly, is completely uncalled for.
The guy probably already had general worries about his future children already, and finding out about a genetic issue like the one his SO might be carrying -- which may or may not increase the chances of his kids having problems -- was just too much. He is likely freaked out by the responsibility which entails, which I'm sure most people would avoid given the choice.
I'm not in a space where I'd be having kids right now, but if I'm honest my kids being born with any kind of severe disorder is something that gnaws at the back of my mind from time to time, nothing against those who do end up with these problems of course.
A lot of assumptions are being tossed around in this thread.
I'm not in a space where I'd be having kids right now, but if I'm honest my kids being born with any kind of severe disorder is something that gnaws at the back of my mind from time to time, nothing against those who do end up with these problems of course.
A lot of assumptions are being tossed around in this thread.
Passing the genes is serious bussiness in gaf
Napoleonthechimp
Member
What if those bad genes lead to a potential immunity to some other debilitating disorder or future contagion?
DoktorEvil
Banned
.
That's been a hot topic with a couple of recent dates. I mention not thinking about kids and the mood goes flat.
Please don't let this conversation go into eugenics...
Glass Rebel
Member
seriously though, without bringing adoption (or the possibility for abortion) into this, it's hard to assess the situation without knowing exactly what kind of disease it was.
terrisus
Member
I'm middle-aged, married, and not deliberately childfree.
"will ruin your life?"
Well, that's a pretty shitty way to look at things.
Yeah, for the girl - to either be stuck with a jerk, waste time on him and then have him leave, or have him impregnate her (and who says his genes are even all that great either?) and then possibly leave.
This is a somewhat fair point.
I have a severly handicapped sister and since a year I share full responsabilty with my parents (and since my parents aren't getting any younger, her care gradually shifts to me). And she is a really significant part of my life, of my family. So yes, I fully agree, this is a very big deal. I won't call it ruining (my parents are genuinely happy, succesful in terms of career and social life and proud of both me and my sister), but I cannot deny significant impact.
However, if you are in a relationship almost to the point of marriage, I think one might call it decent towards your partner to talk about the problem and look at your options together. Like I said, genetic analysis and IFV can be an option. Healthy donor egg cells can also be an option. The woman does not pass on her genes, but still bears the child and the man gets a full biological offspring. Looking at the odds and preparing for measurements in the case of a defective geneset is possible, too.
(semi-related sidenote: as for myself, my own genes are "good", since they looked at them because of my sister).
dead souls
Member
I have no desire to ever have children, so I couldn't care less.
gutter_trash
Banned
just adopt or don't have kids
if I met the love of my life and she was healthy but has bad genes, then we won't have kids then
if I met the love of my life and she was healthy but has bad genes, then we won't have kids then
Kids are a big deal and people have the right to make informed choices about having them, yes.
You seem to skip the part where genetic diseases can come out of the woodwork, even for healthy parents, due to the way things work with recessions and mutations, and even with having a disease there is no guarantee of passing it on anyways. So if your child is born with an issue, he's just an automatic problem and burden then? He/she couldn't help it, but now they're ruining your life! How inconsiderate of them.
Do you know that people believe this way by the way, or just assume because they are more challenging for families? Have parents with children with issues come to you and literally said "This kid is ruining my life?" Or is that what you infer because you wouldn't want that yourself? And who's to say the kid won't find joy in their own life and existing? But you've already determined they must be miserable, so there's that resolved.
Also, assuming you don't believe in any higher order/power/purpose, so your lineage dies...who cares? You're dead someday and it won't matter what happens afterwards anyway.
bananafactory
Banned
Seems like he should have talked with a doctor rather than just ditching her.
I rate that a 8.2/10 on the douchemove scale
I rate that a 8.2/10 on the douchemove scale
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