You already have a fully usable keyboard. It's called an iPhone.
I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't understand that a smartwatch will always have certain limitations. This is one of them that will never be conquered.
Apple Watch |OT| Apple invents the watch!
- Thread starter SuperPac
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I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't understand that a smartwatch will always have certain limitations. This is one of them that will never be conquered.
SuperPac
Member
Have you gone to a try-on appointment for the watch yet? It is small. Like, real small. Even on the 42mm I do not see how you could put a useable keyboard on that thing. At that point, pull your phone out.
I kind of get what you're saying, but the best thing I e always loved about iOS is the lack of physical buttons for controls. Once you start adding too many functions or giving developers access things become way too inconsistent from app to app. In this case though doesn't pressing the crown take you to the home screen? That seems odd to not be able to get to notifications with like a swipe or two from anywhere on the watch.
Keyboard HAS to be conquered eventually. How are you going to have a native Instagram app for example if you can't even type in your username and password to log into their service?
Eventually they're gonna have to eliminate the need for an iPhone just like they eliminated the need for iPhones to connect to computers.
Have you gone to a try-on appointment for the watch yet? It is small. Like, real small. Even on the 42mm I do not see how you could put a useable keyboard on that thing. At that point, pull your phone out.
Yeah I did try one on. It's going to be extremely difficult to get a keyboard on such a tiny screen and it obviously won't be any fun to type on, but I'm sure they can figure out a way to get some kind of basic text entry working. I feel like they sorta have to. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something by next year, certainly within 3 years.
Except Microsoft already did it on a much smaller screen and it works really well.
http://youtu.be/eE_RFdZhSEo
Oh god that looks fucking awful.
Except it's not. Why bad mouth something you have never tried? Christ, heaven forbid someone did something successfully that wasn't Apple.
I never said it was awful but that it looked awful. I'll admit that he got his work out but it would have been 10x faster to just dictate it. I'm sure it kinda gets the job done but at that point I might as well pull out my iPhone.
SuperPac
Member
Yeah with native apps, hmmm. I would imagine via the iPhone - either the Apple Watch app on the iPhone in Instagram (Watch) preferences or it will use the same application file/save data on the phone to log in first and then you're off and running.
I'm interested to see how they would do this. I don't see it happening. Like you said, it won't be any fun to type on. Maybe for usernames and passwords but to compose email? Just pull your phone out.
Got the Shakes
Member
My assumption would be that you still enter those details on your iPhone and they get transferred to the Watch app. Remember that even with native Watch apps you are going through your iPhone to install them to the Apple Watch.
I didn't mean to jump down your throat, but you sounded pretty dismissive.
The point of a keyboard that is functional is to make quick responses in some cases. The band also does voice dictation to respond as well. Of course you need a windows phone for it though.
99% of the time I would probably just take my phone out like most people, but it's nice to be able to respond from the watch as well. I have an iPhone so I don't get these functions on my band but I have tried them with my old windows phone. Apple will no doubt put a keyboard on the next gen or have a software update to do it.
That's wider though, right? i mean, it does look extremely awkward but I'd imagine the wider viewing area at least makes it functional. Not sure if that really applies to a square watch.
It just looks very awkward and intuitive but I'm sure you can learn it. However I'm not convinced it would work as well on a square screen either. It looks like something that exists just for the pure reason to check off another checkbox on a list of features. I might be totally wrong on that of course and it might be amazing but from a glance it doesn't sell me on it. Would gladly like to try it but I don't know any place that carries that band around me.
I'll also note that I think the Microsoft Hardware devision is second only to Apple. The Surface 3, Lumia Phones etc are amazing devices and if I wasn't extremely invested in Apple or such a whore for their designs and software I would prolly be the biggest MS fanboy.
This isn't always an option though, some messages you obviously wouldn't want to dictate in a public setting (church for example). And of course dictation isn't always perfect and often requires corrections. It's just nice to have another option even if it's not the ideal/preferred method.
I'm interested to see how they would do this. I don't see it happening. Like you said, it won't be any fun to type on. Maybe for usernames and passwords but to compose email? Just pull your phone out.
Yeah obviously it wouldn't be used for typing out long messages or emails. But if someone texts you "where are we gonna meet for drinks tonight?", you could respond with "Bdubs 10pm" or whatever.
These are temporary solutions though that require an iPhone. I expect this is how it'll work when native apps are first launched, but it can't function that way forever.
Think of all the millions of non-iPhone users who might be interested in the Apple Watch but not enough to switch ecosystems for it. Eliminating the need for an iPhone has to be one of Apple's big priorities going forward imo, especially since Android Wear watches will soon work with both ecosystems. The Apple Watch has to become a device that can function standalone and a native keyboard is a big part of that.
Got the Shakes
Member
If you are talking about eliminating the need for a phone all together, there would be much bigger hurdles to clear before a built in keyboard is the biggest issue. They'd presumably need to build an app store specific to Apple Watch that could be accessed from the watch itself. I actually think Apple is the company that takes the approach not where they look at millions of non-iphone users as customers, but they look at it as the Apple Watch is something that will draw people to switch to iPhones. I'm not saying they're right about that, just that I think they partially jumped into the watch business as a way to keep people in the iOS ecosystem and as a way to try and get Android users to defect.
This is a device made to sell iPhones.
Pops Maellard
Member
People aren't going to switch ecosystems for a smart watch, and honestly I don't think Apple cares for the immediate future. It's incredibly likely that Apple sold more Watches in the first day of preorders than Android Wear totaled in sales all of 2014.
SuperPac
Member
Well, I don't agree - I don't think the watch has a keyboard problem Apple *needs* to solve. Probably not even when there are native apps for it. And while I'm sure the Apple Watch will eventually become a device you can more fully use without your iPhone nearby - I do not think Apple has its sights set on people who don't own iPhones any more than Android Wear manufacturers think they could sell to iPhone owners. (And yes despite the rumors Google has Android Wear "working" on iPhones.) They see the Apple Watch as a reason people might switch to iOS to get.
The Teachinator
Banned
I actually disagree and it see it more as an effort that might keep people from taking that "What if..." Android leap.
Maybe, but that's a big maybe. I said it before, but I think the first production runs were pretty conservative. Probably around 300k-500k. Selling out online into June doesn't really mean anything. Even Microsofts Band sold out in under an hour and only is now starting to get easy to find. Not saying it's comparable or anything sales wise, but Apple is playing the supply game here.
According to bloggers and tech sites, the demand in actual Apple stores to check out the watch hasn't been too large.
LyleLanley
Banned
Keyboards? If you see a keyboard...they blew it.
I think Apple is delusional if they truly believe people will switch phones just to use their watch. It's already a big deal asking people to spend hundreds of dollars on a watch, but then requiring another $200+ iPhone on top of that is just too much to ask.
They are going about things the wrong way here. The Apple Watch should function standalone and be such a great experience that it makes people want to willingly switch to iPhones and purchase other Apple products.
No, it really doesn't. It's a complimentary device with design limitations that will forever prevent how far it can go. Much like iPhone will never replace an actual computer, an Apple Watch will never replace a smartphone. Dependency might reduce, but it's never something you'll be entirely free from. It can't do everything and it's obviously not trying to.
Wow, you leave your phone on to get messages in church? That's even more ballsy than using your phone at the movies. So in this situation, the ideal/preferred solution is to wait til you're not in fucking church to answer a message, but if you must, perhaps use your phone, since it would be significantly quicker.
Sure it can. I can tell you with near certainty that smartwatch manufacturers are in no hurry to kill the smartphone and Apple is no exception.
Anyone interested in an Apple Watch is 90% likely to have already been interested in an ecosystem switch, since Apple Watch entices people to buy it for the same reasons that the iPhone entices people to buy it. Let's not pretend that's not true.
As for Android Wear working with iOS, Apple will keep their watch relevant with better performance and exclusive interoperability functions that Android Wear will never be able to provide to an iPhone user. Much in the same way that Apple will never be able to provide an optimal iTunes experience that matches the experience on the Mac to Windows users. It will always be below par.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
^After seeing the thing in person I 100% believe some people will want to wear it regardless of the fact it's a computer. I really don't think being established in the iOS ecosystem is a prerequisite. Obviously most people getting the watch will be iPhone users already but now that I've seen how nice it is in person I have no question some people will *just want* it and make the switch because of it.
They just had an entire iOS cycle that added barely anything if you didn't have other Apple devices, everything is centered around you getting several Apple products now.
The watch will never be fully functional without the phone, this has been the concept of wearable from the start. As it evolves, some functions will become standalone I'm sure, but I doubt most of it will work without an iDevice in Bluetooth range.
Apple is selling you a fluid experience and ecosystem. You can seamlessly take calls on your iPad or Mac, continue reading that long PDF from your Mac on the iPad and vice versa. Everything is connected and works together.
They're mostly leveraging the iPhone's popularity/market share to sell everything else, but the strategy works starting from any one device to another since they're all interconnected into the same ecosystem. iPhones are just ridiculous sellers and people are more likely to have that than the other products.
The interesting point of the potential of the watch though is this:
People feel they need a phone, whatever phone it is it's a somewhat logical enough reason, it's just thought of as a necessity. If the watch can trigger the just want nerve, it can trump the usual logic, like making a decision with your heart instead of your head or something. People buy stupid things all the time just cause they want it, not cause they need it. If someone isn't wedded to Android or whatever else and lusts after the watch (and have the disposable income) it's not necessarily a going to be a big deal to switch for it.
...whether things will shake out like that with the general populace, who knows.
And as far as the whole keyboard subject, one trick with tiny keyboards like the MS Band's is autocorrect. So it might be ok for prose but I'm not sure it'd work for logins/passwords as mentioned. Anyway if you have the time to type that shit out on there in church you can probably just pull out your phone to do it much faster for anything longer than a few letters. You should have your phone out anyway with the bible app of your choice open to follow along with the pastor!
To make the Apple Watch work without the iPhone would take much beefier hardware to run native apps, a cellular modem that would eat up the battery, as well as a GPS device that would eat up the battery. I think we are many many years away from the development of a standalone Apple Watch.
Could they make they make Apple Watch work with Android phones? Maybe, if Google allowed them to. But I suspect they don't really want to be responsible for supporting 500+ different Android configurations.
If anything, I think it's far more likely that Google is going to bust ass to make their operating system work with Apple Watch rather than the other way around. They are only interested in pushing their platform and don't care about moving hardware.
Could they make they make Apple Watch work with Android phones? Maybe, if Google allowed them to. But I suspect they don't really want to be responsible for supporting 500+ different Android configurations.
If anything, I think it's far more likely that Google is going to bust ass to make their operating system work with Apple Watch rather than the other way around. They are only interested in pushing their platform and don't care about moving hardware.
Huh? An iWatch that works 'without the iPhone' is not necessarily the same thing as a 'standalone' iWatch. The Pebble works 'without the iPhone' and doesn't have a cellular modem nor GPS. All the iWatch needs to work without the iPhone is native apps, which is already promised for before the end of this year for this very model, and a willingness to accept a data connection from any source. I think we'll have an iWatch that works 'without the iPhone' soon if only because there are other Apple devices (iPad, Mac,
Not sure what you mean here. There aren't 500+ different Android configurations that need to be individually supported. Even if Apple didn't have Google's permission, it's not needed because Android is open so Apple can bypass that and easily make iWatch work if they wanted to.
Not sure what you mean here. Google has already busted their ass to make Android open so anybody can work with. Pebble works with AndroidWear notifications for example. The ball is in Apple's court.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
in the verge review
Yeah, From what I know it seems like pressing the digital crown should take you to the watch app and force touching the watch app should take you to the app screen.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Depends. If it uses BT 4 low power protocol probably not that much. Can't imagine it doesn't as protocol 3 is quite power consuming.
Same color if not a shade lighter.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I've always assumed it was the same color but that the smaller sizes make you perceive it differently. Four square feet of hot pink looks different than four square inches of hot pink.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
So Gruber mentioned that the digital crown itself has haptic feedback in that it tightens when you bounce a list view.. Is this true?
I kept trying to feel it at the demo unit, but I couldn't tell if it was the placebo effect or not.
I'm 95% sure its true. I felt it tighten. But I have a really good imagination too and don't trust myself.
I kept trying to feel it at the demo unit, but I couldn't tell if it was the placebo effect or not.
I'm 95% sure its true. I felt it tighten. But I have a really good imagination too and don't trust myself.
I'm assuming that there are certain OS-level functions that Apple would need access to if they wanted to replicate iPhone functionality -- using the camera, the GPS, reading and writing to the contacts list, etc. Maybe Google would lock their app out of those functions, but probably not. Getting platform-specific features like Siri or ApplePay to be interoperable might cause problems. Apparently Android devices have been made to work with the Apple Watch -- so what happens if I try to use ApplePay or Siri on an Apple Watch paired to an Android phone?
I mostly just suspect that Apple doesn't want to deal with testing, questions, or support issues that might be related to having a multitude of hardware configurations. "Why doesn't X feature work with my Galaxy S3?" If the push for Android interoperability comes from Google and Apple never "officially" supports Android devices, that absolves Apple of all those issues.
This discussion was sparked by someone who claimed that Apple had to solve the keyboard problem with a "native solution". Which at least to me implied that they would have to somehow come up with truly standalone model that doesn't involve a using any type of phone for text input.
Thanks
I feel like space gray always looks darker in product shots but in real life feels almost silver to me :/
I only asked because the IRL pics posted in this thread look pretty damn dark. They changed gold from the 5s to the 6 so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't think it was dark when I saw it yesterday.
Maybe the fact that glances and notications are only accessible through the watch face seems like a design flaw right now because there aren't native apps. Notifs and Glances are the whole thing currently, so it seems weird they're hidden by another UI layer.. but maybe we will actually find cause to use the app screen next year.
Also I remember in September them showing the ability to build different honeycomb clusters of apps almost like different homescreens but I wasn't able to do that on the demo unit.
Maybe the fact that glances and notications are only accessible through the watch face seems like a design flaw right now because there aren't native apps. Notifs and Glances are the whole thing currently, so it seems weird they're hidden by another UI layer.. but maybe we will actually find cause to use the app screen next year.
Also I remember in September them showing the ability to build different honeycomb clusters of apps almost like different homescreens but I wasn't able to do that on the demo unit.
All those OS-level functions are open (e.g. there's already a camera viewfinder app for Pebble) and if need be Apple can make their own. Samsung offers their own SVoice and their payment system
huh? what android devices?
Apple dicks around their own iPhone users on new feature support all the time like no Siri on iPhone 4 and no in-app Apple Pay on iPhone 5s. They ignore all questions already on 'why doesn't x feature work with my phone?'. There are lots more hardware configurations for Windows and Apple manages to support iTunes on that. Ffs Pebble is a much smaller company than Apple and manages to support Android just fine. Stop with the excuses.
oh
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Thats a touchID thing though, right? Apple Pay isn't really possible without touchID. So it is actually a hardware thing. Sure, they could have let you use your iTunes password but that defeates the entire purpose of Apple Pay.milkman said:
iPhone 5s has touchID
I guess I read it backwards -- Android Wear works with iPhone, but Android Phones don't yet work with Apple Watch. Still though, what happens when someone with an Android Wear device paired with an iPhone wants to use Siri or ApplePay? Will Apple Maps on the watch work with GPS functions on the phone or do you have to install Google Maps?
Pebble, at the moment, is a device with a small techie following that will understand and accept interoperability problems because they knew what they were getting into in the first place. If Apple were to market the Apple Watch as interoperable with Android devices, they would be beholden to a much wider and much less savvy audience that expects the "It just works" Apple philosophy to apply.
jts
...hate me...
Or do what I did in the same situation and use a freight forwarding service paying some 20 euro more
Together with purchasing AppleCare+ it's as good as buying in your own country.
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Ha, I thought that was the plural of iPhone5.
Theres no in app Apple Pay? I swear I read/saw that explicitly.. and Apple watch is compatible with 5S and that supports Apple Pay.
Thats weird