Support NeoGAF

[Mango The Magician]

They are protesting the American apartheid. The flag is representing said country. It is a perfect symbol from them to use. You don't protest based on the hurt feelings of people towards inanimate objects.

I get that, and I agree. I'm not even saying that the girl was in the right or anything, I just don't like the tactics used is all.

The entire purpose of free speech is giving people the ability to "shock and offend" others because it brings a diversity of opinions on an issue that otherwise wouldn't be there.

That's fair, and I don't disagree, as I'm not saying they shouldn't use the flag or anything like that, just that in hindsight, a scenario like this is bound to happen when using a flag.

 

[Lazyslob]

she says in the video if the flag is torn or ripped it needs to be properly disposed of.. does that go for miniature american flags too?

 

[HiredN00bs]

No theres not.

No there's not what?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

 

[Red]

Oh not this argument.

It's not even an argument. Soldiers fight for their country, so therefore no citizen of that county should act in a way soldiers might not like?

If a soldier fights for freedom, that includes the freedoms they don't agree with.

 

[Frog-fu]

I do respect the 1st amendment. I also support someone stopping someone else from stepping on the flag. I can do both.

I completely disagree with this statement but I don't understand the confusion.

Just the way you can support someone's first amendment right to talk shit, you can support that someone getting hit - even if the former is a legal act and the latter is illegal.

That's what I got from it. A tad paradoxical, but perfectly understandable nonetheless.

 

[FO-totality]

No there's not what?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

That's a not a military code but a federal statue, and it's also not enforceable to the general public.

 

[Onyar]

I mean, the flag discussion is useless. The real discussion should be why some citizens do that to his own flag. There are some big unresolved problems in there for sure.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Good for the Air Force girl. I don't respect anyone that walks on the flag.

Nobody cares who you respect or not for whatever reasons. People with attitudes like yours are a big part of whats wrong with this country. People who care more about symbols than other actual people and their opinions.
If they had a legal right to walk on the flag as a form of protest than she should have kept her nose out of it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I understand that, but you can't support someone committing a crime attacking a freedom that you claim to support. You can't break the freedoms in the first amendment down into the ones that you like and the ones that you support unlawful acts against and still claim to like the first amendment.

Yes, you can. It makes you a hypocrite but I assure you it's entirely possible and millions of people live that way every single day.

There are many ways that a persons personal beliefs can end up conflicting with each other. When that happens, people choose which ones are most important to them and support that more. As a poster pointed out earlier, substitute this protest with a Westboro Baptist Church protest and switch the flag with a hateful sign and quite a few people would be perfectly fine with taking it even though they support the 1st Amendment.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm not arguing whether she was wrong or right with her actions, I'm just saying that she was upset because people were walking on the flag of the country she has sworn her life to protect. I can understand why she would be mad and want to stop them.

Perhaps she should be rethinking her stance.

 

[Coins]

No there's not what?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

The military follows their rules for flags they own. The vet should have stood by and made sure no one fucked with the protest,as it's their duty. Then when the protest was over the vet should have politely asked for the flag to be given to her so she could properly dispose of the flag in her posession. End of story.

 

[King Tubby]

I'm not sure an American flag and a God hates fags sign are equitable but...

not caring about a flag and caring about a big sign that says God hates fags are pretty different things hope this helps

My point is that both actions are protected by the First Amendment, and a lot of the people in this thread who are happy this woman was arrested for taking away the flag would be upset if the same occurred in the scenario provided. In the latter scenario, would we say that those people don't respect the First Amendment?

 

[Lazyslob]

The military follows their rules for flags they own. The vet should have stood by and made sure no one fucked with the protest,as it's their duty. Then when the protest was over the vet should have politely asked for the flag to be given to her so she could properly dispose of the flag in her posession. End of story.

she has no duty shes not in the military anymore. even if she was its not her business

 

[dork]

I watched something on history. Proper disposal of the flag is actually burning it. (Probably in a more respectful way than this but still)

 

[Van]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

I do respect the 1st amendment. I also support someone stopping someone else from stepping on the flag. I can do both.

You support stopping people from doing something they have a legal right to do simply because you dont like it ? Grow up.

 

[HiredN00bs]

The military follows their rules for flags they own. The vet should have stood by and made sure no one fucked with the protest,as it's their duty. Then when the protest was over the vet should have politely asked for the flag to be given to her so she could properly dispose of the flag in her posession. End of story.

Okay, but there's a clearly a legal code (by which the military abides) for treatment of the flag; I don't know why you would just post "no there is not" without a correction or clarification.

That's a not a military code but a federal statue, and it's also not enforceable to the general public.

I see. The only reason I even knew about it was from reading it in an encyclopedia when I was a kid, cut me some slack.

 

[reckless]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

Should be happy since you were "protecting our freedom" and thats one of the freedoms we have.

 

[Coins]

she has no duty shes not in the military anymore. even if she was its not her business

It's every military members duty (past or present) to try to stop people's rights from being trampled on.

 

[Sai-kun]

My point is that both actions are protected by the First Amendment, and a lot of the people in this thread who are happy this woman was arrested for taking away the flag would be upset if the same occurred in the scenario provided. In the latter scenario, would we say that those people don't respect the First Amendment?

That's a pretty strong assumption on your part.

I think people may be upset (because fuck the WBC), but I would argue most people in here would understand that yes, you can get arrested for infringing on someone's first amendment rights.

 

[slit]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

Little snobs? Why are they little snobs?

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I do respect the 1st amendment. I also support someone stopping someone else from stepping on the flag. I can do both.

Your rights stop where there's begin. This isn't illegal and you would be in the wrong.

 

[Apdiddy]

She also has a partially nude picture of herself behind an American flag. The hypocrisy with her is almost epic.

All my right wing friends love her but I think she's batshit crazy and should be regarded with skepticism.

The group that was stepping on the flag weren't any better (in fact they were worse), but she didn't help her cause any.

 

[injurai]

well yeah, it's not her flag so she shouldn't steal it

Yup.

David Mitchell on burning flags.

 

[esms]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

If I fought in the military, it wouldn't just be for the rights I agree with.

 

[RyanDG]

I am surprised you can be arrested for theft for taking something other people are treating as refuse.

 

[Coins]

If I fought in the military, it wouldn't just be for the rights I agree with.

Yep, this.

 

[Lazyslob]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

for all you know this lady just sat behind a desk in the air force.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

In this scenario, I wouldn't have bled for the flag, but for the country. In the end, the flag is just a piece of fabric, so I wouldn't give a shit.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

She clearly thinks she's entitlted because of her Air Force enrollment. It's not her role to intervene or stop a protest. The arrest was justified.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I am surprised you can be arrested for theft for taking something other people are treating as refuse.

It's clearly being used as part of a protest. Now if the protest was to put it on the street corner with the rest of their garbage you might have a case for being confused.

 

[Red]

Those defending the actions of the vet: do you realize you are advocating a military dictatorship?

 

[Erin S Kittens]

I know what I'm doing on Flag Day.

 

[pa22word]

Yes stealing the flag from them was a crime. I'll just say that I hope the judge goes light on her for it, because I think a case could made that someone in the armed forces seeing someone trample on the flag might be prone to have a lapse of judgement.

As for the first amendment bullshit, I'll side with Evelyn Beatrice Hall on this one, and leave it at that.

 

[King Tubby]

That's a pretty strong assumption on your part.

I think people may be upset (because fuck the WBC), but I would argue most people in here would understand that yes, you can get arrested for infringing on someone's first amendment rights.

Fair enough.

I am surprised you can be arrested for theft for taking something other people are treating as refuse.

It's not being treated as "refuse", it's being specifically used to make a statement. If it were garbage to them, they wouldn't care if it were taken.

 

[FyreWulff]

It was their flag, their speech, and the woman had no right to quash their speech by stealing their flag.

 

[hipbabboom]

I do respect the 1st amendment. I also support someone stopping someone else from stepping on the flag. I can do both.

Haha! This sounds so dumb! Reads like something I would post

 

[slit]

I am surprised you can be arrested for theft for taking something other people are treating as refuse.

They are not treating it like refuse. Refuse means they don't want it.

They want it, other people just don't like what they want it for.

 

[n0razi]

On one hand, there's no reason for the girl to try to stop them as it's a flag, on the other, it's a flag and is clearly something that would cause controversy, thus I can't really sympathize with the people who basically asked for others to get worked up. Basically, It goes without saying that the social issue is more important than the flag, however, the protest could have easily been done without a flag.

both sides are in the wrong here... the girl could have easily taken the higher road instead of stooping to their level

 

[Hazmat]

Yes, you can. It makes you a hypocrite but I assure you it's entirely possible and millions of people live that way every single day.

There are many ways that a persons personal beliefs can end up conflicting with each other. When that happens, people choose which ones are most important to them and support that more. As a poster pointed out earlier, substitute this protest with a Westboro Baptist Church protest and switch the flag with a hateful sign and quite a few people would be perfectly fine with taking it even though they support the 1st Amendment.

Being a hypocrite means you don't actually believe what you say or think you believe because your actions contradict what you claim to believe. You can say that you support the first amendment all you want, but if you support people acting against it or act against it yourself, then you don't really support it.

 

[Dude Abides]

Sarah Palin's pants need a hem.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

both sides are in the wrong here... the girl could have easily taken the higher road instead of stooping to their level

There's nothing wrong with desecrating a flag that represents all manner of oppression.

 

[Red]

There's nothing wrong with desecrating a flag that represents all manner of oppression.

I don't think that was the intent of this protest at all.

Think of it more as a representation of inequality stomping on the principles of America, not an act of violence against the flag itself.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

both sides are in the wrong here... the girl could have easily taken the higher road instead of stooping to their level

The protesters are well within their first amendment rights. They're only wrong because of your opinion, I assume.

 

[slit]

both sides are in the wrong here... the girl could have easily taken the higher road instead of stooping to their level

No, she's at a level all by herself.

 

[Erin S Kittens]

I don't think that was the intent of this protest at all.

Were they not protesting American apartheid?

 

[Beloved]

Sooo to the people saying the Air Force is a idiot, how would you feel if you served this country, gave blood and sweat to protect our freedoms, and then come home and see that some little snobs are stomping the flag?

guise pls

There are so many things wrong with this logic, it blows my fucking mind.

 

[pa22word]

both sides are in the wrong here... the girl could have easily taken the higher road instead of stooping to their level

It's low hanging fruit in america to do something nasty to the flag. You know it'll piss a shitload of people off, while at the same time doing something that will have pretty much no ramifications come down on you for it.

 

[HiredN00bs]

There's nothing wrong with desecrating a flag that represents all manner of oppression.

Not that it's relevant to the discussion, but I don't see how a thinking person can say that about the USA flag. It represents the 50 states of the union and the original thirteen colonies. If anything, this country was founded to fight oppression. Which is exactly the tradition these protesters are carrying on. American flag desecration is always ironic in that way.

 

[hipbabboom]

I loved the ending of that video. Recorder was a genius! She almost trapped that cop in his lies! That cop arrested her friend who wouldn't release the flag but didn't arrest the other women who did... what shitty double-standards!