AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls

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It's unlikely that they will be able to do anything about the AFC championship balls. The colts were also under the limit and we have no idea what the measurements were pre-game.

It's all on those text messages.
 
Duxxy3 said:
It's unlikely that they will be able to do anything about the AFC championship balls. The colts were also under the limit and we have no idea what the measurements were pre-game.

It's all on those text messages.
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What's interesting too is that those txts also imply that the refs had over inflated the balls by 2.5 psi on at least one occasion.
 
forgeforsaken said:
What's interesting too is that those txts also imply that the refs had over inflated the balls by 2.5 psi on at least one occasion.
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over inflated deflated this is all a bunch of crap. Aaron Rogers came out and said he likes his balls over inflated and tries to get it passed the refs as much as possible. People trying to use ball pressure as a ploy to attack the Pats for cheating seems pretty weak. The Colts had deflated balls in there posession as well but nobody is talking about that.
 
HocusPocus said:
If the texts are true, then he's essentially bribing them to get an edge. That's blatant.
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The texts are real, otherwise the people involved would've denied their existence. Jastremski and McNally only contest the interpretation of the texts by the investigators, however the investigators don't find the alternative interpretation given by them to be plausible.
 
EASTC0AST_GH05T said:
over inflated deflated this is all a bunch of crap. Aaron Rogers came out and said he likes his balls over inflated and tries to get it passed the refs as much as possible. Trying to use ball pressure as a ploy to attack the Pats for cheating seems pretty weak. The Colts had deflated balls in there posession as well but nobody is talking about that.
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For the deflated Colts balls, there is a scientific explanation why some of them clocked slightly below the 12.5 psi minimum. For the deflated Patriots balls that were up to 2 psi below the minimum, the report did not find a scientific explanation and thus concluded someone must've likely deliberately deflated the balls.
 
EASTC0AST_GH05T said:
over inflated deflated this is all a bunch of crap. Aaron Rogers came out and said he likes his balls over inflated and tries to get it passed the refs as much as possible. Trying to use ball pressure as a ploy to attack the Pats for cheating seems pretty weak. The Colts had deflated balls in there posession as well but nobody is talking about that.
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After the refs have checked the balls, do the Packers then inflate them some more?

If not, then get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
 
UnObtainium17 said:
wait.. 16 of what? that can't be psi? lol
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Yes it would seem so, which is sort of what I was getting at with my post a bit ago.

Jastremski:
I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs fucked us...a few of then were at almost 16
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The implication there is the refs had over inflated the balls by more than the Patriots had ever supposedly under inflated them. I wonder if the press will pick up on that.
 
EASTC0AST_GH05T said:
Rogers has said he tries to get it passed refs as much as possible so you get df out of here with that BS.
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He specifically said that he does it then sees if the refs remove air.

It's not admitting a rule violation, unlike what the pats are accused of.

Neither action is some huge deal IMO but Rogers comments were clearly about how the team inflates the balls BEFORE they are checked by the refs.
 
So some Colts balls were measured below the minimum PSI as well. So that shows you what I was saying all along, no one gave a shit about this rule and this rule is broken and has been broken all the time and it has only became a thing because one team tried to get dirt on another. The NFL admits they don't know what they are doing with this report and shows that this rule is broken all the time if the so called clean colts also had balls below the stated rule of 12.5.
 
Big-E said:
So some Colts balls were measured below the minimum PSI as well. So that shows you what I was saying all along, no one gave a shit about this rule and this rule is broken and has been broken all the time and it has only became a thing because one team tried to get dirt on another. The NFL admits they don't know what they are doing with this report and shows that this rule is broken all the time if the so called clean colts also had balls below the stated rule of 12.5.
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Among the issues discussed with our expert consultants was the magnitude of the reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs and the apparent greater drop in air pressure of the Patriots balls as compared to the Colts balls when tested at halftime. All of the game balls tested at halftime measured at lower pressure levels as compared to the pressure levels measured prior to the game. Our consultants confirmed that a reduction in air pressure is a natural result of footballs moving from a relatively warm environment such as a locker room to a colder environment such as a playing field. According to our scientific consultants, however, the reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various possible assumptions regarding the gauges used, and assuming an initial pressure of 12.5 psi for the Patriots balls and 13.0 psi for the Colts balls.
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.
 
riotous said:
He specifically said that he does it then sees if the refs remove air.

It's not admitting a rule violation, unlike what the pats are accused of.

Neither action is some huge deal IMO but Rogers comments were clearly about how the team inflates the balls BEFORE they are checked by the refs.
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How is inflating balls well above the legal limit NOT a rule violation? It's like saying "well, Rodgers totally cheated, but the refs didn't catch the fact that he cheated, so he's not actually cheating"???

chadskin said:
Among the issues discussed with our expert consultants was the magnitude of the reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs and the apparent greater drop in air pressure of the Patriots balls as compared to the Colts balls when tested at halftime. All of the game balls tested at halftime measured at lower pressure levels as compared to the pressure levels measured prior to the game. Our consultants confirmed that a reduction in air pressure is a natural result of footballs moving from a relatively warm environment such as a locker room to a colder environment such as a playing field. According to our scientific consultants, however, the reduction in pressure of the Patriots game balls cannot be explained completely by basic scientific principles, such as the Ideal Gas Law, based on the circumstances and conditions likely to have been present on the day of the AFC Championship Game. In addition, the average pressure drop of the Patriots game balls exceeded the average pressure drop of the Colts balls by 0.45 to 1.02 psi, depending on various possible assumptions regarding the gauges used, and assuming an initial pressure of 12.5 psi for the Patriots balls and 13.0 psi for the Colts balls.
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.
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And this is a faulty assumption to make, considering that 1) the pressure levels weren't documented at the start of the game, and 2) both the Pats AND Colts balls had significant differences from each other when measured at half time and so they could not have started from the exact same pressure level.
 
chadskin said:
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I read that and I understand that. I am simply going by the word of law which says 12.5. The NFL's Law is broken all the time in cold weather games if you take the law word for word. The issue here is that the Pats probably did something to cause more of a change. The NFL never truly cared about this rule for stuff like pressure changes would be taken into account in the rule book.
 
Goodell will do nothing. The Patriots took over as Murica's team years ago. This will make football look bad and it will be put under the rug like all the other shady things the Patriots do because Kraft is scum and a crook with a lot of money.
 
rjc571 said:
How is inflating balls well above the legal limit NOT a rule violation? It's like saying "well, Rodgers totally cheated, but the refs didn't catch the fact that he cheated, so he's not actually cheating"???.
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Because the refs are responsible for checking them and removing or adding air.

As Rogers also said they do in fact often remove air from the team balls; if it was against the rules they would be punished or at least warned.
 
rjc571 said:
And this is a faulty assumption to make, considering that 1) the pressure levels weren't documented at the start of the game, and 2) both the Pats AND Colts balls had significant differences from each other when measured at half time and so they could not have started from the exact same pressure level.
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At or around that time, McNally told the referee, Walt Anderson, that Tom Brady, the Patriots quarterback, wanted the game balls inflated at 12.5 psi.
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During the pre-game inspection, Anderson determined that all but two of the Patriots game balls delivered by McNally were properly inflated. Most of them measured 12.5 psi. Two tested below 12.5 psi and Anderson directed another game official to further inflate those two game balls, which Anderson then adjusted to 12.5 psi using a pressure gauge. Most of the Colts game balls tested by Anderson prior to the game measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi. Although one or two footballs may have registered 12.8 or 12.9 psi, it was evident to Anderson that the Colts‟ inflation target for the game balls was 13.0 psi. No air was added to or released from the Colts game balls pre-game because they were all within the permissible range.
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And then McNally took the Pats balls AND the Colts ball in two bags to a bathroom, locked the door, stayed there for 1 minute, 40 seconds and then went to the playing field. None of which was OK-ed by any NFL official, of course.
 
riotous said:
Because the refs are responsible for checking them and removing or adding air.
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The refs are also responsible for making sure receivers aren't using banned substances on their hands to aid in catching the ball, but just because they never caught Jerry Rice using them doesn't change the fact that he's an admitted cheater.

chadskin said:
During the pre-game inspection, Anderson determined that all but two of the Patriots game balls delivered by McNally were properly inflated. Most of them measured 12.5 psi. Two tested below 12.5 psi and Anderson directed another game official to further inflate those two game balls, which Anderson then adjusted to 12.5 psi using a pressure gauge. Most of the Colts game balls tested by Anderson prior to the game measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi. Although one or two footballs may have registered 12.8 or 12.9 psi, it was evident to Anderson that the Colts‟ inflation target for the game balls was 13.0 psi. No air was added to or released from the Colts game balls pre-game because they were all within the permissible range.
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So if we take Anderson's word as gospel, every Colts ball except one or two measured 13.0 or 13.1 at the start of the game, yet the four Colts balls they measured at halftime ranged anywhere from 12.15 to 12.95. How do you explain that one?
 
EASTC0AST_GH05T said:
If you can't have a debate with me on a respectable lvl don't qoute me at all please and thank you.
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How about you explain how overinflating a ball BEFORE the refs check it is the same thing as waiting until after the refs perform their check, then sneaking off to a room and releasing more air in secret?

We're waiting.

rjc571 said:
How is inflating balls well above the legal limit NOT a rule violation? It's like saying "well, Rodgers totally cheated, but the refs didn't catch the fact that he cheated, so he's not actually cheating"???
.
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Because it's the refs job to check the pressure. If they overinflate the balls and the refs don't catch it, then it means the refs are happy to let them play with those footballs. If the refs see the balls are overinflated then they deflate them to an acceptable level and the balls stay that way for the game without any additional tampering from the Packers.

It's not the same thing at all.
 
Cybit said:
Page 13 and 14. He absolutely wanted them at illegal levels. Why else would you "deflate" them?

Page 17 is the more damning of Brady part, though. The only reason they can't get texts from Tom is because he refused to provide his phone. No amount of rationalizing gets you around that.
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I mean that is one way to look at it for sure. He could have just wanted them deflated to 12.5 psi where he likes it though. It's obvious that there is some variance in the devices they check psi so it's possible they thought the footballs were still legal. Of course the Rodger's situation isn't a perfect example but him having his footballs at the upper limit could also be suspect.

On your other point I think Brady not handing over his phone records is smart if not a bit sketchy. I'm probably way too biased to have a real discussion with though because I don't think that is damning evidence while most others do. I'm a huge homer so take this with a grain of salt, but I can't help but feel that if this were any other team this wouldn't have been a huge deal ala the Falcon's noise pumping.
 
The Brady/Patriots apologists are hilarious in here. The team cheated, get over it. You look foolish trying to excuse any of this away.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
The Brady/Patriots apologists are hilarious in here. The team cheated, get over it. You look foolish trying to excuse any of this away.
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They need to feel those "big game" wins are always legit by their favorite team. Defending the Patriots helps these people sleep at night.
 
rjc571 said:
The refs are also responsible for making sure receivers aren't using banned substances on their hands to aid in catching the ball, but just because they never caught Jerry Rice using them doesn't change the fact that he's an admitted cheater.
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So where is the rule that says teams aren't allowed to hand the refs balls out of range before a game?

Like I said, I don't find either action all that big of a deal. But if you can't see the difference between handing the refs out of range balls and changing the pressure after the official measurements I don't know what to tell you.
 
rjc571 said:
So if we take Anderson's word as gospel, every Colts ball except one or two measured 13.0 or 13.1 at the start of the game, yet the four Colts balls they measured at halftime ranged anywhere from 12.15 to 12.95. How do you explain that one?
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Our consultants confirmed that a reduction in air pressure is a natural result of footballs moving from a relatively warm environment such as a locker room to a colder environment such as a playing field.
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.
 
Zvonimir Boban said:
Because it's the refs job to check the pressure. If they overinflate the balls and the refs don't catch it, then it means the refs are happy to let them play with those footballs. If the refs see the balls are overinflated then they deflate them to an acceptable level and the balls stay that way for the game without any additional tampering from the Packers.

It's not the same thing at all.
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That's really it though. I don't think this was a rule that was ever seriously enforced. If the ball felt good, they played with it. Since the ball would likely only be used by the team, rather than to screw with opposing players, i think the league just let people do whatever the hell they wanted.

I don't think the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls. I think they and likely the rest of the league just didn't care enough to check them beyond a "feel" check.
 
ironmang said:
Patriots could have switched to bowling balls second half and they still would have won. Colts were never in that game.
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It really isn't about that game or the Superbowl. It is about the fact the Patriots have now been implicated twice in severe cheating cases. I do firmly believe punishment is coming and it will be close but not as sever as the Saints in the Bounty Gate issue.
 
DrForester said:
I don't think the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls. I think they and likely the rest of the league just didn't care enough to check them beyond a "feel" check.
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I disagree:
It was the first time in Anderson‟s nineteen years as an NFL official that he could not locate the game balls at the start of a game. Unknown to Anderson, and without Anderson‟s permission or the permission of any other member of the officiating crew, McNally had taken the balls from the Officials Locker Room towards the playing field. According to Anderson and other members of the officiating crew for the AFC Championship Game, the removal of the game balls from the Officials Locker Room by McNally without the permission of the referee or another game official was a breach of standard operating pre-game procedure.
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Based on videotape evidence and witness interviews, it has been determined that McNally removed the game balls from the Officials Locker Room at approximately 6:30 p.m. After leaving the Officials Locker Room carrying two large bags of game balls (Patriots balls and Colts balls), McNally turned left and then turned left again to walk down a corridor referred to by Patriots personnel as the “center tunnel” heading to the playing field. At the end of the center tunnel on the left-hand side, approximately three feet from the doors that lead to the playing field, is a bathroom. McNally entered that bathroom with the game balls, locked the door, and remained in the bathroom with the game balls for approximately one minute and forty seconds. He then left the bathroom and took the bags of game balls to the field.
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chadskin said:
fer4768.jpg


For the deflated Colts balls, there is a scientific explanation why some of them clocked slightly below the 12.5 psi minimum. For the deflated Patriots balls that were up to 2 psi below the minimum, the report did not find a scientific explanation and thus concluded someone must've likely deliberately deflated the balls.
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It's pretty clear that the Patriots inflate their balls in an oven. The 300 degree swing would probably account for the 2 psi difference.
 
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