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[Durante]

True, everyone should buy TW3 on Ukrainian GOG and resell it for 15 bucks in US and other western markets.

And then we can be collectively sad about Cyberpunk being cancelled.

Or alternatively, CDP should sell TW3 for 54 bucks everywhere, ensuring that gamers in poor countries are shit out of luck (go pirates!)

It's funny because on principle I agree that one worldwide price is nice for the most part, but it's not exactly black and white.

Or CDPR could simply implement region locks like all other large publishers.

Their problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be that customer friendly company who is so different from the other publishers, and doesn't do any region locking or price fixing.

At the same time, they want to prop up their own online store by not supplying keys to GMG (who are known to reduce their own margin drastically) and want to have the same control over regional pricing that all publishers crave.

Either CDPR has to decide to maintain their customer friendly stance and eat the losses it incurs, or they have to admit to themselves that they aren't all that different from other corporations after all.

What they shouldn't do is pretend to be both.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Odd that CDPR/GoG is only seemingly throwing a fit now after GMG sale got some attention and when GMG started selling The Witcher 3 which was a while ago for a lower price than everywhere else.

 

[Zoned]

There absolutely nothing wrong with buying keys from another region. Those sites are banned here because there's a chance the keys they obtain are gotten through fraudulent means, such as using stolen credit cards.

Are you alao saying that it's okay to use VPN to buy game from another region and then activating?

Because in a way, you are doing just that. This of course, is against the Steam's TOS.

 

[boskee]

Breaking a contract is not the same as breaking the law though. CDPR still got the money for those copies sold.

I never said anything about the law. Keys could be revoked without them being illegal.

 

[dex3108]

True, everyone should buy TW3 on Ukrainian GOG and resell it for 15 bucks in US and other western markets.

And then we can be collectively sad about Cyberpunk being cancelled.

Or alternatively, CDP should sell TW3 for 54 bucks everywhere, ensuring that gamers in poor countries are shit out of luck (go pirates!)

It's funny because on principle I agree that one worldwide price is nice for the most part, but it's not exactly black and white.

My personal opinion and this doesn't have anything to do with W3 and CDPR. Customer always have right to seek best deal. If customer is ready and has knowledge to use different means to legally gets better deal they should do it. Why? Because if somebody is ready to do those things it is big chance that they only can afford game at that price and they want to support developer. Users who have enough money to afford full priced games they will buy it at full price in most cases.

 

[Durante]

Are you alao saying that it's okay to use VPN to buy game from another region and then activating?

I don't know if he is, but I'll say that yes, that is perfectly fine.

Companies lobbied for years to have a global market for goods and services with no restrictions, and they continue to do so (see also the detestable TTIP). Now that they have succeeded the very least we should expect as consumers is to benefit from that globalization as well, just like they do.

 

[Denton]

CDPR trying to increase their profits by not dealing with GMG is fine. (Though a bit funny for a company which likes to present itself as pro-consumer)
GMG reselling legitimately obtained keys in response is also perfectly fine.

What's wrong is CDPR then engaging in a smear campaign.

You forgot to mention GMG going against their stated policy of always being an authorized seller and obtaining keys directly. That's wrong too.

 

[HowZatOZ]

In the original article by Gamespot they quoted CDPR as saying that they were getting $0 from GMG sales. That's slander.

On CDPR's forums we have a moderator who's posted about how untrustworthy GMG is and how they've been caught selling stolen keys before. That's slander.

The follow up article had an apparent quote that they weren't receiving money but in the actual original article there was no quote whatsoever. Also the moderator was quickly corrected over confusion between GMG and G2A. So no, there has been no slander.

 

[wolfhowwl]

Are you alao saying that it's okay to use VPN to buy game from another region and then activating?

Because in a way, you are doing just that. This of course, is against the Steam's TOS.

Don't we have threads here openly about people doing that (Mexican Origin, Nuveem, etc.)?

 

[scitek]

Are you alao saying that it's okay to use VPN to buy game from another region and then activating?

Because in a way, you are doing just that. This of course, is against the Steam's TOS.

Just because it's against the TOS doesn't mean it's wrong. It means Valve doesn't want you doing it. If I have someone going to Russia pick me up a physical copy of the game while they're there and bring it back for me, how is that any different than VPNing a key? Is that wrong, too?

 

[Kiyo]

The follow up article had an apparent quote that they weren't receiving money but in the actual original article there was no quote whatsoever. Also the moderator was quickly corrected over confusion between GMG and G2A. So no, there has been no slander.

The moderator was corrected where? Because the thread was locked and his reply stood at the bottom until someone from CDPR bumped the thread with an official response drawing more attention to the post.

In fact the post is still there: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35436-Witcher-3-35-off/page4

Shouldn't the moderator have edited his post if he was corrected?

And yes, one of the articles had a statement from CDPR saying they were receiving no money. It doesn't matter which article it was. Gamespot hasn't posted a retraction on it yet. So how is that not slander?

 

[gai_shain]

In the original article by Gamespot they quoted CDPR as saying that they were getting $0 from GMG sales. That's slander.

On CDPR's forums we have a moderator who's posted about how untrustworthy GMG is and how they've been caught selling stolen keys before. That's slander.

the quotations on the gamespot article are really strange not sure what to think of that honsetly.

Moderators on their forums are not employees they are volunteers, so its not different than people here saying company x is doing shady stuff, that would also be slander I guess but from one person and not a company.

 

[Sijil]

I don't know if he is, but I'll say that yes, that is perfectly fine.

Companies lobbied for years to have a global market for goods and services with no restrictions, and they continue to do so (see also the detestable TTIP). Now that they have succeeded the very least we should expect as consumers is to benefit from that globalization as well, just like they do.

But realistically speaking, if cross region buying were to be legalized, the immediate immediate effect would be raising digital prices in countries where digital prices are marked much lower due to low income (i.e Russia, Ukraine, South Aisa, South America etc..etc..) to protect revenue.

Don't we have threads here openly about people doing that (Mexican Origin, Nuveem, etc.)?

Those store aren't selling region locked keys tho, Mexico Origin keys are global and so is Nuveem except in some cases. But it is still a hassle and not simple for your average consumer.

 

[OmegaDL50]

That is how retail works in general, digital or not.

Gamestop doesn't have to disclose how they do things either but everything they do is legal as hell, even if you disagree with it.

I'm not so sure about this.

There is no legal requirement for businesses to sell games at MSRP. A retailer can sell their items for whatever they want. Retailers also will not enter into price agreements with suppliers/distributors, since then they'd be accused of price fixing.

When Gamestop was removing the shrinkwrap of new copies of Xenoblade to sell them as pre-owned for $90 based on some perceived "market value", I'd say that was price fixing to profit beyond the MSRP.

The problem here is with what the general populace expects. Consumers know that new Wii games cost $50 at time. If GS had a bunch of new copies for $90, people are going to be quicker to ask why it's so much more than other new games and they'll likely be accused of price gouging. But if they sell used copies at $90, they can say it's based on supply and demand, which isn't entirely inaccurate since copies on eBay were selling for roughly the same amount.

This sort of situation is all kind of shady.

I hope that CDPR by selecting which retailers are allowed to sell The Witcher 3, and which are not isn't so they can price fix, Or slander GMG at least. I hope this was just a large dose of miscommunication.

 

[danm999]

And yes, one of the articles had a statement from CDPR saying they were receiving no money. It doesn't matter which article it was. Gamespot hasn't posted a retraction on it yet. So how is that not slander?

Because depending on how it's worded, it might be correct thus not slander. There's not enough context to the "zero" in the GameSpot article.

 

[HowZatOZ]

The moderator was corrected where? Because the thread was locked and his reply stood at the bottom until someone from CDPR bumped the thread with an official response drawing more attention to the post.

In fact the post is still there: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35436-Witcher-3-35-off/page4

Shouldn't the moderator have edited his post if he was corrected?

And yes, one of the articles had a statement from CDPR saying they were receiving no money. It doesn't matter which article it was. Gamespot hasn't posted a retraction on it yet. So how is that not slander?

My bad, I had thought it was corrected from previous posts on the subject earlier. It's clear that they got confused however as GMG has never sold illegitimate keys, everyone knows that.

It isn't slander on CDPR's part, which was your main argument. Gamespot quite clearly can't be bothered to get their sources right and rely on click bait articles, so it's entirely their fault. Hell the whole thing is really if you look at, considering they didn't even bother to clarify or update the original article and still poised their follow up as CDPR saying GMG keys are stolen or getting zero income without any actual source.

So far all we have officially heard is the two responses from CDPR and GMG. If you really want to read into something then look at GMG's CEO response and how he claims there are other reputable stores being denied keys yet it's only GMG. But that's stupid to do and the reason why everyone is currently so confused and misinformed, because people read into Ganespot's article which was incorrect.

 

[JoJo UK]

In the original article by Gamespot they quoted CDPR as saying that they were getting $0 from GMG sales. That's slander.

On CDPR's forums we have a moderator who's posted about how untrustworthy GMG is and how they've been caught selling stolen keys before. That's slander.

Spoiler

Sorry it was the first thing that came to mind

To play devils advocate is it not technically true that CDPR are not getting profit from GMGs sales as they are technically second had codes? Yes they got some sort of profit from the retailer selling to GMG but not from GMG selling the keys on to the public. That brings in the purchasing second hand games debate in, of course in saying that these keys have never been used to are the really second hand?

I imagine that the retailer who sold the keys onto GMG wont be happy getting named, might cause CDPR to cut ties with them?

It's all really up the in air until we know where these keys have come from I suppose. I personally don't believe GMG should state they are an authorized retailer if in fact they are not.

 

[Zoned]

Just because it's against the TOS doesn't mean it's wrong. It means Valve doesn't want you doing it. If I have someone going to Russia pick me up a physical copy of the game while they're there and bring it back for me, how is that any different than VPNing a key? Is that wrong, too?

Techically yes. Even if you went to another country and bought the game there, and come back and want to play the game, they have every right to revoke that key. It all depends on what the content creator wants. Region restrictions are usually imposed because of copyright owner which is again content creator.

 

[d9b]

Did you read the link you posted? It says that it's illegal in the US but that they look at it on a case by case basis in cases where it's deemed not anti competitive.



They are a competitor though, as they own a digital download service and are competing with other digital download services. Setting the pricing on competing services is price fixing.

If they are price fixing, then what they're doing is anti-competitive and most likely illegal.

In any case, price fixing is illegal in the EU and UK as well.

Edit: Here's a wiki link if you want to read about Minimum Retail Price:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resale_price_maintenance

Hint: It's illegal in the US and UK.

Not only anti-competitive but also anti-consumer. But y'know "good guy CDPR".
Like all the DLC will be free, and then "Oh shit, what do we do? Wait, we'll call it "expansion" and just charge for it. Also, throw couple cosmetic things in for free and call it DLC. Good guy CDPR redeemed! High 5 all around!"
In some people's eyes CDPR can do no wrong.

 

[Zoned]

Don't we have threads here openly about people doing that (Mexican Origin, Nuveem, etc.)?

Doesn't make it right, and it's a risk after all

 

[Dr Dogg]

On one hand you have CDPR looking out for their customers of their product saying that a certain retailer is selling keys not sourced by them so be wary as they can't verify if they're genuine or not and any responsibility rests with the customer if it turns out a bit iffy, nothing wrong with that. Except that GMG tried to do business with CDPR and they declined, their prerogative of course, but looking around at official resellers like GOG, Steam, Uplay, Origin, Gamesplant, Humble etc it seems like they want to control the retail price of their product but not accounting for the free market or someone like GMG take a massive hit on profit, if any at all, to be part of the party. Maybe CDPR took a gamble not doing direct business with GMG to keep retail prices stable but then this happens.

GMG not putting a disclaimer or such like on their product page stating they're not directly acquired keys might be a bad spot on them. Considering when places like G2A and Kinguin operate in the same sector with very chequered histories something like a notice on GMG's product page could go some way to distancing themselves from them. Then again who knows where they're getting their keys from but I doubt we'll find out explicitly.

 

[stan423321]

That is a stretch, and again the item is not a stolen good, the person you contracted to sell your item breached your contract, meaning you sue the seller not the person who bought it. Also I don't think you get your phone back, you just get paid the value of the phone, unless you can show me an example of your analogy.

Polish law is a clusterfuck, but Google confirms one thing. If you bought a phone that was stolen earlier and police learns about it, you lose it, and in some cases you can in fact get sued for not making sure it's not stolen.

 

[BLunted]

I fail to see why GMG are supposed to be the bad guys in this situation. They buy the keys from other sites, sell them at a lower price, and CDPR is still getting paid?

Their mission statement specifically says that they don't do that. It's not a matter of legality. It is a matter of ethics.

 

[LewieP]

What a mess.

 

[boskee]

Their mission statement specifically says that they don't do that. It's not a matter of legality. It is a matter of ethics.

Since they're a British company that could also be considered as false advertisement

 

[Revengineer]

I'm not sure what happens if a Polish company sold keys to a Japanese one for the Russian market, or whatever this happens to be. We could be dealing with reselling laws completely outside of the US/EU.

Nothing happens. This is called arbitrage at worst. At best, it's free market capitalism.

I am ashamed at GAF for jumping on the witch hunt against GMG. This is business. Neither CDPR nor GMG did anything wrong. Except for starting shit where there really isn't any.

EDIT: Damn - some people need to be exposed to the real world. How is what either CDPR or GMG doing "unethical?" It's perfectly ethical. GMG wants to sell a AAA release, and CDPR wants to promote their CDN. Both are using corporate maneuvering to attain their end, but nothing either are doing is illegal.

 

[Catatafish]

Done after this post, g'night...



It's more like:

A) Company 1 produces product at price needed to succeed in each market.

B) Company 2 wants to sell product.

C) Company 1 refuses Company 2's offer.

D) Company 2 goes to the market where product is cheapest, brings it back, and undercuts Company 1 in their own market.

E) Company 1 needs to sell X # of item at Y $ to survive.

F) Company 2's undercutting means that Company 1 isn't selling X#, meaning that Company 1 may not be able to make the budget of the product.

G) Company 1 gets screwed over massively, Company 2 profits.

It's unethical as all get out.

I see your point but should not a software be not restricted to a region, I.e all markets are part of a single digital market. Is it not segmenting the consumer based on geographical region is a form of region-lock. I thought that was anti-consumer.

Second, Let's assume that different regions have different price points for profit seeking purposes; moreover, I want to sell you oranges in Seattle. Then as long as I do not buy cheaper oranges from a walmar located, say at California and sell it to you in Seattle, I should be well within my legal rights.

 

[protomouse]

I have a hard time believing we can't take GMG's word for the legitimacy of these keys. Their whole business depends on their reputation, and they'd be idiots to piss that away. It was dumb enough of them to not be transparent about the fact that the keys weren't bought from CDPR, but a trusted third party source as CDPR didn't want to deal with them. Instead they were caught with their pants down.

If GMG does not want to disclose the source of their keys to CDPR, I can't fault CDPR for warning consumers about it - even if it undermines GMG's business.

CDPR's move to exclude GMG (presumably because they'd undercut CDPR's distribution partners) could be considered questionable for a company that seems to pride itself on being "consumer friendly". While I think this warrants criticism in and of itself, the enabler of this mess is GMG.

 

[FLAguy954]

Doesn't make it right, and it's a risk after all

I hope you are speaking for yourself because your morals don't apply to everyone.

Nothing happens. This is called arbitrage at worst. At best, it's free market capitalism.

I am ashamed at GAF for jumping on the witch hunt against GMG. This is business. Neither CDPR nor GMG did anything wrong. Except for starting shit where there really isn't any.

EDIT: Damn - some people need to be exposed to the real world. How is what either CDPR or GMG doing "unethical?" It's perfectly ethical. GMG wants to sell a AAA release, and CDPR wants to promote their CDN. Both are using corporate maneuvering to attain their end, but nothing either are doing is illegal.

All of this. I can believe the naivety of some here thinking that legal business tactics are bound by their brand of 'ethics.'

All I know is that GMG is making some legal (and understandable) business moves to counter a legal (understandable as well) business move CDPR made against them in a free market economy.

I also know that the consumer wins at the end with cheaper prices. Ones ethical take on the matter has no bearing on GMG's and CDPR's legal business tactics

 

[gai_shain]

Not only anti-competitive but also anti-consumer. But y'know "good guy CDPR".
Like all the DLC will be free, and then "Oh shit, what do we do? Wait, we'll call it "expansion" and just charge for it. Also, throw couple cosmetic things in for free and call it DLC. Good guy CDPR redeemed! High 5 all around!"
In some people's eyes CDPR can do no wrong.

Well yeah they did nothing wrong there, alot of people apparently werent able to read their statement properly were they said what they would charge for and what they wouldnt charge for

 

[Dunkley]

I'm gonna purchase my Witcher 3 key from GMG, mostly because I feel bad for them at this point.

Not gonna fault CDPR for freaking out over not knowing where GMG got their keys from tho.

 

[Docflem]

Polish law is a clusterfuck, but Google confirms one thing. If you bought a phone that was stolen earlier and police learns about it, you lose it, and in some cases you can in fact get sued for not making sure it's not stolen.

Again your analogies do not work with your argument, the "phone" in this case wasn't lost or stolen, in fact you contracted someone to sell it, and they did. The problem starts when you state that you wrote the contract in a particular way and it was sold in a way you are unhappy with. In this situation, you sue the seller because he violated the contract, but not because he sold stolen goods.

 

[ViciousDS]

Well yeah they did nothing wrong there, alot of people apparently werent able to read their statement properly were they said what they would charge for and what they wouldnt charge for

It's like people want the game to be delayed indefinitely and CDPR to go bankrupt until they put all the downloadable expansions and content in, that they are releasing after launch.

If every company launched a game with everything they wanted in a game..... we probably wouldn't have any games.... Because the companies would run dry before getting any profit lol

 

[d9b]

Well yeah they did nothing wrong there, alot of people apparently werent able to read their statement properly were they said what they would charge for and what they wouldnt charge for

What statement. This one from 2012?
"That’s why we offer expansions to our game for free. This is also a way of saying 'thank you' to the people who decided to buy our game instead of copying it from an unauthorized source."
But let's not get off topic here I shouldn't mentioned DLC in the first place, all I'm saying is: this "good guy CDPR" shtick is getting old.
Open campaign against GMG is bad for consumers and GMG itself. I would like to see someone get to the bottom of it. There is also a question of price-fixing with their direct competitors few people raised earlier...

 

[Cob32]

Will CDPR be able to tell where the keys come from once people start redeeming them?

 

[shink]

Don't have a problem with this if GMG are selling legally obtained keys. Just like I have no problems with people selling used games.

 

[FunkyDealer]

Did CDPR not contact GMG about this before hanging them out? Sounds like poor business-practice, potentially even very purposefully to harm GMG sales and bolster their own.

Will CDPR be able to tell where the keys come from once people start redeeming them?

Yes, but GMG codes should be identified as codes from other, approved third-party retailers.

 

[thebloo]

Done after this post, g'night...



It's more like:

A) Company 1 produces product at price needed to succeed in each market.

B) Company 2 wants to sell product.

C) Company 1 refuses Company 2's offer.

D) Company 2 goes to the market where product is cheapest, brings it back, and undercuts Company 1 in their own market.

E) Company 1 needs to sell X # of item at Y $ to survive.

F) Company 2's undercutting means that Company 1 isn't selling X#, meaning that Company 1 may not be able to make the budget of the product.

G) Company 1 gets screwed over massively, Company 2 profits.

It's unethical as all get out.



I don't mind hyperbole as a rhetorical device. Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way, though. Even though I'm vehemently disagreeing, last thing I want to do is be a dick to someone I normally enjoy engaging with.

The bolded is just an assumption.

 

[RulkezX]

Did CDPR not contact GMG about this before hanging them out? Sounds like poor business-practice, potentially even very purposefully to harm GMG sales and bolster their own.

And letting their community guys talk shit all over their forums.

 

[boskee]

And letting their community guys talk shit all over their forums.

Moderators are unaffiliated with CDPR. They're regular users with elevated permissions. They're not their community guys.

 

[liezryou]

So basically GMG is now a shady cd key reseller (No longer authorized). While i don't see anything wrong with that (I have used many in the past), those sites are banned on GAF. I don't see why an exception should be made for GMG.

 

[mrklaw]

I don't know if he is, but I'll say that yes, that is perfectly fine.

Companies lobbied for years to have a global market for goods and services with no restrictions, and they continue to do so (see also the detestable TTIP). Now that they have succeeded the very least we should expect as consumers is to benefit from that globalization as well, just like they do.

Companies do not lobby for an open global market. They lobby to have free access to other markets. They'll still want import protections in their own market, and the ability to divide up the world into regions so they can sub license product out for more money.

Basically they want two cakes and eat them too

 

[Sijil]

The bolded is just an assumption.

Some of it, they are undercutting the market, but whether or not they're getting the product cheaper from cross region remains to be seen.

 

[RipperGrim]

So nothing new has been learned yet? The source of the key are still suspect?

"good guy CDPR" shtick is getting old. .

Wow I really am disheartened that this is all it takes for people to toss CDPR under the bus, they are releasing a massive triple A game with absolutely no DRM what so ever and run a service that is probably the most consumer friendly in the business but when they advise customers to not buy from a source that they don't know how they got keys they are now shctick?

We know absolutely nothing about what's happened besides what has been said and all that's been happening is everyone's jumping to conclusions.

 

[MUnited83]

So nothing new has been learned yet? The source of the key are still suspect?



Wow I really am disheartened that this is all it takes for people to toss CDPR under the bus, they are releasing a massive triple A game with absolutely no DRM what so ever and run a service that is probably the most consumer friendly in the business but when they advise customers to not buy from a source that they don't know how they got keys they are now shctick?

We know absolutely nothing about what's happened besides what has been said and all that's been happening is everyone's jumping to conclusions.

CDPR has done lots of shit. This isn't the first time or the only reason people are throwing them under the bus.

 

[mrklaw]

So nothing new has been learned yet? The source of the key are still suspect?



Wow I really am disheartened that this is all it takes for people to toss CDPR under the bus, they are releasing a massive triple A game with absolutely no DRM what so ever and run a service that is probably the most consumer friendly in the business but when they advise customers to not buy from a source that they don't know how they got keys they are now shctick?

We know absolutely nothing about what's happened besides what has been said and all that's been happening is everyone's jumping to conclusions.

We seem to know that CDPR is restricting availability of the digital version of the game to steam and their own store. Doesn't sound very consumer friendly to me.

 

[boskee]

We seem to know that CDPR is restricting availability of the digital version of the game to steam and their own store. Doesn't sound very consumer friendly to me.

And Origin, and ubisoft's thingy and Humble Bundle, and Gamestop and plenty of other places.

 

[gai_shain]

What statement. This one from 2012?
"That’s why we offer expansions to our game for free. This is also a way of saying 'thank you' to the people who decided to buy our game instead of copying it from an unauthorized source."
But let's not get off topic here I shouldn't mentioned DLC in the first place, all I'm saying is: this "good guy CDPR" shtick is getting old.
Open campaign against GMG is bad for consumers and GMG itself. I would like to see someone get to the bottom of it. There is also a question of price-fixing with their direct competitors few people raised earlier...

Thats some nice cherry picking you did there with that quote, he also said

“We’ve always believed in free DLCs. The thing is that we consider DLCs as a normal post sale service, which shouldn’t be priced. Back when retail games were dominant, we had expansion packs. These were really large chunks of content, which were worth their price.”

“If today’s DLCs offered the same amount of content,” Tomaszkiewicz continued, “they would be worth paying for, but in most cases players think they are overcharged for what they receive. That’s why we offer expansions to our game for free. This is also a way of saying “thank you” to the people who decided to buy our game instead of copying it from an unauthorised source.”

so they cleary think if something offers enough content it is perfectly fine to charge for it

and we also have this here

I agree that companies shouldnt be seen as some kind of friend though

 

[d9b]

So nothing new has been learned yet? The source of the key are still suspect?



Wow I really am disheartened that this is all it takes for people to toss CDPR under the bus, they are releasing a massive triple A game with absolutely no DRM what so ever and run a service that is probably the most consumer friendly in the business but when they advise customers to not buy from a source that they don't know how they got keys they are now shctick?

We know absolutely nothing about what's happened besides what has been said and all that's been happening is everyone's jumping to conclusions.

This is a culmination of many "small" things in regard to CDPR.
Also, it's established that the keys GMG are selling are not illegal, so CDPR openly pulling their pitchforks is not cool.

 

[boskee]

This is a culmination of many "small" things in regard to CDPR.
Also, it's established that the keys GMG are selling are not illegal, so CDPR openly pulling their pitchforks is not cool.

No, it's established that GMG is selling keys from an unknown source so CDPR openly warning users is completely cool and what a responsible company should do. GMG being shady, breaking their mission statement and acting like any other key reseller is not cool.