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[SymbiantXenos]

I dont think Johnson wants it, does he? He has had ample opportunity to take it, and he just seems to have a good gig on the Daily Politics with Portillo, Neil and the dog.

In other news, here's the trader Vic's menu as promised:

Nice and cheap.

Bargain!

 

[JonathanEx]

If you need a dose of black humour, Dead Ringers were on with their election results special: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05sycdj

 

[Messofanego]

I kinda feel bad for Natalie Bennett's account to be following me. I didn't tweet that much about the Green Party! I'm sure they'd unfollow as soon as they see me tweeting about very violent videogames like Wolfenstein

 

[Gaffercake]

Unrelated, but I'm always hearing people say Ed Miliband 'stabbed his brother in the back' when, as I understand it, he was fairly elected as Labour's leader over David, so...where's the betrayal?

 

[JonathanEx]

Unrelated, but I'm always hearing people say Ed Miliband 'stabbed his brother in the back' when, as I understand it, he was fairly elected as Labour's leader over David, so...where's the betrayal?

Because they wanted David, so, it was his legally his, and no-one else was allowed to stand in the leadership contest.

 

[Beefy]

With all this talk about the Guardian being all evil, what is regarded as the best news source? Times, Telegraph? Daily Mail, Sun? Independent, FT?

All have agendas so I would say none.

 

[Salvadora]

Terribly afraid of the English voting to leave the EU.

Can Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales stay in?

 

[RedSparrows]

Unrelated, but I'm always hearing people say Ed Miliband 'stabbed his brother in the back' when, as I understand it, he was fairly elected as Labour's leader over David, so...where's the betrayal?

Because it makes him sound far worse than a fairly elected leader of a democratic party. See also 'in the pockets of the unions'. Good lord, surely not the unions?! It's almost as if they're a key reason Labour exists, or something.

 

[dalin80]

Sky just saying

if SNP pushed for another referendum and lost it then that would do huge damage to their mandate, and whilst they believe it would probably be a close 'yes' for independence it would be by no means guaranteed...

but he goes on to say he was told by the SNP, if they put independence on their manifesto for the Scottish elections and they win heavily, then that would signal a mandate for independence

The UK as a whole has got very little patience for a neverendium and a lot of damage was done by the last one that needs addressing first, all it did was successfully create more divide and hatred. Also it's a very poor time to try and argue for an independent scotland, especially after the very embarrassing maths error by the SNP where it overvalued the oil revenue that would fund independence by ten fold.

 

[Porcile]

Unrelated, but I'm always hearing people say Ed Miliband 'stabbed his brother in the back' when, as I understand it, he was fairly elected as Labour's leader over David, so...where's the betrayal?

He didn't stab anyone in the back. David was New Labour coming after Blair/Brown and Ed wasn't.

 

[Tak3n]

Unrelated, but I'm always hearing people say Ed Miliband 'stabbed his brother in the back' when, as I understand it, he was fairly elected as Labour's leader over David, so...where's the betrayal?

there wasn't it was tory spin, to make him out like if he would stab his brother in the back, what in earth would he do to the country...

Anyway, he stabbed him in the front

and David Miliband will come back the second there is a by election

 

[Tak3n]

Terribly afraid of the English voting to leave the EU.

Can Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales stay in?

No, one out, all out

 

[GoonerTRON]

Not suprised by the result at all. Looking at your papers every front page has been propaganda against the left the whole election. Rupurt Murdoch doing what he does best, getting poor people to vote for the rich.

 

[jamieson87]

"SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that she expects an "early" meeting with the prime minister. "

Yeah you ain't getting shit Nicola. If you though the tories shit on scotland before it's going to be a lot worse in the future.

Ignore the Scottish at your peril Mr Cameron, a poor start from the government will surely make indyref mk2 top of SNP's 2016 Holyrood Manifesto. It won't take much to turn the 45% yes into 51%.

A decent deal for Scotland quickly and from the outset will make the above less likely, and would surely be in the interest of the Westminster incumbent.

 

[Humidex]

I'm just glad George Galloway was booted out , actual Galloway quote:

"We have declared Bradford an Israel-free zone. We don't want any Israeli goods, we don't want any Israeli services, we don't want any Israeli academics coming to the university or the college, we don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford even if any of them had thought of doing so"

An absolute cretin

Based Bradford.

 

[GoonerTRON]

With all this talk about the Guardian being all evil, what is regarded as the best news source? Times, Telegraph? Daily Mail, Sun? Independent, FT?

What ever one is run by Rupert Murdoch

 

[Roland_Gunner]

analyst Philip Collins believes Alan Johnson will take the labour leadership until they can get David Miliband back in

I clearly don't know much about UK politics but why bring back someone who lost to Ed Miliband? There has to be someone more inspiring in Labour's ranks?

 

[pulsemyne]

there wasn't it was tory spin, to make him out like if he would stab his brother in the back, what in earth would he do to the country...

Anyway, he stabbed him in the front

and David Miliband will come back the second there is a by election

Apparently he could come back without a by-election. I will say though that I think labour should go for Dan Jarvis

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ster-labours-dan-jarvis-future-prime-minister

He comes across very well in this piece. The right wing papers also wouldn't be able to touch him. He's basically, to put it in Macolm Tucker terms, "Unfuckable".

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Terribly afraid of the English voting to leave the EU.

Can Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales stay in?

Pretty much my feeling. Britain leaving the EU would be disastrous for Wales.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Can someone explain to me why England hates being part of the EU so much? Do they just want to be Special Snowflakes or what?

 

[RedSparrows]

As for the reaction of the left, speaking as a lefty, some of us clearly have to get past the idea of false consciousness. It's patronising and absurd, even as what we see does seem bizarre and disheartening.

 

[pulsemyne]

I clearly don't know much about UK politics but why bring back someone who lost to Ed Miliband? There has to be someone more inspiring in Labour's ranks?

He is very popular with the public and is seen as one of the genuinely good people in politics.

 

[jamieson87]

With all this talk about the Guardian being all evil, what is regarded as the best news source? Times, Telegraph? Daily Mail, Sun? Independent, FT?

A good number of commentators and journalists on twitter seems to be the best bet. No news outlets are without their own bias, so it's all about taking a balanced view and making your own mind up with what is at hand.

 

[pulsemyne]

Ignore the Scottish at your peril Mr Cameron, a poor start from the government will surely make indyref mk2 top of SNP's 2016 Holyrood Manifesto. It won't take much to turn the 45% yes into 51%.

A decent deal for Scotland quickly and from the outset will make the above less likely, and would surely be in the interest of the Westminster incumbent.

He can afford to ignore them as much as he wants, Tories are in with a majority. They don't have to rely on scotland voting for them. They can just say "well you lost the last referendum so whats the point?". Scotland is, and is going to be, thoroughly shafted by the Tories.

 

[Tak3n]

Ignore the Scottish at your peril Mr Cameron, a poor start from the government will surely make indyref mk2 top of SNP's 2016 Holyrood Manifesto. It won't take much to turn the 45% yes into 51%.

A decent deal for Scotland quickly and from the outset will make the above less likely, and would surely be in the interest of the Westminster incumbent.

he will, he wants Scotland to take full devolution (make their own tax income) but SNP don't want this

 

[RedSparrows]

A good number of commentators and journalists on twitter seems to be the best bet. No news outlets are without their own bias, so it's all about taking a balanced view and making your own mind up with what is at hand.

This, really. I usually take the Guardian and the Times. Each paper is not monolithic, also - particularly the Guardian, with CIF.

 

[Tak3n]

I clearly don't know much about UK politics but why bring back someone who lost to Ed Miliband? There has to be someone more inspiring in Labour's ranks?

he won easily, but the unions sided with ED, as David is much more right wing... but basically he got all the votes except the union vote, and now the unions are fucked

 

[31GhostsIV]

What ever one is run by Rupert Murdoch

That would be The Sun, The Times and Sky News then.

I hate that shrivelled up old asshole. If a party offers a referendum on Rupert Murdoch and his businesses being allowed in the UK they would get my vote.

 

[jamieson87]

He can afford to ignore them as much as he wants, Tories are in with a majority. They don't have to rely on scotland voting for them. They can just say "well you lost the last referendum so whats the point?". Scotland is, and is going to be, thoroughly shafted by the Tories.

He can, but at what cost? He'd be a fool to think that he could do with Scotland as he pleases without consequence.

Another independence referendum, should it be on SNP Manifesto next year, is something out with Westminster control. It can hardly be ignored if SNP secure another sound majority in Holyrood next year.

I'm pro independence, but don't get me wrong, FFA and further devolution to Edinburgh in the next year or so could be a wise move. Give SNP the greater power the desire, if the fuck it up, the independence chat is killed dead for a generation.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Holy hell... I just got a chance to catch up after things were still uncertain some 18 hours or so ago... Conservatives got 331 seats? And people were skeptical of the BBC's 316 seat exit poll prediction.

 

[Dougald]

Can someone explain to me why England hates being part of the EU so much? Do they just want to be Special Snowflakes or what?

Part immigration from EU countries, part delusion that it's pre-ww2 and we are still a major force in the world (UKIP going on about trading with the commonwealth for one), and the rest is the tendency of the Daily Mail to extrapolate the most ridiculous possible outcome for any legislation passed by the EU parliament as a headline.

 

[dalin80]

Another independence referendum, should it be on SNP Manifesto next year, is something out with Westminster control.

.

Such a referendum would not be valid or binding and would essentially amount to nothing but a few more braveheart reruns on Scottish TV.

 

[kitch9]

Not suprised by the result at all. Looking at your papers every front page has been propaganda against the left the whole election. Rupurt Murdoch doing what he does best, getting poor people to vote for the rich.

Maybe "poor" people don't feel as bad as you think?

 

[Roland_Gunner]

he won easily, but the unions sided with ED, as David is much more right wing... but basically he got all the votes except the union vote, and now the unions are fucked

That sounds like something that would have happened with the Democrats in the 70's or 80's until the unions lost so much power they couldn't push through candidates.

 

[jamieson87]

Such a referendum would not be valid or binding and would essentially amount to nothing but a few more braveheart reruns on Scottish TV.

Please explain?

 

[kitch9]

Part immigration from EU countries, part delusion that it's pre-ww2 and we are still a major force in the world (UKIP going on about trading with the commonwealth for one), and the rest is the tendency of the Daily Mail to extrapolate the most ridiculous possible outcome for any legislation passed by the EU parliament as a headline.

We currently hold a large trade deficit with the EU. It'd be fine, they will still want our business.

Saying that I think we'd vote to stay in the end.

 

[Walshicus]

Such a referendum would not be valid or binding and would essentially amount to nothing but a few more braveheart reruns on Scottish TV.

Laws are what we make of them. Legitimacy comes from public perception first.

 

[Conan-san]

Please explain?

Not sure of the exact details but essentially London would have to OK any referendum.

 

[dalin80]

Please explain?

For a referendum and it's outcome to be legal and binding both Holyrood and Westminster have to agree to it, it took much wrangling last time just for both parties to agree on how the question would be worded.

The SNP launching a referendum on it's own would be the same as you or I declaring that we are now independent of the UK, it would have no legal power, of course Scotland could try and go for a forceful separation by closing the borders and severing all contact with the rest of the UK but that would be an almighty and economically suicidal clusterfuck.

 

[Dougald]

We currently hold a large trade deficit with the EU. It'd be fine, they will still want our business.

Saying that I think we'd vote to stay in the end.

I'm not disputing that (and its not like dropping out of the EU means no free trade either), just that this seems to be the attitude that a lot of the more vocal anti-EU types seem to have. Whenever I hear the commonwealth mentioned in any sort of serious context as a replacement, it just seems to conjour up the image of a bunch of old fogies romanticising about the days when most of our trade came from the Empire.

 

[jamieson87]

Not sure of the exact details but essentially London would have to OK any referendum.

Of course, but a strong SNP Holyrood vote would indicate strong public support. Which would be hard for London to ignore. Exactly the same situation with the previous Edinburgh agreement.

 

[Moze]

Then going by that Labour hate poor people too because it was Labour that introduced the bedroom tax for private rentings in the welfare reform act in 2007. All the Tories did was extend the bedroom tax to cover social housing too.

Now I am not defending the Tories here I think they are a bunch of self serving right wing cunts but using the bedroom tax as "proof" they hate the poor is moronic since it was a bloody Labour party that introduced the fucking policy which people seem to be forgetting.

Have you got a source for this?

 

[Uzzy]

Please explain?

Responsibility over constitutional matters, such as independence, is still in the hands of Westminster. Not Holyrood. That's why the Edinburgh Agreement was signed to allow for the holding of the referendum.

They could go for the unilateral route, but that'd be insanity.

 

[Walshicus]

For a referendum and it's outcome to be legal and binding both Holyrood and Westminster have to agree to it, it took much wrangling last time just for both parties to agree on how the question would be worded.

The SNP launching a referendum on it's own would be the same as you or I declaring that we are now independent of the UK, it would have no legal power, of course Scotland could try and go for a forceful separation by closing the borders and severing all contact with the rest of the UK but that would be an almighty and economically suicidal clusterfuck.

Doesn't have to be any force involved, just a completion of the decoupling of the Scottish polity from the English. Which has pretty much already happened. There is no scenario - not one - where force is used to prevent a Scottish separation with popular support.


The Scottish government should just start ignoring any Westminster laws and decisions that are counter to its interests; shape reality to fit their needs. They're the ones with the legitimacy.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Ive heard that the SNP have learned from the Quebec independence referendum where their quick second referendum sort of killed the whole movement.

 

[Uzzy]

Anyone watching Question Time? It's on BBC1 right now.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Have you got a source for this?

It was originally called the Local Housing Allowance

The amount of LHA awarded depends on:

the number of bedrooms deemed to be required by the claimant, and
the region in which they live (called the Broad Rental Market Area) which determines the market level of rents within this area.
the percentile chosen by LHA rules as applicable - currently this is set at the 30th percentile.[6] meaning the rate is set amongst the lower rental rates for a wide region that includes many towns. If the tenant lives in a town with a higher than average rent, the lower 30th percentile rent for the region as a whole is still applied.

Bedroom Requirement

Local Housing Allowance will be calculated on the number of rooms the claimant's household needs not the number of rooms in the property or the amount of rent charged.

The number of bedrooms needed is based on the number, age and sex of people who live in the claimant's household. The bedroom requirement is calculated as follows:

one bedroom for the claimant and partner (over 16 - including same sex couples)
one bedroom for other person aged 16 or over
one bedroom for any two children of the same sex aged under 16
one bedroom for any two children regardless of sex who are less than ten years old
one bedroom for any other child

If the claimant is single and aged under 35, the category of property considered appropriate is a bedroom in shared accommodation. This means a property in which the claimant has the exclusive use of one bedroom, but shares one or more of a kitchen, a bathroom, a toilet or a room suitable for living in.

The maximum LHA rate covers a four bedroom property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Housing_Allowance

This was introduced under Labour and it is exactly the same as the current bedroom tax. The only difference is that the LHA applied to private renting (which a lot of poor people were forced in too due to the collapse of any signficant social housing). All the Tories did was expand the LHA to cover people living in social housing too.

But yes the bedroom tax was a policy introduced by Labour. So if youi are going to go "the Tories hate the poor cos of the bedroom tax" then equally Labour hate the poor too.

 

[Par Score]

Can someone explain to me why England hates being part of the EU so much? Do they just want to be Special Snowflakes or what?

I would normally respond to this by pointing out that all recent opinion polling shows a large majority of the population wants to stay in the EU (the latest figures are 56% stay, 34% leave) but this election has just shown just how bollocks the polls can be.

So now I'm just a crumbled wreck believing only the worst can happen to our country, and that we'll be out of the EU in a couple of years, and with Scotland leaving not long after that.

 

[dalin80]

The Scottish government should just start ignoring any Westminster laws and decisions that are counter to its interests; shape reality to fit their needs. They're the ones with the legitimacy.

And as soon as the SNP are able to harvest and sell the salty salty tears of some of the posters from the independence thread that will be a viable option. Until then nope.

 

[kitch9]

I'm not disputing that (and its not like dropping out of the EU means no free trade either), just that this seems to be the attitude that a lot of the more vocal anti-EU types seem to have. Whenever I hear the commonwealth mentioned in any sort of serious context as a replacement, it just seems to conjour up the image of a bunch of old fogies romanticising about the days when most of our trade came from the Empire.

We are currently missing a lot of opportunities worldwide because of our ties with the EU it's difficult for anyone to argue that the EU is a perfect entity.

We are effectively running a closed door immigration policy to the rest of the world for instance. Insanity.