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[Bold One]

 

[Raynes]

Nice shit post, but FPTP is not democratic.

 

[Moral Panic]

Nice shit post, but FPTP is not democratic.

With PR Ukip would've been the 3rd biggest party and people would still be in this thread complaining.

 

[Conan-san]

Ive heard that the SNP have learned from the Quebec independence referendum where their quick second referendum sort of killed the whole movement.

Aye, Aye, it's the long game. Give London enough rope to hang themslves with (Say there's a hundred bucks going for anyone who does it) and if they do so then make that the platform of SE 2021.

Of course that's excluding anything majorly stupid like us being pulled out of the EU at which case pick up your broom, it's shenanigans!

 

[Bold One]

Nice shit post, but FPTP is not democratic.

nice shit post, but FPTP is what it is. Like it or lump it

 

[Tak3n]

thread slowing down

 

[Par Score]

With PR Ukip would've been the 3rd biggest party and people would still be in this thread complaining.

A change in the voting system would likely lead to a shift in voting patterns.

It's not as simple as applying last night's result to a PR system and saying that's what would have happened

 

[Moze]

It was originally called the Local Housing Allowance



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Housing_Allowance

This was introduced under Labour and it is exactly the same as the current bedroom tax. The only difference is that the LHA applied to private renting (which a lot of poor people were forced in too due to the collapse of any signficant social housing). All the Tories did was expand the LHA to cover people living in social housing too.

But yes the bedroom tax was a policy introduced by Labour. So if youi are going to go "the Tories hate the poor cos of the bedroom tax" then equally Labour hate the poor too.

This was a policy introduced for new claimants. That means people were well aware what was happening before they moved in. That is completely different from telling everybody on housing benefits to move out or deal with paying for it. The issue with bedroom tax is that people are being forced to move out. If it was only for new claimants then that problem did not exist.

Is it perfect? No, but i never said Labour was perfect. They are the ones that brought in Atos, so they are far from perfect.

 

[CyclopsRock]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/10-delusions-about-labour-defeat-watch-out

Watch out!

 

[Tak3n]

LMAO





Columnist, Independent on Sunday tweets


All Lib Dem MPs now fit in a tweet: Brake, Carmichael, Clegg, Farron, Lamb, Mulholland, Pugh, Williams.

 

[MrRoflWaffles]

My poor mum's terrified. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she's evicted in the next 5 years and it's all absolutely out of her control.

Lots of people in this thread have been going on about how salty the GAF Left has been.
While I agree that here has been some real frustration bubbling over on occasion (sorry. we're only human), you have to realise that for the most vulnerable (poorest of poor, disabled folks etc), this really is a terrible result.

You can disagree with everyone saying "Britain is screwed" all you like; that's obviously fine, opinions are opinions.. but I think that certainly for my family and I, we really are going to get fucked pretty hard over the coming years.

 

[Uzzy]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/10-delusions-about-labour-defeat-watch-out

Watch out!

1, 3, 5, 6 and 9 are all on display in Question Time. Good times.

 

[Moral Panic]

A change in the voting system would likely lead to a shift in voting patterns.

It's not as simple as applying last night's result to a PR system and saying that's what would have happened

People voted for Ukip even in places they knew they didn't have a chance of getting in, so under PR do you expect less to vote for them? The only reason people are crying about "democracy" is because their team lost.

 

[hepburn3d]

My brothers reasons for voting Tory:

For me it's simple. Do I want a labour party leading who are more than happy to bring us to the brink of bankruptcy (let's not forget during the heydays), be held to ransom by every Union & finally exclude from its manifesto key concerns from the British public....er....no....

I want to reply to him and help him realise how wrong he is, but I feel like he's too far gone. Murdoch really has a talent

 

[Walshicus]

People voted for Ukip even in places they knew they didn't have a chance of getting in, so under PR do you expect less to vote for them? The only reason people are crying about "democracy" is because their team lost.

I'd gladly accept more UKIP seats as the price for an electoral system that doesn't suck arse. Which ours does.

 

[Moral Panic]

I'd gladly accept more UKIP seats as the price for an electoral system that doesn't suck arse. Which ours does.

Fair enough.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

This was a policy introduced for new claimants. That means people were well aware what was happening before they moved in. That is completely different from telling everybody on housing benefits to move out or deal with paying for it. The issue with bedroom tax is that people are being forced to move out. If it was only for new claimants then that problem did not exist.

Is it perfect? No, but i never said Labour was perfect. They are the ones that brought in Atos, so they are far from perfect.

That was the introduction of the bedroom tax of course it only applied to New Claimants because at the time that is all they could do and again most poor people did NOT have a choice as to where they were housed. I had a good friend that was made ill by Labours bedroom tax because she had 3 bedrooms when she only needed 2. She had NO choice but to have a 3 bedroom private rental because there was zero social housing available and the only private rental properties available were 3 bedroom or more.

So yes the problem did exist and it was very real and it led to no end of poverty and deprivation to poor people that had sod all choice or anyway to mitigate it.

You said that the Tories hated the poor and you used the bedroom tax as proof they hate the poor. I merely pointed out that the bedroom tax was a Labour policy so going by your logic Labour hate the poor too. In reality I think it is more a case of "neither party gives a flying fuck about the poor and it seems most of the country doesn't either".

 

[Delusibeta]

I'd gladly accept more UKIP seats as the price for an electoral system that doesn't suck arse. Which ours does.

Would you accept a ConUKIP coalition (which would have been the result of this election under PR)?

 

[Wrestlemania]

I'd gladly accept more UKIP seats as the price for an electoral system that doesn't suck arse. Which ours does.

Yup, me too. And then I'd gladly see them make absolute arses of themselves as a collective of MPs and hopefully see a hug drop off the next time around.

 

[cyberheater]

My poor mum's terrified. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she's evicted in the next 5 years and it's all absolutely out of her control.

Lots of people in this thread have been going on about how salty the GAF Left has been.
While I agree that here has been some real frustration bubbling over on occasion (sorry. we're only human), you have to realise that for the most vulnerable (poorest of poor, disabled folks etc), this really is a terrible result.

You can disagree with everyone saying "Britain is screwed" all you like; that's obviously fine, opinions are opinions.. but I think that certainly for my family and I, we really are going to get fucked pretty hard over the coming years.

Yes it's going to get pretty bleak for the poor in the coming years.

 

[Humidex]

Anyone watching Question Time? It's on BBC1 right now.

I did. And my god did Paddy ramble on...

 

[Uzzy]

I did. And my god did Paddy ramble on...

Sure did. Don't think anyone had the heart to try and get him to stop though.

 

[Jezbollah]

Poor Paddy looks like he lost his soul.

 

[Wrestlemania]

My poor mum's terrified. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she's evicted in the next 5 years and it's all absolutely out of her control.

Lots of people in this thread have been going on about how salty the GAF Left has been.
While I agree that here has been some real frustration bubbling over on occasion (sorry. we're only human), you have to realise that for the most vulnerable (poorest of poor, disabled folks etc), this really is a terrible result.

You can disagree with everyone saying "Britain is screwed" all you like; that's obviously fine, opinions are opinions.. but I think that certainly for my family and I, we really are going to get fucked pretty hard over the coming years.

Actually you're wrong - it's all just a game like football, see? And someone being upset about the outcome is like an adult being upset about his team losing. Or, like, an adult being upset that his favourite man on the TV got fired and his car programme isn't going to be on any more.

 

[cyberheater]

Poor Paddy looks like he lost his soul.

Did he eat his hat?

 

[hohoXD123]

Actually you're wrong - it's all just a game like football, see? And someone being upset about the outcome is like an adult being upset about his team losing. Or, like, an adult being upset that his favourite man on the TV got fired and his car programme isn't going to be on any more.

In case this isn't sarcasm...

Neither Liverpool nor Jeremy Clarkson are going to be passing laws and having a significant impact on people's lives, giving a shit about the party who you think to be representing your interests losing isn't as pointless. The analogy completely falls flat.

 

[Moze]

That was the introduction of the bedroom tax of course it only applied to New Claimants because at the time that is all they could do and again most poor people did NOT have a choice as to where they were housed. I had a good friend that was made ill by Labours bedroom tax because she had 3 bedrooms when she only needed 2. She had NO choice but to have a 3 bedroom private rental because there was zero social housing available and the only private rental properties available were 3 bedroom or more.

So yes the problem did exist and it was very real and it led to no end of poverty and deprivation to poor people that had sod all choice or anyway to mitigate it.

You said that the Tories hated the poor and you used the bedroom tax as proof they hate the poor. I merely pointed out that the bedroom tax was a Labour policy so going by your logic Labour hate the poor too. In reality I think it is more a case of "neither party gives a flying fuck about the poor and it seems most of the country doesn't either".

I am sure some people were affected by it, but there was still a choice for a lot of people. It would have been worse for certain people in certain parts of the country. Is it perfect? No, but to compare it to the bedroom tax is insane. The bedroom tax literally affects every single person under 60 on housing benefit.

I used bedroom tax as just one example of many i could have used. I used it because the bedroom tax is one policy that Labour were going to get rid of on day 1. That policy alone would have helped many poor people, something that the Tories are not going to do. The Tories are actually going to raise the bedroom tax.

You could argue Labour do not really care about the poor that much. I wouldn't disagree too much, but it is still no where near the 0 fucks the Tories give. The fact we are making Labour out to be some amazing party for everybody just shows how much shittier a Tory government is.

 

[Wrestlemania]

In case this isn't sarcasm...

Neither Liverpool nor Jeremy Clarkson are going to be passing laws and having a significant impact on people's lives, giving a shit about the party who you think to be representing your interests losing isn't as pointless. The analogy completely falls flat.

Of course it was sarcasm! It's genuinely how some people seem to view it though - god forbid some people might actually fucking care about this stuff and have concerns about how this result is going to affect people.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Did he eat his hat?

A Lib Dem keep a promise he made during an election? What do you think?

 

[TM94]

My poor mum's terrified. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she's evicted in the next 5 years and it's all absolutely out of her control.

Lots of people in this thread have been going on about how salty the GAF Left has been.
While I agree that here has been some real frustration bubbling over on occasion (sorry. we're only human), you have to realise that for the most vulnerable (poorest of poor, disabled folks etc), this really is a terrible result.

You can disagree with everyone saying "Britain is screwed" all you like; that's obviously fine, opinions are opinions.. but I think that certainly for my family and I, we really are going to get fucked pretty hard over the coming years.

Here here, great post.

A lot of people live in their own world if you will.

If their family and friends are okay, they think most others are in the same boat.

The result proved to me that people are just looking out for themselves now, you can argue with me on that but that's genuinely how I feel.

 

[Raynes]

With PR Ukip would've been the 3rd biggest party and people would still be in this thread complaining.

Why don't we just ban certain parties from representing while we're at it? If you're going to prevent a a decent democratic voting system, you're no *better than UKIP.

 

[kitch9]

My brothers reasons for voting Tory:



I want to reply to him and help him realise how wrong he is, but I feel like he's too far gone. Murdoch really has a talent

He's no more wrong than you are right.

Politics

 

[cyberheater]

A Lib Dem keep a promise he made during an election? What do you think?

A big fat nope then.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Quick update: we're onto the 5th cocktail, a 6 person cocktail between three of us in a small barrel. So good. So poor. The Columbian band is playing a Hawaiian version of Kingston Town.

 

[JonathanEx]

 

[jonno394]

My poor mum's terrified. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she's evicted in the next 5 years and it's all absolutely out of her control.

Lots of people in this thread have been going on about how salty the GAF Left has been.
While I agree that here has been some real frustration bubbling over on occasion (sorry. we're only human), you have to realise that for the most vulnerable (poorest of poor, disabled folks etc), this really is a terrible result.

You can disagree with everyone saying "Britain is screwed" all you like; that's obviously fine, opinions are opinions.. but I think that certainly for my family and I, we really are going to get fucked pretty hard over the coming years.

Wait, why will your mother be evicted exactly?

 

[BibiMaghoo]

It was originally called the Local Housing Allowance



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Housing_Allowance

This was introduced under Labour and it is exactly the same as the current bedroom tax. The only difference is that the LHA applied to private renting (which a lot of poor people were forced in too due to the collapse of any signficant social housing). All the Tories did was expand the LHA to cover people living in social housing too.

But yes the bedroom tax was a policy introduced by Labour. So if youi are going to go "the Tories hate the poor cos of the bedroom tax" then equally Labour hate the poor too.

This is incredibly incorrect. The LHA is a means of assessing how much rent to pay for a person on benefits, not a tax against empty rooms. I have lived through and been effected by both, so here is the difference.

LHA means that when I was on jobseekers, they would only pay up to a certain amount for my rent, this varies depending on your age and other things, but it was about £75 last I was on it which was a while ago.

Bedroom tax which I later received is on top of this process. So my rent was £75 a week, which I was entitled to have under LHA, suddenly I have two empty bedrooms, and so 25% is deducted from the amount due to me.

There is a world of difference between the two things. One is to curb people on benefits living in £300 a week studio apartments. The other is to tax people for an empty room or two, regardless of the circumstances of it. If a person could previously get a three bedroom house with what they were eligible for, now they have an amount deducted for each empty room. On a personal note, I had to pay bedroom tax for an empty room because the person that lived in it died. From the very next day.

 

[RedShift]

Wait, why will your mother be evicted exactly?

I'm guessing bedroom tax?

 

[MrRoflWaffles]

Wait, why will your mother be evicted exactly?

I'd rather not explain much further than what I already said because it's rather personal stuff.
Hope you understand.

Spoiler

If that makes you feel inclined to disregard what I said then so be it, but I'm not really comfortable going any further, sorry.

 

[jonno394]

I'm guessing bedroom tax?

The council won't evict someone Because of that. my mom was in a three bedroom house on her own for a year (after my sister and i left) and they gave her a one bedroom bungalow and £2000 to move! Ridiculous sum of money and turn of events imo.

 

[MrS]

My brothers reasons for voting Tory:



I want to reply to him and help him realise how wrong he is, but I feel like he's too far gone. Murdoch really has a talent

His opinion is just as valid as yours and his vote was worth the same as yours. Perhaps you just need to be more tolerant of other peoples views?

 

[The Henery]

We've just handed the Tories our basic human rights (including privacy) on a platter and I would bet the house most Tory voters had no idea it was even on the cards. I've spoken to a fair few people today that voted Tory despite 'not really being into politics'. It's depressing as hell. If you have no interest or basic understanding of politics, then either educate yourself or don't bother voting.

One of my best friends lives in a Lib Dem/Con marginal (as do I). He generally has no interest in politics and consequently has no knowledge of it either. He half watched the first leaders debate on his iPad whilst playing video games on his Xbox. He declared afterwards that he would vote for the SNP. I chuckled and thought nothing of it. A week later he still claimed he was voting SNP. I asked if he was trolling and he retorted "why"? I told him that as we lived in The south of England no Scottish National Party members would be standing. Fast forward a few weeks and he declared he voted Conservative. By which logic, I really don't know. He's 30 years old and gets knocked from pillar to post working awful agency jobs with no security and has a young son in the state school system.

I honestly think a lot of people vote solely on which leader 'looks' more competent. Policies are too much work.

 

[The Cowboy]

Wait, why will your mother be evicted exactly?

If its bedroom tax related, if you can't afford to pay it, need the room despite what you are told or there is no smaller properties available (which is very common) your arrears just keep going up and you can't do anything about it - so no place to move to + can't afford to pay = eventually evicted.

The council won't evict someone Because of that. my mom was in a three bedroom house on her own for a year (after my sister and i left) and they gave her a one bedroom bungalow and £2000 to move! Ridiculous sum of money and turn of events imo.

Yes they will, and lots already have (a simple google search shows this is the case.) - not everywhere/everyone has smaller places to move to.

 

[PJV3]

His opinion is just as valid as yours and his vote was worth the same as yours. Perhaps you just need to be more tolerant of other peoples views?

That's a bit dull isn't it.

He should go for it, his brother can tell him to piss off.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Won't someone let the cat into number 10?

 

[Slowdive]

Hahaha.

 

[RedSparrows]

His opinion is just as valid as yours and his vote was worth the same as yours. Perhaps you just need to be more tolerant of other peoples views?

That misses the point he was making. Everyone's opinion is valid in the sense of being an ontological fact. It's the content of said opinion. Political debate would be incredibly arid if we accepted the idea that opinions are substantively valid simply by virtue of existing.

 

[kitch9]

One of my best friends lives in a Lib Dem/Con marginal (as do I). He generally has no interest in politics and consequently has no knowledge of it either. He half watched the first leaders debate on his iPad whilst playing video games on his Xbox. He declared afterwards that he would vote for the SNP. I chuckled and thought nothing of it. A week later he still claimed he was voting SNP. I asked if he was trolling and he retorted "why"? I told him that as we lived in The south of England no Scottish National Party members would be standing. Fast forward a few weeks and he declared he voted Conservative. By which logic, I really don't know. He's 30 years old and gets knocked from pillar to post working awful agency jobs with no security and has a young son in the state school system.

I honestly think a lot of people vote solely on which leader 'looks' more competent. Policies are too much work.

If that guy exists why do you think he has a difficult employment history?

 

[Tak3n]

He has left text messages on view there

 

[Biggzy]

One of my best friends lives in a Lib Dem/Con marginal (as do I). He generally has no interest in politics and consequently has no knowledge of it either. He half watched the first leaders debate on his iPad whilst playing video games on his Xbox. He declared afterwards that he would vote for the SNP. I chuckled and thought nothing of it. A week later he still claimed he was voting SNP. I asked if he was trolling and he retorted "why"? I told him that as we lived in The south of England no Scottish National Party members would be standing. Fast forward a few weeks and he declared he voted Conservative. By which logic, I really don't know. He's 30 years old and gets knocked from pillar to post working awful agency jobs with no security and has a young son in the state school system.

I honestly think a lot of people vote solely on which leader 'looks' more competent. Policies are too much work.

This is pretty much it. People are too lazy to 'educate' themselves on the wider policies of the party and just go along with what they see on the telly or in the newspapers.