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[Jackpot]

I hate these kind of posts, as if they knew they should of done something about it

"Labour MPs knew earlier this year that the kind of defeat that has now transpired was heading our way"

No you didn't, everyone thought it'd be a dead heat resulting in precarious coalitions. The last day or two of polls showed a swing towards Labour even.

 

[Hasney]

Good point - it is totally possible. But it would cost even more to get third party auditors in. The sustainability is key, I guess - interesting GDS link

Yeah, it's if that one off cost would offset the saving, which probably has to be measured over 5 years in case someone else came into power. With the GDS example, I totally believe it was setup with the right intentions, but the people that got the mandate were too close with the ones that were given it.

nhs.uk is another interesting one. It was privatised until a couple of years ago when it was supposed to go back out to tender and the people running it did complain to the point where a lord said it should stay private, but it got brought into one of those arms length departments in the HSCIC. If that's a good or bad thing is up for debate, but as the government has held GDS to a gold standard, it's likely they'll have to follow suit.

 

[Renegade Yeti]

I'm just glad George Galloway was booted out , actual Galloway quote:

"We have declared Bradford an Israel-free zone. We don't want any Israeli goods, we don't want any Israeli services, we don't want any Israeli academics coming to the university or the college, we don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford even if any of them had thought of doing so"

An absolute cretin

 

[FlammableD]

To the left of the Democrats probably.

Nope

 

[Hasney]

I'm just glad George Galloway was booted out , actual Galloway quote:

"We have declared Bradford an Israel-free zone. We don't want any Israeli goods, we don't want any Israeli services, we don't want any Israeli academics coming to the university or the college, we don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford even if any of them had thought of doing so"

An absolute cretin

Even as a Leeds resident, this is the most I've ever like Bradford. Feel like I should give my one Bradford friend a hug.

Spoiler

I used to have more Bradford friends, but Rio's got shut down so no metal night out

Nope

I think it's up for argument and one that won't be answered until the end of this term. The last 5 years they probably were, but the next 5 years will shake out how much of that was a coalition influence.

 

[MrRoflWaffles]

After signing off at about 7:30am, I wake up to a Tory majority, Clegg gone, Miliband gone, Farage gone.

sigh

This is not the result I was hoping for whatsoever.

 

[Faddy]

Did the Guardian update their fatUK map?



But don't the current boundaries already unfairly favour Labour?

Do they? The conservatives were 6% ahead of Labour in Popular Vote and got 50% more seats.

 

[Biggzy]

Even as a Leeds resident, this is the most I've ever like Bradford. Feel like I should give my one Bradford friend a hug.

Spoiler

I used to have more Bradford friends, but Rio's got shut down so no metal night out

I think it's up for argument and one that won't be answered until the end of this term. The last 5 years they probably were, but the next 5 years will shake out how much of that was a coalition influence.

I think we will find that the Lib Dems had quite a big impact in keeping the Conservative's more extreme right mostly in check. Now with them gone, and the fact Cameron has a slim majority, the Conservative's will shift more to the right.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

So how conservative is this conservative party vs the one in the US?

Economically very similar. Morally? It's hard to tell because the liberal democrats kept some of the more insane parts of the tory party in check, so it's anyones guess what kind if idiotic statements are going to come from an enthused backbench.

 

[kitch9]

Nope

Yup.

Probably I said as there will be a few finer points up for debate.

 

[Maledict]

Economically very similar. Morally? It's hard to tell because the liberal democrats kept some of the more insane parts of the tory party in check, so it's anyones guess what kind if idiotic statements are going to come from an enthused backbench.

Nah, even economically they aren't as bad. Morally its the conservative leader who pushed through gay marriage so there's no real comparison in terms of social issues.

 

[kitch9]

Economically very similar. Morally? It's hard to tell because the liberal democrats kept some of the more insane parts of the tory party in check, so it's anyones guess what kind if idiotic statements are going to come from an enthused backbench.

Economically they are nothing like the republicans. Socially they aren't either.

 

[uncleniccius]

To the left of the Democrats probably.

This is key for US folks. Your Democrats are right of the Tories by quite a way.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Nah, even economically they aren't as bad. Morally its the conservative leader who pushed through gay marriage so there's no real comparison in terms of social issues.

I don't know. The distinguishing leader of the modern day tory movement is still Thatcher, who is as close a comparison to the reverence Republicans heap on Reagan as you're going to get.

as for gay marriage going through, again, the reason why I say it's hard to jude the conservatives morally is because they haven't been judged on their own yet, so it's not exactly clear how much help Cameron -who is admittedly a moderate- had from the liberal democrats in curtailing his OWN backbenchers.

Edit: And I'm sorry, I simply do not agree they are nothing like the republicans. Their proposed denationalization of government, their welfare policies and their distate for unions is straight up republican... By the way I'm not saying New Labour haven't done these things either, but come on.

 

[kitch9]

But it's speeding up.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/25/far-more-nhs-contracts-going-to-private-firms-than-ministers-admit-privatisation

The Guardian.

Must be true.

 

[Hasney]

I think we will find that the Lib Dems had quite a big impact in keeping the Conservative's more extreme right mostly in check. Now with them gone, and the fact Cameron has a slim majority, the Conservative's will shift more to the right.

I totally agree and I said this morning that the backlash against the Lib Dems was shortsighted. People can argue against the coalition, but I think it was the best solution for the country at that time and offset a lot of the Tory policies that may have a lot of the disadvantaged issues. The junior partner in a right/left alliance will always come off horribly, but I honestly believe that Clegg backing down on Uni fees helped some other issues. We'll never know how that coalition government shook down for years though.

It's a shame that the coalition never happened under Charles Kennedy. I think he was the most charismatic leader this century along with Blair and he'd have at least properly said what they'd done in power in a way where the electorate would listen. Losses would still be major, but not as bad since whoever thought a fucking infographic would get the job done is a fool.

My opinion is that the Lib Dems did a lot of good for this country and this is coming from someone who has never voted for them. They just won't fully see this until the next election.

 

[kitch9]

I don't know. The distinguishing leader of the modern day tory movement is still Thatcher, who is as close a comparison to the reverence Republicans heap on Reagan as you're going to get.

as for gay marriage going through, again, the reason why I say it's hard to jude the conservatives morally is because they haven't been judged on their own yet, so it's not exactly clear how much help Cameron -who is admittedly a moderate- had from the liberal democrats in curtailing his OWN backbenchers.

Uhm, Thatchers dead...

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Uhm, Thatchers dead...

So is Reagan? Her policies still live on without her.

 

[kitch9]

So is Reagan? That doesn't mean her policies don't live on in the party?

Yes mate, I spotted a "What would Thatcher do?" book in the cabinet office.

I'm going to assume that you weren't alive
in the 80s because the political and social landscape is nothing like then.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Yes mate, I spotted a "What would Thatcher do?" book in the cabinet office

You mean like extending right to buy and the swave of anti-EU rhetoric have nothing to do with Thatcher?

Because one of them is straight from the book of Thatcher and one of them certainly lined up with her views.

 

[Tak3n]

uhh hate to break it to you Nicola, with this result it is exactly business as usual, your party can now be largely ignored, in fact if you believe some of the experts they feel this was one of the reason for the tories majority, the British people will not be told what to do by Scotland

so do one love, in a nice way


PM and Sturgeon phone call






Tim Reid

Political correspondent, BBC News

Posted at 18:52


SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that she expects an "early" meeting with the prime minister.

She had a telephone call with David Cameron today, but says the discussion was brief. She congratulated him and he congratulated her. She says she "made it clear that it could not be business as usual" regarding Scotland. She said she expected to meet "in early course."

 

[kitch9]

You mean like extending right to buy and the swave of anti-EU rhetoric have nothing to do with Thatcher?

No you've lost me, when did the Republicans start flogging council houses? Also the vast majority of the Conservatives are pro EU.

Is selling a house right wing now or something?

 

[PJV3]

The Guardian.

Must be true.

Come on dude.

Look, at least own what you vote for.

They are figures from the health department.


I didn't claim the nhs is now a private company, just that the rate of private contracts has increased. The figures will be skewed because the reforms didn't get passed until 2012/13.

 

[hohoXD123]

The Guardian.

Must be true.

No argument/source to counter article.

Must be false.

 

[Tak3n]

No you've lost me, when did the Republicans start flogging council houses? Also the vast majority of the Conservatives are pro EU.

Is selling a house right wing now or something?

not all of them, 60 are official, lets round that up to 100, that is still 200+ who want out


Mr Green said there was 60 MPs in the European Mainstream Group but declined to release a list of the members. Chaired by Mr Green, the group is being relaunched to act as a “rebuttal mechanism” to colleagues such as Owen Paterson. The former environment secretary this week told a business audience the prime minister should begin the process of leaving the EU.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

No you've lost me, when did the Republicans start flogging council houses? Also the vast majority of the Conservatives are pro EU.

Is selling a house right wing now or something?

The issue of the EU has always been a contentious subject within the conservatine party, and always will be. My point is that there is STILL a division in the conservative party that has yet to been rectified and it's uncertainty like that that worries me.

As for the right to buy... it is, on its own, not a right wing policy, but the implications it has on the poor certainly is. Aspirational politics isn't a bad thing, but it is an undeniable fact that the free-market has run wild on house and rental prices, so if anything we need more state housing, not less. So, yeah, in my eyes, it is a right wing policy if they keep selling off state housing and refuse to build new ones.

 

[Maledict]

Yeah, there is absolutely no way the majority of the parliamentary conservative party is pro-EU. It was always one of the more telling things about 2010 - their new intake was *significantly* more anti-EU than previous parties.

Cameron had to remove the last pro-EU person from cabinet in the coalition, and he promoted "leave the EU" people instead. He is really beholden to that wing of the party as it is significantly larger than the pro-EU.

I do think the cabinet will mostly end up campaigning to stay in the EU, but the majority of the party will not.

 

[kitch9]

Come on dude.

Look, at least own what you vote for.

They are figures from the health department.

And? Do you have details of the contracts performance?

Some of the best performing parts of the NHS are provided by private services.

Fertility for instance would be nothing but a few blood tests and dietary advice if it wasn't for the private sector.

Some cancer clinics are providing state of the art cancer treatments that would take years to get through NHS red tape.

The list is endless.

 

[Tak3n]

analyst Philip Collins believes Alan Johnson will take the labour leadership until they can get David Miliband back in

 

[D4Danger]

analyst Philip Collins believes Alan Johnson will take the labour leadership until they can get David Miliband back in

let it go. next they'll be begging Blair to come back.

 

[kitch9]

The issue of the EU has always been a contentious subject within the conservatine party, and always will be. My point is that there is STILL a division in the conservative party that has yet to been rectified and it's uncertainty like that that worries me.

As for the right to buy... it is, on its own, not a right wing policy, but the implications it has on the poor certainly is. Aspirational politics isn't a bad thing, but it is an undeniable fact that the free-market has run wild on house and rental prices, so if anything we need more state housing, not less. So, yeah, in my eyes, it is a right wing policy if they keep selling off state housing and refuse to build new ones.

Again, that has got nothing to do with how the Conservatives compare with the Republicans

 

[pulsemyne]

"SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that she expects an "early" meeting with the prime minister. "

Yeah you ain't getting shit Nicola. If you though the tories shit on scotland before it's going to be a lot worse in the future.

 

[31GhostsIV]

The Guardian.

Must be true.

Oh, ok. Maybe one of the Murdoch/Barclay Bros papers that take up 90% of the news racks offer a fairer, non-biased appraisal of the world at large. Perhaps we should reference them instead.

Or the daily mail.

 

[SmokyDave]

The issue of the EU has always been a contentious subject within the conservatine party, and always will be. My point is that there is STILL a division in the conservative party that has yet to been rectified and it's uncertainty like that that worries me.

As for the right to buy... it is, on its own, not a right wing policy, but the implications it has on the poor certainly is. Aspirational politics isn't a bad thing, but it is an undeniable fact that the free-market has run wild on house and rental prices, so if anything we need more state housing, not less. So, yeah, in my eyes, it is a right wing policy if they keep selling off state housing and refuse to build new ones.

I think Right To Buy is fine. It's the bit where the stock isn't replenished that is the issue. I wish people would stress 'pro building social housing' over 'anti RTB'.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

This is key for US folks. Your Democrats are right of the Tories by quite a way.

People say that but it doesn't seem to be the case. Obama expanded medical coverage and Cameron wants to to privatize more of your system. Obama has granted amnesty for illegal immigrants and most UK parties want to limit legal immigration. He's raised taxes for the wealthy, vs the cuts in the UK.

 

[kitch9]

Oh, ok. Maybe one of the Murdoch/Barclay Bros papers that take up 90% of the news racks offer a fairer, non-biased appraisal of the world at large. Perhaps we should reference them instead.

Or the daily mail.

I haven't posted any.

 

[kitch9]

People say that but it doesn't seem to be the case. Obama expanded medical coverage and Cameron wants to to privatize more of your system. Obama has granted amnesty for illegal immigrants and most UK parties want to limit legal immigration. He's raised taxes for the wealthy, vs the cuts in the UK.

My god mate.

Really? I don't know where to start.

 

[PJV3]

And? Do you have details of the contracts performance?

Some of the best performing parts of the NHS are provided by private services.

Fertility for instance would be nothing but a few blood tests and dietary advice if it wasn't for the private sector.

Some cancer clinics are providing state of the art cancer treatments that would take years to get through NHS red tape.

The list is endless.

Now you change the argument into something far more complex, and I'm not totally against private sector involvement.

You should be wary, the cost of trying to rebuild services if things go wrong will be astronomical.

 

[Ding-Ding]

So how conservative is this conservative party vs the one in the US?

Lets put it this way. Our current Prime Minister was asked if he believed in God. He replied "Yes but I dont feel like I have a direct number"

Can you see him as a leader of the republicans (or democrats for that matter)

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Lets put it this way. Our current Prime Minister was asked if he believed in God. He replied "Yes but I dont feel like I have a direct number"

Can you see him as a leader of the republicans (our democrats for that matter)

Yes

The current leader of the senate republicans and house republicans aren't very religious.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Yes

I think you dont know much about american politics

 

[Kuros]

People say that but it doesn't seem to be the case. Obama expanded medical coverage and Cameron wants to to privatize more of your system. Obama has granted amnesty for illegal immigrants and most UK parties want to limit legal immigration. He's raised taxes for the wealthy, vs the cuts in the UK.

Obama brought in something that still makes US healthcare a country mile more capitalist than anything the Tories would ever bring in the UK.

 

[Raynes]

analyst Philip Collins believes Alan Johnson will take the labour leadership until they can get David Miliband back in

This needs to happen. Alan Johnson is a strong leader and speaker, has good views on abortion, electoral reform and faith schools

 

[Tak3n]

Sky just saying

if SNP pushed for another referendum and lost it then that would do huge damage to their mandate, and whilst they believe it would probably be a close 'yes' for independence it would be by no means guaranteed...

but he goes on to say he was told by the SNP, if they put independence on their manifesto for the Scottish elections and they win heavily, then that would signal a mandate for independence

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think you dont know much about american politics

If your post was saying a republican leader can't say a line like that then your just flat out wrong.

 

[Daemul]

Are people really trying to compare the Tories to the Republicans? Come on now. I'm a Scot and as anti-Tory as you can get and even I'll admit that the comparison is ridiculous.

If I was to place the Tories I would say that they were to the left of the Democrats, in the last term anyway with LD keeping them in check. We'll see where they end up in 5 years.

 

[Jonnax]

With all this talk about the Guardian being all evil, what is regarded as the best news source? Times, Telegraph? Daily Mail, Sun? Independent, FT?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Obama brought in something that still makes US healthcare a country mile more capitalist than anything the Tories would ever bring in the UK.

So they have different starting points. But ideologically the conservative party is to the right of the democratic party. In practical governance due to systemic reasons they can't enact their police like a British party can but the trope about all democrats being right of the conservatives is just false.

 

[kitch9]

Now you change the argument into something far more complex, and I'm not totally against private sector involvement.

You should be wary, the cost of trying to rebuild services if things go wrong will be astronomical.

The cost of setting them up is astronomical as well hence the attraction of private sector availability.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I dont think Johnson wants it, does he? He has had ample opportunity to take it, and he just seems to have a good gig on the Daily Politics with Portillo, Neil and the dog.

In other news, here's the trader Vic's menu as promised: