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[jim-jam bongs]

development usually should work the other way..you start bad,then you get better..but nowadays the opposite happens,first they show you shiny things they know they will never be able to deliver,then they shrug and just start with the real graphics and textures..and in the meanwhile they have still benefit from all that good press,people posting gifs on neogaf and what not.

if that is not dishonest for you...well good for you,I find it a bullshit practice (one of the many in the modern videogame industry) that we should stop forgiving publisher and develpers for..especially since the one who need to be defended nowadays it's the customer..otherwise they will never stop,they will just coontinue pushing the boundaries of how much they can get away with.

Of course it's dishonest, but is it new? The term "bullshot" was coined over a decade ago, at this point it's safer to just assume that devs are lying whenever they release early screens or videos.

And again, I don't think this is straight downgrade territory. Some of the things which jump out as different, like the lessened depth-of-field effect for example, could genuinely be conscious decisions which have nothing to do with performance.

 

[FyreWulff]

"I submit as evidence of a downgrade, the gif format, which can't even represent the full color spectrum that the game actually has"

 

[Krejlooc]

all the years of seeing pre-alpha videos of games in development proves that wrong.. Games start out simply in graphical fidelity and are improved over time.

oh jesus christ, I am out of this topic.

 

[Waikis]

Called out for what? Every one who wants to buy this game will get a chance to see what it looks like before releases. CD Projekt Red has absolutely nothing to apologize or be held accountable for.

They have been saying for a while now that the game has not been downgraded, should cdpr not be accountable for their own comments?

 

[CyberPunked]

The foliage is clearly much lower quality. The lighting on the grass looks so bad, it looks like it's not even shaded...

 

[tuxfool]

Considering what Sony promised, yes.

When did Sony promise this? and how?

Also regardless of what Sony promised, anybody with eyes and the slightest bit of insight would tell you never in the world that it would run like that on the caliber of hardware in the ps4.

 

[Lunar15]

My final word on this is same as it always is, never pre-order a game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

all the years of seeing pre-alpha videos of games in development proves that wrong.. Games start out simply in graphical fidelity and are improved over time. Usually through improvements in hardware (PC) or just simple optimization

It should be noted that you're talking to a game developer. So I think he has much more knowledge about the subject than you. Speaking of, have you ever heard of target renders?

 

[mercenar1e]

so was this downgraded because of the problems that the "insider" posted about in the other thread a few months back or is it due to some console limitations?

 

[Brakus]

It is a shame, definitely downgraded from what's been shown, just wish they wouldn't show off games, when the devs likely know that the shipping product probably won't hit that level of detail etc, good for hooking people with a nice demo reel I guess, Dark Souls 2.

 

[Kusagari]

Considering trailers years before a game comes out "advertising" is a joke.

If they use those images in their marketing campaign then yes take them to task. Otherwise, lt's a nonissue as they clearly noted previous displays were a work in progress.

 

[Pop]

The foliage is clearly much lower quality. The lighting on the grass looks so bad, it looks like it's not even shaded...

Time of day? I noticed games with a day-night cycle, always get shit for this.

 

[todd360]

I am the fan of my graphics card
PCB is my body and water coolant is my blood
I have created over a thousand graphiks
Unknown to casual, Nor known to peasants
Have withstood downgrade to create many deceptive advertisements
Yet, those hands will never stop throwing money
So as I compute, unlimited graphics downgrades.

 

[Majukun]

that's not how development works at all. You can't just wave a magic wand and produce more from less. You don't generate new detail out of thin air. Going backwards is how it always works.

usually you start with placeholders,then you add better texture and the various effects..constantly checking step by step if what you are adding runs well and at a decent framerate.

never saw someone make better textures,amazing effects,and spending time doing so,to then just scrap them because they obviously weren't viable from the strat because you shoot for the stars and beyond to get attention of the customers.

 

[tuxfool]

I was just saying to people not to expect that from most PC/consoles. Don't really care about the PS4.

Some people didn't get that memo.

Considering what Sony promised, yes.

 

[szaromir]

They have been saying for a while now that the game has not been downgraded, should cdpr not be accountable for their own comments?

Well the game was never downgraded, only that the game and the early promotional materials had very little in common ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[jett]

While the OP's post is riddled with awful pictures, I don't believe the game looks as good as the Sword of Destiny trailer. Just something about it is missing.

 

[BPoole]

Oh well, it still looks good enough. At least I won't have to fiddle around with options as much to get it running locked at 60

 

[hermeslyre]

I wonder why CD projekt red went through with the downgrade. It's clear they had a much prettier looking game running in 2013, couldn't they just leave those settings, textures, assets, etc in the game and set that as the ultra graphical setting and let the pc gamers worry about whether or not their pc's could handle it? It seems like they took out whatever a single 980 gtx couldn't handle at 1080 60 fps. I have a feeling they didn't want the pc version with high settings to look like an entirely different game compared with the console versions. Similar to the story we had with ubisoft and watchdogs where they gimped the game on pc so that the differences between the pc and console versions weren't as extreme.

This is the important point for me. Was it downgraded simply to reduce the differences between the console and PC versions? To make the console versions look better in comparison.

I mean in this interview right here from march the devs state their "aim is to achieve visual parity between console and PC versions." Fuck that.

 

[MattKeil]

wait...WHAT??

while many people are overreacting to the whole thing..they are still developers selling a game to us..if they lied when advertising the game,they deserve any backlash they got and they will get

we really should start behaving like customers that have rights and not as paladins of developer and publishers

They didn't "lie" to us. Showing examples of how they want/expect the game to look and then having to pull back from that target during development is a reality of game dev, not an intentional misrepresentation of the game. If they're trying to sell a lie, why show the "downgraded" game more than a year out from release? Demos and previews are intended to give you a glimpse of the game in its current state, and we don't know what happens behind the scenes much of the time in between those states. It's not CDPR's fault that people cling to footage from two years ago as though it were some kind of soulbinding promise of visual fidelity.

Christ, do people even know what "lying" means anymore? These threads make it painfully, embarrassingly obvious how little most gamers know about the development process.

 

[Gunslinger]

Bros you must have expected this. Witcher requires top of the line graphics card just to hit 60fps. Ps4 or Xbox probably running at very low settings to even reach steady 30fps. There is no way a console player can't expect the graphics look like the trailer one. As a matter of fact everyone should expect downgrade. Most trailers are marketing promotion. Batman, battlefront etc will also experience severe downgrade IMO.

 

[biggersmaller]

Game still looks good, but like 90% of all AAA releases, the announcement footage looks considerably better than launch. As said in the thread, it's deceptive marketing. BUT I'm still excited, because if dishonest marketing was all it took to get me super pissed, I would never be excited to buy anything ever.

 

[His Majesty]

They have been saying for a while now that the game has not been downgraded, should cdpr not be accountable for their own comments?

The first build they showcased was at E3 2014. Compared to that, there are no signs of a downgrade. I think CDProjekt uses that as a reference point instead of the earlier 2013 trailer.

 

[tuxfool]

It is a shame, definitely downgraded from what's been shown, just wish they wouldn't show off games, when the devs likely know that the shipping product probably won't hit that level of detail etc, good for hooking people with a nice demo reel I guess, Dark Souls 2.

What happens when they don't know? How can they know?

If you ask most developers, they'll tell you that they don't know.

 

[Majukun]

Of course it's dishonest, but is it new? The term "bullshot" was coined over a decade ago, at this point it's safer to just assume that devs are lying whenever they release early screens or videos.

And again, I don't think this is straight downgrade territory. Some of the things which jump out as different, like the lessened depth-of-field effect for example, could genuinely be conscious decisions which have nothing to do with performance.

nobody said it's new.

that doesn't mean it shouldn't be called out...actually,it should be called out everytime..much like with any other dishonest practice...we are customers goddamnit,we don't need to justify them,it's good to ASK something from them once in a while

 

[1st Course]

So good

 

[Obliterator]

While it does appear the game has been downgraded in some ways its still plenty gorgeous.

Plus the game looks incredible. The game looks visually plenty good for current hardware and considering how huge it is the fidelity it does have is impressive.

 

[Vire]

Can't wait for the inevitable Battlefront thread.

#teamcastlebestgraphix

 

[tuxfool]

usually you start with placeholders,then you add better texture and the various effects..constantly checking step by step if what you are adding runs well and at a decent framerate.

never saw someone make better textures,amazing effects,and spending time doing so,to then just scrap them because they obviously weren't viable from the strat because you shoot for the stars and beyond to get attention of the customers.

Are you a game developer? Have you any knowledge of the processes used in development? Or are you just making stuff up?

 

[MiszMasz]

I wonder why CD projekt red went through with the downgrade. It's clear they had a much prettier looking game running in 2013, couldn't they just leave those settings, textures, assets, etc in the game and set that as the ultra graphical setting and let the pc gamers worry about whether or not their pc's could handle it? It seems like they took out whatever a single 980 gtx couldn't handle at 1080 60 fps. I have a feeling they didn't want the pc version with high settings to look like an entirely different game compared with the console versions. Similar to the story we had with ubisoft and watchdogs where they gimped the game on all versions so that the differences between the versions weren't as extreme.

There's a very good chance that whatever hardware they were using to run those earlier builds for promo was not only very high-end, but expensive as hell. And why not, when you want to show off what you've got so far?

But as time goes on, and when the vast majority of PC gamers (nevermind console) still aren't running those specs, why plan to put the game out like that when hardly anyone's going to be able to run it anywhere near that nicely?

 

[Valnen]

Can't wait for the inevitable Battlefront thread.

#teamcastlebestgraphix

They brought any downgrade criticism on themselves with the "Yes, that is actually what the game looks like." tweet.

 

[jelly]

Never trust pre release AAA lighting.

 

[tuxfool]

Can't wait for the inevitable Battlefront thread.

#teamcastlebestgraphix

Ain't going to happen. Nobody believes what they released is possible. People that have seen the real gameplay have stated that the game doesn't look like what was shown in the public trailer.

 

[Apoleptica]

This is the important point for me. Was it downgraded simply to reduce the differences between the console and PC versions? To make the console versions look better in comparison.

I mean in this interview right here from march the devs state their "aim is to achieve visual parity between console and PC versions." Fuck that.

Honestly that is exactly what is seems like :\ which is why I even care about a visual downgrade, the fact that they likely did it for the wrong reasons.

 

[Armadilo]

the crazy part of all this is that They had always only shown PC footage until this week were PS4 footage was finally shown

 

[JuanLatino]

Couldn't care less (Watch Dogs on the other side bothered me)

What makes me excited about the Witcher is the whole atmosphere, that beautfiful huge World, the music and the interesting Storyline (which is normally bad in Western RPG Games)

However, for such an huge RPG Game it still looks fantastic

Most Wanted next to MGS V

 

[Majukun]

Makes more sense to start with the best assets and then when you hit some bumps you start optimizing the game. Probably what happened here too.

since the better assets don't magically appear from nothing but you need to spend money and time on them,it doesn't seem the logical way to proceed at all to me.

 

[Valnen]

Ain't going to happen. Nobody believes what they released is possible. People that have seen the real gameplay have stated that the game doesn't look like what was shown in the public trailer.

I don't believe it's possible either, but they should still be heavily criticized for claiming the game will look like that.

 

[MisterShine]

This should be of no surprise to anyone.

I'm sure the internet's pitchforks will be nice and sharp at CDPR for about a day over it.

 

[robertsan21]

Hopefully devs take note and wont show a game that looks nowhere near what we are getting. Its just asking for trouble.

 

[Yasae]

Are they still using that old footage right now? no.

Yes. https://youtu.be/YHaHrzt44IM?t=198

Is their old footage preceded with the usual disclaimer that "this is a work in progress and not indicative of the final product"? Yes.

Debut gameplay trailer: No

VGX: No

Sword of Destiny: No

35 minutes of gameplay: Yes

 

[hermeslyre]

There's a very good chance that whatever hardware they were using to run those earlier builds for promo was not only very high-end, but expensive as hell. And why not, when you want to show off what you've got so far?

But as time goes on, and when the vast majority of PC gamers (nevermind console) still aren't running those specs, why plan to put the game out like that when hardly anyone's going to be able to run it anywhere near that nicely?

Why did Crysis look the way it did back in 2007 when it released? I could only run it on medium settings on my 7600gt. That was the situation most people were in.

Do we prefer a world where Crysis wasn't the graphical masterpiece it was back then, in order to better scale with realistic hardware choices?

 

[Sal Ami]

Bros you must have expected this. Witcher requires top of the line graphics card just to hit 60fps. Ps4 or Xbox probably running at very low settings to even reach steady 30fps. There is no way a console player can't expect the graphics look like the trailer one. As a matter of fact everyone should expect downgrade. Most trailers are marketing promotion. Batman, battlefront etc will also experience severe downgrade IMO.

I do not know about Battlefront. DICE is very mysterious nowadays, especially when you look at BF3 and BF4 compared to the console versions. BF3 was demoed on PC at E3. EA even mentioned that at the press conference if I remember correctly.

 

[RandomSeed]

Just a question. What percentage of people do you think owns hardware powerful enough to play the game if it was released looking exactly like the early videos? How much more time and money should they have put into a game so __% of pc games could max it out, while no doubt raising the minimum specs so others can't play it? Assuming a 980 can play the game on ultra @60fps, it would have to be well beyond a ($550-600) 980. Could the people that pay over $1,000 for SLI even max that game?

 

[viveks86]

Would be interesting to see this debate once the final game is out. Some of it seem like artistic changes, but others are clearly a step (or two) backwards. It still looks great, but not as great as it used to. And that's ok. As long as I know what I'm buying, I have nothing to complain about. Just a little disappointed that we might have to wait a while before an open world game can actually reach those lofty ambitions.

Just a few days to go before we can see for ourselves!

 

[iNvid02]

the old footage was sharpened to hell and back, and CDPR admitted there was some post processing applied to one of the trailers. downgrade is stretching it because it looks better in some areas, and worse in others.

 

[Galileo]

The first build they showcased was at E3 2014. Compared to that, there are no signs of a downgrade. I think CDProjekt uses that as a reference point instead of the earlier 2013 trailer.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, that's why the comparison in the OP has to resort to highlight different grass placement (which of course means nothing from a technical standpoint) to prove the "downgrade" in that case

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Just a question. What percentage of people do you think owns hardware powerful enough to play the game if it was released looking exactly like the early videos? How much more time and money should they have put into a game so __% of pc games could max it out, while no doubt raising the minimum specs so others can't play it? Assuming a 980 can play the game on ultra @60fps, it would have to be well beyond a ($550-600) 980. Could the people that pay over $1,000 for SLI even max that game?

So like Crysis

 

[tuxfool]

I don't believe it's possible either, but they should still be heavily criticized for claiming the game will look like that.

If it says work in progress, they can say whatever they want, you will find that they cannot know what it will look like in the end, they can only guess. You should then decide if it seems feasible or not. End of story.

 

[matrixman92]

Cool, can't wait to play it day one