Sorry this is the graphics downgrade only thread. No one in here cares about gameplay.Gameplay is overrated, graphics and graphics alone make a game worth playing these days.
Maybe take that to the gameplay thread or make one if there isn't one.
Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
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Sorry this is the graphics downgrade only thread. No one in here cares about gameplay.Gameplay is overrated, graphics and graphics alone make a game worth playing these days.
Maybe take that to the gameplay thread or make one if there isn't one.
I'm saying that a company with a good reputation and has established trust in the marketplace makes their egregious behavior more glaring due to their previous stellar reputation and that to treat the victim in that situation in the same way you would a person that got duped by a known shady huckster is absurd IMO.
It's disingenuous to make that equivalency. Of course people in that industry know fakes happen, but like videogames, not everyone is a blatant crook. So when one of the good guys does something that the bad guys normally do, I'm not going to look at the situation and judge the victims of that deception the same way I would judge the victims that got deceived by the widely known shady guys.
Novum_Veritas
Member
So the conclusion would be distrust CD Project like Ubisoft and other companies because they lied into your face and not even apologizing for it?
This won't end the circle. So you think CD Project is at full fault here, interesting POV.
What if the reputable company initially said it was the full, real Rolex piece and then over the next year (and before you were locked into the purchase) actually explained that this is no longer the case but you can still cancel your order and back out of the deal?
Hans.Gruber
Banned
A "showbizz" insider once told me that celebrities use make up and hair design to hide all these biological downgrades from us.
Nah seriously, IMO expecting a E3 video to look like the retail game is like thinking Scarlett looks like her Vanity Fair cover photo IRL.
I think the point is that people were defending in conversations CD Project like they were some saint developer. To be honest, all of them are the same, they all bow to the publishers, and they all should receive same treatment for same bullshit. Equal approach.
OmegaDL50
Member
It's a good thing CDPR isn't EA I guess?
Did you play either Witcher 1 or 2, I'm genuinely curious.
No I'm saying that if it was ubisoft doing this I would judge the deceived harsher because they had ample evidence to be better informed and still allowed themselves to be deceived.
Blame wise, it still falls primarily on the company. They pushed the deception and stood by it. Should consumers do more to stop it and punish these things? Sure, but that doesn't change that the company doing the deceiving will always be the primary agent of blame for me.
| Praxis |
Banned
Oh, I didn't mean the game looks bad at all. It was more of a question as to why I'm not hyped. I have steadily been less and less interested in open world RPG's, especially medieval fantasy based ones. Not sure if it's an age thing or what, but it's worrying because I would have loved this in my teens. The game looks good, why am I uninterested? Admittedly I had the same problems with the second game for the same reasons.
The downgrade is noticeable though, but not a disaster. It still looks great visually.
Final Verdict
Member
I can see the downgrade, but I still think it looks good.
Novum_Veritas
Member
I agree on that even if they say to you they are different, it seems CD Project couldn't be different because of publisher bounds.
This is a more accurate metaphor than the one going around.
Novum_Veritas
Member
So the next time CD Project will publish a game like say Cyberpunk 2077 you will not buy into their lies ? Waiting for actual real footage ?
It is rather the simple way to put ALL blame on the company, so you as a customer are only the victim, as I said interesting POV, but it is rather lacking overall.
To put it short, you have the money, you buy the products, you have it in your hand if companies can still do this or need other ways to handle customers.
Except CDprojekt red still insists the Rolex is the same and even uses early promotional Rolex material as current marketing for the current product.
The Janitor
Member
Here's some recent screenshots that aren't butchered by compression
Is it downgraded? Probably, but it still looks great.
Is it downgraded? Probably, but it still looks great.
However, regardless of PR (because PR's always been so honest in this industry, right?), we can and have seen more recent footage.
Regardless of what has been claimed, we can actually see with our own eyes in any number of gaming news outlets and forums that the supposed Rolex doesn't actually say 'Rolex' on the face.
OmegaDL50
Member
I know this isn't on the subject of the downgrade issue, but something that sticks out like a sore thumb to me.
Along the lines of CDPR defending their point about there is not downgrade a on their forum, which is obviously false.
I just wonder if they can openly deny the downgrade like this, then what does that say about the GMG thing.
Not really related but perhaps this speaks more about the unreliability of their forum staff.
I enjoyed both The Witcher 1 and 2, but this kind of thing doesn't just sit well with me. I'm still probably going to enjoy The Witcher 3, but unchecked forum comments just ultimately seem like poor PR all in all.
It's better to be honest and come clean rather then cast doubt.. I believe that is the biggest issue. If CDPR simply came clean and honestly stated there was a downgrade, then a good considerable amount of the scrutiny wouldn't emphasized on the first place. CDPR effectively made the situation worse but not setting it straight instead when straight for a denial.
Along the lines of CDPR defending their point about there is not downgrade a on their forum, which is obviously false.
I just wonder if they can openly deny the downgrade like this, then what does that say about the GMG thing.
Not really related but perhaps this speaks more about the unreliability of their forum staff.
I enjoyed both The Witcher 1 and 2, but this kind of thing doesn't just sit well with me. I'm still probably going to enjoy The Witcher 3, but unchecked forum comments just ultimately seem like poor PR all in all.
It's better to be honest and come clean rather then cast doubt.. I believe that is the biggest issue. If CDPR simply came clean and honestly stated there was a downgrade, then a good considerable amount of the scrutiny wouldn't emphasized on the first place. CDPR effectively made the situation worse but not setting it straight instead when straight for a denial.
You keep trying to frame this as a zero sum game. It is not.
Prior to this they had a stellar reputation, now, they clearly won't. So obviously the expectation of their trust in terms of accurate marketing shifts with it. So going forward less trust should be given toward them and I will have less sympathy for people that let themselves be deceived.
As for the lies, The liar is always at fault for the lies. Just like the thief is still responsible for the thievery even if the victim knowingly chose a bad neighborhood.
Novum_Veritas
Member
Companies have a habit not to say that they are false or are wrong, that is a common problem, you will never hear that they will say we promised something wrong or we are deeply sorry we did.
Jigolo
Member
They've also said it wasn't downgraded in at least 1 interview
Don't tell that to some people in this thread...
But again, this whole conversation is stemming from a hypothetical. So remember that what is being argued is within the confines of that hypothetical.
Currently you are right though. It is clear as day and anyone that is now going to make a decision based on early footage is not gonna get much sympathy from me.
Novum_Veritas
Member
Their reputation was already shattered with the announcement with the Expansion Pass, do you think people will less trust CD Project now?
How long did it took till people now really hated UbiSoft for their shit, and they bring 1 game out which is great, people let them pass again, weird is it not? I think the game in question would be Far Cry 4.
I've noticed the same thing. The people claiming downgrades are mostly just making drive by posts saying ridiculous stuff like "it looks nowhere as good anymore". A few of them manage to post a couple screenshots, but it's almost always some nonsensical comparison of totally different areas with different assets and different lighting conditions.
I'm posting numerous screenshots of much more comparable scenes and trying to engage in an actual discussion, but those people are doing their best to ignore that evidence.
If the game truly has been downgraded, especially if in a significant way as some of them claim, it should be easy to post just as many similar or identical scenes showing a downgrade. There also wouldn't be so many screenshots of the same or similar scenes which show the newer version looking the same or better than the old version. If there really were a significant downgrade the old version should pretty consistently look better in each scene, but that's not what the evidence shows at all.
Hopefully this is the game running outside of Ultra and it being more in tune with what consoles are capable of. I'm sure that they don't want to misrepresent the game too much for console players when they finally make that purchase. I know there was an NVIDIA tech trailer, but even then they could have dialed some of the eye candy back so as not to have disappointment cone from the majority of the people who are going to buy this game.
I find it hard to believe that CDPR created 2 different assesses only to have one group thrown away. Why would they spend time creating awesome tessellated structures and dense foliage only to have it disappear. There was that one Polish group playing this maxed out on PC saying that the foliage is a sight to behold.
Maybe this engine just scales really well.
But what do people expect developers to do when creating an open world experience on toasters?
I guess they could have thrown black bars on there to limit the resolution and put a hazy ass filter on it to lower the resolution even more for extra eye candy and claim it is an artistic filmic vision for their game and call it a day.
I find it hard to believe that CDPR created 2 different assesses only to have one group thrown away. Why would they spend time creating awesome tessellated structures and dense foliage only to have it disappear. There was that one Polish group playing this maxed out on PC saying that the foliage is a sight to behold.
Maybe this engine just scales really well.
But what do people expect developers to do when creating an open world experience on toasters?
I guess they could have thrown black bars on there to limit the resolution and put a hazy ass filter on it to lower the resolution even more for extra eye candy and claim it is an artistic filmic vision for their game and call it a day.
I'm not sure what is even being argued anymore.
Obviously at this point the reputation of cd project red is being shattered with regards to accurate graphics marketing. Obviously ubisoft shouldn't be trusted with their marketing based on reputation.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Did CDProjekt ever comment on this, wether approving or denying this? Or are they doing a prank by releasing a day one patch which will correct all those issues just to to see people's reactions before the release of the game and their interest for it?
This is the biggest issue in all this for me as well.
It's undeniable a downgrade happened. The game still looks good, but not as good as it was promised. It's still probably great and I'll enjoy it no matter the downgraded graphics (hell, my current PC would probably fry trying to render it on Ultra anyway).
BUT the developer lying into everyone's face about it is just... so wrong. I mean, they released the screenshots and the videos over time. Just say "yes we had to cut down on the detail level because of [reasons]." But don't insist that everyone is suddenly blind.
I'd like to be on their side with the GMG thing but I just don't trust them at this point.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Christ why did i enter this thread.
I noticed that the igni signs didn't generate as much light. The water didn't ripple anywhere near like in the first one with them jumping around it and Geralt using signs didn't budge it in the new versions where is made huge waves in the old.. That's something that can't be blamed on video compression.
I also noticed that there was no green mist coming out of the swamp, but that could be because of the area or attacks.
Yes, I did.
CDPR: "No Graphics Downgrade In The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Optimizing To Get Best Performance As Possible"
http://www.gamepur.com/news/17821-c...-witcher-3-wild-hunt-optimizing-get-best.html
And to be clear, and i'm not at all claiming that the appearance of the game hasn't changed. Though i wouldn't claim to know what all the changes made are and/or their resultant effect in what we see now. For the most part i'm not even sure exactly what hardware or settings are being used for all of the more recent footage either.
I've not even been keeping a close eye on all this over the past year, i've just seen news about it pop up on Gaf, Reddit and various other sites in passing, and this has been enough for me personally to hold off on a preorder. Even with limited exposure to all that's been going on, i'd have had to ignore most of it intentionally to be caught out in any way at this juncture.
Novum_Veritas
Member
So both shouldn't be trusted?, UbiSoft has their bad reputation, CD Project seems to follow then.
Well we are still in the downgrade debate with the Witcher 3, your POV is obviously that the companies are at fault, they make false promises, the customer is the victim.
To make a short summary of it.
His Majesty
Banned
Don't think so, it just exposed a lot of selectively blind people on GAF. Some of the criticism on the graphics downgrade is valid, everything about the expansion pass is pure bullshit though.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
God tier target render bullshot.
Novum_Veritas
Member
Well i think it is the typical discount syndrome, if you say you grant a discount but cannot grant the discount after all the customer says but you promised to me, I know this because I work in retail, the same applied with you get free dlc in Witcher 3, but people were up roar about why is the Expansion pass payed DLC? I know that the downgrade stuff is valid, but many things are hyperbole especially it is not the 1st time in the game industry that it happens.
Their reputation? They said it in the very beginning (after Witcher 2), that small dlc's will always be free (unlike others who demand money for it), but for large content they will charge money for it.
It was done 10+ years ago (it's called expansion pack).
Like @His Majesty said, it only showed us people who can't read and understand what CDPR said. Maybe the people are also average gamers who don't know about expansions, I dunno.
an example, Wolfenstein - The Old Blood just released, you could say that it is an (standalone) expansion but people expected it to be free, because the dlc's were (hypothetically) free.
Novum_Veritas
Member
I know you do not have to tell me, but I remember the thread here that people were up roar about it that CD Project lied to them(obviously they didn't because they stated it clearly.)
Regarding Igni, do we know for sure that it's not an upgraded version or something in the first gif? The difference is so huge I want to believe it's simply a stronger Sign being cast.
Water can't be denied though
sammyCYBORG
Member
GIANKRATOS
Member
To compare with the gif in the OP
It's a pretty massive downgrade.
Yep, pretty big downgrade imho
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