dave is ok
aztek is ok
He probably told the people who prep the balls that he likes them soft. I doubt he explicitly told anyone to violate any league rules.
Tom Brady suspended for 4 games; Patriots lose first-round draft pick; fined $1 mil
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That was also an insane punishment by the league.
Probably is more than enough according the NFL rules. Probably no different certainly in terms of the rules. The standard of proof is preponderance of doubt. Did the NFL know what Roethlisberger was up to in that bathroom in 2010? Nope, still banned him for 6 games (later reduced to 4 on appeal).
The NFL doesn't need to be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, the rule book and CBA standard is balance of probabilities. Having enough evidence to say that something probably happened is the standard needed to discipline.
People might not agree to it, but that's what the CBA defined.
They had to come down hard due to CTE. The difference between Check and Payton was Payton was already warned about this specific matter and it continued, while once the Pats were warned about it they stopped right away.
This does make sense. My balls are generally soft, I heard if they feel hard I might have cancer.
The Albatross
Member
For what it's worth, "Probably is no different than certainly" seemingly only applies selectively. For instance, with Ray Rice, while he probably knocked his girlfriend out, the league didn't deliver a stiff punishment until after the videotape was released that certainly shattered any doubt.
Yep, this was the stiffest punishment that the league has ever handed down. The timing of it didn't help New Orleans, though, as the story broke right when the NFL's Concussion issues were really reaching a fever pitch in the media and when the NFL was negotiating the new CBA (part of the complexity with the CBA at the time was how the league would deal with veterans who had life altering head injuries). So when it comes out that a team -- whoever knows about it -- is pooling money together as a reward for injuring players, the league had to be seen as coming down hard on it... Both for the media and the CBA. It was a very harsh punishment though, but at the time, needed.
Nah, the NFL had a long history of giving neglible punishment to domestic violence cases. (Michael Pittman, James Harrison, Greg Hardy). Once the Ray Rice video got shown, the whole paradigm changed (thus Hardy getting the book thrown at him after the fact).
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Given how imprecise the officials measurements were you have to wonder if the Patriots guage was also off.
Or more than likely no one ever measured them since it was such a minor rule and the NFL didn't care, and just went with what "felt" right.
The Albatross
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Hardy last season, wasn't that a team punishment, e.g., the team basically suspended him from football activities for the year, but he still got paid?
I'm sure I could google this and find out, but everything on Google at the top is about his latest suspension with Dallas, not last year's, and I'm lazy.
I'm a pats fan.
<---- clearly
And I have no doubt it started out like this. If I recall the Wells report mentions how Tom made sure the refs were aware the balls were around 12.5 or something.
But I can see how one thing can lead to another and then you're asking people to see if you could lower them further. Idk. Even if he never gave the order to lower them, he must have known it was going on. Don't know why the equipment managers would knowingly do it without his knowledge. Trying to affect the game themselves or something? idk.
No... I listen to WFAN everyday. They legitimately don't give a shit, and most of the country doesn't either.
Sour grapes and sore losers as far as the eye can see.
His latest punishment with Dallas was for the domestic violence. Carolina had no qualms about play Hardy until the pushback the NFL was receiving for Rice Gate.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
My hatred for goodell makes me think he's pressing people to call this 'severe' punishment. How much did rapistburger get? I can't tell what the NFL doesn't like. 3 weed dings is 4 times worse than cheating?
Yeah, that's what I meant, Benigno would probably talk about it for 5 minutes and than go on talking about DeGrom for 2 hours straight. This is nothing.
This is how much the NFL didn't care:
- The league is informed of Patriots manipulating footballs
- The referees check the footballs, but do not document any of the PSI levels.
- The footballs go missing and are later found in the possession of a Patriots employee. No one thinks anything of it, and they let the game be played with those balls.
If the integrity is so important why aren't the referees being reprimanded.
Haloid1177
Banned
Because then it's the NFL's fault too and not completely on the Patriots.
LyleLanley
Banned
Apparently today Harry Reid said that it's stunning that the NFL cares more about deflategate than "a racist franchise name". I wonder how often we'll hear things like this being said whenever Goodell seems to be taking an issue lightly.
yes you are correct. the panthers were following the letter of the law in NC (once you appeal the whole thing goes back to square one, so he was no longer guilty in the eyes of the law) in regards to Hardy's case but once the ray rice thing happened they were forced to act. the real shame is that the NFL never intervened. you can't leave a decision like that in the hands of the organization who would obviously be biased towards having a great player on the field but the NFL just didn't give a shit until they had to.
Punishment is all managing public relations for Goodell.
The name won't be changed until public sentiment becomes too strong to ignore. Goodell is a reactive commissioner rather than one with the foresight and wisdom to lead.
teruterubozu
Member
What about the ball boy? Does he get punished? Or was he "coerced"?
I love how the NFL just shit on the NBA/NHL playoffs.
I love how the NFL just shit on the NBA/NHL playoffs.
Megalosaro
Banned
Indefinite suspension
Oh right, the playoffs.
It's pretty cleverly timed really. A week after the draft, the report comes out. About a week later, the punishment comes out. Now comes the appeal process
NFL year round
This is poetry.
No matter what, the cheater is 100% at fault. Opportunity to cheat does not cause one to cheat.
Do people really think it's possible, or even plausible, that a Patriot's employee who'd been around the organization for decades, would steal footballs from the officials locker room and surreptitiously deflate them in a bathroom before bringing them to the field, totally on his own? Or by order of a goddamn assistant equipment man? The dude had to know there were cameras everywhere and he'd be caught if anyone cared to look. No adult would take a risk like that without assurance of official cover. It follows that it also makes no sense to take all that risk if all you were going for was a ball at the lowest end of the legal limit. Forget PSIs, forget text messages, just look at the absolute facts of what we know happened (dude stole balls from officials and deflated them, that is indisputable) and spin me some non-fiction where Tom didn't order it or at least know it was happening.
Exactly. Why the hell would the equipment guys decide all on their own to do it?
BadAss2961
Member
Then some foolish GM overpays him, and the Pats get their picks back.
For a second there it seemed like you were arguing that they didn't even do it. I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but not your conclusion.
It is very 'disputable', but I don't think I'll bother. The report doesn't even claim it is certain.
The NFL isn't law enforcement and therefore cannot subpoena people or companies (like cell phone companies for example) for evidence. It's unfair to expect them to come up with hard evidence the way a judicial prosecuting team could. They are a private organization making decisions based the information they have. When a company disciplines (or even fires) their workers, they don't need proof. They do it when they think there's good reason to believe there is guilt. And without the subpoena power of law enforcement, that's all you can expect.
I understand that; I was responding to the idea that it is indisputable which is clearly not the case as even the report states.
Unfair to the NFL? I think it's totally fair to expect the NFL to provide, and demand of themselves, a higher threshold of accountability, but it's not to be expected of the league at this time. I think the idea that this was very flimsily constructed is a major problem and should have been taken into account, as well as the severity of the infraction. But I can respect those who disagree.
That's what's happening here. Punishing Brady is a step towards accountability.
LyleLanley
Banned
The Patriots changed their Twitter profile picture to a picture of a Brady Jersey. #IStandWithBrady
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
#ILieWithBrady
The Deflater, a Netflix-exclusive movie, with a 30-minute montage of Rob Lowe deflating footballs in the stadium bathroom is going to be awesome. Cameo by Channing Tatum as Gronk.
LyleLanley
Banned
Gisele, is that you?
It's based on the exact same level of proof which decides civil cases. Basically if you enter a courtroom for something which isn't a criminal case, the case is tried and decided on the same standard of proof which the Wells investigation found.
It could be game changing if it gives you an edge and prevents turnovers.
Then again it's the principle. A rule was broken and then the Patriots lied and tried to cover up.
Name won't change just cause Goodell wants it too. He doesn't own the team and can't force them to change it.
Do we have data for patriot fumble rates home vs away since 2007? I'm trying to find them online but i can only find that sharp report that includes both.
Megalosaro
Banned
How does that fund me work? Is there any guarantee it will go to the fine?
There isn't even evidence he asked for them to be lowered period.
There isn't even evidence he asked for them to be lowered period.
Well... That's not entirely true. There is certainly circumstantial evidence. I think it's pretty clear that he prefers his balls slightly under-inflated, but if there is no evidence that he wanted the balls below what's considered the minimum PSI. He'll repeal and the suspension will be lowered to 2 games.
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