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[Doom85]

I'm pretty sure they will have Wanda, Thanos, and Doom all teaming up against a greater bad guy. The MCU villain roster is by now the far more interesting cast compared to the bland heroes they got.

If so, that will be at the end of Phase 9. Ain't no way they're going to have time to bring back Wanda and Thanos, spend a ton of time with Doom as the villain, but then also spend a ton of time with this vague other villain that you don't even have a concrete pick for as well?

Like, have you looked at the cast (which has been confirmed isn't even all of them) for Avengers Doomsday? Are you expecting a four hour movie for each one? Because that's what it would take to cover the insane amount of stuff you're suggesting.

 

[jason10mm]

If so, that will be at the end of Phase 9. Ain't no way they're going to have time to bring back Wanda and Thanos, spend a ton of time with Doom as the villain, but then also spend a ton of time with this vague other villain that you don't even have a concrete pick for as well?

Like, have you looked at the cast (which has been confirmed isn't even all of them) for Avengers Doomsday? Are you expecting a four hour movie for each one? Because that's what it would take to cover the insane amount of stuff you're suggesting.

Have you seen that cast list, like 20 actors long including all those old x-men? How are they gonna do ANY of them justice? Loki back? How? F4, Thunderbolts, shang-chi, all those wakandans, namor, how are all those randos gonna team up? It's already a cameo filled shit fest, why not throw in some of the more well received villains?

And yes, Secret Wars part 1 and 2, then Planet Doom part 1 and 2 is EXACTLY what I'm expecting, nothing else in the mcu quiver is hitting the target right now.

 

[Doom85]

Have you seen that cast list, like 20 actors long including all those old x-men? How are they gonna do ANY of them justice? Loki back? How? F4, Thunderbolts, shang-chi, all those wakandans, namor, how are all those randos gonna team up? It's already a cameo filled shit fest, why not throw in some of the more well received villains?

And yes, Secret Wars part 1 and 2, then Planet Doom part 1 and 2 is EXACTLY what I'm expecting, nothing else in the mcu quiver is hitting the target right now.

So your answer to dealing with a massive cast is to……add even more to the cast?

Planet Doom? Aside from a random episode of the Avengers Assemble cartoon (which is considered generally inferior to the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon that preceded it), there is no such thing as Planet Doom.

Also, so wait, your idea is Doom redeems himself and robs the audience of a proper final showdown against him in Secret Wars, but then, wait, let's do some random 2-parter where he's a villain again and THIS TIME they'll beat him?

Yes, unnecessarily stretch out giving the audience what they want, that'll go well.

 

[bitbydeath]

Doom is not going to be a "good guy" ... He's the villain in Doomsday and Secret Wars. After SW, someone else will be Doom. Rdj is only doom for the finale of the Multiverse Saga

I think he'll see himself as the good guy, much like how Thanos believed his plan was best for the universe.

 

[AJUMP23]

I think he'll see himself as the good guy, much like how Thanos believed his plan was best for the universe.

That is every villain ever. They know better and people just don't understand. Thanos is essentially an environmentalist. Make him part of the Just Stop Oil crowd.

 

[jason10mm]

So your answer to dealing with a massive cast is to……add even more to the cast?

Sure. None of the big name villains need to be reintroduced, unlike alllllll of these c-teir heroes. Who even remembers riri or shang-chi anymore? But you could have dr strange walk into a room and say "i don't like any of you, but the universe NEEDS you" and pan over to Hela, Thanos, Wanda, and maybe that gold guy from gotg and the entire audience would erupt in cheers. Take 30 seconds.

Also, so wait, your idea is Doom redeems himself and robs the audience of a proper final showdown against him in Secret Wars, but then, wait, let's do some random 2-parter where he's a villain again and THIS TIME they'll beat him?

They dropped EIGHTY FRICKING MILLION dollars to get RDJ as Doom. WHY donthst unless the Tony Stark connection is gonna be central to Dooms arc, and what arc could he have but to be a villain that comes around? It's so obvious.

Yes, unnecessarily stretch out giving the audience what they want, that'll go well.

The audience WANTS Tony back. Clear as fucking day. Doom meets Tony's daughter, pepper says some silly shit, Doom gets that twinkle in his eye, delivers a sarcastic quip, BOOM mic drop STARK IS BACK BABY!

 

[Doom85]

Sure. None of the big name villains need to be reintroduced, unlike alllllll of these c-teir heroes. Who even remembers riri or shang-chi anymore? But you could have dr strange walk into a room and say "i don't like any of you, but the universe NEEDS you" and pan over to Hela, Thanos, Wanda, and maybe that gold guy from gotg and the entire audience would erupt in cheers. Take 30 seconds.

They dropped EIGHTY FRICKING MILLION dollars to get RDJ as Doom. WHY donthst unless the Tony Stark connection is gonna be central to Dooms arc, and what arc could he have but to be a villain that comes around? It's so obvious.

The audience WANTS Tony back. Clear as fucking day. Doom meets Tony's daughter, pepper says some silly shit, Doom gets that twinkle in his eye, delivers a sarcastic quip, BOOM mic drop STARK IS BACK BABY!

-Shang-Chi had his own movie, you're playing if you think no one remembers him. Also, Riri hasn't even been confirmed to appear in Doomsday yet, but her TV show airs this year, so another poor example.

Also, why would Strange have beef with Adam Warlock (the golden guy), he was flat out a Guardians member at the end of 3. And why invite him but not Rocket, Groot, etc. who are with him now?

-it's insanely not obvious, especially because RDJ is done after Secret Wars. The guy will be 62 by the time of Secret Wars. You think people actually want a Tony Stark in his 70's by the time we reach Phase 9? Yes, the whole "till you're 90" meme from Deadpool and Wolverine, but that's not meant to be serious. Jackman will likely return in Secret Wars and that will be his final hurrah. Unless they actually want to do Old Man Logan and have Laura be Wolverine, but lord knows that would trigger a few people, and it's just unlikely as the new X-men films will have a new cast playing the iconic characters and it would be weird as fuck to have the one senior citizen going with them on their missions among everyone else being in their 20's/early 30's.

You do realize people just might be open to RDJ playing the villain, right?

Also, RDJ got paid 40 million for Civil War. Yeah. And that movie released in 2016. So actually, 80 million for two films (and reportedly cameos and/or small roles in FF and a film between Doomsday and Secret Wars) is a pay CUT for RDJ.

So the numbers actually support my argument, thank you.

What arc could he have? Doom has a ton of motivation. His rivalry with Reed. His feelings for Sue. His desire to resurrect his mother (his first attempt is what causes his face to be badly damaged). His desire to rule his nation well but that leads him into believing he's justified in conquering everything to rule it as well. He's considered one of, if not THE, best villains of Marvel. Anyone who knows the comics even casually knows this.

RDJ playing Doom in of itself is a big deal. That's why they got them. But you have this weird notion no one will be satisfied with that. Ah yes, I remember people were booing the screen when Deadpool and Wolverine tricked people into thinking Chris Evans was back as Steve. Oh wait, no, people were chill about it, they were just happy to see Evans back as a Marvel character.

Like, dude, maybe do the bare amount of research on the character before you act so confident you know 100% what he'll turn out like.

-eww. What you're suggesting:

Dude, you've got to let RDJ Tony go already. He's dead, Jim, I mean, jason. It's already being reported that the MCU higher ups are now planning to bring in a new T'Challa with a new actor later down the road, you don't think they're looking into getting new actors for Tony and Steve at some point?

Like, they purposefully made sure Fantastic Four was the film right before Doomsday. The next Avengers film is called DOOMsday. When they showed the cast line-up, Vanessa Kirby (Sue) was the second shown after Thor and they ended with Pedro Pascal (Reed) right before Robert Downey Jr. It's like, how much do they have to make it clear he's Dr. Doom through and through for it to sink in?

And I really think my suggested scene earlier will play out in a similar way. Just to make it clear to those of you in denial that RDJ is returning for good as Tony. They want the name of RDJ, they got him, they don't need him playing Tony, as Dr. Doom is a big fucking deal whether you like it or not.

And he's coming. Whether you like it or not. There will be no redemption. No easy way out.

Dread it. Run from it. Doom arrives all the same.

 

[jason10mm]

Like I said to manabyte....we'll see. This thread will be fun to revisit in 3-4 years when its all wrapped up.

 

[GateofD]

gonna be a cameofest, but as a continuation, gonna be so sloppy.
all the setup that was suppose to be for Kang got cancelled, and they're just gonna pretend it was Doom all along.

 

[KyoZz]

J jason10mm Stop arguing my friend, this guy is crazy

 

[Doom85]

J jason10mm Stop arguing my friend, this guy is crazy

Typical indication one has no argument: resorting to nothing but an insult and running away like a true hero.

 

[KyoZz]

Typical indication one has no argument: resorting to nothing but an insult and running away like a true hero.

Dude I'm just too lazy to keep arguing with you, you have your views and I have mine.

Call that a victory if it makes you happy

 

[Doom85]

Dude I'm just too lazy to keep arguing with you, you have your views and I have mine.

But I was arguing with jason here, not you. Why did you feel the need to insult me when I wasn't even talking to you? It would be one thing if I was insulting jason, I'm not, I think he's very wrong about a lot of things, but that doesn't make him less of a person. I don't know shit about some other IPs out there, no biggie. If some of you all were to argue with me about Star Trek, I'd concede like immediately, I've seen like six of the films and like a dozen episodes of the entire franchise.

If jason is sick of me or something, he could say something. But he didn't say that, he just seemed content to see how it will play out in 2026/2027. I was just trying to make him see my point of view because I feel he's too over focused on RDJ having played Tony, I'm not trying to harass him or something. Again, if he felt that way, he could tell me so or just stop responding to me.

 

[KyoZz]

But I was arguing with jason here, not you. Why did you feel the need to insult me when I wasn't even talking to you? It would be one thing if I was insulting jason, I'm not, I think he's very wrong about a lot of things, but that doesn't make him less of a person. I don't know shit about some other IPs out there, no biggie. If some of you all were to argue with me about Star Trek, I'd concede like immediately, I've seen like six of the films and like a dozen episodes of the entire franchise.

If jason is sick of me or something, he could say something. But he didn't say that, he just seemed content to see how it will play out in 2026/2027. I was just trying to make him see my point of view because I feel he's too over focused on RDJ having played Tony, I'm not trying to harass him or something. Again, if he felt that way, he could tell me so or just stop responding to me.

 

[Doom85]

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Like I said to manabyte....we'll see. This thread will be fun to revisit in 3-4 years when its all wrapped up.

Oh, I see ManaByte was banned? Why?

The audience WANTS Tony back. Clear as fucking day. Doom meets Tony's daughter, pepper says some silly shit, Doom gets that twinkle in his eye, delivers a sarcastic quip, BOOM mic drop STARK IS BACK BABY!

Yeah, people want to see Tony Stark back just for those moments. I am still wondering if Marvel will be able to escape the old cast of characters - or it will be forever the same set of Thor, Captain, Iron Man, Hulk, Spider Man (special case) etc. Granted RDJ elevated Iron Man to a top-tier character. I mean even Falcon does not land as much as the OG Captain was.

 

[jason10mm]

Oh, I see ManaByte was banned? Why?


Yeah, people want to see Tony Stark back just for those moments. I am still wondering if Marvel will be able to escape the old cast of characters - or it will be forever the same set of Thor, Captain, Iron Man, Hulk, Spider Man (special case) etc. Granted RDJ elevated Iron Man to a top-tier character. I mean even Falcon does not land as much as the OG Captain was.

"old" marvel/MCU had real talent, behind the camera and in front of it. They took risks on problematic actors (like RDJ) and on new actors who were clearly RIGHT for their roles. They also had real directors, not these 'auteur' pushovers that can be fed to the machine for PR points. They knew their audience and catered to it. They could separate the comic book stuff from threads that build an emotional resonance with a FILM audience.

Now they are just lost. They abandoned their core, the casting is terrible, the scripts are preachy, the heroes muddled and bland. They are resorting to stunt casting trying to chase ANY success.

I don't know that the Russos are really the ones to pull them out of the funk, we'll see.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

"old" marvel/MCU had real talent, behind the camera and in front of it. They took risks on problematic actors (like RDJ) and on new actors who were clearly RIGHT for their roles. They also had real directors, not these 'auteur' pushovers that can be fed to the machine for PR points. They knew their audience and catered to it. They could separate the comic book stuff from threads that build an emotional resonance with a FILM audience.

Now they are just lost. They abandoned their core, the casting is terrible, the scripts are preachy, the heroes muddled and bland. They are resorting to stunt casting trying to chase ANY success.

Well the first MCU movies felt like good action movies by themselves indeed.

Well to be fair, a lot of new heroes are not fleshed out at all - they are either relatively new or have a chunk of development in TV series (that people did not watch if they were subscribed to Netflix for example). People can write long posts on how everything is built and connect in comics and stuff, but how many people did read the comics of characters outside of the biggest ones?