Fiercedeity
Banned
Lol man's turning his back on sprites next thing you know it'll be 1080p the horror.
Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
Lol man's turning his back on sprites next thing you know it'll be 1080p the horror.
Strider is the perfect example of terrible 2.5d is! I mean it's very very mediocre. Very much, just okay, at best. In my eyes, its actually quite terrible. Thats how it almost always ends up in 2.5d.
Strider also looks kinda crap. But worse, it just moves horribly compared to its 2d counterparts. I just read an article about how 3d tries to mimic 2d, but they can never get it quite right, but Strider isn't really even trying.
R_thanatos
Member
Now you're making me expect a video before the end of the kickstarter when i shouldn't !
Finale Fireworker
Member
It's funny comparing SK's stretch goals to Bloodstained's.
200k for 3 new single-player campaigns with playable boss knights, a challenge mode, and a multiplayer battle arena.
Meanwhile, in IGA-land, 250k for cheat codes.
Whoa. I played Shovel Knight a year ago, well after the KS, and I have never seen these goals before. What happened to stuff like gender swap mode? And the physical edition?
It's coming, I guess.
It's funny comparing SK's stretch goals to Bloodstained's.
200k for 3 new single-player campaigns with playable boss knights, a challenge mode, and a multiplayer battle arena with every boss being playable.
Meanwhile, in IGA-land, 150k for cheat codes.
Those SK stretch goals are still not available, many months after release. I'm sure they needed the funds from actual sales to fund those.
zeopower6
Member
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah you don't want to over promise on things, but it's nice that the SK guys are still working on putting out that content.
Finale Fireworker
Member
I just bought Shovel Knight on my Vita (#BetterOnVita), and now I know to wait for gender swap mode to play it. Damn. I can't wait for that.
Fiercedeity
Banned
It's funny comparing SK's stretch goals to Bloodstained's.
145k for 3 new single-player campaigns with playable boss knights, a challenge mode, and a multiplayer battle arena with every boss being playable.
Meanwhile, in IGA-land, 150k for cheat codes.
I haven't played shovel knight but what are you counting as new single player campaigns in there? I would not count new game + as a new campaign personally.
It's funny comparing SK's stretch goals to Bloodstained's.
145k for 3 new single-player campaigns with playable boss knights, a challenge mode, and a multiplayer battle arena with every boss being playable.
Meanwhile, in IGA-land, 150k for cheat codes.
Meanwhile, in Shovel Knight-land, none of those single-player campaigns, challenge mode, or multiplayer battle arena have been delivered yet.
Clearly they aren't simple palette swaps that only cost $10K to deliver.
You made the opposite point that you meant to make.
His rep is just an old game. Didn't he make a crappy 3d castlevania? The dudes rep was fine after that. The old castlevania will always exist. And hes been working all this time hasn't he? Not making quality games anymore anyway, so what difference will it make to this rep?
I mean its just a quick cash in. I know the reasons why it cannot be done in spires, but even with that kind of money it can't? How much money would it take? The art might take a year, but he just got 1.6 million dollars. If this wasn't a quick boring cash in, he would do what is right.
You keep fucking saying it's a quick cash-in, when the game won't be delivered until 2017.
Every time someone says "150k for cheat codes?!" God kills a puppy or kitten. Why do so many people in here hate puppies and kittens?
Also, with regards to Shovel Knight, it seems clear that said game would be cheaper to produce overall and most of those stretch goals have yet to be released since the team is still working on them (being the good people Yacht Club are, they made clear that would be the case before the Kickstater ended and the extra content is free as far as I now).
Also LOL at Bluefoot, just.....LOL
Also, with regards to Shovel Knight, it seems clear that said game would be cheaper to produce overall and most of those stretch goals have yet to be released since the team is still working on them (being the good people Yacht Club are, they made clear that would be the case before the Kickstater ended and the extra content is free as far as I now).
Also LOL at Bluefoot, just.....LOL
Sevyne
Member
Those playable boss knight goals are for new campaigns for Plague Knight, King Knight, and Specter Knight. Of course they'll be shorter than the main campaign though, but still.
Still not sure why people are comparing stretch goals between these games though.
Red Arremer
Member
You have to understand the differences here, though.
Shovel Knight, as fantastically awesome the game turned out to be, was a much bigger gamble than Bloodstained is. And here's the reason: Shovel Knight was the first game from a developer who had just formed, and it had a lot of potential of turning out bad. Additionally, the team at YCG is small, and the amount of resources required for a retro-look game is also lower. Plus of course, most of the stretch goals haven't been delivered yet, they're still working on the very first substantial content upgrade (the first boss campaign).
Bloodstained is a game developed by a bigger team that's already done plenty of games (Inti Creates), a project led by one of the better known names in the industry (Koji Igarashi), and they also are going to make a game that the gaming community has been drooling for for years, which also is going to be a lot bigger game than Shovel Knight. And I imagine most if not all stretch goal items will be available at release.
Fiercedeity
Banned
Oh OK I took those to mean you could just play as those characters, so they're new levels then?
Finale Fireworker
Member
I hope you are not actually very old or ill because this made me laugh very hard.
Sevyne
Member
Not 100% sure, but probably more like remixed levels or something. Don't take my word for it though. I'm simply just making an assumption here. I do know they will all play very differently though, and have their own little stories. Still looking forward to it though.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well if you didn't already know what a great guy Iga actually is, you can read this:
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/5/11/8576141/koji-igarashi-day-in-the-life
Every now and then Polygon publishes something really amazing. It's kind of hard to read this and not root for Iga and his game.
Plague Knight mode is coming soon, within the month I think, challenge mode will be released jointly with it. Dunno 'bout the rest, but I'm sure it's coming.
Plague Knight plays completely different from Shovel Knight and comes with new and remixed levels. I didn't count NG+ as part of the 145k figure.
The only point I was making is that Bloodstained's stretch goal figures and the stretch goals themselves seem to have been picked at random with barely a thought put behind them. Just like the rest of the kickstarter. Then there's stuff like putting co-op as a stretch goal despite being mentioned specifically in the pitch video.
It's almost like you're not paying attention to any of the information in the kickstarter.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I don't really think he is paying attention to much of anything that doesn't support his point really.
Red Arremer
Member
The new characters will have entirely different base mechanics to Shovel Knight (the character, not the game
), and from what I understand, these new campaigns will reuse the assets of the main game, but will have new level design and at least one new boss to inhabit the stage that was originally that respective boss'.His rep is not an old game, his rep is an entire series of games, and a genre he helped create. The term "Metroidvania" wouldn't exist without Iga's work on Symphony of the Night and the 2D Castlevania games that came after it. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here.
And I think you heavily underestimate how much money it takes to create a game, especially one that has a pretty big scale such as this, what with paying wages and whatnot. 1.6 millions dollars is pissing in the wind. They couldn't even pay a fraction of the art required for an ambitious project like this with 1.6 million bucks, let alone the coders, designers, composers, voice actors, etc.
Plague Knight mode is coming soon, within the month I think, challenge mode will be released jointly with it. Dunno 'bout the rest, but I'm sure it's coming.
Plague Knight plays completely different from Shovel Knight and comes with new and remixed levels. I didn't count NG+ as part of the 145k figure.
The only point I was making is that Bloodstained's stretch goal figures and the stretch goals themselves seem to have been picked at random with barely a thought put behind them. Just like the rest of the kickstarter. Then there's stuff like putting co-op as a stretch goal despite being mentioned specifically in the pitch video.
No, that's not the only point you were making. You specifically mentioned "Cheat codes for 150k", which stands to reason that you actually think Shovel Knight's stretch goals are representative of the cost to develop them.
They are not. The fact that not even one major bonus feature is ready almost a year after release proves that the numbers are completely unrealistic, or the scope of the bonus features changed over time.
BOTH go against the point you were trying to make. You *directly* compared $145k for a bevy of extra features to $150k for cheat codes.
BassForever
Member
It's funny comparing SK's stretch goals to Bloodstained's.
145k for 3 new single-player campaigns with playable boss knights, a challenge mode, and a multiplayer battle arena with every boss being playable.
Meanwhile, in IGA-land, 150k for cheat codes.
Yeah, and 90% of those aren't in the game yet a year later and just the base game alone they barely had enough funds to finish it. Bloodstained is clearly playing it safe with these stretchgoals to not over promise features he can't deliver day 1
SixMachine
Member
I know people scoff at cheat codes being a stretch goal but if the cheat codes are anything like Iga's other games, it would be damn well worth it to be a stretch goal. They basically were another playthrough for different playstyles and characters, such as Richter mode, Axe Armor, and all the various playstyles in Circle of the Moon. If they increase replayability as much as the other Castlevanias, it's worth more than David Hayter imo.
Red Arremer
Member
I would suggest you check the information again.
The stretch goal is LOCAL co-op. And since the pitch video mentioned co-op specifically... what conclusion would you draw? I'll give you a hint - it has to do with the internet.
BassForever
Member
Red Arremer
Member
Iga is a hack fraud scamming people for money
BassForever pls, don't do this to me. The people who actually believe this and post in here about it are enough.
Totally forgot about that. Good point.
Well you know what, YG bit more than they could chew, but I find those numbers more realistic than what is going on in Bloodstained's kickstarter. People excuse it by thinking that everyone inflates stretch goals in such a ridiculous manner, but they really don't. Project Eternity's stretch goals were also much more sensibly established.
I'm amazed people hold Iga to such high regard. Looking at his resume, he's always been the producer of his so-called fame to claim, except SotN. He's the guy who schedules and looks over the staff and budgets. Sure, he has some influence on the design and comes up with the general premise, but he isn't the lead designer or anything.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, this thread has become toxic as fuck. See ya at the end of the KS.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Pretty fucked up that Igarashi is kidnapping children and selling them for meat just to fund this game, which itself is merely a fund to embezzle money out of to feed his pachinko addiction.
Really makes you think. Kickstarter is a scam.
Really makes you think. Kickstarter is a scam.
Lol what
2D castlevanis games are awesome. Sure, he never nailed the 3D games, but his 2D games are a bliss
charlequin
Banned
Bloodstained's stretch goals are picked to a) drive more, faster pledges (which they have been exceptionally successful at) and b) to fully cover their own cost so they can be delivered within the Kickstarter budget. With all due love to the Shovel Knight guys, I still think this is a much more respectful approach than underpriced stretch goals that lean on post-release sales just to exist.
My point is he's only been the producer of said games. It's like crediting the 3D Zelda games past Majora's Mask to Aonuma.
When the comparison you originally made differs from the one you followed up with by an order of magnitude, I don't think you have a leg to stand on.
Petit Melon
Member
So realistic they were in the game at launch. //eyeroll//
Complaining about cheat codes outs you as someone who's never played the 'vanias.
Red Arremer
Member
He wasn't only producer, he also was writer and designer (presumably lead designer) in all of his produced titles.
cj_iwakura
Member
Here's what I think should be drawing more attention, which both explains all the extra cost and should be of some concern as to where this money is going.
There is a lot of manpower at work here. People whose job it is to get the word out. Hence all the social media tie-ins in those 'achievements'; tumblr, facebook, etc.
How much of this money will be going to all those people instead of to the game?
That's what marketing is. People get paid for the job, just like every other job.
If the return on it is above that cost, this is completely irrelevant for both backers and the devs. In fact, it should make us all happy that it exists.
I fail to see how this should be concerning.
Fiercedeity
Banned
The new characters will have entirely different base mechanics to Shovel Knight (the character, not the game
His rep is not an old game, his rep is an entire series of games, and a genre he helped create. The term "
Eh I wouldn't really count that as a new campaign entirely. Getting to play as a new character is nice but doesn't do much for me as it sounds like it's still largely the same game anyways.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Shovel Knight's great and all, but it's worth noting that they actually ran out of funds about 5 months before the game came out AND they're still working on fulfilling all the stretch goals (which isn't dishonest on their part; they were very clear that most of the stuff would be post-initial release). If anything their stretch goals are a cautionary example of what not to do.