LamerDeluxe
Member
Handling video on the prototype track is up, looks pretty good, maybe less floaty than some of the WipEout games.
Formula Fusion (futuristic racer by former Wipeout devs) Kickstarter is up
- Thread starter VLiberty
- Start date
LamerDeluxe
Member
Maybe pledges will pick up once the alpha version is out, but at the moment I don't see them reaching the 100.000 for the console versions.
Frustrating isn't it, to see one Kickstarter for a now mostly forgotten genre do gangbusters (Yookah-Layle, Mighty No. 9) while another like this one is struggling to really get going.
Part of me thinks it's not really the quality of the campaign / game shown or even the level of interest in such a revival that's the cause. It might simply be the result of one campaign being picked up by the right media outlets or gaming personalities while the other isn't - which sometimes might be a matter of dumb luck.
(Though another part of me feels it might actually be reflecting the relative lower level of interest in the pedigree behind this game - or Wipeout in this case...)
It can suck though, especially if you're hoping to play said game on consoles in this case. Let's hope it picks up some more!
Fair enough - that is a legitimate point of view that developers would be smart to take into account when playing the "Kickstarter game" with their proposed project so to speak.
They updated their kickstarter a bit I think.
Didn't notice this before:
https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.n...167ea6abf16a5862e351308949f8ff9_h264_high.mp4
Looks decent but the effect for the speed pad is not on.
Didn't notice this before:
https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.n...167ea6abf16a5862e351308949f8ff9_h264_high.mp4
Looks decent but the effect for the speed pad is not on.
Actually I think this just shines a light on the truth.
Wipeout is not popular, Wipeout does not sell. Sony kept funding the games because they are fantastic games, but every entry kept selling less until the 2nd PSP one/Vita one sold peanuts. I remember the 2nd PSP one selling like <1k copies first month or something, it was crazy.
This is probably the reason why F-Zero is dead too. While these games are amazing, for whatever reason futuristic high speed racing games just do not sell and there is no audience.
Kickstarters are for showing that there is an audience for a certain type of game that Publishers won't fund. This Kickstarter is just ringing true the facts we've seen in the past with the decline of Wipeout's sales, there isn't an audience
Well for once, the future racing genre has never been as popular as the (3d) platformer genre, even less so in the last 10 years where we basically only had a few Wipeout games.
The other thing is that all recent attempts at doing a future racer have been by small indie studios on small budgets. The sad result result is that basically of them don't look all that compelling compared to 5-15 year old games like F-Zero GX/Wipeout HD. At least I haven't seen anything that has made me 'wow' and ticked the right boxes (admittedly I've never been the biggest fan of the floaty way Wipeout handles but the visual design has always been crazy good, and good enough to draw me in).
All I want is future racing with technology made in 2015 in crazy scify environments/tracks with the right amount of speed and a decent soundtrack.
Yeah it does. The effect is weird and off putting and the actual speed boost is too much.
Might sound like a weird nitpick but something I really didn't like about the up to date WipEout is that the speed strips are more or less crucial to achieving fast times and the boost is overpowered and far too short lived. I'm going right back here but the first two WipEouts had speed boosts that gave you a nice little bump in speed and made you feel like you were building up in speed the more of them you successfully hit. Often it was wise to not go near them for fear of smashing into the outside of the next turn. But you could choose to use them or not. The recent games feature the speed boost as an essential to getting anywhere and lacked any satisfaction, as a couple of seconds after you got the speed increase, you felt dragged back to your normal speed anyway. It lacked the smoothness and subtlety of the original couple of games (I never played any other WipeOuts until the PS3 one and Vita game).
Also in this video the handling seems almost Scalectrix like, like you're stuck onto the ground. Basically I don't think aWipEout game has surpassed the feeling of WipEout 2097 and this still doesn't look right! I'm hard to please.
Also in this video the handling seems almost Scalectrix like, like you're stuck onto the ground. Basically I don't think aWipEout game has surpassed the feeling of WipEout 2097 and this still doesn't look right! I'm hard to please.
The lastest updates mention that they have reworked their spring system and they plan to show that off soon (like this week).
Wow. I hope that's *really* early gameplay because that's not anything remotely resembling the Wipeout 2097 style handling they say they're aiming for.
chrominance
Member
Yeah it does. The effect is weird and off putting and the actual speed boost is too much.
Might sound like a weird nitpick but something I really didn't like about the up to date WipEout is that the speed strips are more or less crucial to achieving fast times and the boost is overpowered and far too short lived. I'm going right back here but the first two WipEouts had speed boosts that gave you a nice little bump in speed and made you feel like you were building up in speed the more of them you successfully hit. Often it was wise to not go near them for fear of smashing into the outside of the next turn. But you could choose to use them or not. The recent games feature the speed boost as an essential to getting anywhere and lacked any satisfaction, as a couple of seconds after you got the speed increase, you felt dragged back to your normal speed anyway. It lacked the smoothness and subtlety of the original couple of games (I never played any other WipeOuts until the PS3 one and Vita game).
Also in this video the handling seems almost Scalectrix like, like you're stuck onto the ground. Basically I don't think aWipEout game has surpassed the feeling of WipEout 2097 and this still doesn't look right! I'm hard to please.
I agree with these points--speed pads should feel like you're getting a cumulative effect from hitting them in a continuous string. I will say, though, that Wipeout HD did give me that feeling, and maybe for me it's more a psychological thing.
Also, yeah, the craft is way too glued to the track. As someone who grew up on the original Wipeout, even XL/2097 might not be floaty enough for me, though it's been a long time since I've played the first game so I might not know what I'm talking about. To me, it's not a Wipeout game if using the airbrakes doesn't have a non-trivial chance of kicking your back end straight into a wall.
They're probably quite good at it so it's quite tight but no it doesn't look too floaty, or enough - looking forward to the new update though.
It still looks more modern, which I don't really mind to be honest. I'd like to see it a bit more floaty but I'm not sure about going all the way back. Maybe as a separate mode, that'd be awesome.
It still looks more modern, which I don't really mind to be honest. I'd like to see it a bit more floaty but I'm not sure about going all the way back. Maybe as a separate mode, that'd be awesome.
Nakkilokki
Banned
I have never kickstarted this fast before!
TheOctagon
Member
My problem with this is that the designs and tone throughout that Kickstarter page smack much more of Wipeout's imitators than they do Wipeout itself. The language is imprecise, the ships inelegant, and the world and materials as bleak and shiny as an Unreal Engine tech demo. Was Wipeout ever like that, at any point of development? Where's the panache?
It feels awful saying it, but this is like the creepy zombie making me wish my favourite franchise could die with dignity.
It feels awful saying it, but this is like the creepy zombie making me wish my favourite franchise could die with dignity.
I just think this particular Kickstarter was just mismanaged. I mean Bloodstained is in a genre that has done about as well as the futuristic racing genre, but you could tell IGA and his crew were promoting it even before the Kickstarter launched. IGA was building up hype for Bloodstained even before the Kickstarter appeared. This just appeared one day and looked particularly mismanaged. Inafune, IGA, and Playtonics all looked to have a development plan in place. This particular developer does not.
Looks even tighter than XL which I wasn't expecting.
I'm still not hip on ship designs which is sad because half of why I like Wipeout is aesthetics. Maybe they'll have a polygon mode and have some hidden low poly lookalikes
There is something I do not get about this kickstarter.
Right now the minimun goal is achieved, but now if I pledge 20£ for the console game backer pack in order to get the digital copy of the PS4 version but the console stretch goal £100k is not reached (as unfortunately it is looking like to happen), what do I end up with?
Right now the minimun goal is achieved, but now if I pledge 20£ for the console game backer pack in order to get the digital copy of the PS4 version but the console stretch goal £100k is not reached (as unfortunately it is looking like to happen), what do I end up with?
TheOctagon
Member
Some questions for Andrew Walker, as he seems to be active in the forum:
1) Can we get a list of the 'ex-Wipeout devs' we've read so much about, the games they worked on in the series, and the extent of that involvement? This was made abundantly clear by the Yooka-Laylee team in their KS, but is a mystery with this game.
2) Do you have any more compelling evidence of The Designer's Republic being involved? Concept art, for example? Little has been seen of the company since it lost most of its staff in 2009.
3) Do we have your assurance that students at Teeside University aren't involved in this project - or, if they are, that they're being properly compensated for their time?
Sorry about the probing nature of these, but I feel very strongly about Wipeout, its legacy and its fans, and the prospect of those being exploited in some fashion disturbs me. A spiritual successor made by a team of genuine Liverpool/Psygnosis alumni is something I'd love to support, but when the KS campaign is so vague in its goals and off-key in its design, I'm far from that point at the moment.
Thanks.
1) Can we get a list of the 'ex-Wipeout devs' we've read so much about, the games they worked on in the series, and the extent of that involvement? This was made abundantly clear by the Yooka-Laylee team in their KS, but is a mystery with this game.
2) Do you have any more compelling evidence of The Designer's Republic being involved? Concept art, for example? Little has been seen of the company since it lost most of its staff in 2009.
3) Do we have your assurance that students at Teeside University aren't involved in this project - or, if they are, that they're being properly compensated for their time?
Sorry about the probing nature of these, but I feel very strongly about Wipeout, its legacy and its fans, and the prospect of those being exploited in some fashion disturbs me. A spiritual successor made by a team of genuine Liverpool/Psygnosis alumni is something I'd love to support, but when the KS campaign is so vague in its goals and off-key in its design, I'm far from that point at the moment.
Thanks.
eso76
Member
Well, for me the problem with these "spiritual successors" being kickstarted these days is they look more like reskins / conservative remakes of the originals than proper sequels.
I was really excited to see what a modern futuristic racer conceived in 2015 would look like, it's a game i keep "designing" and playing in my head.
When i imagine a new WipeOut, i imagine a game that is capable of wowing me the way the original did at release, in today's market. Not just WipeOut with marginally updated graphics, but a game that is as spectacular and thrilling as WipeOut was, while also being in line with modern racers in terms of depth and content.
Too often the industry mistakes poor reception for lack of interest in a specific genre.
I don't think gamers are that simple. In most cases, it's the games fault (futuristic racers in particular but the same can be said about arcade racers, fighters etc) failing to keep up to date with the industry and people expectations, and settling for reiterating the basic formula, offering more of the same, only catering to the same, small and ever narrowing niche, eventually becoming irrelevant.
From what i've seen, Yookah-Layle is the same. I was expecting something more than BK with different characters and the same structure. These games will probably be enough for die hard fans who have been starving for something to play, but will never re-ignite the demand for more.
HAVING SAID THAT, i think this particular KS struggling is mostly a "marketing" issue. IGA had his simple browser game, which spread through twitter and facebook. Y-L was even featured on Edge. This just received little publicity.
TheOctagon
Member
That just looks like a lot of tDR archive stuff and a new logo. It was poor wording on my part to ask if they were involved - obviously they are. What I'm looking for is some evidence that they're contributing fresh new ideas to the game, as the designs apparent in the KS campaign are old ones like the angryman.
All I've seen from them so far is a logo. The only designs on the ships themselves appear to be real-life corporate sponsors. Hence me asking if there was something more substantial.
All I've seen from them so far is a logo. The only designs on the ships themselves appear to be real-life corporate sponsors. Hence me asking if there was something more substantial.
brooklyniteOne
Member
Huge wipeout fan here. Yeah i agree with many of the points made here. The kickstarter doesnt seem well put together. Not enough about the original team and their roles on this project. The design or overall aestetic is ok but doesnt seem to quite have nailed it and it does seem more like a wipeout knock off than a evolution or unique take on the series from a design perspective. Ship customizations doesnt seem like a direction that interests me. Just seems like that approach would make balancing the game more difficult for the devs and more confusing for me to sort through all the options as a player. Racing feel, the track design, the amount of tracks, and multiplayer are things that interest me as a fan of the series. I really want this to happen and be great but im not exactly as excited as i should be as a fan based on what i see thus far.
GoldenCrow
Member
That is most likely all they have done. They aren't going to do the job for free and I'm assuming that fee is going to come from kickstarter. As tDR is a small studio work is going to be focused on paying jobs and real work wont begin until it is assured the job is going ahead.
TheOctagon
Member
I do understand that, and to be fair to the new tDR, it's not their input I'm hugely concerned by. Putting aside the usual KS ones about impropriety in fundraising and labour, my underlying concern is that this project seems to fundamentally lack the creative verve that gave Wipeout a reason to go on existing. People like to talk about how the later Wipeouts lost their direction and may or may not have mismanaged, but they were still bright, bold, visionary games. You could bundle the PS3 and Vita Wipeouts into an HD blowout for PS4 and happily put the series to rest, imo.
The games media is dutifully calling this a game made by 'ex-Wipeout devs' as though it's some dream spiritual successor freed of the shackles of Sony. I don't buy it. A game from the creative minds behind Wipeout shouldn't need to be told its vehicles look wrong for them to be drastically redesigned. It probably shouldn't have tracks called 'Urban', 'Skyscraper' and 'Main Stadium' either. Wipeout wouldn't have been seen dead looking so un-cool, and I don't see the humble origins of a Kickstarter as an excuse.
What would have got me backing this would have been something closer in concept and tone to FAST Racing NEO, maybe, that didn't rely so enormously on the achievements of people who probably aren't involved in this project at all. When 'FROM DEVELOPERS THAT BROUGHT YOU WIPEOUT' is the opening of your trailer, your next step is to tell me who you are and why you deserve to make that connection - because, let's face it, they're being given a shitload of cash because of it. Nothing about this KS tells me the people who 'brought you' Wipeout have a hand it, and I'd like nothing more than to be corrected.
EDIT: Okay, so this:
The track development team:
Mat Garey - Stanza Inter and Hi Fumi
Nick Phillips - Manor Top and Mega Mall
Andrew Walker - Sampa Run, Terminal, Wip3out Special Edition, and the Japanese edition prototype tracks
Unless I overlooked it, that should probably be on the KS page.
I'm guessing the fact that it's Unreal Engine 4 would explain why it looks more Unreal than Wipeout at the moment.
I also take back what I said about the ships because if these are the controversial 'F1' designs, I'm liking them more than what we've got now. You could put the images and info from the 2014 website into the KS page and have a much stronger pitch, albeit one with no greater guarantee of hitting its targets.
The games media is dutifully calling this a game made by 'ex-Wipeout devs' as though it's some dream spiritual successor freed of the shackles of Sony. I don't buy it. A game from the creative minds behind Wipeout shouldn't need to be told its vehicles look wrong for them to be drastically redesigned. It probably shouldn't have tracks called 'Urban', 'Skyscraper' and 'Main Stadium' either. Wipeout wouldn't have been seen dead looking so un-cool, and I don't see the humble origins of a Kickstarter as an excuse.
What would have got me backing this would have been something closer in concept and tone to FAST Racing NEO, maybe, that didn't rely so enormously on the achievements of people who probably aren't involved in this project at all. When 'FROM DEVELOPERS THAT BROUGHT YOU WIPEOUT' is the opening of your trailer, your next step is to tell me who you are and why you deserve to make that connection - because, let's face it, they're being given a shitload of cash because of it. Nothing about this KS tells me the people who 'brought you' Wipeout have a hand it, and I'd like nothing more than to be corrected.
EDIT: Okay, so this:
The track development team:
Mat Garey - Stanza Inter and Hi Fumi
Nick Phillips - Manor Top and Mega Mall
Andrew Walker - Sampa Run, Terminal, Wip3out Special Edition, and the Japanese edition prototype tracks
Unless I overlooked it, that should probably be on the KS page.
I'm guessing the fact that it's Unreal Engine 4 would explain why it looks more Unreal than Wipeout at the moment.
I also take back what I said about the ships because if these are the controversial 'F1' designs, I'm liking them more than what we've got now. You could put the images and info from the 2014 website into the KS page and have a much stronger pitch, albeit one with no greater guarantee of hitting its targets.
They should allure the F-Zero fans too, I'd be happy to support this project if they add a Wii U stretch goal, I know some other people would do the same.
LamerDeluxe
Member
I don't like the F1 car designs at all, they look like mutated racing cars that cannot bank and the open cockpit makes no sense.
60EffPeeEss
Member
PCGamer just done some coverage of the latest footage, so hopefully that gets it some attention.
yurinka
Member
They just announced the backer skin, and seems to have Neogaf colors
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-game/posts/1233907?ref=backer_project_update
(can't link the image, sorry)
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-game/posts/1233907?ref=backer_project_update
(can't link the image, sorry)
wind_steaker
Member
This needs to be picked up by the media more! I just found it on Eurogamer and immediately pledged. Anything to get a decent AG racing series going again.
Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained stole whatever hype this game could have garnered, not that it had much. You're now witnessing firsthand how little people care about futuristic racers
Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained stole whatever hype this game could have garnered, not that it had much. You're now witnessing firsthand how little people care about futuristic racers
Well I would think that with a better campaign and a much much better prototype to show of the game (one that wow's people) chances are that more people would be interested. Obviously you'll never Yooka/Bloodstained regions as the genre has never been THAT popular.
I have my personal vision of a future racer stuck in my head for years now, and if I would go to Kickstarter (which I never would) this is certainly not how I would have ran my campaign.
No doubt, they made a lo of mistakes during this campaign.
openrob
Member
I really think this is to do with the handling of the kick starter. If you were looking to ask for 100k you would really need a good marketing push.
Yooka Laylee built up interest to the run up to the kickstarter, teaser images, tweets, stuff that was picked up and discussed by media and forums. The thing went live and had clear stretch goals, affordable and understandable backer rewards/tiers. It looked professional.
Formula fusion has more people asking questions about the kick starter than the game. That stuff should be communicated so smoothly that it isn't a hurdle for potential backers.
How it is now, it doesn't feel professional. I know they are devs and not marketers, but they don't help themselves.
Terbinator
Member
If there was it would get by on it's own accord. Both Wipeout and F-Zero haven't been revived due to lack of demand shown when it comes to sales.
I really wonder if they ever tested their Kickstarter before they went live, really it's one of the most confusing Kickstarters I've seen so far and it's baffling to me how you can try get your game funded with this. It's also not rocket science, a simple look at like 5-10 successful campaigns and could have improved the whole thing a lot.
Looking at what failed would have helped as well, both post and pre KS.
I'm going to start a kickstarter for kickstarters. Raise money to help other kickstarters produce better kickstarter campaigns, for those ideas that are great, but the creators don't have any marketing awareness.
Compsiox
Banned
So close. I was thinking of kickstarting the spiritual successor to kickstarter on kickstarter.
UnluckyKate
Member
let's hope it gets on steam and gets momentum and have Shu/Larry or someone else help them port whatever finished product they can come with on console
LamerDeluxe
Member
If I understand correctly, they are going to make the console versions anyway, just the time it will take is unknown if the goal isn't met.
They were even thinking about making the Vita version anyway, because they already have experience with down-porting.