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[Deified Data]

Arguments on how much the source material should be changed aside (that really is an entirely different discussion), I think depictions of rape absolutely have a place in a gritty low-fantasy setting. Westeros is a horrible place. I understand why people are upset, but I'd advise them to be more careful about potentially triggering media in the future as opposed to asking the showrunners to be more gentle with their characters.

 

[Blader]

So the rape is worse here because it involves a main character and not a side character? lol, ok.

The problem isn't that the character was a bad guy who raped her. It's that the show runners decided to put Sansa in that situation in the first place. They inserted rape into the storyline again and, from what we can see so far, it didn't even do anything in the story and ignored a characters multi season arc.

How can you say it doesn't do anything for the story when it's literally the last thing that happens in the episode? You can't say what consequences Ramsay raping Sansa has for the story or not when there hasn't been a single frame of story to follow it yet.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

That didn't happen in the books, place the blame on D&D for being shit showrunners who rely so much on excesses that this stuff feels exploitative. Nor do they have much benefit of the doubt after purposely editing a scene into a rape scene last season (once again, one that didn't occur in the books).

This season just might kill the show lol.

It's why I stopped watching tbh. People kept telling me to watch so I did up until Season 4 but I felt that it became less and less about plot and politics and more and more about "how can we shock the audience next?"

Obviously this is partly responsible for it's raging popularity but it just wasn't for me. Also the treatment of female characters is lol.

 

[Palette Swap]

We have a very different relationship to violence culturally than we do to sexual assault. There's a whole host of things, but probably the big one is that as a culture we're a lot better at dealing with victims of violence then we are at dealing with victims of sexual assault (well unless they're black)

Also, there's an institutionalized context where violence (or its threat) can be seen as a means to achieve desirable results or to protect while there's really no equivalent for sexual assault. This makes the former morally ambiguous when the latter isn't.

 

[Hex]

Jesus the defence of this is terrible. Not entirely shocking but damn.

It is fiction.
You will not like all fiction.
That does not mean that it should not exist.

Also again the hypocricy where murder is ok, maiming is ok, someone being completely broken and having their cock cut off is ok, pregnant women murdered, people being burned alive and executed and maimed is ok but a rape is to be outraged? What did people think was happening to all of those wildling women in the house having the babies?
Something is wrong there.

 

[bengraven]

The real problem with the scene was the way it turned Sansa into a victim again right after her character arc had brought her to a place of greater strength and agency. Bad storytelling. Regressive character development. This show is growing consistently worse as an adaptation.

I think we'll find out whether you're right or wrong in the future - we don't know that she hasn't changed. Her reactions to this are important.

 

[munchie64]

Nobody likes Cersei

Edit- if this outrage forces HBO to follow the source material and stop deviating from the books I can get behind it.

That's the thing though

Spoiler

It's book loyalty that got us this scene in the first place. Automatically replacing Sansa with another character has made the creators have her raped, cause they're doing some stupid half adaptation thing. If they were doing they're own thing entirely (or I suppose following the books exactly) this wouldn't happen.

 

[MHWilliams]

It is fiction.
You will not like all fiction.
That does not mean that it should not exist.

No one said that it shouldn't.

You can however judge the merits of said fiction. Shock.

 

[Future]

They (D&D) showed her get married twice.
The argument "she can use this to grow or continue developing" implies that.
Did she really need this to happen to her to advance her character development? No.
In her first marriage, in the books her only act of defiance was not bowing so that Tyrion could put the veil on her. That was the only thing she was able to do to show her displeasure with the situation. They took that out of the show.
She's well aware that for most of her life she's been a pawn. In fact, it's revealed she doesn't even trust Littlefinger completely. But the show just...ugh.


She had no choice. It was clear she had no choice. Come on. Littlefinger tells her of his plan to marry her off in the books. Not a day before she meets

Spoiler

Harry

She was not afforded that choice in the show. She was not afforded any choice in the show.

Look at her interaction with

Spoiler

Harry in TWOW

. Compare that to Ramsay and please tell me that they've shown a lick of progression for Sansa as compared to in the books.

I'm not sure what the argument though. Are you saying that they didn't have to show this. Of course they didn't! They don't have to do anything. And what they should and shouldn't do is completely subjective

For me, I don't see these events as being lazy or merely for shock value. Sansas marriage history, winterfell, reeks previous character and knowledge of Sansa, the history of Ramsay.... All these make this story arch particularly significant. People may not like seeing rape on TV. But that doesn't mean the depiction of it has no significance

I also think it's the deviation from the book that adds to the shock it's receiving. The show has a tighter group of characters so things are changing to maintain similar events of the book, but using characters the viewer knows of.

 

[Mxrz]

The outrage rings a little hollow given the timing and the material.

Far worse stuff done in the books (far, far worse) and those were known before the very first episode aired. Nary an outrage then. If you're against this sort of stuff being used in tv/books, then Game of Thrones is probably the last series you should get involved in. This has been true since day one, and hardly a secret.

What gives me doubts about the sincerity, there wasn't much outrage when Joffery reacted a scene out of Se7en, or any of the other horrible stuff done on the show. The only two examples we have are the Cersei/Jamie thing last season, and this. Both really mild scenes, and not even close to the worse things we've seen. I think its more that people had built up some lofty expectations around Sansa and now they think she's been 'ruined.'

I thought the cut to Theon was pretty well done. Alfie Allen has become one of the best actors on the show. But then I like the show and the books.

 

[Burt]

Read my posts, my criticisms are from a writing perspective and FAR from damned if they do, damned if they don't

To sum up:

1. The scene neither advances the narrative, nor informs us on the characters involved, making it rather unnecessary, which is likely why so many people find it gratuitous. Even the baby murder scene is about telling you "YES THESE PEOPLE ARE BABY MURDERING KINDS OF EVIL" which you may not have assumed.

The progression of the overarching story relies on Littlefinger putting himself in a situation where regardless of who comes out on top in the coming battle, he will be made ruler of the North. That requires that he put Sansa in Winterfell and marry her to a Bolton in order to frame them as traitors and leave her there so that he could relay that information to Cersei. Expecting Ramsay, easily the most sadistic person we've been introduced to in the entire world of ASOIAF, to not rape Sansa on their wedding night is.. wishful thinking, to say the least. You don't have to provide new information every time you put a character on screen, but you do have to maintain consistency in their characterization.

On a personal level with the characters, we literally aren't a second past the act itself, which means that there's no way you can comment on how it will or won't affect the story down the line.

2. IF they were going to have the scene, they should have at least had the stones to put us in Sansa's shoes instead of Theon's.

Yes, that would've gone over marvelously.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

But you know, even if we do get revenge it's like.. well, wait? Is that what matters to you? What the fuck, what about

Spoiler

Stoneheart?

There's no consistency. It's a lot of strange writing...

I think there's consistency, namely in how weak women are made to look in the show. Aryia was declawed in season two, Yasha was made to be a total joke, Cersi got raped by her brother, the Tyrell women were clueless in the Sparrow scene, Sansa's permanently powerless, then your major spoiler was totally cut.

Some of the males like Jamie aren't treated much better, but the female characters in particular are handled like trash in the show.

 

[Ganzlinger]

The problem is that the rape happened to a character that doesn't exist in the series. But even with that decision to not cast her they decided to bring the rape to another character just to make things interesting as the showrunners admited prior to the episode.

It's basically:

"Hey Dan, that girl is useless to our adaption, forget about her, she doesn't exists!"

"I agree, David. But that rape she suffers.. hmm that would be awesome to have on the show. Imagine the shock value!"

"Yeah! How about this: let's bring the rape to another character who has nothing to do with that scene!"

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Scene pissed me off for reasons different than most people, I think. What pisses me off is that she's the only character on the show who's story has basically stayed the same since season 1. A tool, a victim, a character who seems to exist solely so the world can take a giant shit on her head. 5 seasons of this now. I mean how is that good TV? If you can't think of anything new for her then just be done with it and kill the character off already cause personally I'm getting really tired of watching the shit on Sansa show.

Look at what an emotional response you're having to her character and the shit she goes through. That's the whole point. I don't think I need to tell you that this is building up to Sansa getting her revenge on multiple people, and that's how her character's shitty experiences will be resolved. It'll be very satisfying.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I would argue that rape is horrible, just as horrible as murder. Not more, not less, but just as horrible. Yet, viewers gladly gobble up murder after murder, but balk at this. I think that is more problematic than the depiction of rape.

Some people are saying that the use of rape as a trope here is a cheap shortcut to tug at our emotions. Well, so are all the killings. I think, if anything, there could be a lot more criticism of the series as a whole for constantly using violence of all types for shock value.

The exceptionalism of female rape is sexist and troubling.

 

[ohNOitsRO]

I mean, you came in to post this. How much of your life did that take up?

Now imagine you posted a few tweets to say you were done with GOT. Same amount of effort.

So why are you wasting your energy?

Boredom is my answer, by the by.

It took almost no part of my life you're right but that was just me spending five minutes trying to explain to THOSE people that are clearly spending more than five minutes on this topic that it isn't necessary..

People still outraged a day after? Lol in my opinion that's absurd to waste that energy on a show

I'm not saying "hey you're wasting time on got instead of curing cancer?" I'm saying "really? It's that bothersome that it's STILL a topic of conversation in your head?"

It seems pointless, all this "outrage"

It just feels like a lot of wind is being blown around but there's no boats to catch the breeze

 

[hendersonhank]

The real problem with the scene was the way it turned Sansa into a victim again right after her character arc had brought her to a place of greater strength and agency. Bad storytelling. Regressive character development. This show is growing consistently worse as an adaptation.

Yes obviously good storytelling would be to have her magically be able to have everything go her way after her "awakening". Well now I know I should be a strong player! Therefore I will somehow no longer be subject to the laws/rules/customs of this world!

 

[btrboyev]

I'm more offended about all the story changes that are being done or left out entirely.

 

[vas_a_morir]

This is like the 6th rape on this show. I guess to these monsters, some victims are more 'human' than others. Disgusting.

Hey, people get raped in those days. Hell, in those days, that wouldn't even be considered 'rape,' although still would be regarded as unnatural with Theon watching.

It was also an important scene for Theon. He was a man torn between the demands of family honor, and the love of his real family. It's very clear that Theon still loves Sansa like a little sister and seeing her deflowered in terror is his worst torture yet.

And man, what great acting!

 

[A-V-B]

That's the thing though

Spoiler

It's book loyalty that got us this scene in the first place. Automatically replacing Sansa with another character has made the creators have her raped, cause they're doing some stupid half adaptation thing. If they were doing they're own thing entirely (or I suppose following the books exactly) this wouldn't happen.

Why not? They did this adaptation because the books inspired them to do certain scenes.

Like, they did this whole series so they could do the Red Wedding.

Now they want to depict Ramsay's abusive relationships because that's excited them since Season 2.

Sometimes I think what excites Martin and what excites D&D are two utterly, utterly different things.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I forgot about that, admittedly. Yet even that chapter ends before Theon starts his "task" or Ramsay continues the abuse, nor do you see any other assaults on her on page iirc.

D&D are on record as saying they brought Sansa to Winterfell to make her story more interesting/give the actress something to do/spice things up. And apparently having her raped is apart of that huh. It's pathetic.

It was pretty much put her on ice for the season like Bran, or find something else for her to do. As soon as they made the decision to wed her to Ramsay, getting raped and abused becomes a logical result (filling Jeyne's role).

I also don't buy the "she's already gone through abuse so this serves no purpose" line people keep running out there. Because she's overcome the bad things in her past, her character is now free of the realities of being a woman in Westeros? And being raped somehow weakens her, or regresses her? I think that's a bit insulting to rape victims. She could endure this and come out stronger than ever.

I've got all sorts of problems with how this season is playing out, and this last episode was especially weak, but I didn't think this scene in particular was out of place, especially exploitative or inappropriate by the standards of the books/show. It's upsetting to see bad things happen to characters we care about, but that's the nature of this story.

 

[Blader]

That's the thing though

Spoiler

It's book loyalty that got us this scene in the first place. Automatically replacing Sansa with another character has made the creators have her raped, cause they're doing some stupid half adaptation thing. If they were doing they're own thing entirely (or I suppose following the books exactly) this wouldn't happen.

What wouldn't happen? People would be less outraged by another rape scene if it wasn't happening to Sansa? That's ridiculous.

 

[Platy]

The rape in this scene is depicted as something truly awful and the rapist as an utterly repugnant human being.

The rapist is not depicted as a hero and the rape is as gut-wrenching as a rape would be. I don't know what people want except for there not to be any rape depictions in media at all. And that would be unacceptable censorship.

Didn't needed to be shown, didn't needed to be with this character, didn't changed anything except screw Sansa's character development.

Even Reek saying "fuck this shit I am out of here" and killing bolton would have made it better, since he is not "as reek" as in the books =P

Or even sudden Brienne saving

 

[The Adder]

Speculation. We don't know what comes as a direct result of this yet.

It's not speculation. Read my fucking posts or don't bother trying to respond, thanks.

That Sansa was raped can advance the narrative. The scene in which Sansa is raped does nothing to advance the narrative. Maybe if they had put the focus on her then we'd have an idea of where she goes from here, thereby serving her character and advancing the narrative. But they didn't.

.

Already addressed previous post of mine, pretty easy to find.

 

[John Bender]

I really like Sansa (just like the entire Stark Family. Especially Arya).
Seeing her getting raped

Spoiler

by Ramsay

, even when

Spoiler

it isn't in the books

is terrible. Terrible for Sansa (story-wise), terrible fopr the character development and simply terrible for Game of Thrones.

Garbage idea. Now she is the ultimate punching bag forever.
Pure nonsense. Guys behind the TV show should get kicked in the balls.
"Hm, what can we do to shock the people again

Spoiler

even when it isn't in the books

? Yeah, let her get raped".
#smmfh

 

[half a moon]

They raped book Sansa

 

[ultron87]

How can you say it doesn't do anything for the story when it's literally the last thing that happens in the episode? You can't say what consequences Ramsay raping Sansa has for the story or not when there hasn't been a single frame of story to follow it yet.

I'm making assumptions based on the past. The scene itself didn't tell us anything new about the characters involved, and probably isn't going to set anyone on a different course. Sansa already knew she was in a real bad situation. And they certainly haven't treated rape as an act with consequences to a characters arc in the past. But who knows, maybe they'll surprise me.

 

[Broken Joystick]

Some more quotes from other publications to point out what the actual outrage is about here.

The show has creators. They make the choices.They chose to use rape as a plot device. Again. - Jill Pantozzi, The Mary Sue

It is possible to write fantasy without falling back on the harmful cliché that an old-timey setting offers a free pass to show women getting raped all the time. -Everdeen Mason, Refinery29

The issue with the show returning to rape as a trope is not simply because there have been thinkpieces speaking out against it, and is not solely driven by the rational concerns lying at the heart of those thinkpieces. It’s also that the show has lost my faith as a viewer that the writers know how to articulate the aftermath of this rape effectively… -Myles McNutt, AV Club

We already knew that Ramsay Bolton was a sadist and an abuser of women, we already knew that Theon Greyjoy was his tormented puppet. Showing Sansa’s dress ripped, showing her face shoved down into the bed, hearing her screams did nothing to reveal character, or advance the plot, or critique anything about Westerosi society or about our own conceptions of medieval society that hasn’t already been critiqued. - Steven Attewell, Salon

In general, I’m not a big fan of people getting raped in entertainment as a manipulative way of heightening the stakes, but I’m even less of a fan of people getting raped in entertainment when it accomplishes absolutely nothing. - Laura Hudson, Wired

What character development could be wrung from this tragedy that could not have been created without a violent rape? Why does Game of Thrones — and so much popular entertainment — revert to this horrific crime when they want their female characters to “grow”? - Michal Schick, Hypable

Was it really important to make that scene about Theon’s pain? If Game of Thrones was going to go there, shouldn’t they at least have had the courage to keep the camera on Turner’s face?…But the last thing we needed was to have a powerful young woman brought low in order for a male character to find redemption. No thank you. - Joanna Robinson, Vanity Fair

To show Sansa being raped as the kicker to an episode — and then to cut to Theon, as if it’s his view, his reaction, his internalizing of the moment that matters — just felt like more of the same old same old we’ve been getting since Ros died, since Tansy was hunted, since Cersei was raped. - Nina Shen Rastogi, Vulture

There are thousands of ways to make a character and a series compelling without having to humiliate and dehumanize her with sexual force. Come on, Game of Thrones, you should know better than that. - Rachel Semigran,http://www.bustle.com/articles/84194-game-of-thrones-creator-george-rr-martin-responds-to-sansas-rape-and-its-extremely-disappointing

Now with Sansa and Ramsay, Game of Thrones is seemingly confirming that it has no idea how to use rape as a storytelling device — crass as it may sound, fictional sexual violence can be extremely powerful if managed carefully (see: The Americans) — and rape is just about the worst storytelling device to deploy clumsily. - Jen Trolio, Vox

Welcome to cable drama, where a woman’s rape is an opportunity for a man’s character development….what really makes the wedding night rape of Sansa Stark notable is the fact that as brutal and honestly unnecessary as the moment is, the show doesn’t even have the courtesy of letting Sansa’s emotions about the event serve as the center of the moment…. This was a choice and the choice was to marry off a teenage girl, rape her, and not even have the dignity to care primarily about her feelings about her fate. - Libby Hill, Salon

The show pretty much added a new, and in my opinion, entirely unnecessary victimization to her story. More concerningly, after Jaime’s rape of Cersei last season, it’s yet another rape Benioff and Weiss decided to add to the show that was not in the text and at this point, we don’t need anymore. - Lauren Morgan, New York Daily News

There have been numerous plot points and characters from Martin’s novels that have been omitted from the series; I’d love to hear what the showrunners’ arguments are for not only keeping the brutal assault of a young woman, but changing the storyline so that it happened to a beloved character. I’ll be waiting for an explanation, but like Jaime Lannister’s guilt [over raping Cersei], I’m not expecting it to actually arrive. - Casey Cipriani, Indiewire

There were so many ways around this very horrible and very predictable outcome and D&D decided to use what would shock viewers the most. Maybe I’m naive and hope too much for the good things, but I’m also a fan of good writing and creative characters who grow. Sansa’s “wedding” involved neither.- Jen Stayrock, Workprint

Bad enough that the assault upon the Stark princess by ghastly Ramsay Bolton was explicitly presented as an exercise in voyeurism, with Theon Greyjoy forced to watch as Sansa was violently assailed. What made the scene worse, and perhaps unforgivable, was that the rape was in the context of Sansa displaying increased maturity and independence. - Ed Powers, Independent.ie

 

[Alienous]

I haven't watched an episode of the show, but in all the glimpses I have seen I'm surprised that this is the first depiction of non-consensual sex in Game of Thrones (or at least I assume it is, given the reaction).

 

[youbastards]

All of this keyboard outrage, and all I thought when watching the episode was that finally SOMETHING is happening this season.

 

[Neverfade]

It's not speculation. Read my fucking posts or don't bother trying to respond, thanks.

That Sansa was raped can advance the narrative. The scene in which Sansa is raped does nothing to advance the narrative. Maybe if they had put the focus on her then we'd have an idea of where she goes from here, thereby serving her character and advancing the narrative. But they didn't.

How would we know where she goes from here by seeing her sobbing as she's being raped? What the entire fuck?

 

[Nokagi]

Look at what an emotional response you're having to her character and the shit she goes through. That's the whole point. I don't think I need to tell you that this is building up to Sansa getting her revenge on multiple people, and that's how her character's shitty experiences will be resolved. It'll be very satisfying.

My emotional response is one of annoyance and boredom. Good job guys?

 

[triplestation]

i wanna see aquaman rape a dragon while joffrey watches

 

[MHWilliams]

It took almost no part of my life you're right but that was just me spending five minutes trying to explain to THOSE people that are clearly spending more than five minutes on this topic that it isn't necessary..

People still outraged a day after? Lol in my opinion that's absurd to waste that energy on a show

I'm not saying "hey you're wasting time on got instead of curing cancer?" I'm saying "really? It's that bothersome that it's STILL a topic of conversation in your head?"

It seems pointless, all this "outrage"

It just feels like a lot of wind is being blown around but there's no boats to catch the breeze

Other then they lady in Twitter everyone else mentioned is literally paid to think about and write about things.

It is about as pointless as these posts you and I are making. And yet we still make them. Hurm.

 

[kittoo]

This has already caused one of my friends who was a huge fan before this season to decide to drop the show entirely. Several other people I know seem to be considering it.

It isn't really just the use of rape (again) it's how carelessly it seems to have been inserted in this created storyline and into Sansa's character arc to create drama. As that Deadspin article put it "The problem isn’t that this episode included a rape, but that it did so in the service of bad storytelling. It told the audience nothing that wasn’t already known, and it didn’t advance any plot lines beyond where they already were." This is similar to last season where they had women being raped as background scenery to the evil Night's Watch guys (who we already knew we evil scum bags). Maybe they'll at least follow up on this one unlike last season's apparently unintentional rape scene between Jaime and Cersei.

Now this I agree with. My problem wasnt that it there was rape, but that it didnt advance the plot in anyway, didnt tell us anything new about any characters and was frankly, useless.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I can understand some of those arguments. If you want to be critical of the show and this scene from a creative stand point, I get that. Hell I might even agree. Parts of this show are definitely starting to show signs of falling off.

 

[Patriots7]

I'm not sure what the argument though. Are you saying that they didn't have to show this. Of course they didn't! They don't have to do anything. And what they should and shouldn't do is completely subjective

For me, I don't see these events as being lazy or merely for shock value. Sansas marriage history, winterfell, reeks previous character and knowledge of Sansa, the history of Ramsay.... All these make this story arch particularly significant. People may not like seeing rape on TV. But that doesn't mean the depiction of it has no significance

I also think it's the deviation from the book that adds to the shock it's receiving. The show has a tighter group of characters so things are changing to maintain similar events of the book, but using characters the viewer knows of.

I'm saying there are numerous things they could have done with Sansa. I wouldn't have minded if they deviated and given her an interesting story that took her to the North.

But it's absolutely sad that the producers found her book story boring and could not come up with anything better than to give her this storyline. Especially when as book readers, we've seen how much she has grown that's completely lost in the show.

 

[pswii60]

I mean, she agreed to marry the guy. What did she think was going to happen on a Westeros wedding night?

No means no, even in stupid fantasy land.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Now this I agree with. My problem wasnt that it there was rape, but that it didnt advance the plot in anyway, didnt tell us anything new about any characters and was frankly, useless.

Well to my knowledge Sansa has never been raped. I think it's silly to speculate that this will not drastically effect her character. Also, something has to snap Theon.

 

[Blader]

Now this I agree with. My problem wasnt that it there was rape, but that it didnt advance the plot in anyway, didnt tell us anything new about any characters and was frankly, useless.

It doesn't advance the plot in any way because it's the last thing that happens!

Shit, people. At least wait a week or two for the show to never bring up the rape again before criticizing it for not advancing the plot. There was literally no plot after the rape occurred to be advancing or stalling.

 

[Kinyou]

I haven't watched an episode of the show, but in all the glimpses I have seen I'm surprised that this is the first depiction of non-consensual sex in Game of Thrones (or at least I assume it is, given the reaction).

Nope, not at all. As a matter of fact something like this happens in the first few episodes of season 1

 

[-griffy-]

She had no choice. It was clear she had no choice. Come on. Littlefinger tells her of his plan to marry her off in the books. Not a day before she meets

Spoiler

Harry

She was not afforded that choice in the show. She was not afforded any choice in the show.

Look at her interaction with

Spoiler

Harry in TWOW

. Compare that to Ramsay and please tell me that they've shown a lick of progression for Sansa as compared to in the books.

DUDE you got some not very well marked spoilers for unreleased book content here.

 

[Future]

Now this I agree with. My problem wasnt that it there was rape, but that it didnt advance the plot in anyway, didnt tell us anything new about any characters and was frankly, useless.

Isn't it the aftermath that matters though. It depends on what happens afterwards.

I disagree that it didn't advance anything. What it showed is that this time Sansa would not escape, and that reek still had some emotions buried within. How that changes things.... Who knows. If it changes nothing then yes, the scene eventually would lead to nothing

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Some more quotes from other publications to point out what the actual outrage is about here.

All of these quotes... so much tea spilled. Yet most will ignore it "because it's supposed to be a dark fantasy!!!!!!111"

 

[Ovid]

If it didn't then you'd probably have to take nice hard look at yourself

It's a television show and Ramsey is dick. He's almost as bad as Joffrey.

Also, I'm not going to hate the show because of one scene. That's silly.

No pun intended? Sorry couldnt resist.

I actually forgot about the cersei and Jaime scene. It is a bit weird how rape scenes are being added to main female chraracters.

I only read Books 1 and 2.

Most of my GoT knowledge is from the show.

Bye folks.

 

[neogaffer1]

Haven't read any of the books, but I am not sold that being raped somehow means you're a pawn and that you can't become power hungry.

The way it's handled is that Sansa has gone through huge amounts of pain and torture in the hands of the Lannisters, and she is able to escape but ends up being stuck with Littlefinger, and at that point she decides that she no longer wants pain in her life, and then starts taking control of her life and strying to work against others. In a recently released chapter, we see even more of this as she starts to (spoilers that probably won't even apply to the show)

Spoiler

play coy and manipulate a certain Lord-to-be in order to get him interested in her so that she can use his popularity and placement in lineage as a way to gain the manpower to retake Winterfell.

Her transformation was shown in the show at the end of last season where she changed her outfit. In both this season and the book, she's still basically doing what Littlefinger tells her to do, but in the book

Spoiler

she wants what he's giving her, and the way to do that does not involve her suffering, something she wants to avoid at all costs after Joffrey.

In the show, she's doing things she doesn't want to do because Littlefinger tells her to do so, for reasons that aren't as well-justified as the ones in the book.

Sansa as a character has regressed in the show from the high point of the ending shot of last season as compared to her book counterpart who starts to get a handle on life and control her own destiny. This rape scene is just the most visible and obvious instance of this.

 

[The Adder]

How would we know where she goes from here by seeing her sobbing as she's being raped? What the entire fuck?

Given how the scene was written? We probably wouldn't, which is a great argument for not including the scene at all.

But COULD a competent writer craft a scene to do so? Absolutely. Shit, they did it in 300 and that movie didn't have geniuses writting it.

 

[Coolluck]

I swear I've seen this discussion before. A victim of one crime does not automatically make you a victim for life. That event happening was an eventuality of the shows plot and not some twist. It differs from the books? Fine. Part of why people say not to constantly compare the two.

As for the people who don't like the implications for the future. I don't know what to tell you. I don't really have anything to add to that discussion because the alternatives I heard just didn't sound realistic in this universe, but I'm always open to hearing better options.

 

[ultron87]

Well to my knowledge Sansa has never been raped. I think it's silly to speculate that this will not drastically effect her character. Also, something has to snap Theon.

We're somehow not enthusiastic about this after the other times they've used rape in the plot. See Cersei and Jaime last season or using it as background scenery to the Night Watch mutineers scenes.

 

[PeskyToaster]

No means no, even in stupid fantasy land.

It probably doesn't in stupid fantasy land though. It's probably not even rape in the rules of the show universe.